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Redbeard wrote:http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/360870.page

Awww.


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Melissia wrote:

pretre wrote:Also, I love the line that says 'Celestians can't compete with Paladins.' lol

The only units they can really compete with are stormtroopers and the like.

Ha! Good try. You almost had me there, but my faith is strong.

Deadshane1 wrote:Grenades are flat out a waste of points on sisters....at least they were.

Yeah, the only advantage I see Frags giving them now is that they at least can make a Str 4 attack vs. armored targets. It isn't much but at least it's something.

Melissia wrote:
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Ixquic wrote:On the other hand against anything with a 5+ save twin linked comes out far ahead.

... so? When did they EVER have problems killing enemies with 5+ saves anyway? Killing MEQ and tanks are what Sisters have problems with.

Statistically twin linked is only a little worse against MEQ and slightly better against Thunder Hammer terminators.

It's a bummer that we didn't get something that kills MEQ better but in terms of Dominions we didn't lose much. Other aspects of the new list are more annoying.

Panic wrote:yeah,

DarknessEternal wrote:There are 4 Sisters of Battle for every Marine.

Those Lucky Devils.

Panic...

That was supposed to say 4 SoBs for every 3 Marines. Which is an advantageous match up for the SoBs.

Redbeard wrote:http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/360870.page

In the picture of the imagifiers/banner bearers, what model is that with the flaming brazier on top o the banner? Is that a converted Celestine?

Is it possible someone decided auto-grenades were a good idea because the current models have them sculpted on?

(Now pricing for them is another topic. Sounds like 1 point may be too much, but 'free' is not right either.)

DarknessEternal wrote:That was supposed to say 4 SoBs for every 3 Marines. Which is an advantageous match up for the SoBs.

Not really. Weapons included, it's closer to 9 Marines for every 10 Sisters.

streamdragon wrote:

Redbeard wrote:http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/360870.page

In the picture of the imagifiers/banner bearers, what model is that with the flaming brazier on top o the banner? Is that a converted Celestine?

No, it's a converted exorcist organist, back from the days when you could bitz order such things.

I honestly don't think the grenades are really factoring into the pricing since now practically everything has them and Guardsmen didn't go up in price. Looking at previous examples of stupid 6++ saves or 6+ WBB and the absurd pricing of a power armored model in a Grey Knight Inquisitor squad those probably have more to do with the new 12 point price.

GW has a history of overvaluing stuff and don't realize how stuff really ends up working.

Ah, excellent. It's a fantastic model! The hair especially makes it stand out, since it's not the usual bob cut.

Redbeard wrote:

streamdragon wrote:

Redbeard wrote:http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/360870.page

In the picture of the imagifiers/banner bearers, what model is that with the flaming brazier on top o the banner? Is that a converted Celestine?

No, it's a converted exorcist organist, back from the days when you could bitz order such things.

I remember the very day they stopped the bitz ordering.

I was about to order another ~500 points of Sisters in fact, I wanted specific models (helmeted models) for them. And I could not anymore despite having been looking at them for a few days picking them out. I sent an email in confusion and they were like "we don't do that anymore".

Sooooo I went to eBay instead.

I tried to order the Maiden Guard three times before they finally just straight up told me that they wouldn't fill the order. Then a week later the bitz service was discontinued.

Luckily I was able to buy all the undead horse heads I needed a month prior. Really the end of bitz service was when I lost much of my interest in the company since the attitude of buying full $10+ blisters for one part was so over the top anti-customer I couldn't support them anymore.

Sisters were my first army, 8 years ago. To them' Ive added GK, 7 years ago. With the tremendously cool update that was Codex: Grey Knight, i just can say that this WD Codex: Sisters of Battle is less than "meh".

Even without new models, they could have added very nice things to the codex and still kept some "bang" for a future release.

Now, I feel as excited as I'd be by trading a '97 white Corolla for a '99 beige Corolla.

I'll be back in a year when then deal is getting closer (if it is, after Necrons, Tau, CSM, Black Templars, Dark Angels, 6th ed.....). Make that 2 years...

Phil

ps. Kudos to all those of you that manage keep excited!

Melissia wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:That was supposed to say 4 SoBs for every 3 Marines. Which is an advantageous match up for the SoBs.

Not really. Weapons included, it's closer to 9 Marines for every 10 Sisters.

Then complain about upgrade weapon pricing. But 12 point SoBs (which aren't 12 points) to 16 point Tac Marines is advantage SoB.

This definitely looks like a 'contractual obligation' list that fills a need, but in such a way that no one (probably not even the author) is truly satisfied. Points may trend high to account for limited playtesting (If it's overcosted, how can it be broken?) and there's no real room for the author to innovate or even replicate a lot of the old rules, so what's put in sounds every bland.

The part about them running themselves out of business.

More like suing themselves out of business.

Actually, the only real way to know something is to experience it first hand.

This one is so funny it made me laugh. Melissia is 100% right here dude.
<text redacted; remain polite and topical, please, while discussing this incredibly important topic --Janthkin>

For 2 pts more Sisters get a 6++, +1 I, +1 WS, +1 BS, +1 SV and +1 LD. They lose the Pulse rifle but gain grenades, pistol and an act of faith.

For 2 points

That is really irrelevant, on paper it sounds awesome yes but only with the whole codex picture can it be seen if they are overpriced or underpriced.

I can argue the same about SM and GK, the GK marine gets a power weapon, ability to instantkill stuff, almost assured S5, a stormbolter, almost assured ability to totally deny enemy deepstrike,l access to dirt cheap thunderhammers etc...all this for only 4 points more then a lukewarm SM marine.

You need context of the full codex if you want to make unit vs unit point comparisons.

Celtic I thought every sisters player had Melissia on ignore except for those of us who loved the drama she creates.

Nah, she´s cool and have good arguments, just a bit to hot headed and insulting but then again who am I to judge. lol

11 Firewarriors, 1 Shas'el (Rapid fire range)
Pts: 130
MEQ kills: 2.61
Kills per point spent: 0.0201

10 gray hunters, 2 flamers (Subjective, averaging 4 hits per)
Pts: 150
MEQ kills: 3.07
Kills per points spent: 0.0204

9 Sisters, Vet Sister, Flamer, H. Flamer (Subjective again I know)
Pts: 150
MEQ kills: 3.18
Kills per point spent: 0.0218

Do with that information what you will...........

Again, out of context.

1: How many points does it take to get these units into their optimal killing range? Last time I checked flame weapons are not effective without transports.
2: How many turns does it take said squa to get to killing? (the sister HF need time to get in range)
3: How many casualties will it take on average (see 1 and 2) before it can start killing, thus how many less minis in the squad on average will tehre be to do the killing, thus how much less effective is it then the on paper calculation?
4: How many other units need to babysit the squad and/or make sure it is unhindered to do it killing, is it more self reliant or is it more seamed into the army overal?
5: How likely is it that the squad is destroyed in return after having its´one turn of shooting kills? Those HF sisters can shoot once but the turn after the surviving genesteelers will make the squad a very ineffective killing machine indeed.

You see now why simple point comparisons cant be taken as the ultimate truth?

You clearly don't play basic marines if you think those frags are worth something. Yep, assaulting with 9 tacs. 18-9-4.5-1.5 So im paying 10 points so that I can kill another tac marine on the charge before they kill .75 of mine. So useful. I'd rather pay less and get to have two special weapons instead of having to pay for a heavy and special conjoined at the hip to make the worst squad possible.

The worth might be more from disallowing the opponent their charge bonus.



So, has anyone actually tried a game or two with the new SoB codex and can give some proper feedback?



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Any of 40k's armies can win games if they're played intelligently, but that doesn't mean that they're top-level tourney material. I haven't seen a Witch Hunters army place (1st through 3rd) in a major tournament any time recently.

I have, it won a 120 army tournament.

You're cheaper and I would rip off my own arm and hand it to you to have two special weapons. Especially if one was a heavy flamer, something I don't get at all.

You do but it takes up an elite slot and costs 35 points. It´s fething sad.

10 SoB + Combi Weapon, Heavy Flamer, Melta Gun in a Rhino = 195

Damn, that´s cheap, it´s like a tac with a free rhino.
More then offsets their lower statline.

-Canoness: get ready for a repeat of the Chaos Lord in that you get sweet jack-all in the way of options. You get weapons, a purchasable invul, and melta-bombs. Nothing else. Also, she is not the economic character she once was, nor is she the monster slayer capable of going toe-to-toe with other characters. An average build will see you just shy of 100.

Thank god we no longer get to see that pesky FNoD!

At least the codex has the ultimate paladin melee killers
...just...trying...to...find...silver...lining...

And you're only going to give it one shot with the new codex without any practice? Did you win an Ard boyz tourny on your first game? That's amazing.

No experience and winning a tourney? If he did he probably played dark eldar.

Serious: never compare costs with tactical marines, they are overcosted, every marine player know it, besides their good stats, units of them dont work well. Marine armies are meant to be played with Veterans/Termies/Devs and tacticals fulfilling troops...

Word.

Celtic Strike wrote:Work for both sides of chaos

Not a bad idea...

Oooh, I could even play my Slaaneshi Daemons against my Battle Sisters. Cause my mind would go to a very nice, if somewhat perverse, place while I game. ^_^

Kreedos wrote:

Pouncey wrote:

Nah, I like my Repentia too much.

I agree, they're pretty cool models, I have 20 of them myself that I'm planning on using with footslogging variants of the new sisters codex, which they're going to be able to do very efficiently. I did the math, and it looks like I can fit 111 Sisters on the board, with good upgrades and options with 6x sister squads 3x dominion 1x HQ /w command squad and 3x Retribitor Squads with Heavy Bolters

Nice! Looks like I'd better get my ass in gear and get myself more Sisters of Battle!

I did always like Retributors. One of my first 40k RPs, I played a Retributor Superior. ^_^

Word.

I just wish I didn't have to dump 5-700 points on tacs just to avoid getting massacred in any objective based game. It's a comparison that isn't friendly to tacs, but those are still the most common troop found in the game by a significant margin. Comparing SoBs to the most common other troop choice isn't a useless comparison, and highlights one of the strengths of the army.

See... I don't get why folks are so enthused to be running sisters mech (even in the WH dex)... I personally think Rhino's are deathtraps for Sisters... or anything with T3...

They're closed top, meaning they take a S4 hit when it explodes.... and does often... So I now take 10 S4 hits that wound on 3s. After 1-2 die, then I have to take a pinning test on a 8-9... and if I have 5-6 squads, I'm probably failing 1-2 of those... meaning my firing efficiency is hindered and I'm open to easy assault...

I'm a big fan of spaced blobs for sisters... going from rhinos to foot slogging upped my wins by a ton.

Revarien wrote:See... I don't get why folks are so enthused to be running sisters mech (even in the WH dex)... I personally think Rhino's are deathtraps for Sisters... or anything with T3...

They're closed top, meaning they take a S4 hit when it explodes.... and does often... So I now take 10 S4 hits that wound on 3s. After 1-2 die, then I have to take a pinning test on a 8-9... and if I have 5-6 squads, I'm probably failing 1-2 of those... meaning my firing efficiency is hindered and I'm open to easy assault...

I'm a big fan of spaced blobs for sisters... going from rhinos to foot slogging upped my wins by a ton.

The statistics really don't fall that way for vehicle death and pinning. They'll have to kill 3-4 transports to get one of them. That's really not much different then just killing 12 sisters with a full turns shooting. Walking is suicide against most armies.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Revarien wrote:See... I don't get why folks are so enthused to be running sisters mech (even in the WH dex)... I personally think Rhino's are deathtraps for Sisters... or anything with T3...

They're closed top, meaning they take a S4 hit when it explodes.... and does often... So I now take 10 S4 hits that wound on 3s. After 1-2 die, then I have to take a pinning test on a 8-9... and if I have 5-6 squads, I'm probably failing 1-2 of those... meaning my firing efficiency is hindered and I'm open to easy assault...

I'm a big fan of spaced blobs for sisters... going from rhinos to foot slogging upped my wins by a ton.

The statistics really don't fall that way for vehicle death and pinning. They'll have to kill 3-4 transports to get one of them. That's really not much different then just killing 12 sisters with a full turns shooting. Walking is suicide against most armies.

Sorry, i have to disagree... I've owned the hell outa guard leafblower at a tourny... but of course that was when I had 3++... maybe now it will be more suicidal.

Revarien wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Revarien wrote:See... I don't get why folks are so enthused to be running sisters mech (even in the WH dex)... I personally think Rhino's are deathtraps for Sisters... or anything with T3...

They're closed top, meaning they take a S4 hit when it explodes.... and does often... So I now take 10 S4 hits that wound on 3s. After 1-2 die, then I have to take a pinning test on a 8-9... and if I have 5-6 squads, I'm probably failing 1-2 of those... meaning my firing efficiency is hindered and I'm open to easy assault...

I'm a big fan of spaced blobs for sisters... going from rhinos to foot slogging upped my wins by a ton.

The statistics really don't fall that way for vehicle death and pinning. They'll have to kill 3-4 transports to get one of them. That's really not much different then just killing 12 sisters with a full turns shooting. Walking is suicide against most armies.

Sorry, i have to disagree... I've owned the hell outa guard leafblower at a tourny... but of course that was when I had 3++... maybe now it will be more suicidal.

As someone with two mech IG armies, I can guarantee you if given the choice I'd rather face footslogging sisters than mech sisters every time. Explosions happen 1/6 penetrating hits. Pinning tests on Ld9 are no worse than for Space Marines or Eldar. That box means i've got to waste firepower on it before I can shoot the sisters and also provides an element of LoS denial as well (kill the transport, disembark sisters behind transport, now I can shoot at them anymore). It also means those sisters get to user their melta and flamers weapons a full turn earlier typcially than they would otherwise if they were footslogging. So for the few occaisions where you get an explosion and lose maybe 1-2 girls, you're saving yourself from lots more firepower beind tossed at them.

Revarien wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Revarien wrote:See... I don't get why folks are so enthused to be running sisters mech (even in the WH dex)... I personally think Rhino's are deathtraps for Sisters... or anything with T3...

They're closed top, meaning they take a S4 hit when it explodes.... and does often... So I now take 10 S4 hits that wound on 3s. After 1-2 die, then I have to take a pinning test on a 8-9... and if I have 5-6 squads, I'm probably failing 1-2 of those... meaning my firing efficiency is hindered and I'm open to easy assault...

I'm a big fan of spaced blobs for sisters... going from rhinos to foot slogging upped my wins by a ton.

The statistics really don't fall that way for vehicle death and pinning. They'll have to kill 3-4 transports to get one of them. That's really not much different then just killing 12 sisters with a full turns shooting. Walking is suicide against most armies.

Sorry, i have to disagree... I've owned the hell outa guard leafblower at a tourny... but of course that was when I had 3++... maybe now it will be more suicidal.

Or the leafblower player was terrible. How a footslogging sister squad would make it that far is beyond me. He's getting 3 turns of almost uninterrupted shooting.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Revarien wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Revarien wrote:See... I don't get why folks are so enthused to be running sisters mech (even in the WH dex)... I personally think Rhino's are deathtraps for Sisters... or anything with T3...

They're closed top, meaning they take a S4 hit when it explodes.... and does often... So I now take 10 S4 hits that wound on 3s. After 1-2 die, then I have to take a pinning test on a 8-9... and if I have 5-6 squads, I'm probably failing 1-2 of those... meaning my firing efficiency is hindered and I'm open to easy assault...

I'm a big fan of spaced blobs for sisters... going from rhinos to foot slogging upped my wins by a ton.

The statistics really don't fall that way for vehicle death and pinning. They'll have to kill 3-4 transports to get one of them. That's really not much different then just killing 12 sisters with a full turns shooting. Walking is suicide against most armies.

Sorry, i have to disagree... I've owned the hell outa guard leafblower at a tourny... but of course that was when I had 3++... maybe now it will be more suicidal.

Or the leafblower player was terrible. How a footslogging sister squad would make it that far is beyond me. He's getting 3 turns of almost uninterrupted shooting.

Not totally uninterrupted: Exorcists destroyed anything I pointed them at, my Seraphim made quick work of his vendettas, and my Callidus assassin was was causing havoc in his backfield Manticores.

Also, no, he didn't 'suck'... I understand why you can't/won't/don't believe me... this is the internet after all, but I went in with a plan and he went in with a smug: "Oh I have a leafblower list and all you have is people on foot, how cute" attitude... I had the game in the bag on turn 4.

Revarien wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Revarien wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Revarien wrote:See... I don't get why folks are so enthused to be running sisters mech (even in the WH dex)... I personally think Rhino's are deathtraps for Sisters... or anything with T3...

They're closed top, meaning they take a S4 hit when it explodes.... and does often... So I now take 10 S4 hits that wound on 3s. After 1-2 die, then I have to take a pinning test on a 8-9... and if I have 5-6 squads, I'm probably failing 1-2 of those... meaning my firing efficiency is hindered and I'm open to easy assault...

I'm a big fan of spaced blobs for sisters... going from rhinos to foot slogging upped my wins by a ton.

The statistics really don't fall that way for vehicle death and pinning. They'll have to kill 3-4 transports to get one of them. That's really not much different then just killing 12 sisters with a full turns shooting. Walking is suicide against most armies.

Sorry, i have to disagree... I've owned the hell outa guard leafblower at a tourny... but of course that was when I had 3++... maybe now it will be more suicidal.

Or the leafblower player was terrible. How a footslogging sister squad would make it that far is beyond me. He's getting 3 turns of almost uninterrupted shooting.

Not totally uninterrupted: Exorcists destroyed anything I pointed them at, my Seraphim made quick work of his vendettas, and my Callidus assassin was was causing havoc in his backfield Manticores.

Also, no, he didn't 'suck'... I understand why you can't/won't/don't believe me... this is the internet after all, but I went in with a plan and he went in with a smug: "Oh I have a leafblower list and all you have is people on foot, how cute" attitude... I had the game in the bag on turn 4.

Is it a foot list when the damage is coming from tanks and jump packs?

ShumaGorath wrote:Is it a foot list when the damage is coming from tanks and jump packs?

When I have 80 troops on the ground, yes.

Not really sure why people need to playtest it. It's just a normalized, Dark Angelfied witchhunters codex. It's almost exactly the same SoB codex except the special rules and equipment went out the window.

Exorcists? Immolators? Rhinos? Pretty much the same except the flamer immolator is worse.

It's not like their stat line changed.

All it is is the same codex with the best parts of witchhunters gone. No blessed weapon, no 2++ saves, no eviscerators in any basic sister unit, no fast flaming immolators.

Can you win with it? Yeah you can...immo spam is still alive. Other than that? They do mech worse than everyother army and they do foot worse than every other army.

I like how when any other Codex comes out, people are all like, "OMG THIS IS SO OP NERFBAT PLZ K THANX!!!" But when it's Sisters of Battle, it's more like, "WAAAAAH! Our army sucks now!!!!"

Is this normal for Sisters of Battle players? To whine about nerfs like it's the end of the world, whenever we get an update that doesn't make us super awesome?

Well... OP or underpowered aside. I find this codex to lack some flavor.
But, right. I will do with it until a real codex ; trying some lists.

Anyway I don't think I will buy more sisters for now. So good for my DKoK xD

Pouncey wrote:I like how when any other Codex comes out, people are all like, "OMG THIS IS SO OP NERFBAT PLZ K THANX!!!" But when it's Sisters of Battle, it's more like, "WAAAAAH! Our army sucks now!!!!"

Is this normal for Sisters of Battle players? To whine about nerfs like it's the end of the world, whenever we get an update that doesn't make us super awesome?

I don't know it's been 10 years since the last book you tell me what people on the internet were bitching about then.