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scuddman wrote:
Exorcists? Immolators? Rhinos? Pretty much the same except the flamer immolator is worse.

It's not like their stat line changed.

Not quite, all of the vehicles now have a 6+ inv save. The rhino also has a 6+ immobilized fix in the shooting phase and it looks like free smoke launchers too.

They are about the only thing that has got better IMO.

Ixquic wrote:I don't know it's been 10 years since the last book you tell me what people on the internet were bitching about then.

OMG Aaliyah died!!!

Too soon?


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Edit: Did a newsgroup search for 2003-2005. Some good stuff. (C: WH came out in 2004.)

Pretty hilarious. Plus ca change, plus ca meme chose.

Pouncey wrote:I like how when any other Codex comes out, people are all like, "OMG THIS IS SO OP NERFBAT PLZ K THANX!!!" But when it's Sisters of Battle, it's more like, "WAAAAAH! Our army sucks now!!!!"

Is this normal for Sisters of Battle players? To whine about nerfs like it's the end of the world, whenever we get an update that doesn't make us super awesome?

Just sayin, but when the Nid book came out there was a lot more SoB type crying than, say, GK type crying.

Also if you really are trying to compare this ... thing to something like the BA, DE or GK books I really don't know what to say.

Ixquic wrote:

Pouncey wrote:I like how when any other Codex comes out, people are all like, "OMG THIS IS SO OP NERFBAT PLZ K THANX!!!" But when it's Sisters of Battle, it's more like, "WAAAAAH! Our army sucks now!!!!"

Is this normal for Sisters of Battle players? To whine about nerfs like it's the end of the world, whenever we get an update that doesn't make us super awesome?

I don't know it's been 10 years since the last book you tell me what people on the internet were bitching about then.

Mmm, ten years ago I didn't even know what WH40k was. ^_^

I do hope though that it's not another 10 years before we get another update.

Mostly I'm glad to get an update, even though I've been playing Sisters for just a few years now. Cause I like new stuff. ^_^


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streamdragon wrote:

Pouncey wrote:I like how when any other Codex comes out, people are all like, "OMG THIS IS SO OP NERFBAT PLZ K THANX!!!" But when it's Sisters of Battle, it's more like, "WAAAAAH! Our army sucks now!!!!"

Is this normal for Sisters of Battle players? To whine about nerfs like it's the end of the world, whenever we get an update that doesn't make us super awesome?

Just sayin, but when the Nid book came out there was a lot more SoB type crying than, say, GK type crying.

Also if you really are trying to compare this ... thing to something like the BA, DE or GK books I really don't know what to say.

Mmm, granted on the Nid book, though I have some memories of people complaining about Doom. There was even a few videos about it, but I don't think I was back from my hiatus from WH40k at that point.

Oh, I know it's not the same. I was rather disappointed that the first part, containing all the background supposedly, was what? Ten, fifteen pages long? Still, in my mind, it's new stuff! NEW STUFFLES! : D YAAAAAY!!!

DarknessEternal wrote:That was supposed to say 4 SoBs for every 3 Marines. Which is an advantageous match up for the SoBs.

But 12 point SoBs (which aren't 12 points) to 16 point Tac Marines is advantage SoB.

Right up until you get charged by those Marines because you can't hurt them at ranges greater than 12". Remember, somebody said we are paying 20 points for heavy flamers. That's going to make us BLEED in every unit.

Revarien wrote:See... I don't get why folks are so enthused to be running sisters mech (even in the WH dex)... I personally think Rhino's are deathtraps for Sisters... or anything with T3...

They're closed top, meaning they take a S4 hit when it explodes.... and does often... So I now take 10 S4 hits that wound on 3s. After 1-2 die, then I have to take a pinning test on a 8-9... and if I have 5-6 squads, I'm probably failing 1-2 of those... meaning my firing efficiency is hindered and I'm open to easy assault...

I'm a big fan of spaced blobs for sisters... going from rhinos to foot slogging upped my wins by a ton.

See above. Sisters are mech because they can't shoot at ranges greater than 12". Which means you take 2-3 turns of pounding from real shooty armies trying to close the range if you are foot, and have fast movers blow straight past your 12" engagement range to melee. Where you promptly die, regardless of how many T3 3+ models you happen to have. If you are mech, you have 1-2 turns of pounding from real shooty armies and have a ablative metal box protecting you for a little while from shooting and those nasty, nasty melee units.

I truly do not understand how you can beat *anything* not named Necron in either objective mission with foot sisters.

Strong points:
Dominions. 5 dominions in an MM immolator can be dangerous. Too bad their AoF totally ignores flamers, but whatever.
Celestine! Just too cheap. Wait for a FAQ that says 'Oops, we misprinted a 1 when we meant a 9".
...

Potential Strong Points:
100 for 4 HBs with 2 bullet catchers isn't bad. I don't know if it will be better than Exorcists, but with scouting Immolators it may be workable.
Seraphim at 15 could be good. 10 models do 12 hits with boltguns, or 9 wounds and 3 casualties. So 10 could be a lethal threat to a 5 man marine squad, or 20 for a 10 man. I don't know if the weapon upgrades are worth it, considering the ruinous price. Yeah, 30 for two inferno pistol shots is good, but it is worth 2 more Seraphim? A lot of their combat ability came from mass numbers of S5 or I6 attacks, plus 3++.
Death Cult are really good, and while we can't buff them like GK or give them a Land Raider like GK, a Rhino full of them with a Preacher could be good.
Celestians + Uriah + Cannoness. 4 attacks at S4 I4 preferred enemy? Now if only a sane man had designed Celestian options, and too bad Prefered Enemy and Righteous Rage don't stack.
Command Squad in a Rhino with 2 Multimeltas.
Maybe Repentia? Putting them in a Rhino means they aren't totally useless, but they suffer the same problem as any melee unit in a non-assault transport.

Nerfs:
Faith and SoB squads. The reason they needed a price cut was because what made them strong, Faith, was getting mangled. This is a NET LOSS, and I suspect there will be no price difference given rumors of 20 point heavy flamers.
PE's. Slower. Expensive. Too expensive for something that will likely never reach combat.
Celestians without IC stacking. A2, yet no melee options. WTF? Why would I ever, EVER field this over a troops unit unless I'm desperate for more Immolator spam? Speaking of which, do Rets get dedicated transports now?
No Torch. I wasn't expecting the Book to stay, regardless of how important it was, but no Torch?

Laugh, then Cry:
Condemner Boltgun.
Immolator costs v Razorbacks. Especially BA Razorbacks.

Pretty hilarious. Plus ca change, plus ca meme chose.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

carmachu wrote: It was awesome when 2 guardsmen killed 2 terminators in close combat. Its funny, but if I'm playing for the awesome random moments then I'm playing for the wrong reason. I like being able to predict what should happen statisically in the game.

So, you're not playing for the fun then? Its a game remember?
We play a dice game that's lost a lot of its flair over the years. If you're not playing for the crazy part then I think YOU'RE playing for the wrong reasons.

The Grog wrote:
I truly do not understand how you can beat *anything* not named Necron in either objective mission with foot sisters.

I've done it before, and against Space Marines too. No vehicles in either army. By the end, I had Celestine, a unit of 10 Battle Sisters parked on one objective, and a unit of 2 Battle Sisters parked on another. That was the remains of my army. My opponent had a 10-man scout sniper squad on a hill, a single Tactical Marine on an objective in cover, and an 8-man Honor Guard unit backed up by a Chapter Master that had waded through my army, butchering my units in close combat.

Neither army was optimized for competitive play, but it proves it was possible to Sisters footsloggers to win objectives-based games.

Every thing is possible.
Sometimes ago I killed 3 TH/SS Terminators with 3 laspistol of my DKoK platoon command squad. Strangely enough, my 2 melta in the same squad did nothing (only pointing the funny situation we face, sometimes !)

DarknessEternal wrote:Then complain about upgrade weapon pricing. But 12 point SoBs (which aren't 12 points) to 16 point Tac Marines is advantage SoB.

Yes they are. 125 points for 9+superior, then 12 points more for each Ssiter after that.

Yes, 12 points.

The Grog wrote:Dominions. 5 dominions in an MM immolator can be dangerous. Too bad their AoF totally ignores flamers, but whatever.

You know twin-linked means you re-roll wounds/ armor pen on flamers, right?

The Grog wrote:
Immolator costs v Razorbacks. Especially BA Razorbacks.

This is the most WTF change for me. Most of the other stuff is subjective but now the Immolator is a Razorback in everything but name and they think that a heavy bolter with rerollable wounds (thus max 3 wounds a turn) and a 6++ save is better than fast and a heavy flamer. It's unbelievable that they couldn't have at least given the thing an intelligent points value and really speaks for how much thought and effort went into writting this codex.

So apparently only two special weapons in five member dominions, but despite this, Cruddace put four flamers on his dominion squad in the WD batrep?

Grenat wrote:Every thing is possible.
Sometimes ago I killed 3 TH/SS Terminators with 3 laspistol of my DKoK platoon command squad. Strangely enough, my 2 melta in the same squad did nothing (only pointing the funny situation we face, sometimes !)

True, but it's not like it was a one-time event, and there didn't seem to be constant strings of very good luck on my part.

I should also mention that I ended that 7-turn game with at least 7-8 faith points unused.

Grenat wrote:

Pretty hilarious. Plus ca change, plus ca meme chose.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

Correcting grammar on the internet? Yep.
Correcting my grammar for a quote in a foreign language? Daaamn, got some free time on your hands?

You wouldn't expect a Frenchman/woman to correct your bad French?

boreas wrote: Now, I feel as excited as I'd be by trading a '97 white Corolla for a '99 beige Corolla.

Hey that's two years newer. The bluebook has to be slightly higher for that one. If you can get a trade for that you're making a profit!

My opinion is, Rets, Doms and Seraph, got cheaper - a lot cheaper in some respects - those were the core of my army to being with. I don't think that's going to change.

Sisters are meant to hold the line while other squads go out and do the killing. They may not be the best at it but there's still plenty of killing left in this army list.

That being said, looking at it now you're right - it has lost a lot of its flavour and charm and become a bit blander.

pretre wrote:

Grenat wrote:

Pretty hilarious. Plus ca change, plus ca meme chose.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

Correcting grammar on the internet? Yep.
Correcting my grammar for a quote in a foreign language? Daaamn, got some free time on your hands?

You know, some people actually speak "foreign" languages with great fluency. ^_^

Back on topic, I think I'll be getting September's WD when it goes on sale in-store, even though I have a subscription. Ten bucks for an extra couple of weeks of playtime with the new SoB codex? That's a trade I'd make. ^_^

Melissia wrote:You wouldn't expect a Frenchman/woman to correct your bad French?

Touché

Melissia wrote:You wouldn't expect a Frenchman/woman to correct your bad French?

Oh you.

Good try again, still not biting.


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Pouncey wrote:
You know, some people actually speak "foreign" languages with great fluency. ^_^

Psst. I was kinda joking.

Aaaannnnyways. Still waiting for Saturday.

pretre wrote:

Grenat wrote:

Pretty hilarious. Plus ca change, plus ca meme chose.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

Correcting grammar on the internet? Yep.
Correcting my grammar for a quote in a foreign language? Daaamn, got some free time on your hands?

Yeah, that's my language, nothing more ^^

I think you will have much more work correcting my poor english !

The Grog wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:That was supposed to say 4 SoBs for every 3 Marines. Which is an advantageous match up for the SoBs.

But 12 point SoBs (which aren't 12 points) to 16 point Tac Marines is advantage SoB.

Right up until you get charged by those Marines because you can't hurt them at ranges greater than 12". Remember, somebody said we are paying 20 points for heavy flamers. That's going to make us BLEED in every unit.

Bolters and Stormbolters still go 24" Were you really taking Heavy Flamers before? Why would you now?

And for whoever lied about only Rhinos getting better; Seraphim are vastly improved. 68% the cost and twice the offense.

DarknessEternal wrote:
Bolters and Stormbolters still go 24" Were you really taking Heavy Flamers before? Why would you now?

Yes in every BSS that I had...who wasn't taking them?

DarknessEternal wrote:68% the cost and twice the offense.

This is a really deceptive statistic.

pretre wrote:

The Grog wrote:Dominions. 5 dominions in an MM immolator can be dangerous. Too bad their AoF totally ignores flamers, but whatever.

You know twin-linked means you re-roll wounds/ armor pen on flamers, right?

Huh, I thought I had read that their Act was 'reroll hits' not 'weapons are twin-linked' back when I was reading the scans. Thanks for pointing that out.

White Dwarf in at my local shop... I'll snag it soon and help clear up anything that isn't already.... though most everything seems fairly clear.

Do, please. Sounds like my Sisters are about to become Guardsmen.

DarknessEternal wrote:
Bolters and Stormbolters still go 24" Were you really taking Heavy Flamers before? Why would you now?

I took heavy flamer and melta in every unit, why would I NOT take heavy flamers?

Almost every player took a melta and a heavy flamer in every squad...

Why is that up for debate, again?


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DarknessEternal wrote:And for whoever lied about only Rhinos getting better; Seraphim are vastly improved. 68% the cost and twice the offense.

And -1 initiative, no rending, and no invulnerable saves. You can't compare the models like that. The army relied on more than just a good stat line.

grizgrin wrote:Do, please. Sounds like my Sisters are about to become Guardsmen.

You waited this long?

grizgrin wrote:Do, please. Sounds like my Sisters are about to become Guardsmen.

If only. A squad of Guardsmen in a Chimera runs 105 points.