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iproxtaco wrote:I know where this is going.

Where?

Because I don't.

Right here.

Void__Dragon wrote:

CpatTom wrote:I imagined that more, Christian Bale. For some reason.

Edit for clarification: American Psycho

Are you suggesting that myself is fabricated, an aberration? That I am a noncontingent human being?

Im suggesting that you are (Pause for dramatic effect, or is it affect, damn you grammar. Cool: http://www.affectvseffect.org/. Pause for effect) Violet.

edit for url clicky-ness

What is it with you and colors!?

iproxtaco wrote:Right here.

Ah, I see. Indeed.

As this thread has become as much about Mathew Ward's writing ability (or lack there of) as much as about Draigo, I'll post my thoughts here about Mr. Ward. And also look for cake, which I have heard tell can be had around these parts.

Matt Ward is a bad writer. Not horrible to the point you wonder if english was a third language bad, just regular bad. He has some good ideas, but his execution is horrendous. I agree the idea for Draigo was most likely to be a tragic hero that has all his good deeds nullified by the shear futility that is resisting chaos. However, the execution came across much more like "lolz, this guy is awezom cheek it out. He donkey punches a demon primarch, then has his way with him". Yes, Mortarion had just gotten done beating on the old chapter master, and I could maybe accept Draigo eeking out a victory and coming away scarred. But the carving his predecessor's name in his heart thing made the story less epic, not more.

Gk's are incorruptible scions of the emperor who are specialized to fight demons. Got it, no problems there. Purifiers are even moreer incorruptibleer.... what? The list of badly executed ideas could go on, but I think it's been beaten to death already.

Will complaining about Ward's writing change anything? No. GW will have Ward write codexes till he decides he doesn't want to anymore. Why? Cause every codex he writes we complain about how badly he butchered the fluff, question whether he knows any background about 40k at all..... then go out and buy the army. Because Ward's codex's are fun and powerful to play (fun part is subjective). As long as every codex Ward writes becomes FotM, GW will let him write. Compare that to Cruddace's codexes. No one but die hard Sisters fans got excited and went out to buy new Sisters models now that the new codex is out. Is it wicked OP and rollface easy? No, but there are people who love sisters and are trying to make it work (bless them). Necrons? GW's about to sell a whole load of Necrons, and to people who despise the idea of the race (assuming Ward wrote the new dex, which I'm pretty sure he did).

To make it personal: Do I want Mat Ward to write the Eldar codex's fluff when it's time comes? No. Never, ever ever no. Do I want him to write the rules? Heck yea. Give me back my 3rd ed. Starcannons and thank you.

I'm fine with Ward writing rules, I just pray GW eventually tells him not to worry with all those word thingies that go in between the numbers he writes, and lets someone else do the fluff.

iproxtaco wrote:
Yes. He has no food, yet survives? So he needs no energy then? And also water. And also he's running around in the Realm of Chaos, even the regular old Warp flays someone's soul from said persons body upon contact with its tides, and that's even without random encounters with Greater Daemons.

Maybe he is eating Daemon souls


Automatically Appended Next Post:

iproxtaco wrote:
Oh, we will, since we have cake, and you do not, and will eat our cake thinking about how you do not have cake, and that will make us cake-laugh because we shall be eating cake.

Portal meme?
Nice

CpatTom wrote:

Void__Dragon wrote:NO, I will NEVER chill, not for you... NOT FOR ANYONE!

I imagined that more, Christian Bale. For some reason.

Edit for clarification: American Psycho

Has DraigoRage Syndrome been at the root of any family domestics recently Void?

bombboy1252 wrote:Fine, I wont post anymore, just so I can watch you guys B*tch and moan aimlessly about how bad Draigo is...hope you have fun and remember, haters gonna hate

FINALLY. It took you and Radiation getting their face burned off to get you to concede defeat. And here I was trying to be all polite and logical. Won't make that mistake again.

Omegus wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:Fine, I wont post anymore, just so I can watch you guys B*tch and moan aimlessly about how bad Draigo is...hope you have fun and remember, haters gonna hate

FINALLY. It took you and Radiation getting their face burned off to get you to concede defeat. And here I was trying to be all polite and logical. Won't make that mistake again.

Heresy is not fought with logic. Heresy is fought with fire.

Fire is not always a good thing.

Dash2021 wrote:Will complaining about Ward's writing change anything? No. GW will have Ward write codexes till he decides he doesn't want to anymore. Why? Cause every codex he writes we complain about how badly he butchered the fluff, question whether he knows any background about 40k at all..... then go out and buy the army. Because Ward's codex's are fun and powerful to play (fun part is subjective).

Well, for what it's worth, GW hasn't gotten a penny of my money in years, and I don't intend that to change any time soon. Frankly, 40K hasn't been interesting to me for some time now, there are far better games out there. I still keep coming back to the background though, I suppose for nostalgia's sake more than anything else. So while Ward's crunch is indeed crunchilicious (he writes superhero rules, and that's what's fun to see on the tabletop), all I see is the awful fluff. I am kind of hopeful he will write the Chaos codex. I mean, their fluff has been stupid and juvenile for years anyway, so they can't get that much worse. And if the game-breaking Daemon army book is any indication, they will be so powerful, it will likewise annihilate what thin semblance of balance 40K has. And when asked why he wrote Chaos to be so overpowered and broken, he'll respond with his classic line of, "It'd be a shame if it wasn't."

I will find that man and cut his hands off before I let him anywhere near my Chaos Legions codex.

Speaking of Legions, it seems the Iron Warriors have taken over Dakkadakka.

And to keep this thread from being locked for off-topicness, Draigo is bad, m'kay?

It will be interesting to see if the New Tomb K...rons will get all super duper band wagon/supposedly abusive super powers.

You shut your mouth when you are talking bout some Draigo. Draigo's awesomes.

iproxtaco wrote:I will find that man and cut his hands off before I let him anywhere near my Chaos Legions codex.

Ward said he "wasn't the guy to talk to," about the Chaos codex at Games Day, so rest easy. It seems likely it's Kelly, which means new Black Templars and new Chaos Marines should be a fething epic match-up.

Oh joyous day. At least Kelly can write good rules with good fluff when given the correct context ie, the Dark Eldar.

Except he also wrote Space Wolves, which granted has pretty wicked rules, but also stupid stuff like wolf-riding Space Wolves and slowed naming conventions.

So fully expect to see Chaos Lord Chaosington wielding the Chaos Sword of Chaos and riding his Chaotic Chaos Steedchaos.

Omegus wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:Fine, I wont post anymore, just so I can watch you guys B*tch and moan aimlessly about how bad Draigo is...hope you have fun and remember, haters gonna hate

FINALLY. It took you and Radiation getting their face burned off to get you to concede defeat. And here I was trying to be all polite and logical. Won't make that mistake again.

Get real. Your little nerdgang can blowdry my hair with all the heat of your wits combined. You don't like Draigo because he kills lots of stuff, won't take a bath, and doesn't eat cheeseburgers and pizza. You can't stay on topic because your argument is stupid so you flame and troll instead. Your like three little dogs humping each other. Every once in a while you stop to bite at the ankles of a passerby. You have every right to enjoy your internet dogcakes. Yum.

Omegus wrote:Except he also wrote Space Wolves, which granted has pretty wicked rules, but also stupid stuff like wolf-riding Space Wolves and slowed naming conventions.

So fully expect to see Chaos Lord Chaosington wielding the Chaos Sword of Chaos and riding his Chaotic Chaos Steedchaos.

That's what I mean, when given the correct context he's the undisputed king of the codices. The Dark Eldar was a major success on all fronts, whilst the Space Wolves are seen as a failure. Frankly, the Space Wolves were far too simplistic and childish to actually add any complexity to.

Radiation wrote:

Omegus wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:Fine, I wont post anymore, just so I can watch you guys B*tch and moan aimlessly about how bad Draigo is...hope you have fun and remember, haters gonna hate

FINALLY. It took you and Radiation getting their face burned off to get you to concede defeat. And here I was trying to be all polite and logical. Won't make that mistake again.

Get real. Your little nerdgang can blowdry my hair with all the heat of your wits combined. You don't like Draigo because he kills lots of stuff, won't take a bath, and doesn't eat cheeseburgers and pizza. You can't stay on topic because your argument is stupid so you flame and troll instead. Your like three little dogs humping each other. Every once in a while you stop to bite at the ankles of a passerby. You have every right to enjoy your internet dogcakes. Yum.

Woot Woot Woot! Go Radiation!!!! I give you an exalt good sir

Radiation wrote:

Omegus wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:Fine, I wont post anymore, just so I can watch you guys B*tch and moan aimlessly about how bad Draigo is...hope you have fun and remember, haters gonna hate

FINALLY. It took you and Radiation getting their face burned off to get you to concede defeat. And here I was trying to be all polite and logical. Won't make that mistake again.

Get real. Your little nerdgang can blowdry my hair with all the heat of your wits combined. You don't like Draigo because he kills lots of stuff, won't take a bath, and doesn't eat cheeseburgers and pizza. You can't stay on topic because your argument is stupid so you flame and troll instead. Your like three little dogs humping each other. Every once in a while you stop to bite at the ankles of a passerby. You have every right to enjoy your internet dogcakes. Yum.

That's the bit I found most ludicrous in all of that veritable hedge of stinging metaphors. Draigo accomplishes little whilst in the Warp, it precludes him being literally in the Warp, fighitng Daemons, in the Warp. He solved Tzeentch's labyrinth, burned down Nurgle's garden, has fought and bannished M'kar countless times, and managed to beat a Bloodthirster to death with only his hands and then forge a new sword from its Daemonic axe, and destroyed the fortress of a Lord of Change, and killed it. Oh, and he's done all of this heaps of times, because the Chaos Gods cannot kill him.

Dash2021 brought up an important part in that we're no longer really discussing Draigo but rather Ward's writing ability, that I think is slightly necessary to reply to.

A Codex is not written by a single person. It's helmed by a single person, but there is a team effort going on. The rules and fluff are not all the work of one lone person, chained to a desk working until his guttering candle goes out and his masterpiece is finished.

I will also agree with his assertion that Ward is just a "regular bad writer". Someone earlier made a mention of "People are so deluded that sometimes they'll even say that Ward is like Shakespeare". I can comfortably say that no one is under that assumption, but when people lump Ward in with Goto--it makes me wonder if people have actually read any of Goto's stuff.
Ward is positively Shakespearean compared to the tripe that Goto wrote.

Is Ward a great writer? No. He's nowhere near the likes of Dan Abnett or Aaron Dembski-Bowden or Gav Thorpe. He's more of an Andy Hoare. Andy Hoare can come up with great concepts...but he does not do so well with the details.

I think that's something we can all agree on....... Hopefully.

Kanluwen wrote:Is Ward a great writer? No. He's nowhere near the likes of Dan Abnett or Aaron Dembski-Bowden or Gav Thorpe. He's more of an Andy Hoare. Andy Hoare can come up with great concepts...but he does not do so well with the details.

I can agree with this.

I doubt any codex writer will be as good as them, especially Aaron Dembski...but that's a bit biased because he has the same first name as me

Radiation wrote:
Get real. Your little nerdgang can blowdry my hair with all the heat of your wits combined. You don't like Draigo because he kills lots of stuff, won't take a bath, and doesn't eat cheeseburgers and pizza. You can't stay on topic because your argument is stupid so you flame and troll instead. Your like three little dogs humping each other. Every once in a while you stop to bite at the ankles of a passerby. You have every right to enjoy your internet dogcakes. Yum.

If that's the best troll you can come up with, that's very sad indeed. But really, it's your parents I feel most sorry for, they must be so disappointed. :(

Omegus wrote:

Radiation wrote:
Get real. Your little nerdgang can blowdry my hair with all the heat of your wits combined. You don't like Draigo because he kills lots of stuff, won't take a bath, and doesn't eat cheeseburgers and pizza. You can't stay on topic because your argument is stupid so you flame and troll instead. Your like three little dogs humping each other. Every once in a while you stop to bite at the ankles of a passerby. You have every right to enjoy your internet dogcakes. Yum.

If that's the best troll you can come up with, that's very sad indeed. But really, it's your parents I feel most sorry for, they must be so disappointed. :(

Let's not get personal Omegus.....

Kanluwen wrote:Is Ward a great writer? No. He's nowhere near the likes of Dan Abnett or Aaron Dembski-Bowden or Gav Thorpe. He's more of an Andy Hoare. Andy Hoare can come up with great concepts...but he does not do so well with the details.

Good writers?

Dan Abnett? Check.

Aaron Dembski-Bowden? Check.

Gav Thorpe?

Gav Thorpe is very hit or miss.

In terms of 40k stuff? He's not that great. Fantasy? He's done far, far better.

His "Sundering" stuff, Aenarion, and The Bloody-Handed Gods are in my opinon 'Must Reads' for anyone who wants to do High Elves or Dark Elves.

iproxtaco wrote:I think that's something we can all agree on....... Hopefully.

Ah, if we could only just agree... Without the telling each other to eat dog treats. (Which aren't bad, by the by, just very dry, at least the few biscuits I had the pleasure partaking in were).

See, but I dont think this argument has been resolved:

One side of this argument wants the fact that tragic elements are what constitute Ward's product being good with concepts as proof he is a good writer.
The other side argues that the tragic elements are purely coincidence, and that this codex is the ooze that has prematurely seeped forth from an excited fan.

At least, as I understand each side.

Omegus wrote:

Radiation wrote:
Get real. Your little nerdgang can blowdry my hair with all the heat of your wits combined. You don't like Draigo because he kills lots of stuff, won't take a bath, and doesn't eat cheeseburgers and pizza. You can't stay on topic because your argument is stupid so you flame and troll instead. Your like three little dogs humping each other. Every once in a while you stop to bite at the ankles of a passerby. You have every right to enjoy your internet dogcakes. Yum.

If that's the best troll you can come up with, that's very sad indeed. But really, it's your parents I feel most sorry for, they must be so disappointed. :(

Hey you two keep it cool in there.

I agree with Kan.

He's no Dan Abnett, or Aaron.

Asherian Command wrote:

Omegus wrote:

Radiation wrote:
Get real. Your little nerdgang can blowdry my hair with all the heat of your wits combined. You don't like Draigo because he kills lots of stuff, won't take a bath, and doesn't eat cheeseburgers and pizza. You can't stay on topic because your argument is stupid so you flame and troll instead. Your like three little dogs humping each other. Every once in a while you stop to bite at the ankles of a passerby. You have every right to enjoy your internet dogcakes. Yum.

If that's the best troll you can come up with, that's very sad indeed. But really, it's your parents I feel most sorry for, they must be so disappointed. :(

Hey you two keep it cool in there.

I agree with Kan.

He's no Dan Abnett, or Aaron.

No one is as good as me