A perspective on insane GW prices

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**Turnip Jedi**

-Loki- wrote:
Chamberlain wrote:
In the last report thingy they do mention a project to recruit new customers through the internet. I don't know how quickly it could work (if it ever does) but if it does end up that they can get new customers without the stores, I think they'll embrace it. It's supposed to launch later in the year. I wonder what it'll be like.

Good luck to them, but I don't see this being fruitful.

Brick and mortar stores are an anchor for the customer. They know that's where they get GW products, they're not exposed to better pricing in the store or competitors products, and they know that's where they can go to get a game. To see a competitors products you need to travel to another store - if there's one in the local area.

Recruiting online means they're recruiting people with instant access to competitors products and prices, with no incentive to actually visit a GW store other than to game. When they want to venture out to find a store to play in and meet the local gamers, the chances of them finding an independent retailer instead of a GW store is, depending on the area, quite good, which means they're also seeing people in the store playing competitors products.

It's good they want to finally embrace the online aspects of the hobby, but as a recruitment tool they're going to be careful otherwise they'll get people interested in the hobby, but not their product.

Valid points but as has been mentioned it suggests a lack of confidence on GW's part in their own product, or in tinfoil hat land a tacit admission that their games just aren't good enough to compete outside the GW bubble

**ChazSexington**

Strg Alt wrote:
Price for GUO during 2nd: 30 DM (ca. 15 Euro).
Price for new GUO: 110 Euro.

That´s really quite insane.I am so glad that I purchased the old model.

Apples and oranges. Different time, material, design, size, rules etc. The only thing they truly share is the name and imagery.

**Strg Alt**

ChazSexington wrote:
Strg Alt wrote:
Price for GUO during 2nd: 30 DM (ca. 15 Euro).
Price for new GUO: 110 Euro.

That´s really quite insane.I am so glad that I purchased the old model.

Apples and oranges. Different time, material, design, size, rules etc. The only thing they truly share is the name and imagery.

Apples and oranges:
Used with reference to two things that are fundamentally different and therefore not suited to comparison.

Source: https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/apples_and_oranges.

First model is a GUO from the ´90s and the second one is a brand new GUO. Both fill exactly the same unit entry in a codex. Apples and oranges indeed.

**Denny**

I can think of at least one difference; I’m really looking forward to getting the new Great Unclean One whereas the old one was the only Greater Daemon I didn’t own because of how horrible it looked. And not in a good way.

But hey, you prefer it, and that’s 1) cool and 2) really lucky for you because you like the cheaper one.

Likewise I’m sure there are people who think a Morris Minor is more visually attractive cars than a Ferrari. And that’s fine too, providing those people don’t assume that their particular preference is shared by the majority.

**Pacific**

While the new miniatures is lovely, I think comparing it as a Morris Minor vs. a Ferrari is a bit OTT

**JohnHwangDD**

Morris Minor? Better would have been Reliant Robin.

That TG segment on that was hysterical!

**Grimtuff**

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Morris Minor? Better would have been Reliant Robin.

That TG segment on that was hysterical!

Correct, the new GUO is certainly a plastic pig...

**-Loki-**

Turnip Jedi wrote:
-Loki- wrote:
Chamberlain wrote:
In the last report thingy they do mention a project to recruit new customers through the internet. I don't know how quickly it could work (if it ever does) but if it does end up that they can get new customers without the stores, I think they'll embrace it. It's supposed to launch later in the year. I wonder what it'll be like.

Good luck to them, but I don't see this being fruitful.

Brick and mortar stores are an anchor for the customer. They know that's where they get GW products, they're not exposed to better pricing in the store or competitors products, and they know that's where they can go to get a game. To see a competitors products you need to travel to another store - if there's one in the local area.

Recruiting online means they're recruiting people with instant access to competitors products and prices, with no incentive to actually visit a GW store other than to game. When they want to venture out to find a store to play in and meet the local gamers, the chances of them finding an independent retailer instead of a GW store is, depending on the area, quite good, which means they're also seeing people in the store playing competitors products.

It's good they want to finally embrace the online aspects of the hobby, but as a recruitment tool they're going to be careful otherwise they'll get people interested in the hobby, but not their product.

Valid points but as has been mentioned it suggests a lack of confidence on GW's part in their own product, or in tinfoil hat land a tacit admission that their games just aren't good enough to compete outside the GW bubble

Not at all. The problem is simply that their stores are a bubble of zero competition. They're very controlled environments where they can dictate how people do their hobby if they want to play in their stores.

The internet is not that. GW can't dictate anything. They're right there alongside all of their competition - other games, people selling alternative models for their games, people selling cheap second hand GW models. These are things that continually beat GW on price, and have very vocal supporters. Even if they get people to play their games, they might not even end up buying the majority of their models from GW or GW resellers. Whoever GW gets to try to recruit online is going to have to drown out those supporters in order to get their message through.

**master of ordinance**

-Loki- wrote:

Not at all. The problem is simply that their stores are a bubble of zero competition. They're very controlled environments where they can dictate how people do their hobby if they want to play in their stores.

The internet is not that. GW can't dictate anything. They're right there alongside all of their competition - other games, people selling alternative models for their games, people selling cheap second hand GW models. These are things that continually beat GW on price, and have very vocal supporters. Even if they get people to play their games, they might not even end up buying the majority of their models from GW or GW resellers. Whoever GW gets to try to recruit online is going to have to drown out those supporters in order to get their message through.

This right here. Does anyone else remember the decade of "the internet does nt exist, what are you talking about" denial from GW?

**Pink Horror**

-Loki- wrote:
Chamberlain wrote:
In the last report thingy they do mention a project to recruit new customers through the internet. I don't know how quickly it could work (if it ever does) but if it does end up that they can get new customers without the stores, I think they'll embrace it. It's supposed to launch later in the year. I wonder what it'll be like.

Good luck to them, but I don't see this being fruitful.

Brick and mortar stores are an anchor for the customer. They know that's where they get GW products, they're not exposed to better pricing in the store or competitors products, and they know that's where they can go to get a game. To see a competitors products you need to travel to another store - if there's one in the local area.

Recruiting online means they're recruiting people with instant access to competitors products and prices, with no incentive to actually visit a GW store other than to game. When they want to venture out to find a store to play in and meet the local gamers, the chances of them finding an independent retailer instead of a GW store is, depending on the area, quite good, which means they're also seeing people in the store playing competitors products.

It's good they want to finally embrace the online aspects of the hobby, but as a recruitment tool they're going to be careful otherwise they'll get people interested in the hobby, but not their product.

How many potential new customers are out there who would never try to lookup GW online after discovering the brick and mortar store? Even these hypothetical people who don't use the internet and are wandering the streets looking for game stores will come across the local independent store eventually, if one exists.

In my experience sometimes people just like going to heavily branded, focused stores. Some people like to shop at the Apple store, or the Polo store, or the Disney store, or the M&M store, or the Nintendo store. It's not because they've been sheltered from competitors' products or cheaper retailers. Well, maybe Apple has managed to do that.

**ChazSexington**

Strg Alt wrote:
ChazSexington wrote:
Strg Alt wrote:
Price for GUO during 2nd: 30 DM (ca. 15 Euro).
Price for new GUO: 110 Euro.

That´s really quite insane.I am so glad that I purchased the old model.

Apples and oranges. Different time, material, design, size, rules etc. The only thing they truly share is the name and imagery.

Apples and oranges:
Used with reference to two things that are fundamentally different and therefore not suited to comparison.

Source: https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/apples_and_oranges.

First model is a GUO from the ´90s and the second one is a brand new GUO. Both fill exactly the same unit entry in a codex. Apples and oranges indeed.

It's actually econ 101. An apple produced today is different from an apple in the 90s. From regulations, to GMPs, technology, salaries, taxes etc.

Either way, not interested in discussing something this basic.

**Teafortheteapot**

I thought GW couldn't surprise me with pricing anymore . . .

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-AU/The-Harbingers-Collection-2018

I actually scrolled up to check if I was on the NZ website. That's US$175 BTW. For four 32mm models.

**RoninXiC**

Even 100€ is stupid.

**Whirlwind**

ChazSexington wrote:
Strg Alt wrote:
ChazSexington wrote:
Strg Alt wrote:
Price for GUO during 2nd: 30 DM (ca. 15 Euro).
Price for new GUO: 110 Euro.

That´s really quite insane.I am so glad that I purchased the old model.

Apples and oranges. Different time, material, design, size, rules etc. The only thing they truly share is the name and imagery.

Apples and oranges:
Used with reference to two things that are fundamentally different and therefore not suited to comparison.

Source: https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/apples_and_oranges.

First model is a GUO from the ´90s and the second one is a brand new GUO. Both fill exactly the same unit entry in a codex. Apples and oranges indeed.

It's actually econ 101. An apple produced today is different from an apple in the 90s. From regulations, to GMPs, technology, salaries, taxes etc.

Either way, not interested in discussing something this basic.

I think better examples would be items that are re-released after a period of time (literally apples for apples) For example we have today the Skullvane Manse released again. Last sold in about 2016 it sold for £46 IIRC. Today it has been released at £65. That's a 40% increase over three years. The price increase is questionable. The design work etc has already previously been undertaken. There will increased staffing and other inflationary pressures but that won't account for the rate increase as the costly elements have already been undertaken.

**Strg Alt**

RoninXiC wrote:
Even 100€ is stupid.

Correct. I bought recently Sly Marbo & Inquisitor Greyfax for 20€ per model. These two were already quite expensive but apparently not expensive enough for the tastes of GW. Definitely not going to pay 25€. And what ´s the point to sell all four together with no discount?

**-Loki-**

I was in my FLGS today and noticed they had Shadespire on the shelf and a few... warbands?

Now this is how you price a fething low entry game, GW, even in Australia. $95 for a base game that includes 8 nice, unique plastic miniatures with some high quality board game components? Very nice. Extra warbands look super nice as well, and they're $50? For 7 unique plastic Skeletons or 4 huge Orcs? I've even heard good things about the actual game.

This is the GW I want to see more of. Not the one charging two hundred and thirty fething dollars for a greater deamon.

I'll never convince people I know to play Shadespire, but I might just pick up a set of Sepulchral Guard because they're super nice.

**H.B.M.C.**

They're not huge Orks. They're just Black Orcs. If they were the Brutes, different story, but they're not.

**Flinty**

GW doesn't charge based on materials or difficulty or points cost. They supply materials for a luxury hobby. So it gets benchmarked against other luxury hobbies like golf and, I don't know, hard-core cinema going or something, and price accordingly.

**Mitochondria**

Teafortheteapot wrote:
I thought GW couldn't surprise me with pricing anymore . . .

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-AU/The-Harbingers-Collection-2018

I actually scrolled up to check if I was on the NZ website. That's US$175 BTW. For four 32mm models.

Anyone who pays that price is stupid.

**Turnip Jedi**

-Loki- wrote:
I was in my FLGS today and noticed they had Shadespire on the shelf and a few... warbands?

Now this is how you price a fething low entry game, GW, even in Australia. $95 for a base game that includes 8 nice, unique plastic miniatures with some high quality board game components? Very nice. Extra warbands look super nice as well, and they're $50? For 7 unique plastic Skeletons or 4 huge Orcs? I've even heard good things about the actual game.

This is the GW I want to see more of. Not the one charging two hundred and thirty fething dollars for a greater deamon.

I'll never convince people I know to play Shadespire, but I might just pick up a set of Sepulchral Guard because they're super nice.

Yarp as GW-skeptic as I am had Shadespire arrived 12-18 months earlier I'm fairly sure they'd have lured me back in, but following the debacle of 7th most of the local players picked up other non-GW games instead, heck if the inevitable Elf warband(s) catches my eye theres a middling possibility I'll put aside my concerns over longevity and card creep and dive in as £50-£60 is a reasonable buy in

**Gimgamgoo**

I still just don't get it...

10 top quality multipose Necromunda figures = £25
Or
4 AoS monopose figures = £80

Even more bizarre, Necromunda box set, 20 figures, card terrain, dice, rules OR for just £5 more, you could have 4 similar sized figures.
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/The-Harbingers-Collection-2018

GW pricing is insane because of the variability, not just the high amounts.

**Azreal13**

Flinty wrote:
GW doesn't charge based on materials or difficulty or points cost. They supply materials for a luxury hobby. So it gets benchmarked against other luxury hobbies like golf and, I don't know, hard-core cinema going or something, and price accordingly.

Citation needed.

Because that's a fairly bizarre method of pricing if true. I mean, why not pick precious gem collecting or race driving and really charge for their stuff.

What you're effectively arguing there is Tesco can charge £20 a dozen for chicken eggs because caviar.

**thekingofkings**

Teafortheteapot wrote:
I thought GW couldn't surprise me with pricing anymore . . .

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-AU/The-Harbingers-Collection-2018

I actually scrolled up to check if I was on the NZ website. That's US$175 BTW. For four 32mm models.

the US site has it as $140, not a direct currency conversion. I believe aussies and kiwis can do some weird thing about a p.o. box in oregon (gotta go through my pms, but i did a deal with an aussie and it was what he had me do, he told em about it) and you can get stuff shipped from US to US and it forwards to aussie or kiwiland.

**-Loki-**

thekingofkings wrote:
Teafortheteapot wrote:
I thought GW couldn't surprise me with pricing anymore . . .

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-AU/The-Harbingers-Collection-2018

I actually scrolled up to check if I was on the NZ website. That's US$175 BTW. For four 32mm models.

the US site has it as $140, not a direct currency conversion. I believe aussies and kiwis can do some weird thing about a p.o. box in oregon (gotta go through my pms, but i did a deal with an aussie and it was what he had me do, he told em about it) and you can get stuff shipped from US to US and it forwards to aussie or kiwiland.

Or, like an increasing number of Aussies and Kiwis, you just play games from companies that let you buy their stuff however you want and don’t gouge you because of location.

**stroller**

Harbingers? Two great figures. Two awful ones. None of them worth £20 each.

**ingtaer**

thekingofkings wrote:
Teafortheteapot wrote:
I thought GW couldn't surprise me with pricing anymore . . .

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-AU/The-Harbingers-Collection-2018

I actually scrolled up to check if I was on the NZ website. That's US$175 BTW. For four 32mm models.

the US site has it as $140, not a direct currency conversion. I believe aussies and kiwis can do some weird thing about a p.o. box in oregon (gotta go through my pms, but i did a deal with an aussie and it was what he had me do, he told em about it) and you can get stuff shipped from US to US and it forwards to aussie or kiwiland.

Mail forwarding service;
For the Kiwis - https://www.nzpost.co.nz/tools/youshop
For the Ozzies - https://shopmate.auspost.com.au/

Also can be used to get stuff from the UK. The onward shipping cost is calculated on the dimensions of the box not the weight which is worth keeping in mind.

**Elbows**

Gimgamgoo wrote:
I still just don't get it...

10 top quality multipose Necromunda figures = £25
Or
4 AoS monopose figures = £80

Even more bizarre, Necromunda box set, 20 figures, card terrain, dice, rules OR for just £5 more, you could have 4 similar sized figures.
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/The-Harbingers-Collection-2018

GW pricing is insane because of the variability, not just the high amounts.

And this is my main problem with silly character models...

4x Primaris Space Marine Characters = $140 + Shipping (free from GW)

or...

30x Tactical Space Marines in MkIV
5x Cataphractii Terminators
2x Space Marine Characters
1x Dreadnought
+Card/Game/Dice/Books
...for $150.

Alternatively you can also get:

30x MkIII Tactical Marines
5x Custodes Figures
5x Sisters of Silence
5x Tartaros Terminators
2x Space Marine characters
...for $150.

I've purchased three of the above boxed games, and...zero GW plastic characters.

**Just Tony**

Azreal13 wrote:
Flinty wrote:
GW doesn't charge based on materials or difficulty or points cost. They supply materials for a luxury hobby. So it gets benchmarked against other luxury hobbies like golf and, I don't know, hard-core cinema going or something, and price accordingly.

Citation needed.

Because that's a fairly bizarre method of pricing if true. I mean, why not pick precious gem collecting or race driving and really charge for their stuff.

What you're effectively arguing there is Tesco can charge £20 a dozen for chicken eggs because caviar.

Boxed sets had prices set to their game worth rather than parts count. Remember the Space Hulk Terminator plastics that were sold as a boxed set? Those were the price of 10 standard marines, or 16 Dark Eldar warriors. Their pricing is still every bit as skewed, sprue count has nothing to do with it anymore.

**AllSeeingSkink**

Elbows wrote:
Gimgamgoo wrote:
I still just don't get it...

10 top quality multipose Necromunda figures = £25
Or
4 AoS monopose figures = £80

Even more bizarre, Necromunda box set, 20 figures, card terrain, dice, rules OR for just £5 more, you could have 4 similar sized figures.
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/The-Harbingers-Collection-2018

GW pricing is insane because of the variability, not just the high amounts.

And this is my main problem with silly character models...

4x Primaris Space Marine Characters = $140 + Shipping (free from GW)

or...

30x Tactical Space Marines in MkIV
5x Cataphractii Terminators
2x Space Marine Characters
1x Dreadnought
+Card/Game/Dice/Books
...for $150.

Alternatively you can also get:

30x MkIII Tactical Marines
5x Custodes Figures
5x Sisters of Silence
5x Tartaros Terminators
2x Space Marine characters
...for $150.

I've purchased three of the above boxed games, and...zero GW plastic characters.

GW have come out with a few characters I'd like to paint up but walk out of the store laughing (metaphorically) when I see the prices they put on them.

I'd rather they bring back metal if it means we can get characters for half the price and I actually start buying them again

Automatically Appended Next Post:

-Loki- wrote:
Now this is how you price a fething low entry game, GW, even in Australia. $95 for a base game that includes 8 nice, unique plastic miniatures with some high quality board game components? Very nice. Extra warbands look super nice as well, and they're $50? For 7 unique plastic Skeletons or 4 huge Orcs? I've even heard good things about the actual game.

I wasn't entirely sure if you were serious. 8 models for $95 doesn't sound great to me (it doesn't even look good next to other GW board games like Blood Bowl or Space Hulk). I guess the entry price is lower which is good but the price per model isn't great.

And $50 for 4 not so huge Orcs? $12.50 an Orc is good?

I think you've been looking at GW's clampack character pricing too much and have lost track of what is and isn't good pricing

It's not even great value compared to other GW pricing, like the Blood Bowl teams which get you 12 models in 6 different poses for only $5 more.

**-Loki-**

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
-Loki- wrote:
Now this is how you price a fething low entry game, GW, even in Australia. $95 for a base game that includes 8 nice, unique plastic miniatures with some high quality board game components? Very nice. Extra warbands look super nice as well, and they're $50? For 7 unique plastic Skeletons or 4 huge Orcs? I've even heard good things about the actual game.
I wasn't entirely sure if you were serious. 8 models for $95 doesn't sound great to me (it doesn't even look good next to other GW board games like Blood Bowl or Space Hulk). I guess the entry price is lower which is good but the price per model isn't great.

And $50 for 4 not so huge Orcs? $12.50 an Orc is good?

I think you've been looking at GW's clampack character pricing too much and have lost track of what is and isn't good pricing

It's not even great value compared to other GW pricing, like the Blood Bowl teams which get you 12 models in 6 different poses for only $5 more.

$95 for a skirmish game starter is about normal. Infinity is over $100au, Batmans Suicide Squad was nearly $200au (though that doesn't seem to be available anymore, likely due to the swap to Resin). Malifaux is $80au.

$50au for a warband is again in line with the industry - starter boxes for Infinity are $50-$60au for 6 models, and Malifaux between $50au and $70au for 5-7 HIPS models. Knight models, after the shift to Resin, you'll likely go about $60 for your starting crew as well depending on which one you go with (looking at built crews you're likely going to start with a 'starter' set and an extra goon pack or couple of solos). Even Frostgrave (assuming you go with the Northstar sets, since it's a game that's very, very easy to shop around for) you're looking at about $55 to start for a multipart box and a wizard.

Shadespire is actually in line with the industry for skirmish games. Maybe a little high, but still within what you'd expect in the skirmish side of the hobby.