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Im looking to start collecting an army, and i would like an army that can drive a wedge down through the enemy forces, and then have a second group that can finish them of from a distance, without too many friendly casualties.

I think one of the groups would need some solid CC, while the others should be fairly accurate, im considering Tau or some variation of SM.

Space marines can do anything.

Tau arent exactly gonna drive a wedge, and NO army will do either of the things stated above without too many casualties.

The question you should be asked is what do you prefer? Survivability, Speed or Damage?

You can only choose 2.

Speed and Damage would go armies like Dark Eldar and Eldar, Space marines can do all 3 with different builds, Imperial Guard are generally slow and cumbersome but fall like a hammer. Be more elaborate in your question.

Well 40K very often works inversely, with shooting more dominating in the early game as armies close and opponents "de-mech" and "soften up" each other, followed by close combat rapidly taking the centre stage as units clash and/or get wiped/cleaned off the board.

No matter what army, if you have successfully driven a "wedge" through the opponent with cc with few casualties on your own, there is usually little need for a secondary support of shooting to finish it up.

I think the closest to your vision would be a Marine (Vanilla, Blood Angels, Space Wolves..) with a strong Terminator/LR Deathstar leading the way. As a powerful cc-force (that, however, may not sweep a defeated opponent), you' might get something akin to the "wedge-"effect with largely beaten, yet not wiped-out survivors. Still, games of that sort tend to revolve around delivering the Deathstar successfully (or trying to deny that), more than what happens after.

Could easily be done with a Marine army, where half is either deep striking or driving straight up into the enemy, with fire support from heavy weapons squads, fire support dreadnoughts, and predators holding down the backfield.

Jaon wrote:Space marines can do anything.

Tau arent exactly gonna drive a wedge, and NO army will do either of the things stated above without too many casualties.

The question you should be asked is what do you prefer? Survivability, Speed or Damage?

You can only choose 2.

Speed and Damage would go armies like Dark Eldar and Eldar, Space marines can do all 3 with different builds, Imperial Guard are generally slow and cumbersome but fall like a hammer. Be more elaborate in your question.

Sorry about being a little unclear, i would like something that have speed and damage, survivabilty is secondary or tertiary. my main wish, is for an army where the main part can charge the largest group of enemies, while the second (smaller part) deals with the unites that arent excatly my opponents main force, but still relatively close(Does that make sense?).

shiny wrote:

Jaon wrote:Space marines can do anything.

Tau arent exactly gonna drive a wedge, and NO army will do either of the things stated above without too many casualties.

The question you should be asked is what do you prefer? Survivability, Speed or Damage?

You can only choose 2.

Speed and Damage would go armies like Dark Eldar and Eldar, Space marines can do all 3 with different builds, Imperial Guard are generally slow and cumbersome but fall like a hammer. Be more elaborate in your question.

Sorry about being a little unclear, i would like something that have speed and damage, survivabilty is secondary or tertiary. my main wish, is for an army where the main part can charge the largest group of enemies, while the second (smaller part) deals with the unites that arent excatly my opponents main force, but still relatively close(Does that make sense?).

Literally any army can do that (except Tau). They all have access to heavy weapons in the backfield, and all have access to forward assault units.

You should really find some story you like and start from there.

Grey Knights. Especially the list I have in the Swap Shop. Hint, hint... wink, wink.

DeffDred wrote:Grey Knights. Especially the list I have in the Swap Shop. Hint, hint... wink, wink.

Nudge Nudge Know what i mean Know what i mean?(thats the right show right?)

Arent GK more of an advanced army? as in rather difficult to gather/paint/play. I would really like to start out small, and then perhaps work my way up. I dont really think about playin very much seeing as i dont know anyone who plays, but i might consider it later on.

Purchasing Grey Knights: 2 or 3 boxes of Terminators, call them Paladins.

Painting Grey Knights: cover in Boltgun Metal.

Playing Grey Knights: simultaneously out-shoot and out-assault every army you meet.

shiny wrote:

Sorry about being a little unclear, i would like something that have speed and damage, survivabilty is secondary or tertiary. my main wish, is for an army where the main part can charge the largest group of enemies, while the second (smaller part) deals with the unites that arent excatly my opponents main force, but still relatively close(Does that make sense?).

Blood Angels from the sound of it, if you build it to assault and avoid the "mech"(i.e. tank-)heavy route. Fast, assault-oriented, and access to reliable Marine-shooting to back it up.

Other Marine armies can obviously make this work too, including Chaos Marines, though they are among the most dated. Orks. Tyranids perhaps, though this is arguably the most qualfied as they need more trickery and less "charge!" to get their.

I'd stay away from Tau (no-cc), the two Eldar (more scoot-&-shoot), Necrons (no-cc.. almost), Daemons (exotic deployment) and Guard (not really into the "charge"),

From the limited information you've given that is.

Zweischneid wrote:

shiny wrote:

Sorry about being a little unclear, i would like something that have speed and damage, survivabilty is secondary or tertiary. my main wish, is for an army where the main part can charge the largest group of enemies, while the second (smaller part) deals with the unites that arent excatly my opponents main force, but still relatively close(Does that make sense?).

Blood Angels from the sound of it, if you build it to assault and avoid the "mech"(i.e. tank-)heavy route. Fast, assault-oriented, and access to reliable Marine-shooting to back it up.

Other Marine armies can obviously make this work too, including Chaos Marines, though they are among the most dated. Orks. Tyranids perhaps, though this is arguably the most qualfied as they need more trickery and less "charge!" to get their.

I'd stay away from Tau (no-cc), the two Eldar (more scoot-&-shoot), Necrons (no-cc.. almost), Daemons (exotic deployment) and Guard (not really into the "charge"),

From the limited information you've given that is.

These Blood Angels sound interesting, is there anything interesting about them(lore-ish) and are there a lot of people using them(while I don't intend to play right from the start I like to have opportunity, and I would rather not look like someone who just jumped on the bandwagon.

DarkHound wrote:Purchasing Grey Knights: 2 or 3 boxes of Terminators, call them Paladins.

Painting Grey Knights: cover in Boltgun Metal.

Playing Grey Knights: simultaneously out-shoot and out-assault every army you meet.

lol If he plays paladins hed have to figure out a delivery. Walking isnt all that good espeacially if said paladins are all one squad and the game has 5 objectives. lol 10 paladins alone is over 690 pts and then add in Draigo with libby your well over 1k. Not exactly new guy friendly. Then hell be playing for a lot of ties unless hes playing in 2500 pt games so he can add in more stuff.

yeah walking paladins=lascannon fodder

Draigo wrote:

DarkHound wrote:Purchasing Grey Knights: 2 or 3 boxes of Terminators, call them Paladins.

Painting Grey Knights: cover in Boltgun Metal.

Playing Grey Knights: simultaneously out-shoot and out-assault every army you meet.

lol If he plays paladins hed have to figure out a delivery. Walking isnt all that good espeacially if said paladins are all one squad and the game has 5 objectives. lol 10 paladins alone is over 690 pts and then add in Draigo with libby your well over 1k. Not exactly new guy friendly. Then hell be playing for a lot of ties unless hes playing in 2500 pt games so he can add in more stuff.

Don't mean to offend you here, but that was perhaps the most beautiful gibberish I have seen in a long time, i know you understand all those objectives and points things, but all I know is that you play against each other with some plastic figures(metal too I think) that you assemble and paint yourself.

I know it was a post to the guy stating something about paladins(sounds cool by the way), but if it is something important please spell it out to me, as I know jack about the game.

Edit: fixed a little spelling in my post, think I got most of it.

Draigo wrote:

DarkHound wrote:Purchasing Grey Knights: 2 or 3 boxes of Terminators, call them Paladins.

Painting Grey Knights: cover in Boltgun Metal.

Playing Grey Knights: simultaneously out-shoot and out-assault every army you meet.

lol If he plays paladins hed have to figure out a delivery. Walking isnt all that good espeacially if said paladins are all one squad and the game has 5 objectives. lol 10 paladins alone is over 690 pts and then add in Draigo with libby your well over 1k. Not exactly new guy friendly. Then hell be playing for a lot of ties unless hes playing in 2500 pt games so he can add in more stuff.

If you overload them with crap maybe. At 1000 points you don't need Apothecaries, or Brotherhood banners, or Warding Staves. You can field 10 Paladins with some equipment, Draigo, and a Dreadnought with guns for 1000 points on the nose. At that level, pretty much any list I bring is going to have 2 or maybe 3 troops. If the game has 5 objectives, figure out which two your opponent is going for and kill him off them.

If you buy 2 boxes of Terminators, you can field 9 Paladins and convert the 10th Terminator into Draigo. Then for 50 bucks more you get round out the list with a Dreadnought. $150 bucks and 5 hours of painting is literally the best deal you'll get on a 1000 point army.

DarkHound wrote:

Draigo wrote:

DarkHound wrote:Purchasing Grey Knights: 2 or 3 boxes of Terminators, call them Paladins.

Painting Grey Knights: cover in Boltgun Metal.

Playing Grey Knights: simultaneously out-shoot and out-assault every army you meet.

lol If he plays paladins hed have to figure out a delivery. Walking isnt all that good espeacially if said paladins are all one squad and the game has 5 objectives. lol 10 paladins alone is over 690 pts and then add in Draigo with libby your well over 1k. Not exactly new guy friendly. Then hell be playing for a lot of ties unless hes playing in 2500 pt games so he can add in more stuff.

If you overload them with crap maybe. At 1000 points you don't need Apothecaries, or Brotherhood banners, or Warding Staves. You can field 10 Paladins with some equipment, Draigo, and a Dreadnought with guns for 1000 points on the nose. At that level, pretty much any list I bring is going to have 2 or maybe 3 troops. If the game has 5 objectives, figure out which two your opponent is going for and kill him off them.

If you buy 2 boxes of Terminators, you can field 9 Paladins and convert the 10th Terminator into Draigo. Then for 50 bucks more you get round out the list with a Dreadnought. $150 bucks and 5 hours of painting is literally the best deal you'll get on a 1000 point army.

Ah thats not a bad idea as long as you arent playing dark lance spam de, ig spamming las or plas, etc. Then its just a matter of objective placement and cover. Though sw can do it as well. They wont be as durable per se but with have more bodies which means more guns. Plus their rune priest doesnt do a hood roll off. He just rolls a 4+ and cancels powers. So itd be a matter of preference and what they wanted to build later. The rumors of 6th edition fixing wound allocation could make the paladins not as good.

Blood Angels or Space Wolves.

Draigo wrote:Ah thats not a bad idea as long as you arent playing dark lance spam de, ig spamming las or plas, etc. Then its just a matter of objective placement and cover. Though sw can do it as well. They wont be as durable per se but with have more bodies which means more guns. Plus their rune priest doesnt do a hood roll off. He just rolls a 4+ and cancels powers. So itd be a matter of preference and what they wanted to build later. The rumors of 6th edition fixing wound allocation could make the paladins not as good.

If he goes up against someone who plays high end competitive lists, he'll lose because they're more experienced. Worrying about losing to competitive armies is moot.

Nids might work.

You can use hordes, with a unit of carnifex, and two tervigons with their free str 5 large blast shot and a few other things too.

Using your carnifex and your hordes, you can drive a wedge up the middle, your tervigons can bring up the rear and give allied models feel no pain, spawning expendable shooting gaunts as you move forward.

Nothing drives a wedge like a deffrolla battlewagon rush down the midline...

After that, not so much though, as the side and rear armour is weak.


Blood Angels might work (vampire marines and yes, they sparkle..)

Black Templars might be worth a look.

I've done 'divide and conquer' with me DE before, taking the middle and working out.

OP: I would decide what army really appeals to you most, and buy their codex and a rulebook, if you haven't yet.
Any army (even Tau, but they really have to stretch to do it) can fit your specs.

Also be aware that your opponent will be doing everything they can to not let you drive in that wedge

Brother SRM wrote:Could easily be done with a Marine army, where half is either deep striking or driving straight up into the enemy, with fire support from heavy weapons squads, fire support dreadnoughts, and predators holding down the backfield.

This. There's a reason it's not very powerful, though. You'll get destroyed by any gunline army.

I would think that Eldar can do this pretty well. You can get some Striking Scorpions/Banshees to go down the middle in some Wave Serpents, then have some Weapon Platforms or Dark Reapers waiting in the flank to shoot em up.

shiny wrote:Im looking to start collecting an army, and i would like an army that can drive a wedge down through the enemy forces, and then have a second group that can finish them of from a distance, without too many friendly casualties.

40k doesn't work quite like that, actually. No matter what army you're going to play, it's going to be more long-range shooting softening them up for your thrust, rather than the other way around. Long-range shooting in 40k is sometimes necessary, but never comprehensive, making it something that does support.

If you're looking for a spearhead, you're looking for spending a lot of points in a small footprint. Probably the best army for this is a landraider army, or an army that has a couple land raiders and is otherwise mechanized. Conveniently, this also handles your low casualty thing.

Probably the best army for this would be either grey knights, space wolves, and CSM, as all three can take land raiders in sufficient quantity and have pretty scary stuff charge out of it.

BT also.

BT have landraiders like girl guides have cookies

SW, Select Either drop pod Wolfguard terminators or bring in some fast moving Thunderwolf Cavalry, and then bring in a squad or two of Long Fangs to reach out and touch your enemies.

If you take the WG Terms bring Grimnar and it makes them a troop choice for scoring purposes.

Pretty much Vanilla Marines.

Thank you for all the advice guys, i didnt understand some of the numbers, but i think i might look into the blood angels thing