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Ok, here is my problem, I am building a competetive list and have sets of warrios to start with: What is the best configuration of Kabalite warriors in a competetive list?

I'm certainly not going to get any points for originality, but these are probably the two most common configurations. You won't see much in the way of Kabalites from WWP lists, but they're bread and butter for Venoms and aren't a terrible escort for the Duke.

5x Kabalite Warriors - 1x Blaster, 4x Splinter Rifles
Venom - 2x Splinter Cannons

Duke Sliscus
9x Kabalite Warriors - 9x Splinter Rifles
Raider - Dark Lance, Flickerfield, Splinter Racks

The second configuration isn't particularly effective. As a general rule you shouldn't build specific units for the Duke to go in for his Poison rule, its easily the worst of his buffs since you can get more killing power from Venoms anyway. At most you just boost a 5 man Blaster unit up a bit.

Anyway there are only really 2 main configurations worth considering, with a couple of slightly variations.
5 Warriors, 1 with Blaster is by far the most common build, its cheap and gets you an anti tank shot. This always goes in a transport though, usually a Venom, but a Raider is equally viable if you list needs the anti tank. The main variation here is that it can be worth taking a Sybarite with Blast Pistol to maximise the punch of each squad, most common in Deep Strike builds.

The other config is 10 strong with a Lance, which doesn't get much use but is an effective backfield objective holder and will likely put out 4-5 anti tank shots a game (as opposed to Blaster which get 1-2).

That's pretty much it though, there isn't much variation since any of the other options serve no purpose. You are never going to take a Shredder over a Blaster, taking more than 5 guy is pointless since you can't ever double up on Special weapons, taking both a Blaster and a Lance isn't very effective since they have different ranges and roles (static vs moving being the main one) and unlike Marines you can't combat squad to use them effectively and going all the way up to 20 to get a second Lance is both incredibly inefficient and gives you a static unit that is very vulnerable to assault.

10 with a blaster and splinter cannon on venom with splinter racks does well, as does 5 with blaster in a venom. There should be an agonizer in the group of 10 and a PGL if you desire the melees.

What can I say? I was really struggling to find a second way to field them. I've seen the Duke used in that fashion and while I don't personally like it, I felt it was worth mentioning.

I use 10 in a raider with a Splinter cannon, Flickerfield on the raider.

Thats all, I dont like to spend too much on upgrades for the guys or transport.

juraigamer wrote:10 with a blaster and splinter cannon on venom with splinter racks does well, as does 5 with blaster in a venom. There should be an agonizer in the group of 10 and a PGL if you desire the melees.

Kabalite warriors should not be seeking melee. They have 1 attack, str 3, t3 and a 5+. Basically they are guardsmen that cost twice as much with higher inititive. An agonizer and a PGL will run you 45 points, which could get you 5 more warriors which will be better every single time.

Think about it, they have a rapid fire weapon. You always want to rapid fire instead of assualting.





THere are some builds that work, 10 with a blaster and a cannon is one. 5 with nothing is another.

The only COMPETITIVE build is 5 with a blaster. Their weapon selection just isnt that good.

5 in a venom with a blaster, is a good cheap effective build. Good speed, can deal with. Infantry or tanks, and you can take multiples of the unit without breaking the point bank. All things that DE can do well with, and sort of need to be effective. I'm a big fan of keeping all DE units cheap as possible and going with numbers over upgrades

I agree with numbers over upgrades.

cheers for the help guys, really needed that

You could always just make them all Trueborn and give 4 of them blasters per 4 man squad....

Then just buy wyches as your main troops or wracks if you pick a haemy....

The basic troop Kabalite is basically 5 guys with 1 blaster... They are just another way to get a 2x SC venom on the table that scores! There use is ultra limited....

I'm quite unsure of having Kabalite warriors in any configuration past 5 man squads. Particularly with raiders, where the overall cost starts to really hamper the ratio of potential damage output versus price. Additionally, while you may be giving them a harder shell to hide in, the shell is brittle, and the warriors are wounded on 4+ if it explodes.

Just 5 warriors in a venom (with that extra splinter cannon), is arguably the best price vs damage deal you can get, if you're just looking for pure poison wepaon output. Toss in a blaster, you have a very nice anti-infantry vehicle that also poses a large threat to any vehicle.

So, personally, I would only ever run warriors in venoms.

I run them 10 to a raider, with Flickerfields, Splinter racks and a splinter cannon.

Raider pops the transport, and the guys inside mow down the gooey innards.

Works well on MC's too

Kharrak wrote:I'm quite unsure of having Kabalite warriors in any configuration past 5 man squads. Particularly with raiders, where the overall cost starts to really hamper the ratio of potential damage output versus price. Additionally, while you may be giving them a harder shell to hide in, the shell is brittle, and the warriors are wounded on 4+ if it explodes.

Just 5 warriors in a venom (with that extra splinter cannon), is arguably the best price vs damage deal you can get, if you're just looking for pure poison wepaon output. Toss in a blaster, you have a very nice anti-infantry vehicle that also poses a large threat to any vehicle.

So, personally, I would only ever run warriors in venoms.

I completely agree with 5man + 1 blaster

but you can also put those 5men in a raider. At a point you have enough venoms and its good to get a DL instead of more splinter cannons.

same thing tho with 5 in a venom... warriors shoot transport, venom mows down the squishy. works well on MC as well

I'm going to support a third build which is really the same as first one.

5 warriors with blaster in raider with disintegrator. A disintegrator averages more MEQ and TEQ kills than 2 splinter cannons and can threaten light armor vehicles. Considering most people play to the MEQ meta by taking lots of blasters instead of lots of shredders and splinter cannons i never understood why people felt the need to take a GEQ killer ie the venom. The local meta here has 2 guard players, 1 nid player, and 2 ork players at the usual 40+ participant tournaments. I guess if your local meta game is mostly geq venom it up, but otherwise why bother.

I always disliked the venom+ blaster warrior because you have to get into 18" with the warriors to pop the tank before you get a chance to shoot whats inside with the venom. and if you dont pop the tank your prolly SOL next turn.

the reason blasters are good, is because they are cheap, and effective 24: range with a 6" move. they arent the primary anti tank, they are there to support your lances, whatever the source. ravagers, etc. they also come in handy when facing down tougher infantry. getting that 1 "sure kill" in with your rifles and venom is extremly helpful, and across 6 units can mean an almost gaurenteed dead unit of any kind. or it can mean the diffrence between a morale check, or thinning down that incoming CC unit.

and honestly a 5 man team as above is 125 pts with transport. the transport is also less expensive then raider, and comes with the FF built in. its smaller profile is easier to hide, or pack more into a certain area, its smaller size also makes it less vulnerable to blast weapons. plus i like the nice even number of 125 pts. makes filling your pts easy and simple, instead of having a bunch of odd number pt units. i like easy math.

edit: also disentegrators are not that great... yea they are str 5 with good AP but youll only get 1 or 2 kills at best a round with it, and its garbage against anything not armor 10... and even then its pretty iffy. better off with the lance. it can make termies just as well, AND deal with heavy armor if you need. and really... with the amount of splinter fire avaialable you shouldnt need the extra str 5 dissy, since enough splinter/lance fire does the same thing. i DO however like the 10 warriors with cannon on a raider with racks. they can be pretty useful, but i generally only take one, and generally dont even do that unless im trying to vary my list up for playing against a newer player.

blaktoof wrote:I'm going to support a third build which is really the same as first one.

5 warriors with blaster in raider with disintegrator. A disintegrator averages more MEQ and TEQ kills than 2 splinter cannons and can threaten light armor vehicles. Considering most people play to the MEQ meta by taking lots of blasters instead of lots of shredders and splinter cannons i never understood why people felt the need to take a GEQ killer ie the venom. The local meta here has 2 guard players, 1 nid player, and 2 ork players at the usual 40+ participant tournaments. I guess if your local meta game is mostly geq venom it up, but otherwise why bother.

This isn't right at all. 2 Splinter Cannons is theoretically identical to the Disintegrator in terms of damage output against MEQ, except the Disintegrator falls well behind when the Marines have cover (i.e 90% of the time). Its also worth noting that the Cannons are both more reliable i.e you always get at least a couple of wounds due to the number of dice you are rolling, whereas 3 dice needing 3's then 3's isn't hard to fluff. They also have better potential max damage than the Disintegrator by a long way thanks to the massive increase in number of shots they can potentially kill far more if things go your way (theoretically you can get 12 vs 3, not reliable but it can happen and is enough to give it an edge when they are otherwise identical). Against Terminators the Disintegrator is just barely in front but only if you are facing standard Terminators for some reason, against TH/SS Terminators (i.e what everyone uses) or Terminators in cover the Splinter Cannons are better. The only non TH/SS Terminators you tend to see are Paladins, and you use Dark Lances on them anyway. Essentially Venoms are just better in every area, they kill MEQ and TEQ just as well, are far better against GEQ, absolutely murder MCs, are cheaper and both harder to destroy (since they come with a Flickerfield) and harder to neutralise (2 weapons vs 1). The only thing which Disintegrators can do that Cannons can't is threaten vehicles, but with S5 it isn't going to do anything meaningful.

dissies can be good in tailored lists but generally not TAC lists.

how are they good in tailored lists? as mentioned above: they generally perform on the same level as SC - but are less effiecent. they cant do what lances can with vehicles, and they dont have the weight of shots SC do. when you consider they are all pretty much "free" guns, the SC has an edge over the dissy, just because of its ability to take on ANYTHING with a toughness - and perform equally well across the board. dissys wont have much luck on trygons, or greater daemons etc, since str 5 hitting t6+ starts loosing power. even on infantry, well see above. tanks... hitting on 3+ and glacing on 5+ MIN is not great. plus, the SC can be infantry mounted, so its got more available platforms, as can the lance. dissy not so much. it also does not have any range superiority, coming in at 36 with everything else. what exactly are you facing that a tailored list requires dissys?

- GK = SC and lances.
-MEQ = sc and lances
-IG blob = SC
-IG mech = lance
SoB = see MEQ
nids = as many SC as i can cram in, some lances for support.
tau = lances all over the place, SC for mop up.
necrons = lances up the wazoo, SC for the rest
eldar = lance and SC
DE = lance and SC

???
dissys have no real utility vrs any army, that a lance or SC cant do better and more often. plus: the kicker dissys REMOVE your lance numbers, not SC numbers. so your actually loosing out on your ranged anti tank. and really the 3 shots a single raider, or eveb multiple raiders puts out is minimal. and if your riding splinter warriors on the raider, you need something to pop transports with, and a single lance is much better then a dissy. 3+/2-3+ vrs 3+/5,6 n/a...

and if your putting dissys on ravagers....why?

DarthSpader wrote:how are they good in tailored lists? as mentioned above: they generally perform on the same level as SC - but are less effiecent. they cant do what lances can with vehicles, and they dont have the weight of shots SC do. when you consider they are all pretty much "free" guns, the SC has an edge over the dissy, just because of its ability to take on ANYTHING with a toughness - and perform equally well across the board. dissys wont have much luck on trygons, or greater daemons etc, since str 5 hitting t6+ starts loosing power. even on infantry, well see above. tanks... hitting on 3+ and glacing on 5+ MIN is not great. plus, the SC can be infantry mounted, so its got more available platforms, as can the lance. dissy not so much. it also does not have any range superiority, coming in at 36 with everything else. what exactly are you facing that a tailored list requires dissys?

- GK = SC and lances.
-MEQ = sc and lances
-IG blob = SC
-IG mech = lance
SoB = see MEQ
nids = as many SC as i can cram in, some lances for support.
tau = lances all over the place, SC for mop up.
necrons = lances up the wazoo, SC for the rest
eldar = lance and SC
DE = lance and SC

???
dissys have no real utility vrs any army, that a lance or SC cant do better and more often. plus: the kicker dissys REMOVE your lance numbers, not SC numbers. so your actually loosing out on your ranged anti tank. and really the 3 shots a single raider, or eveb multiple raiders puts out is minimal. and if your riding splinter warriors on the raider, you need something to pop transports with, and a single lance is much better then a dissy. 3+/2-3+ vrs 3+/5,6 n/a...

and if your putting dissys on ravagers....why?

well if you are tailoring around the idea that say, your opponent has no vehicles then you dont need lances. if you dont need lances then what are you going to put on your raiders and ravagers? You could swap all your raiders out for venoms unless you actually had any units above 5 models. Dissy ravagers are good if your oppoent is playing full DoA for instance. they are only good when tailoring and probably only good when you know your opponenet is not fielding vehicles and has lots of T3/4 2+ or 3+ saves but that does sometimes happen.