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I like the idea of bikers in my chaos army and had an idea how about 2 5 man units of bikes with plasma rifles and a powerfist and a lash sorcerer on a bike an icon for daemon and termie delivery is it viable or a waste of time?

Crimson-King2120 wrote:I like the idea of bikers in my chaos army and had an idea how about 2 5 man units of bikes with plasma rifles and a powerfist and a lash sorcerer on a bike an icon for daemon and termie delivery is it viable or a waste of time?

Sounds great, but how many points left over for troops, which are better than bikers in every way.

It will probably come up to 500 + for everything listed so perhaps best used in 1500+ battles

Never put plasma on bikers. I'm speaking of personal experance here. I ran a unit of 6 bikers in my EC list and originally had plasma. Once you loose a few 30+ point model to plasma overheat you will rip those suckers off too.

The unit works great, has survivability and can get you a down field summoning spot.

It would probably work better with raptors. Less mobile, but a ton cheaper.

Bikers are too expensive at 33 points. That's why you hardly ever see them. Best avoided imo

Crimson-King2120 wrote:It will probably come up to 500 +

Right, and this is the reason not to do it. I highly doubt you'll ever get 500 points worth of usefulness out of this squad. As others have mentioned, if you really, really want that extra mobility, and aren't willing to take a winged lash prince to get it, you're better off with raptors, or throwing him in with a squad that's already in a land raider.

If you take off the Powerfists, the squads come out to 195 points per, which isn't so hard to make up. Powerfists are only useful over multiple rounds of combat, so 5 models won't find it useful.

I used to run a small squad of 4 or 5 Slaaneshi Bikers with 2 Meltaguns (though I'm seriously considering Plas when I refurbish them). The idea was that they'd engage weakened squads, firing TL-Bolters before assaulting at I5 to deal damage before the enemy could swing, making up for their small size. They usually eat 100 points of enemy at a time. I think plasma would work better than melta for the extra shot against infantry, which are their primary target. Plus they retain roughly the same output against transports.

I like CSM bikes too, I feel your pain dude. But they are just too expensive. So far I think they could be useful in a min size squad of 3 with a meltagun. Turboboost around, get into a good position, and if someone takes some shots then at least they waste some shots, it is just annoying, or use them as bait, and there's always the chance they could win you the game by contesting or taking out a dread or something. And don't try nurgle bikers either I know T6 sounds scary but trust me they are a point sink. It's a decent choice compared to 3 combimelta termies that probly will die but might take out a vehicle as well. No?

5 loyalist bikers with 2 Plasmaguns are 170 points. Our bikers come out to 195 points. While we're 5 points more expensive per model, we're also a whole lot better in combat. I agree that the difference should be closer to 3 or maybe 2 points, but it isn't unplayable by a long shot.

Also 3 man squads with 2 Meltaguns is much better than Termicide for only 15 points more. That'll free up Elite slots for Dreadnoughts to boost your target saturation.

Plasma is no good on bikes, especially overpriced chaos ones.

Raptors tend to work better for the idea you are trying, lash um toward you and crush them.

The chaos bikes work best as mentioned, small squads with meltaguns zipping around the field keeping your other slots open. Large squads are possible, but not really worth it in the long run.

The problem with bikers or raptors is 10 CSM in a rhino are cheaper, more effective, and more survivable, while being almost as mobile. And Berzerkers or Plague marines even better still.

If you could take real cult bikers, or if bikers were only about 10 points more than a normal marine they might be worth taking. But with just icons and their super high point cost they just aren't worth it.

Don't loyalists only field bikers to get attack bikes? And don't even normally field those as the land speeders are usually a better option?

Kevlar wrote:The problem with bikers or raptors is 10 CSM in a rhino are cheaper, more effective, and more survivable, while being almost as mobile. And Berzerkers or Plague marines even better still.

If you could take real cult bikers, or if bikers were only about 10 points more than a normal marine they might be worth taking. But with just icons and their super high point cost they just aren't worth it.

Don't loyalists only field bikers to get attack bikes? And don't even normally field those as the land speeders are usually a better option?

10 CSM in a rhino w/meltas is 200 pts if not more. They have the same 2 meltaguns. They are a larger target and have one turn cover save, so are not necessarily more survivable against anti-tank. bikes are smaller, can go more distance and shoot, can get behind obstacles to deny LOS, and it is mostly about baiting the enemy and being annoying in general. But only the 3-man option. It's not incredible, but you can at least use it. They do have greater speed on a turboboost than anything CSM can field. Correct me if i am wrong.

I've seen marine bike armies, but only loyalist ones. Does Chaos really have any rules or points costs that make a Chaos version preferable?

Clang wrote:I've seen marine bike armies, but only loyalist ones. Does Chaos really have any rules or points costs that make a Chaos version preferable?

No. That's why you never see it.

closest thing to it is the hounds of huron apoc formation. but that's not really an army.

Rbb wrote:

Clang wrote:I've seen marine bike armies, but only loyalist ones. Does Chaos really have any rules or points costs that make a Chaos version preferable?

No. That's why you never see it.

Well, CSM do get +1 Attack. That's the difference between being useful in close combat and not, and such a mobile platform that is extremely valuable.

I agree with darkhound in terms of points and uses - If I had a choice between a 2000 point biker CSM army and 2000 point Chaos daemons, I'd take the daemons anyday