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Hey Guys, I had the Dark Eldar codex on hand and I decided to write a list, I decided to go for a 1750 list as that is the points value both my friends and other 40k gamers play at my FLGS. I'm not a fan of MSU spam and i like the idea of 10 Warriors in a raider so this is not something that i would change, however i am open to your opinions on the rest of the list, all comments are welcome.

HQ:

Duke Sliscus 150

Troops:

10 Kabalite Warriors 185
Blaster, Splinter Cannon, Raider Flickerfield

10 Kabalite Warriors 185
Blaster, Splinter Cannon, Raider Flickerfield

10 Kabalite Warriors 185
Blaster, Splinter Cannon, Raider Flickerfield

10 Kabalite Warriors 185
Blaster, Splinter Cannon, Raider Flickerfield

Elites:

7 Kabalite Trueborn 204 (With Sliscus)
2 Splinter Cannons, 5 Shardcarbines, Raider, Flickerfield, Enhanced Eithersails (Points Filler)

4 Kabalite Trueborn 173
Blasters, Venom, Extra Splinter Cannon

4 Kabalite Trueborn 173
Blasters, Venom, Extra Splinter Cannon

Heavy Support:

Razorwing Jetfighter 155
Flickerfield

Razorwing Jetfighter 155
Flickerfield

1750/1750

Dark Eldar list with no Ravagers is not even semi-competitive So far You have only 4 long-range Anti-tank weapons (Dark Lances on Raiders), so that is ~ 1,5 dead Rhino per turn.
Also, You have absolutely 0 CC specialists, which is quite a shame for Dark Eldar. One full unit of Witches with Hekatrix could remedy this flaw - at least partially.

CainTheHunter wrote:Dark Eldar list with no Ravagers is not even semi-competitive So far You have only 4 long-range Anti-tank weapons (Dark Lances on Raiders), so that is ~ 1,5 dead Rhino per turn.
Also, You have absolutely 0 CC specialists, which is quite a shame for Dark Eldar. One full unit of Witches with Hekatrix could remedy this flaw - at least partially.

I wouldn't mind adding in Ravagers but I like the Razorwing model, the Razorwing itself is capable of taking out tanks with 2 Dark Lances Each and they will be quite Versatile, but I agree with what you are saying, the problem is i think i will really suffer against Nid horde if i take out the large pie plates, I would also like a unit of Incubi and i guess i wound do this by taking out Sliscus and his unit, but would do you reccommend?

Well, for semi-competitive in HS choice it is usually 2 Ravagers and Razorwing (but some people criticize even than). There is a difference in fact if You are shooting with 2 DL or 3 DL. Since You are doing 1750 list, then Incubi is quite a viable choice.

You could start with proxying 4 of them with an Archon with Agoniser and splinter pistol AND Phantasm Grenade Launcher (Incubi have no grenades whatsoever) in a Venom to see how they perform. The tricky part here is that too many Incubi will wipe out units and get exposed in the open, so You have to figure out if they are better in small numbers in Venom or slightly bigger (5-7) with Archon in Raider. But anyway - at least one unit of Wyches in a Raider is a must.

CainTheHunter wrote:Dark Eldar list with no Ravagers is not even semi-competitive So far You have only 4 long-range Anti-tank weapons (Dark Lances on Raiders)

I think you'll find there's 9. 2 on each Rwing and 5 Raiders, not 4. That said, 9 is still quite light, but it should be passable. The lack of CC units isn't a massive problem, DE do do combat well, but its not absolutely essential for the list to work.


That said, I think it would be more cost effective to take 3 Ravagers over the 2 Razorwings. If you can find the extra points (cut down 1 trueborn squad maybe?) then I think the Ravagers would be a better choice. Razors are hard to get cover with and are really easy to pop even without being open topped, and each Razor that does go down isn't exactly cheap.

The only other think is that you're not taking advantage of Duke's combat drug rule, I know that the 3+ poison is his biggest seling point, but maybe consider taking at least something to take advantage of that?

Gorechild wrote:

CainTheHunter wrote:Dark Eldar list with no Ravagers is not even semi-competitive So far You have only 4 long-range Anti-tank weapons (Dark Lances on Raiders)

I think you'll find there's 9. 2 on each Rwing and 5 Raiders, not 4. That said, 9 is still quite light, but it should be passable. The lack of CC units isn't a massive problem, DE do do combat well, but its not absolutely essential for the list to work.

True, I just modelled my Razor with disintegrators, so that I'd not face the dilemma, what to do - shoot AT or AI, and forgot that they as a basis come with DL.
IMO Razorwings are made to be antiinfantry and should be used as such.

Gorechild wrote:

CainTheHunter wrote:Dark Eldar list with no Ravagers is not even semi-competitive So far You have only 4 long-range Anti-tank weapons (Dark Lances on Raiders)

I think you'll find there's 9. 2 on each Rwing and 5 Raiders, not 4. That said, 9 is still quite light, but it should be passable. The lack of CC units isn't a massive problem, DE do do combat well, but its not absolutely essential for the list to work.


That said, I think it would be more cost effective to take 3 Ravagers over the 2 Razorwings. If you can find the extra points (cut down 1 trueborn squad maybe?) then I think the Ravagers would be a better choice. Razors are hard to get cover with and are really easy to pop even without being open topped, and each Razor that does go down isn't exactly cheap.

The only other think is that you're not taking advantage of Duke's combat drug rule, I know that the 3+ poison is his biggest seling point, but maybe consider taking at least something to take advantage of that?

Meh, i'm not a fan of Wyches, I prefer Warriors every time, but if i were to take a CC unit, it would defo be Incubi , Maybe by dropping Sliscus and taking a standard Archon and then dropping his Trueborn unit and taking Incubi then i may have the points for 3 Ravagers, the problem is i do love the Razorwing model and it's one of the reasons i would do Dark Eldar if I ever did.

CainTheHunter wrote:True, I just modelled my Razor with disintegrators, so that I'd not face the dilemma, what to do - shoot AT or AI, and forgot that they as a basis come with DL.
IMO Razorwings are made to be antiinfantry and should be used as such.

But i'd like to keep my options open, the anti tank option there against the mech lists and it keeps the razorwing versatile.

Anyway, What do you think about dropping Sliscus and his unit and getting a more CC orientated unit?

I run warriors in raiders too, you want to add night shields and splinter racks, that way your opponents standard troops are usually just out of range to shoot back and you get re-rolls

kitch102 wrote:I run warriors in raiders too, you want to add night shields and splinter racks, that way your opponents standard troops are usually just out of range to shoot back and you get re-rolls

Good plan,hoepefully i can do this with the points i get spare, do you think the Razorwing choices really hurt thhe list or can it still be semi competitive with the changes i will make?

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:do you think the Razorwing choices really hurt the list or can it still be semi competitive with the changes i will make?

If your looking to drop the Duke and his squad I reckon you could still make a decent list with 1 Razorwing if you really like them.

509 points (from duke, squad, transport and 1 Rwing) could get you 2 Rav's with FFields, 4 Incubi in a Venom and 116 points worth of Archon. If you keep him cheap (agoniser + PGL) then you might have some spare points for those vehicle upgrades Kitch mentioned, if not, you could get a blast pistol on the Archon just for another backup.

Gorechild wrote:

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:do you think the Razorwing choices really hurt the list or can it still be semi competitive with the changes i will make?

If your looking to drop the Duke and his squad I reckon you could still make a decent list with 1 Razorwing if you really like them.

509 points (from duke, squad, transport and 1 Rwing) could get you 2 Rav's with FFields, 4 Incubi in a Venom and 116 points worth of Archon. If you keep him cheap (agoniser + PGL) then you might have some spare points for those vehicle upgrades Kitch mentioned, if not, you could get a blast pistol on the Archon just for another backup.

New List:

HQ:

Archon 150
Blast Pistol, Agoniser, Shadowfield, Grenade Launcher

Troops:

10 Kabalite Warriors 185
Blaster, Splinter Cannon, Raider Flickerfield

10 Kabalite Warriors 185
Blaster, Splinter Cannon, Raider Flickerfield

10 Kabalite Warriors 185
Blaster, Splinter Cannon, Raider Flickerfield

10 Kabalite Warriors 185
Blaster, Splinter Cannon, Raider Flickerfield

Elites:

6 Incubi 202
Raider, Flickerfield

4 Kabalite Trueborn 173
Blasters, Venom, Extra Splinter Cannon

4 Kabalite Trueborn 173
Blasters, Venom, Extra Splinter Cannon

Heavy Support:

Razorwing Jetfighter 155
Flickerfield

Razorwing Jetfighter 155
Flickerfield

1748/1750

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:

kitch102 wrote:I run warriors in raiders too, you want to add night shields and splinter racks, that way your opponents standard troops are usually just out of range to shoot back and you get re-rolls

Good plan,hoepefully i can do this with the points i get spare, do you think the Razorwing choices really hurt thhe list or can it still be semi competitive with the changes i will make?

I don't think the razorwing's hurt the list, they're just more AI than AT. Ravagers are definitely your best AT choice (disregarding Vect's limo) but then it's personal choice. I personally don't like the raider / ravager chassis, I find it to be a pain to build, so I don't have any Ravagers. But then I have not had a single proper game so take my advice with a pinch of someone elses common sense!

You have 11 dark light shots per turn currently, yes you can get more for this points level, but then I think it comes down to personal taste and the tactics that you use to prevent them getting shot down.

Just play taste with someone and find out what works best for you.

The only problem you might find with a squad of 6 Incubi + Archon is (as CainTheHunter mentioned) is that you're too good at wiping out standard MEQ units. If you wipe a squad as soon as you charge you'll have to face a turn of enemy shooting out in the open.

5 is normally the golden number in my experience, 7 might hit a little too hard!

Gorechild wrote:The only problem you might find with a squad of 6 Incubi + Archon is (as CainTheHunter mentioned) is that you're too good at wiping out standard MEQ units. If you wipe a squad as soon as you charge you'll have to face a turn of enemy shooting out in the open.

5 is normally the golden number in my experience, 7 might hit a little too hard!

Yeah I guess you're right, but i don't really want lots of MSU units, i would like a bigger unit but i'm not a fan of wyches, what about a splinter spam squad with sliscus, like the one i had at first, is there any way to make that more effective? Also i'm open to CC units, what would you reccomend?

Why You are not a fan of wyches? See, when I started building my DE army, I decided that I will go with Kabal lists and there will be no wyches in my army, cause I don't like them. Then, one day I looked at them (after seeing that in 1000 points Incubi is too expensive to field) and saw their potential. They are not killers as Incubi, but they are great tarpit unit. Take 9 of them with Hekattrix (agoniser), one wych weapon (I take shardnet) and Haemonculus in a Raider, then split Haemie and give the pain token to wyches and You get a unit with 4++ invul save in CC which is further enhanced by 4+ Feel No Pain save. Sure they are elves with S3 and T3, but they are basically an agoniser delivery system for Hekatrix - she is not an indep and cannot be targeted. She will do the killing, while wyches will provide extra wounds. They have all grenades they will ever need and if given haywires, they can multicharge and take out a wall of armored transports. Plus, they are troops and can be scoring. That's how I started to love wyches.

CainTheHunter wrote:Why You are not a fan of wyches? See, when I started building my DE army, I decided that I will go with Kabal lists and there will be no wyches in my army, cause I don't like them. Then, one day I looked at them (after seeing that in 1000 points Incubi is too expensive to field) and saw their potential. They are not killers as Incubi, but they are great tarpit unit. Take 9 of them with Hekattrix (agoniser), one wych weapon (I take shardnet) and Haemonculus in a Raider, then split Haemie and give the pain token to wyches and You get a unit with 4++ invul save in CC which is further enhanced by 4+ Feel No Pain save. Sure they are elves with S3 and T3, but they are basically an agoniser delivery system for Hekatrix - she is not an indep and cannot be targeted. She will do the killing, while wyches will provide extra wounds. They have all grenades they will ever need and if given haywires, they can multicharge and take out a wall of armored transports. Plus, they are troops and can be scoring. That's how I started to love wyches.

I prefer a list that can do more damage at a range and they seem to fragile for me, i'm not into a tarpit unit as I prefer units that are both durable and can pack-a-punch of their own. I see the wych Haemon build and that's really the only way to run them and I don't want a haemon in my army.

Don't get me wrong, I understand how good wyches can be, but i'm not a fan, that's why this list is mainly semi competitive as I want models that appeal to me but the list can still be effective, to be fair, incubi could do the same job as wyches put instead of tarpitting a smaller unit they just kill them, I could just try that unit and if they are too much overkill i can switch, but this is something that is really troubling me. It's so hard to choose!

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote: I prefer a list that can do more damage at a range and they seem to fragile for me, i'm not into a tarpit unit as I prefer units that are both durable and can pack-a-punch of their own. I see the wych Haemon build and that's really the only way to run them and I don't want a haemon in my army.

You are playing DE and not using wyches for them being too fragile??? Oh, You will be surprised to see how durable all those Raiders and Venoms actually are . Not speaking about Kabalite Warriors in CC I remember on Asrai.org one new member complained that he dumped High Elves, because they were too fragile and switched to Wood Elves instead LOL.
And You are right, if You will ever run them, do it with Haemie. Actually he is quite good as well with liquified or shattershard. Basically a cheap pain token, which should remain in Raider, when wyches disembark. I see that You are into shooting - my first attemps were similar as well - but on the gaming table it usually don't go that well, unless You play Leafblower IG and are good at it

CainTheHunter wrote:

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote: I prefer a list that can do more damage at a range and they seem to fragile for me, i'm not into a tarpit unit as I prefer units that are both durable and can pack-a-punch of their own. I see the wych Haemon build and that's really the only way to run them and I don't want a haemon in my army.

You are playing DE and not using wyches for them being too fragile??? Oh, You will be surprised to see how durable all those Raiders and Venoms actually are . Not speaking about Kabalite Warriors in CC I remember on Asrai.org one new member complained that he dumped High Elves, because they were too fragile and switched to Wood Elves instead LOL.
And You are right, if You will ever run them, do it with Haemie. Actually he is quite good as well with liquified or shattershard. Basically a cheap pain token, which should remain in Raider, when wyches disembark. I see that You are into shooting - my first attemps were similar as well - but on the gaming table it usually don't go that well, unless You play Leafblower IG and are good at it

I know how Dark Eldar work and against my Tau and Chaos their raiders have proved pretty durable, it's hard to get lots of damage with those armies as Dark Eldar can outmanoeuver them easily, it's not all about AV, it's about movement and tactics, even if a raider hits the dirt it's not the end of the world, they've only got rid of 1 Dark Lance and Dark Eldar can outfire most armies at a range it does reduce manoeverability for the unit but they can then focus on hiding on an objective., Nids have to swamp them and Orks really suffer.

I know you want to max out on Dark Matter Weaponry, and i've tried my best to keep as many as i can in the list whilst taking the stuff i like, whilst i know how to play against and their main tactics though, i will still need to learn a lot playing with them myself and what will work and what won't, but what I can say is i would like a unit of incubi rather than wyches, don't ask me why, i just don't like them!

Thanks for your help though

Better alternative cc solution: wracks.

9 in a raider with a haemy. Liquifier and agoniser on the haemy, liquifier in a wrack, upgrade 1 to an acothyst and give him an agoniser too and you're away. That's 10 guys with fnp and furious charge for (someone correct me if I'm wrong here, no dex to hand) 24 s4 poisoned cc attacks, of which 4 or 5 are power weapons that wound on a 4+, and that's before charge bonuses. Those liquifiers will do a nice job of softening things up pre cc too.

Then add torment grenade launchers and grizzly trophies to your raider, keep it close to the combat, and the modifiers will really help to ensure that you can win combat or consolidate out of the open / whatever. Plus its not often seen I don't think.

And its not wyches!

I know you said you don't want a haemy but i had to put this forward, if only so I can check it out for myself again in the morning!

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned beasts yet. A 158 point squad with 28 wounds, enough 4+ invlnerables and a tonne of rending attacks. If you want a durable CC unit I think beasts, point for point, are the most effective.

If you're not an idiot (like I am ) and convert other models rather than buying the uber expensive ones, you can get a unit together in no time.

That would leave you having to sort out your HQ again though, but I guess you could just drop 1 warrior for Duke.

Good point, I've not run the beasty boys as I don't like the miniatures, and as such keep forgetting about them!

What beasts do you prefer to use?

I always run 3 Masters, 5 Khymera and 4 Razorwing Flocks. Sometimes with the Baron tagging along.

Use the Khymera and their 4+ Inv to eat up any S6+ attacks (to avoid ID on the flocks) and absorb all the small arms fire on the flocks. They take a ridiculous amount of firepower to bring down considering how cheap they are.

Kitch, If you really don't like the models I'd suggest proxying them for a game or two. If you like them then theres tonnes of other models you can use to convert some that are more to your taste. I rate them, alongside Haemonculi, Venoms and Ravagers as the best units in the codex.

I don't mind the beastmasters so much, it's more the monopose beasts themselves that I think need a little more variety...

I might be tempted by a clawed fiend just to test out my gs skill... see what we can achieve through a repose.

Sorry for taking the OP's thread OT, but do you think you could post or PM me your army list Gorechild? I'd be interested in seeing what you run them in.

Cheers

I will try a 4 Man Incubi Unit with the Archon, but how should i fill in the rest of the points, if it doesn't work i wouldn't mind using Hekatrix Bloodbrides, what about them seeing as they haven't been mentioned?

How many points will you have to play with?

get a ravager in this list.

kitch102 wrote:How many points will you have to play with?

Dropping 44 Points from the Incubi Squad then taking another 5 for the Venom gives me 49 points to play with, any ideas?

I don't have my dex to hand but maybe look at beastmasters? What do you fight against most?

kitch102 wrote:I don't have my dex to hand but maybe look at beastmasters? What do you fight against most?

Space Wolves with those friggin anoying wolf standards Dark Eldar, Tyranids, i don't have a Dark Eldar army yet this is just an experimental list but those are the armies i fight against most with my GKs and Tau

49 points isn't really enough to get another unit on the board so I'd suggest just going for upgrades.

As you know I dont really play Warrior heavy DE so I'm not too certain how handy Splinter racks would be, but it might be worth considering them. 1 thing I'd definitely take would be drugs on the Archon, they're cheap, 5/6 times it will give you a bonus that will be handy (3D6 run is pointless if he's in a unit) and from time to time the Incubi will get to start with a pain token