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Hi all,

I've followed the Finecast situation from a distance. I think the well-produced models look nice. The main message seems to have been that the fail rate is high, but that GW replace with a minimum of fuss.

A different experience from my brother today, which I thought I'd ask about. Apologies if this is nothing new - I haven't read every post in the 74 page thread.

He received a LOTR monster as a gift, and picked up two problems - the pieces were warped and wouldn't fit, and some of the detail had been lost. He was passing the store and went in to ask about returning it (didn't have the model to hand).

The redshirt told him that they would only replace the model if he had taken all reasonable steps to assemble it, including putting the model in hot water and bending it into shape. He was quite firm about this, even when my brother argued that the model was expensive enough to warrant a perfect fit first time, and it wasn't his job to be making up for their poor product.

In addition, the redshirt suggested he use green stuff to re-sculpt some of the lost detail. My brother was unimpressed, pointing out that if he wanted to build from scratch, he'd do the whole model. Luckily, he is pre-warned as to what he needs to say when he returns it.

Leaving aside the impossibility of proving this, has anyone come across a similar policy?

Ludo

The redshirt's taking bollocks, why should your brother have to spend money trying to repair a product which he expected to be in good condition considering how much money he actually spent on it. I would consider writing to someone higher about that situation, as I've only heard of it once or twice before on here, so it's probably an arbitary policy.

I've had similar issues recently.

I bought a Finecrapst Draigo and Librarian to get my Draigowing off the ground. The Librarian's shoulder was messed up and missing detail, and there was more than one spot that you could literally see through on the models thinner parts. When I called about a replacement I dealt directly with the US customer service rep supervisor and let me tell you, he is a real prick.

After going up the chain, and eventually speaking with the regional director, they demanded that I ship the models back at my expense and wait for replacements, even though I'd already waited two weeks to get them from my FLGS this was not enough, I was expected to wait another week+ for shipping and inspection on their end.

This finecrapst shenanigans is a bunch of bull. I'm very tired of poor quality when I'm dropping $25+ for a single piece, it should be right the first time.

I have since decided that I will no longer buy new from Games Workshop. I will purchase every model second hand from now on. It's not with the head ache to give them the money for new.

Paul

If it's not satisfactory, or fit for the purpose for which it is sold (the best model soldiers in the world!) you are entitled to a replacement or a refund. This is part of your statutory rights as outlined in the 1974 Sale of Goods Act.

Edit: To all: I'd suggest refraining from using terms like 'Finecrapst', 'Failcast' etc. Those terms don't help in terms of what happens when you put 'Finecast' into google, or in terms of making your comment look reasoned and logical. Call it what it is, so that when people look for it they can see all these comments.

Until my last call to GW in regards to the failcast models, I have had not problems with getting the warped, chipped, generally F'ed up model replaced. Except for the fact that they will only replace the model with the same copy. But a couple days ago I called the customer service number to try and resolve the issue of my thunderwolf lords wolf's head being so miss shapen that I had to measure it, and the top half of the head hung over the right side of the jaw an eighth of an inch!! WTF?? Anyways, in the past it's been 'sure which part is ____, okay we'll send you a replacement. What's your address'. But this time I got a similar run around to the circus hoop act your brother did. I was asked where I bought it, the serial number, if I had attempted to bend the model using hot water of a hair dryer (seriously, GW guy. Are you even listening to me??), or attempted to GS it. I told him that for $45 I shouldn't have to do those things to a model, and that paying premium prices for sub-par models was mind boggling!! He replied that they would be happy to replace the model, and after nearly five minutes of back and forth with this guy he still didn't get the point that I DON:T WANT ANOTHER F'ED UP MODEL!!!!!! /rant.

Anyways, I called the shop I purchased the kit from and told them the situation. They said they would gladly allow me to return the model for a refund in store credit. Which I will do.
I guess that's the best part of my story, unless I find five dollars...

End of Line

US consumer law is different to UK consumer law, so it is difficult to take examples from one country and apply them in the other.

Could someone expand on US consumer law? I've heard the UK one quoted a few times, but haven't heard about any equivalent legislation from the States.

I believe it varies by state but the universal rule is that a defective product is returnable/refundable regardless of company policy.

I agree with what has been said...we shouldn't have to fix these pieces but I'd refrain from making that point with CS, just play their little game: hot water, did that; greenstuff...well "I'm just not a sculptor". I had to do the same and got a replacement without sending my item back.

winterdyne wrote:To all: I'd suggest refraining from using terms like 'Finecrapst', 'Failcast' etc. Those terms don't help in terms of what happens when you put 'Finecast' into google, or in terms of making your comment look reasoned and logical. Call it what it is, so that when people look for it they can see all these comments.

So the term Failcost really is appropos then.

I mean, if we are to call it what it really is.

I cracked open a Dante in store the other day, and he was only slightly messed up. A few bubbles on obvious spots, lost detailing on the axe, and I got a replacement on the spot. Amusingly, the replacement had been in a Death Jester blister. There was no real fuss, I just wonder how irritating it would've been for something bigger. I'm fortunate to work like two minutes away from the GW, so I can just open it right there and ask for the replacement on miscast.

Winterdyne: We are not all as talented and gifted as you are when it comes to doctoring up a model that we pay for (I could not do to that Cptn Stern what you did. He looks great now!! ). I'm not trying to cause a scene, but when you say call it what is is, I am. In my opinion, the Finecast line has become a joke within itself, and we as the consumer can only be dupped for so long before we deserve recognition from the company we are giving our money to. When I refer to the line as 'Failcast' I do it in hopes that it becomes another signal to GW that we are dissatisfied with their product. When I call and talk to the CS rep, he obviously gives a rats ass about it. In fact I bet he is as fed up with hearing about it as we are having to buying it.

End of Line

doctorludo wrote:Hi all,

I've followed the Finecast situation from a distance. I think the well-produced models look nice. The main message seems to have been that the fail rate is high, but that GW replace with a minimum of fuss.

A different experience from my brother today, which I thought I'd ask about. Apologies if this is nothing new - I haven't read every post in the 74 page thread.

He received a LOTR monster as a gift, and picked up two problems - the pieces were warped and wouldn't fit, and some of the detail had been lost. He was passing the store and went in to ask about returning it (didn't have the model to hand).

The redshirt told him that they would only replace the model if he had taken all reasonable steps to assemble it, including putting the model in hot water and bending it into shape. He was quite firm about this, even when my brother argued that the model was expensive enough to warrant a perfect fit first time, and it wasn't his job to be making up for their poor product.

In addition, the redshirt suggested he use green stuff to re-sculpt some of the lost detail. My brother was unimpressed, pointing out that if he wanted to build from scratch, he'd do the whole model. Luckily, he is pre-warned as to what he needs to say when he returns it.

Leaving aside the impossibility of proving this, has anyone come across a similar policy?

Ludo

I am pretty shure that that is straight up illegal there. If you get a defective product you are entitled to exchange it for one that is not or get a full refund. I am pretty shure that your trade complaints thingy (for the life of me I can't remember the name) would love to know about this.

Don't let GW bully you are which IMHO seems like they are doing. If GW is playing customer return shenanigans now that is just shameful and the last redeeming quality of Games Workshop will be gone in my eyes. I guess the glut of returns is finally starting to hit the bottom line.

coyotius wrote:
I agree with what has been said...we shouldn't have to fix these pieces but I'd refrain from making that point with CS, just play their little game: hot water, did that; greenstuff...well "I'm just not a sculptor". I had to do the same and got a replacement without sending my item back.

This. If they are being a PITA treat them like Dave in technical support in Mumbai. "yes i turned it on and off" "yes i re-installed" "yes i tryed to bend it in hot water". Its much easyer to do that than argue. Keep sending back and demanding a better product. The idea that you should re-sculpt details is stupid.

winterdyne wrote:
Edit: To all: I'd suggest refraining from using terms like 'Finecrapst', 'Failcast' etc. Those terms don't help in terms of what happens when you put 'Finecast' into google, or in terms of making your comment look reasoned and logical. Call it what it is, so that when people look for it they can see all these comments.

Plus you get instantly ignored by a lot of people on here for using those terms.

The op just had one dodgy GW worker, doesn't mean company policy has changed.

As far as I know, people who have bought Finecast models that have been a a misscast got replacements as soon as they brought the model back to the storeI know, otherwise someone would have put a massive complaint all over their facebook page

Rhapsody wrote:Winterdyne: We are not all as talented and gifted as you are when it comes to doctoring up a model that we pay for (I could not do to that Cptn Stern what you did. He looks great now!! ). I'm not trying to cause a scene, but when you say call it what is is, I am. In my opinion, the Finecast line has become a joke within itself, and we as the consumer can only be dupped for so long before we deserve recognition from the company we are giving our money to. When I refer to the line as 'Failcast' I do it in hopes that it becomes another signal to GW that we are dissatisfied with their product. When I call and talk to the CS rep, he obviously gives a rats ass about it. In fact I bet he is as fed up with hearing about it as we are having to buying it.

End of Line

I actually think the point he was trying to make (and feel free to correct me if I am wrong) is that if the word finecast is used when making these complaints then when people search they will find the complaints. If finecrap or failcast is used threads such as this complaining about the quality wont be found during legitimate searches.

carlos13th wrote:

Rhapsody wrote:Winterdyne: We are not all as talented and gifted as you are when it comes to doctoring up a model that we pay for (I could not do to that Cptn Stern what you did. He looks great now!! ). I'm not trying to cause a scene, but when you say call it what is is, I am. In my opinion, the Finecast line has become a joke within itself, and we as the consumer can only be dupped for so long before we deserve recognition from the company we are giving our money to. When I refer to the line as 'Failcast' I do it in hopes that it becomes another signal to GW that we are dissatisfied with their product. When I call and talk to the CS rep, he obviously gives a rats ass about it. In fact I bet he is as fed up with hearing about it as we are having to buying it.

End of Line

I actually think the point he was trying to make (and feel free to correct me if I am wrong) is that if the word finecast is used when making these complaints then when people search they will find the complaints. If finecrap or failcast is used threads such as this complaining about the quality wont be found during legitimate searches.

This.

FINECAST FINECAST FINECAST FINECAST.

C'mon Google, push those complaint threads a little further up! On a related note, for the same reasons wouldn't it be pertinent to change the title of the mega thread in this same forum?

My problem is that it feels patently false to call something "Finecast" when it is neither "fine" and is barely "cast". It is like the worse Orwellian doublespeak. Insisting on calling it "Finecast" is also bowing to the marketing. That marketing strategy which seems to consist of calling crap a diamond so often that people start to believe it.

I'm not surprised in the least that customer service is pushing back. That whole fit for use or "defect" thing? These are not defects. You and me and all of us that are displeased have unreasonable expectations. These are toys intended to be used on a tabletop. Can you recognize it from 3 feet away? Yes? Then it is perfectly fine. "Fine".

Anyone wanting more than that has unreasonable expectations above and beyond the intended use of the product. GW is training us to re-set our expectations of quality. Either you accept that this is the new standard, or go somewhere else. GW HHHobbiests are perfectly fine with this as the "best". If you are not, then you are not a part of the GW HHHobby.

Also, there are no consistent laws about returns in the US. In fact, I only know for sure about the California "lemon law", and that only applies to specific circumstances on purchase of a vehicle. If you enter a warranty contract, that is something else entirely. The only consistency is that companies allow returns for competitive reasons. They also reserve the right to refuse returns. If you don't like it, take them to small claims court.

Gymnogyps wrote:My problem is that it feels patently false to call something "Finecast" when it is neither "fine" and is barely "cast". It is like the worse Orwellian doublespeak. Insisting on calling it "Finecast" is also bowing to the marketing. That marketing strategy which seems to consist of calling crap a diamond so often that people start to believe it.

As much as I despise the actual name of the product and what it represents (I prefer to use the other names too) I have to bite my tongue and call it by it's proper name for the greater good of little Timmy's mum by the bucketload stumbling on these types of threads via Google. The more we call it by it's proper name, the more it'll get pushed ot the top in Google searches, thus making those abominations of casts visble to a more, "persuasive" audience in that of irate parents that hopefully GW cannot afford to ignore.

Carlos13th gets what I meant. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

Using spurious naming for the product line isn't clever in any sense (and not even funny the with Micro$oft etc). The point is exactly that if someone searches for 'Finecast' then the ugly truth should out. Someone shouldn't have to search for 'Finecost'',. 'Failcrap', 'Fartcast', etc to see your opinion. It should be where it matters, attached to Finecast as a brand. Especially if you feel strongly about it. This said, be prepared to say something is good when it is - otherwise any attempt to repair the brand is pointless and it would simply be renamed rather than revamped. Think of it as reverse SEO (Search Engine Optimisation). If all those spiderbot searches for 'Finecast' hit nasty reviews, comments or opinions, or 100+ page threads on forums, what do you think will show up in google, right underneath the sponsored links? Label your thread or opinion 'Finecrap' and it'll be less likely to be hit (unless people keep using the word 'Finecast' in it). Plus it just makes you sound like an angry, and somewhat unimaginative teenager. Sorry, but it's true. You lose credibility for the gaffe, no matter how much you believe it.

winterdyne wrote: If all those spiderbot searches for 'Finecast' hit nasty reviews, comments or opinions, or 100+ page threads on forums, what do you think will show up in google, right underneath the sponsored links? Label your thread or opinion 'Finecrap' and it'll be less likely to be hit (unless people keep using the word 'Finecast' in it). Plus it just makes you sound like an angry, and somewhat unimaginative teenager. Sorry, but it's true. You lose credibility for the gaffe, no matter how much you believe it.

Then we need to rename the mega thread. It's currently called "more finecrapst shenanigans". That little "p" is blocking a lot of Google search harvesting thingies.

Gymnogyps wrote:My problem is that it feels patently false to call something "Finecast" when it is neither "fine" and is barely "cast". It is like the worse Orwellian doublespeak. Insisting on calling it "Finecast" is also bowing to the marketing. That marketing strategy which seems to consist of calling crap a diamond so often that people start to believe it.

Calling it finecast allows it to be displayed whenever someone searches for finecast on a search engine - so that someone new to the world of finecast is more likely to be able to discover the pitfalls of finecast, rather than miss the fuss about "failcost", or "finecrap", etc.

If you were looking for a new car and liked the look of the new "megacar" which is being touted as the best thing since sliced bread by the manufacturer, but all the reviewers are talking about the "megacrap" and how awful it is, how are you going to know if those reviews are not being caught by the search engine because the word "megacar" is not being used in the review?

Edit: Ninja'd muchly

Dysartes wrote:Could someone expand on US consumer law? I've heard the UK one quoted a few times, but haven't heard about any equivalent legislation from the States.

In the us its by state, so we have 50 different sets of consumer law for most things.

Gymnogyps wrote:My problem is that it feels patently false to call something "Finecast" when it is neither "fine" and is barely "cast". It is like the worse Orwellian doublespeak. Insisting on calling it "Finecast" is also bowing to the marketing.

But that is what the brand is called however misleading the brand name is. Its better to attach the truth to the brand name so that everyone knows what they are getting themselves into, calling it by its name leaves no ambiguity as to the product you are complaining about.

If I was going to write an book about how Alexander the great was a dick and was anything but great (I have no opinion on this btw just an example.) I would still refer to him as Alexander the great however undeserving I thought that name was as that's what people know him as. Wow that was an awful example but I haven't slept properly in weeks so it will have to suffice.

I did indeed misunderstand what was being said, for that I apologize. My feelings on Finecast however have not wavered, nor do I foresee them doing so in the near future (baring the re-invention of the line all together).

I am completely behind the finecast line getting the poor press seen it deserves seen by as many people as possible.

As for people not taking me seriously because I refer to the line by a moniker, that's . When anybody refers to it by another name, you still know what that person is talking about, and whether or not you agree with the statement they have made, you are still more likely than not to respond to it. I feel like that really is irrelevant.

The point here is that I have been looking at this all wrong, and because of my desire to alert people to this poor quality product I am going to refer to the line as it is called, Alexander, the Dick. Although it will be be begrudgingly...

I am unsure of the laws regarding returns here in Oregon. Off to find out.

End of Line

I purchased a finecast model that had extensive bubbling and areas with slices missing plus a missing part on thursday. I called US CS friday morning and talked to a british sounding man who was very nice and said they'd send me a new one and that I didn't have to send in the one I bought. The only thing he asked aside from my name/address was where I purchased the model.

doctorludo wrote: He was passing the store and went in to ask about returning it.

This was your first mistake. One time I got one of the old metal Chaos Terminators as a present, except it didn't come with a head. So I went to my local GW (and as "luck" would have it, the normal cool guy who runs the store was on vacation so I got some scrub) and the red-shirt told me that I couldn't return the model for some weird-ass reason.

He just ended up giving me a Chaos Space Marine head.

In the future, just call the GW customer service.

Kind Regards,
Vladsimpaler

So they won't take it back unless all reasonable steps have been made to construct it, including hot water to bend warped parts.

So what about missing detail? Should I water the missing detail in the hope it comes back? When did Finecost models turn into Chia Pets?

The impression I am getting from the OP and a couple other posts is that the fantastic customer service that HAS been experienced with Finecast returns, may have recently changed. The OP tells of an in-store experience and another poster says that he got the same run-around over the phone.

Also, in the US it is state by state. I know in FL we have the 'Better Business Bureau'. If I run into a similar problem with GW I will just call them.

And as much fun as I have had calling Finecast what it is (Failcast, Failcost, etc) The guys in here are making a valid argument NOT to use those terms in thread titles, and serious posts in general.

SickSix wrote:
And as much fun as I have had calling Finecast what it is (Failcast, Failcost, etc) The guys in here are making a valid argument NOT to use those terms in thread titles, and serious posts in general.

Or, if one must use an alternate term, use BOTH of the terms: "Finecast (or Failcast)". This will make everyone happy...