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plastictrees wrote:The masks are obviously meant to invoke the image of Chaos demons. Right now I'm looking at them like a cross between samurai and shikami/hannya masks...both intimidating and indicative of the warrior wearing it assuming a role. Which ties in to the Eldar aspect warrior tradition as well.

Hopefully they'll cover their meaning in the codex a little.

Now this makes sense to me. And wow! What kind of fluff would that lead to.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Is there a seperate thread for the new rules at all please.
Sorry but the (inevitable and justified) plaudits are now tedious to wade through for info.

I started one - but it was locked by mods because they told me it would be more confusing to have another thread open for rules than it would be to have it in 15+ pages of various discussions.

Some nice details of the design process in today's blog post on the GW website.

The full squad picture in particular looks good.



Sorry if this stuff has already been posted I can't keep up with this thread.

SilverMK2 wrote:Not so keen on the transports (which IMO look pretty stupid) or the jetbikes (which look very unbalanced). However, the sword guys look good, and I am "meh" on the wytches.

Might make fun conversions into other things (especially daemonettes and perhaps even certain Eldar units).

Should be plenty of conversion possibilities, as the DE warriors parts are interchangeable with the wytches and some of the plastic Eldar troops as well. And yes, thats official...it was in the Incoming! DE email from GW.

I like what Ive seen of the new DE stuff so far.

Nick Ellingworth wrote:The full squad picture in particular looks good.

Those do look great, especially the unit leader...

This is just awesome. I am going to buy several of the new kits just to customize my Eldar.

Look at that freaking Heavy weapon! My what an awsome group of models. even the unhelmeted heads are quite spectacular imo. The thing that really makes me like this update is that they do now look like Dark 'Eldar'. Honestly, the old DE had no resemblance to their kin.

I'm guessing the model bottom row second from the left is the Carbine. or whatever it will be called.

I think the warriors are some of the best plastic GW's done. I look at those and they have non of the tell tale signs of multi-pose plastic.

Iron Angel wrote:

Rymafyr wrote:Personally I don't see why horns are a default 'chaos' meme.

Hmm nobody else is "stupid" enough to include "neckbreak helpers" with their armour.

I'd guess incubi are going to be those most physically effected by the warp. Which is to say maybe the horns are physically part of them.

Even still Eldar technology does have a semi-organic nature and is relatively advanced, so what is to say it adds any significant weight to have horns. You're looking at them with the context of modern materials and that doesn't work with a fictional technologically advanced race.

As to "why horns...?" its because the are minimally invasive, yet showy. Imagine designing figure with nipple spikes or three legs. In the case of chaos space marines I'm not fond of horns because they're so much like an after thought and I blelieve more could be done to distinguish their armor. For dark eldar, they have distinguished armor and the horns these have I think contribute to their more graceful look.

I think one of the things that I most like about these models is that they finally have a range of Dark Eldar figures that look like Dark ELDAR. Before, the design similarities were only that they were humanoids slightly skinnier than human IG models, and that they had pointy/conical (comical?) helmets. Now, they look like they both came from a similar cultural aesthetic/design sensibility, with the DE having broken off, and going in a more, well, dark direction. But changing much of the weaponry to look similar to Eldar weapons, and making the armor more like the Eldar line (which is really solid, IMO) only serves to STRENGTHEN the character and identity of the line, rather than dilute it (by making it similar to the existing Eldar) In my opinion.

What Dark Eldar should have in the codex, is a heavy weapon squad, that doesn't have jump packs.....(so are therefore cheaper....)


Just a thought

I imagine they could pull something similar to Space Marine assault squads. Drop the jump packs get a transport.

I'm more inclined to say GW will just come up with some rules that make them better. Say something like, because even when they aren't moving they're hovering, their attacks are against the "top" armor, use side armor value.

my thoughts on lilith -





any similarities? Discuss.

That second model has no sense of balance looks like she'd be about to fall off.

SaintHazard wrote:In other words, you all want to make them more like SPESS MEHREENS?

No thanks.

I don't want them to be more like space marines. I was merely stating precedent for an alternative that doesn't diminish the character of the unit.

The simple fact is Scourges are a bit of a contradiction of function. In their current form they have two high price pieces of equipment, their weapon and their jump pack. The two are each used to the exclusion of the other. Making them over priced and rather ineffectual as a heavy support choice while simultaneously inappropriate in a hypothetical fast attack position.

So they either need new rules or some way for the player to choose to accentuate one of the two over the other.

catharsix wrote:I think one of the things that I most like about these models is that they finally have a range of Dark Eldar figures that look like Dark ELDAR. Before, the design similarities were only that they were humanoids slightly skinnier than human IG models, and that they had pointy/conical (comical?) helmets. Now, they look like they both came from a similar cultural aesthetic/design sensibility, with the DE having broken off, and going in a more, well, dark direction. But changing much of the weaponry to look similar to Eldar weapons, and making the armor more like the Eldar line (which is really solid, IMO) only serves to STRENGTHEN the character and identity of the line, rather than dilute it (by making it similar to the existing Eldar) In my opinion.

Like I said before, Jes hit the sweet spot. Fresh and yet fitting the eldar "look." New and yet an evolution from the old minis. This is harder than it sounds.


And I don't think heavy weapons squads on foot exactly fit the DE ideal and fighting style.

What is inspiring to me about these is that it now becomes the most 'characterful' race within the 40k mythos. That was an element I loved about DE from the beginning. Not to discount anyone's army, a good modeler finds ways to personalize his force. With DE you just know there are stories to be told amongst even the troops and this new range will definately lend itself to showing what amazing stories will be told by us modelers. I know I'll be pissing off the wife..but I'll need a box of Wyches and Warriors from the start.

I know I'll be pissing off the wife..but I'll need a box of Wyches and Warriors from the start.

Yeah.
40k? It costs your money, your time, and your life/wife.

Wife... I guess some people haven't learned that plastic love can be bought... ironically with plastic.

aka_mythos wrote:I don't want them to be more like space marines. I was merely stating precedent for an alternative that doesn't diminish the character of the unit.

While my post was partially in response to you, it was about 80% in response to the poster above you.

In any case, I always worry when people suggest that every race have a Tactical Squad-equivalent, an Assault Squad-equivalent, and a Devastato Squad-equivalent... as if Tac, Dev, and Assault squads are the end-all be-all of military tactica. Some races have been moving towards this (though, to be fair, many have moved away since RT days), including CSM (CSM, Raptors, and Havocs), Eldar (Dire Avengers, Banshees, and Reapers), and Necrons (Warriors, Flayed Ones, and Immortals (kind of)). Same formula throughout - a balanced squad, an assaulty squad, a shooty squad. Bread and butter have never been so boring. It waters down the tactical aspect of the game, and simplifies it past the point of requiring simplification.

One of the reasons I play Tau is that they're one of the armies that specifically defy this convention.

Anyway, not trying to start an argument or anything, just putting forth the opinion that the LAST thing I want to see DE become is "fragile Space Marines with pointy ears."

bubber wrote:my thoughts on lilith -





any similarities? Discuss.

problem is that model looks better then lileth imo...

wuestenfux wrote:

I know I'll be pissing off the wife..but I'll need a box of Wyches and Warriors from the start.

Yeah.
40k? It costs your money, your time, and your life/wife.

That's alright. Your wife will eventually die of old age, but Lelith Hesperax is not biodegradable!

^^

You guys are kidding right? The fact that the Lelith model is moving in more dimensions, that flesh is harder to sculpt the supple muscle movement, that Lelith has normally proportioned weapons that look good, and she doesn't have horns jutting out of her head that look tacked on with bluetac......

Well everyone has an opinion, including me

Hulksmash wrote:^^

You guys are kidding right? The fact that the Lelith model is moving in more dimensions, that flesh is harder to sculpt the supple muscle movement, that Lelith has normally proportioned weapons that look good, and she doesn't have horns jutting out of her head that look tacked on with bluetac......

Well everyone has an opinion, including me

Yeah, those horns are a bit wonky, and the front leg isn't set right for balance with her torso.

Awesome stuff... especially likes the Bikes and Barges. I could definitely see myself getting an army based around these and converting all the swords to look like cutlasses and putting some jolly rogers up.

You know, and here I'd been wondering what to spend my GW voucher on...I think I know now.

Are those DE Warrior Loincloths supposed to be skins?

I vote yes! And I'd paint them that way

The new DE warriors are really good. If I was going to play DE (which I don't plan to) I would cut off the knee spikey thing. Those spikes are too big. I think they got the spikes right on the Lelith character...spikey...but not toooo spikey. Same goes with the helmets the spikes are a bit "too, too" on some of the helmets. Escpecially disliek the "picklehauser" helmet they show there(the purple one).

Overall, I like the new models, but I would have to cut off some of the over the top spikes to make them to my taste.

GG

Anybody know if the basic DE Warrior will still be BS4? It looks like the basic squad will still have a Dark Lance option. Not worried about it being overpowered, rather, kinda dull. Since the inception of the DE, I've really only seen one type of build: how many Dark Lances can I fit into the army. At least BS 3 may rethink the DE option (or a pay a premium for Dark Lances).

Nick Ellingworth wrote:Some nice details of the design process in today's blog post on the GW website.

The full squad picture in particular looks good.



Sorry if this stuff has already been posted I can't keep up with this thread.

I wonder if we're going to need pages with pictures to know which guns are which.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SaintHazard wrote: In any case, I always worry when people suggest that every race have a Tactical Squad-equivalent, an Assault Squad-equivalent, and a Devastato Squad-equivalent... as if Tac, Dev, and Assault squads are the end-all be-all of military tactica.

Some races have been moving towards this (though, to be fair, many have moved away since RT days), including CSM (CSM, Raptors, and Havocs), Eldar (Dire Avengers, Banshees, and Reapers), and Necrons (Warriors, Flayed Ones, and Immortals (kind of)). Same formula throughout - a balanced squad, an assaulty squad, a shooty squad.

One of the reasons I play Tau is that they're one of the armies that specifically defy this convention.

Fundamentally, based on 40k games being Movement, Shooting, and Assault to take Objectives, I think every army boils down to having something that Moves models quickly, something for the Shooting Phase, something for the Assault Phase, and something cheap enough and durable to hold Objectives. The idea that an army will succeed without having all four of the above in some combination is somewhat flawed.

CSM only recently got Raptors. Eldar had Avengers/Guardians; Scorpions/Banshees; Reapers/Hawks for their trifecta. Necrons and Tau were developed at a time in which Assault wasn't important, so they don't really have Assault options; Necrons suffered for basically only having Tacticals, BTW.

I think you're going to be disappointed in the next Tau book, because your Devilfish & Fire Warriors are almost certainly going to see assault specialists and heavy weapons specialists grafted on to bring the unit count up. I'd expect variant sprues with different weapons, building off the basic FW like a basic SM.

Wow...

They look 100x better than the old models they are replacing.

Raider (with those cool sails): The sails add a 'pirate-y' touch. An improvement on the old design.
Wyches: So much better; 1- they are plastic; 2- they look so much better; 3- they are compatible with other DE plastic sets (and some Eldar)
Lelith: Looks a hell of a lot better (the old model looked )
Incubi: Look amazing, cool swords BUT they have a 'Tzeentch-ey' feel with the horns. I hope they are plastic.
Reaver Jetbikes: Look better than the old ones (an angular echo of the Eldar ones)
Warriors: They are fantastic; better than I had hoped for. Cool new design and a compatiblity with other Dark Eldar/Eldar kits is a massive plus.
Archon: To be fair; given how awful the old/current model looks the design team did not need to try hard. But rather than just doing better they have made a fantastic model which fits the new incubi perfectly.

Well that's just my opinion.

I am also overjoyed about harelquin's being in the new codex.