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aka_mythos wrote:The simple fact is Scourges are a bit of a contradiction of function. In their current form they have two high price pieces of equipment, their weapon and their jump pack. The two are each used to the exclusion of the other. Making them over priced and rather ineffectual as a heavy support choice while simultaneously inappropriate in a hypothetical fast attack position.

So they either need new rules or some way for the player to choose to accentuate one of the two over the other.

I don't know how reliable the source is, but I have heard that Scourges will have the Relentless USR.

Jump-packing move & fire heavy weapon squads seem like they might be pretty darn good, as long as the points cost isn't too exorbitant.

Hey emo kid in the back right, cheer up dude!

JohnHwangDD wrote:I wonder if we're going to need pages with pictures to know which guns are which.

While there will most likely be pictures in the codex, we don't really need them.

The Front row 2nd from the right is a Splinter Cannon, the Pistol is most likely a Splinter Pistol, Front Row 2nd from the left is a Blaster (or the new Melta/Lance thingy) and the rest are Splinter Rifles.

puma713 wrote:

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Is there a seperate thread for the new rules at all please.
Sorry but the (inevitable and justified) plaudits are now tedious to wade through for info.

I started one - but it was locked by mods because they told me it would be more confusing to have another thread open for rules than it would be to have it in 15+ pages of various discussions.

Maybe it was to early, but now I started a new one with a summary.

Here another tdbit about the sculptors:

The dark eldar are just amazing, Thanks Mr Goodwin for it. From a conversation I had with him there were more sculptors involved in the project (although Jes was the sole creator of the concepts and the main drive for it).

Jes Goodwin: all the concept art plus warriors, wytches, Incubi, Archon, 3d mock-up for the Raider and 3d mock-up for the Jetbike

Alex Hedström: computer generated Jetbike sprue

Oliver Norman, Tom Walton, Dale Stringer: computer generated Raider and infantry weaponry

Aly Morrison: computer generated crew for the Raider, based in Jes´warriors

Juan Díaz: Lelith Hesperax

Farmer wrote:problem is that model looks better then lileth imo...

Well, we're all entitled to our own opinions. Personally, in comparison, I find the PP model to be static and awkward in it's positioning. I find the PP model to be lacking in elegance, and really don't like the hunched over position of the upper body. I also find the sculpting of the face on the Lelith model to be superior; much more realistically feminine. The body on the GW mini shows better muscle definition on exposed body parts, too, all the way down to the sculpted definition of the quadriceps muscle at the upper end near the pelvis.

The only similarity between the two is that the both happen to be standing on an angled scenic base.

At last the Dark Eldar look evil and twisted these are some of the best Gw figures I have seen in a long time 2010 is proving to be a expensive one for me as these just went top of my must have list.

I had nothing but contempt for the DE and refused to even acknowledge them, but these new models = love at first sight.

I think I may have some issues.

Saldiven wrote:

Farmer wrote:problem is that model looks better then lileth imo...

Well, we're all entitled to our own opinions. Personally, in comparison, I find the PP model to be static and awkward in it's positioning. I find the PP model to be lacking in elegance, and really don't like the hunched over position of the upper body. I also find the sculpting of the face on the Lelith model to be superior; much more realistically feminine. The body on the GW mini shows better muscle definition on exposed body parts, too, all the way down to the sculpted definition of the quadriceps muscle at the upper end near the pelvis.

The only similarity between the two is that the both happen to be standing on an angled scenic base.

Agreed on all points.

Reecius wrote:

Hey emo kid in the back right, cheer up dude!

Yep. Kinda looks like the singer from the Yeah Yeah Yeahs. That hair-in-face thing is pretty silly. First moment of non-love for the DE I've had yet.

I'm loving the stabilizer vanes on the lance, like the ones on the Craftworld Eldar ranger longrifles or the War Walker. This makes me think of another source of bitz for kitbashing with DE... Eldar vehicles. Offer of firstborn child to first person to post pics of cross-range bitz compatibility has been extended to include a kidney for anyone with the Raider sprue who can show scale next to Warwalker bitz.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Fundamentally, based on 40k games being Movement, Shooting, and Assault to take Objectives, I think every army boils down to having something that Moves models quickly, something for the Shooting Phase, something for the Assault Phase, and something cheap enough and durable to hold Objectives. The idea that an army will succeed without having all four of the above in some combination is somewhat flawed.

CSM only recently got Raptors. Eldar had Avengers/Guardians; Scorpions/Banshees; Reapers/Hawks for their trifecta. Necrons and Tau were developed at a time in which Assault wasn't important, so they don't really have Assault options; Necrons suffered for basically only having Tacticals, BTW.

I think you're going to be disappointed in the next Tau book, because your Devilfish & Fire Warriors are almost certainly going to see assault specialists and heavy weapons specialists grafted on to bring the unit count up. I'd expect variant sprues with different weapons, building off the basic FW like a basic SM.

I don't quite agree with this assessment, and I'll explain why. While I agree that Necrons suffer, I do think there are some potentially competitive armies out there (maybe not top-tier, but if I can win with them, so can you) that do include Tau, and, notably, Orks.

Let's examine Tau and Orks for a moment. Neither of these really have the equivalent of Tactical, Devastator, and Assault Marines. Orks have Boyz, which fit the bill for numbers one and three (assuming you're not taking Stormboyz), and Lootaz, which roughly fill position number two, but when your Devastators are armed with nothing but autocannons and your tacticals are tooled for assault, you defy the archetype. Tau, likewise, have their "Tacticals" built like "Beefed Up Tacticals" mixed with a bit of devastator when you consider that their basic infantry weapons can pop transports. Not easily, but that's where you factor in the volume of fire that makes Tau so deadly. Both Orks and Tau specialize instead of being an all-around well-balanced army like Eldar or Space Marines, and I love them for it. Even IG is more well-rounded (despite having very little that can assault without using a blob for that sole purpose) than Tau or Orks. And yet I win with both on a regular basis. I'm not saying that you're wrong, who knows, maybe in the next Tau codex I'll be seeing Devastators and Assault Marines, but honestly I like them just the way they are, and I think they can be competitive without doing the Space Marine thing. And honestly, so can Dark Eldar.

And now I just realized I wrote an entire paragraph on why Tau and Orks are awesome in a thread about Dark Eldar.

I apologize. Probably best to take this discussion to PMs. Feel free to do that if you'd like, JHDD.

On topic, Gwar!, the fact that you were waffling back and forth between two pieces of wargear and had a "probably" in there tells us that we may well need some pictures to tell us what's what after all.

I'd be very surprised, given the overall redesign of the line, if weapon descriptions and pics were not in the new codex. I can only say for certainty what the splinter rifle and pistol are...the rest is suspect.

And the "no topknots on the new Dark Eldar and that's good because I hate topknots" people are conspicuously silent or try to pretend they never said it. It matters knot (pun intended), the miniatures are great looking as expected from Jes Goodwin.

Well, one thing is for certain. DE are reborn and the model line is spectacular. The only thing left now is the codex and to see how they will play. While it's easy to hope the DE will now ravage existing armies, ala SW, BA, IG etc., I really would rather hope for a well balanced codex with the option to field various lists. That is yet to be seen but I can hope.

Sarigar wrote:Anybody know if the basic DE Warrior will still be BS4? It looks like the basic squad will still have a Dark Lance option. Not worried about it being overpowered, rather, kinda dull. Since the inception of the DE, I've really only seen one type of build: how many Dark Lances can I fit into the army. At least BS 3 may rethink the DE option (or a pay a premium for Dark Lances).

Actually, that build didn't really become a big deal until 5th edition when all the other builds became non-competitive.

I'm wondering where the smaller GW retail stores in the US are going to fit all these new miniatures on the shelves. For years now they've not had to worry about it with the range being Direct Only in the US. That's about to change as it appears there are quite a few box sets coming for Dark Eldar. The shelf arrangements are tight already with all the new sets that have come out for other armies over the past few years. I wonder what items if any might get cut from the shelves to make room. I suppose if they've managed to cram all that plus Dark Eldar onto shelves in small stores outside the US all these years it will work here too, but it will be interesting to see how the jigsaw puzzle gets rearranged again.

oni wrote:I had nothing but contempt for the DE and refused to even acknowledge them, but these new models = love at first sight.

I think I may have some issues.

QFT - I am right there with you. I am already thinking about potential conversions and kit-bashes (I am a converting maniac) I need a break from my Nids, and though that was going to be Chaos, I just wasn't feeling it. I am sure feeling these models though... hopefully I can hold back from buying to much at once, and get burned out on them too!

Saldiven wrote:

Sarigar wrote:Anybody know if the basic DE Warrior will still be BS4? It looks like the basic squad will still have a Dark Lance option. Not worried about it being overpowered, rather, kinda dull. Since the inception of the DE, I've really only seen one type of build: how many Dark Lances can I fit into the army. At least BS 3 may rethink the DE option (or a pay a premium for Dark Lances).

Actually, that build didn't really become a big deal until 5th edition when all the other builds became non-competitive.

Not saying when it became a big deal. Just stating that's pretty much the only build I've ever seen played since it first came out. I've seen a few folks test the Wych Cult when that came out, but quickly abandoned it for the DL spam list.

Gwar! wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:I wonder if we're going to need pages with pictures to know which guns are which.

While there will most likely be pictures in the codex, we don't really need them.

The Front row 2nd from the right is a Splinter Cannon, the Pistol is most likely a Splinter Pistol, Front Row 2nd from the left is a Blaster (or the new Melta/Lance thingy) and the rest are Splinter Rifles.

Obviously, we do.

What you've labeled as a Splinter Cannon shares the aesthetics of former Lance weaponry(as well as that of the Dark lance on the new Raider) and is more likely the Infantry version of the Dark lance. As for the "Splinter Pistol", look again at the barrel vs the barrel of the Blaster/Special. Clearly a pistol version of the Blaster/Special Weapon of the squad.

SaintHazard wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:Fundamentally, based on 40k games being Movement, Shooting, and Assault to take Objectives, I think every army boils down to having something that Moves models quickly, something for the Shooting Phase, something for the Assault Phase, and something cheap enough and durable to hold Objectives.

I don't quite agree with this assessment, and I'll explain why. While I agree that Necrons suffer, I do think there are some potentially competitive armies out there (maybe not top-tier, but if I can win with them, so can you) that do include Tau, and, notably, Orks.

And now I just realized I wrote an entire paragraph on why Tau and Orks are awesome in a thread about Dark Eldar.

I apologize. Probably best to take this discussion to PMs. Feel free to do that if you'd like, JHDD.

All good. Start a new thread on it?
____

BrassScorpion wrote:And the "no topknots on the new Dark Eldar and that's good because I hate topknots" people are conspicuously silent or try to pretend they never said it. It matters knot (pun intended), the miniatures are great looking as expected from Jes Goodwin.

The minis are nice, despite the topknots. The saving grace of topknots is that they are easily cut off.

Although Emo-boy is pretty inexcusable. That said, we're going to see Wyches with only that head, with sleeveless arms, and massed "cuttings" going "across the street"...

"Emoboy" is actually "Emogirl", so the hair's a bit more excusable there.

Honestly the hair there kinda reminds me of the Escher juve with the pick - and she was hot, emo or no.

Reecius wrote:

Hey emo kid in the back right, cheer up dude!

how original


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gwar! wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:I wonder if we're going to need pages with pictures to know which guns are which.

While there will most likely be pictures in the codex, we don't really need them.

The Front row 2nd from the right is a Splinter Cannon, the Pistol is most likely a Splinter Pistol, Front Row 2nd from the left is a Blaster (or the new Melta/Lance thingy) and the rest are Splinter Rifles.

the 2nd from the right is a dark lance, you noob!

To be honest, Being an emo kid with a big ass gun? Im pretty sure that kid's having the time of his life.

Im liking these mini's. They actually appeal to me. There goes the birthday cash!

And just think...if GW would have released these 6 months ago..they could have had my birthday cash...

oni wrote:I had nothing but contempt for the DE and refused to even acknowledge them, but these new models = love at first sight.

I think I may have some issues.

I'm not acknowledging them beyond "No, not playing 40K vs them, I have better things to do, jump off that band wagon kid."

I do have a use for the Lelith model, but it's purely for a joke that I may or may not care enough to do.

Gwar! wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:I wonder if we're going to need pages with pictures to know which guns are which.

While there will most likely be pictures in the codex, we don't really need them.

The Front row 2nd from the right is a Splinter Cannon, the Pistol is most likely a Splinter Pistol, Front Row 2nd from the left is a Blaster (or the new Melta/Lance thingy) and the rest are Splinter Rifles.

IMHO that weapon that you call Splinter Cannon is actually a Dark Lance, it looks the same than the weapon in the Raider.. In the Warriors sprue we can see a weapon that looks like a thicker Splinter Rifle. I think that's the Splinter Cannon. And that Splinter Pistol differs from the Wych version

Edit: ok, I'm the third voting for Dark Lance

Just saw a close-up of the raider sprues. The decks seem to be littered with almost-but-not-quite-there swastikas.

They also have a gang-plank.

I am totally debating getting a few Raiders to make a Dark Elf Corsair Raiding ship. I mean hell...they even give you sails. If they didn't want me to do this, they shouldn't have made it so easy.

Arrrr mateys, pirate Elves shall rule the seas!

Erasoketa wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:I wonder if we're going to need pages with pictures to know which guns are which.

While there will most likely be pictures in the codex, we don't really need them.

The Front row 2nd from the right is a Splinter Cannon, the Pistol is most likely a Splinter Pistol, Front Row 2nd from the left is a Blaster (or the new Melta/Lance thingy) and the rest are Splinter Rifles.

IMHO that weapon that you call Splinter Cannon is actually a Dark Lance, it looks the same than the weapon in the Raider.. In the Warriors sprue we can see a weapon that looks like a thicker Splinter Rifle. I think that's the Splinter Cannon. And that Splinter Pistol differs from the Wych version

Edit: ok, I'm the third voting for Dark Lance

Additionally, the second "special weapon" in that squad may be a Shredder, as there appears to be some sort of mono-filament vanes showing.
Can't really tell too much from the angle being displayed though....unless they have changed the look fo the Blaster this time around.

I'm curious as to what the Sybarites can take as wargear though....

It's a Dark Lance