Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 DutchKillsRambo wrote:

Really? Really? Way beyond the normal boundaries of social standards?

Seeing as she's been to conventions in similar costumes and never been harassed or degraded like this before, yes, this is beyond the normal boundries of the social standard that's relevant.

Remove her wig and mask, and change her costume slightly but she's still wearing a skin tight leather outfit. Insert her into your local bar, club, party whatever. Would ANYONE say forward and dumb questions wouldnt happen? OF course they would. But gak like this happens every weekend ad nauseaum at bars, and no one blinks an eye. You might say alcohol is to blame for poor behavior at bars, but every con ive been to has been a big party. Why is this news then?

And if we sent her back in time, she could be burnt as a witch, or if we dropped her into a Taliban stronghold I'm sure much worse than this would happen to her.

But seeing as none of that happened, nor is she in a bar, in a different outfit, that doesn't matter.

And it's telling the sole arguments that don't largely consist of yelling "whore " at her only consist entirely of rewriting entirely new and fictitious scenarios, which bear minimal to no relevance to the case in hand.

Im not talking about nerd persecution. But as I understand it, the Daily Mail is almost a tabloid correct? So its safe to assume that most its readers are probably not the most discerning type correct? So if thats the case, then a quick glance over this article will lead many to think "well cons ARE full of the weirdos I always heard they were" Or is that wrong?

.. think print version of Fox News.

And people need to get off this bs that anyone is "slut-shaming" her. Were simply asking how this rude and crass, but overall insignificant behavior is making national news. Some of you think she's out there standing up for womens rights. Others think shes blowing something out of proportion to garner hits on her website and the Daily Mail to sell copies. Only she knows the truth. Not you. Not I.

So please stop comparing anyone that isnt instantly supporting her to rapists and wife beaters.

seeing as she's been described over and over in this thread as " whore" or slut methinks you doth protest too much.

She didn't blow anything out of proportion. The Daily Mail article is nothing to do with her, her article was originally referenced on a website that deals mainly with comic books, and from there the magic of the web did it's wonderful work.

How is a women wearing what she wants and then writing what she wants not standing up for women's right s? We've got posters in this very thread saying she's now rite to do X/Y/Z, when she quite blatantly does.

I still maintain that I enjoy seeing boobs in outrageous costumes at GenCon, and if any of your fethers feth that up, there will be hell to pay so help me Frazzled's Weener Brigade!

hotsauceman1 wrote: its like going into the Lions dens with a full meat suit, you expect to be pounced on.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
That's like saying 'I'm not surprised that the black guy got insulted when walking past a BNP rally' is the same as 'he deserved to be insulted'.
Expecting a negative outcome and agreeing with that negative outcome are quite different.

Hotsauce how can you legitimize this poor girls rape and MGS, that's clearly uinrelated and should be dismissed out of hand.
...OR when people I disagree with so fundamentally, so often, are saying similar things it exposes your internet white knightery and deliberate refusal to see obvious parallels for what it is.

Manchu wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
She should be prepared to encounter men who behave in a bad way.

Look, I agree.

And /thread.

Looky looky, but no touchy touchy.

Or as the wife says: build up an appetite and come home for dinner.

 d-usa wrote:
Or as the wife says: build up an appetite and come home for dinner.

Good expression. Unfortunately in my experience that leads to awkward discussions of just what's wrong with her cooking; but that's a different thread.

I'd say she didn't deserve to be treated that way, and she most certainly wasn't asking for it. I grade weather a cosplayer is just trying to get attention by how accurate their costume is. she appears to be wearing a very accurate Black Cat costume, and seeing as she didn't design that costume I'd say it's not her fault it's a bit racy. now the fishnet vader on the other hand I cannot forgive, that's clearly attention seeking behavior.

 d-usa wrote:
Looky looky, but no touchy touchy.

Or as the wife says: build up an appetite and come home for dinner.

Them's strip club rules...

I'm still stunned people got so offended on her behalf.. nothing bloody happened!

Some gak comments?! So fething what!

Welcome to life, people say gak that annoys you. Big deal.

If he had actually done you know.. anything at all, we could have a discussion, but really.. two or three gak comments? It doesnt even warrant a discussion.

Rude bitches have said all sorts of lewd things to me in my 32 years on this earth, I don't demand some satisfaction, masking tape a boxing glove to a broomshank and then goad her with it until she keels over dies, I just tell them to feth off and walk.

And at least thats in a public place, this is a chick who dresses up and attends conventions because she absolutely fething LOVES the attention.

As I said, the guy was a dick, but who cares.. there are billions of dicks. Probably about half of the globes people are dicks... so actually more than 3 billion of the fethers!

Auston has the right of it, lets blame the victim some more.

 kronk wrote:
I still maintain that I enjoy seeing boobs in outrageous costumes at GenCon, and if any of your fethers feth that up, there will be hell to pay so help me Frazzled's Weener Brigade!

This is a statment of clarity that should be supported.

 Frazzled wrote:

 kronk wrote:
I still maintain that I enjoy seeing boobs in outrageous costumes at GenCon, and if any of your fethers feth that up, there will be hell to pay so help me Frazzled's Weener Brigade!

This is a statment of clarity that should be supported.

indeed.

 LordofHats wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
Surely you must understand that just means it will be more likely to happen again?

And yet, it's going to happen again somewhere to somebody no matter what we say. Funny how that works. Almost as if the world doesn't revolve around our own sensibilities.

I get that this ties into the belief that, faced with a sexy woman, a man has no choice but to sexually harass her. Now, in the real world, this isn't true. Human beings have a thing called culture. It is shaped by discussion of events. When certain events are discussed as bad and inappropriate, they are less likely to happen and -- in cases like this -- when they happen anyway, they have a less negative impact.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 mattyrm wrote:
I'm still stunned people got so offended on her behalf.. nothing bloody happened!

Are you illiterate? Caruso was sexually harassed. The only way your comments could come off as more stereotypically boorish is if you insisted that she deserved it. Oh wait ...

I have to say for the record, even if I agree for the most part with the "it's bullgak she got harassed" party this thread absolutely reeks of White Knighting.

 sebster wrote:

 Shredsmore wrote:
I just think that this chick wanted attention and publicity, so she dressed up like a tart and then when people started noticing, she tells everyone it is completely innapropriate and uncalled for so she can start a big case, sue, and possibly get rich. This kind of thing is real common. Dunno why this one is gettin' so much hype

Except there is a clear and obvious difference between 'attention' and putting your ass in a girl's face and telling her to spank it.

I refuse to believe you cannot understand that difference.

'spose your right.

 Mannahnin wrote:

Shredsmore, you've completely missed the point and misunderstood what's happening and said several false things. You should feel bad. Thank you for exemplifying why we need to make a stink over incidents like this, and expect better from our fellow gamers.

And you're a mod? Many users are more helpful than you, what you just said was totally dickish.

What does white knighting have to do with saying that women don't deserve to be sexually harassed?

What this thread reeks of misogyny.

 Shredsmore wrote:

 Mannahnin wrote:

Shredsmore, you've completely missed the point and misunderstood what's happening and said several false things. You should feel bad. Thank you for exemplifying why we need to make a stink over incidents like this, and expect better from our fellow gamers.

And you're a mod? Many users are more helpful than you, what you just said was totally dickish.

Mods can come here and discuss same as the rest of us, they can be direct if they feel the need and we can therefore understand that they have taken off the badge in order to comment in that fashion. It's why Manchu and I were direct in our exchange a few pages back. In opening up a direct dialogue, they are checking their gun at the door.

You can both exchange direct argument, you just can't directly insult each other according to rule 1.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
You can both exchange direct argument, you just can't directly insult each other according to rule 1.

Quiet, you pernicious ragamuffin! .. oh wait, no, you're exactly right. Sorry MGS!

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
I have to say for the record, even if I agree for the most part with the "it's bullgak she got harassed" party this thread absolutely reeks of White Knighting.

Look my family has been defending damsels in distress and slaying dragons for the past thousand or so years. I can't help it, chivalry is in my genes at this point. I see anyone in distress I can't help but try to help them. It's just my nature.

I get that this ties into the belief that, some people are just gakholes and nothing we do, no amount of condemnation will ever make them less of a gakhole.

In the real world this is true.

 Manchu wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
You can both exchange direct argument, you just can't directly insult each other according to rule 1.

Quiet, you pernicious ragamuffin! .. oh wait, no, you're exactly right. Sorry MGS!

Kids these days...


It should not have happened, it was a bad thing.

On the scale of evil, it was not a major bad thing.

It's relevant to our own hobby and to our wider perception as fringe interest types.

I doubt this very attractive woman will be losing sleep over the incident and will likely garner a huge groundswell of sympathy and support... and publicity.

This unpleasant attitude is on the decline, both in wider society and, more slowly, in this traditionally male citadel of chauvinism.

I do feel there's a certain hypocrisy in the incident happening whilst the woman was wearing a costume that, in it's self, can be said to represent an insulting stereotype to women and reinforcement of female body image issues.

I would also just like to quote Aaron Demski Bowden, who, I think sums up this episode for me.

" It’s annoying and false that we’re always painted up like clownish, unpalatable c**ts – except, of course, the many among our diverse and multinational breed who are indeed already clownish, unpalatable c**ts. But they exist in every community, culture, subculture and fandom. So… whatever. "

As an aside, does anyone else find it rather amusing that this thread seems to almost be The Mods vs the rest of Dakka?

 Ratbarf wrote:
As an aside, does anyone else find it rather amusing that this thread seems to almost be The Mods vs the rest of Dakka?

I hope it's no surprise that mods would have a dim view of sexual harassment.

 LordofHats wrote:
I get that this ties into the belief that, some people are just gakholes and nothing we do, no amount of condemnation will ever make them less of a gakhole.

In the real world this is true.

No, it isn't.

Changing perceptions and attitudes towards women and their treatment by men have been rapidly ongoing throughout the last century.

The masses define reality, if the masses decide that this is not acceptable, it will become more fringe and frowned upon.

Look at the office workplace and consider what was acceptable in the office in the 50s compared to today. Slapping a woman's ass, commenting on her clothing and physical appearance.


The times they are a'changing, which is why this daily mail article irritated me.

Sexually harassed? In an office setting of course. In a party setting? Thats open to personal opinion.

If your so worried about women in costumes being asked their breast size, this halloween weekend coming up is going to be hell for you. But I dont see many articles about how scantily clad women were treated rudely at frat parties across the nation. Oh thats right its easier to write trash reinforcing negative stereotypes. But by all means support this. It helps nerds everywhere. Somehow.

And for people defending her saying that she paints us in a good light these are all quotes from the article:

"It's also common, Miss Caruso revealed in a post on her blog, for them to be sexually harassed by overzealous fans."


"Several of them, she said made 'WOAH LOOK AT THOSE KNOCKERS' faces"

All this because by my count she was stared at and asked 3 rude questions. 3. After saying she had so many good experiences. And Im also waiting to see how 2 people standing can have one shoving their ass in the others face. Explain the physics of that one to me. So most likely a butt was near her. She lives in NYC and has never been near a butt on the subway?

By all means we should fight disgusting intolerance and sexism wherever it pops up. This just isnt one IMO. This is a case of trying to get famous as a fashion designer. And judging from her website, shes not comic fan, at least I dont see any evidence of this. Shes an aspiring fashion designer in NYC with artwork that looks like shes watched too many Tim Burton movies.

And since she makes t shirts with the phrase "boo you whore" can we use that phrase? Or is she the only one allowed to say whore?

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Changing perceptions and attitudes towards women and their treatment by men have been rapidly ongoing throughout the last century.

The masses define reality, if the masses decide that this is not acceptable, it will become more fringe and frowned upon.

And I'm sure some people thought racism would go away forever 20 or 30 years ago. Yet we still have racists in the world. Some things never go away. We can either accept that that's just the way things are, or spend over a dozen pages on the internet talking about it... Or both...

Can we just create a rule that all women dress this way, that way it becomes 'the norm' and things like this won't happen anymore? I for one support women dressing up in super heroine costumes and putting their best, er, foot...forward.

I read through a few pages of this, made a joke and appreciated her costume as she intended-looks accurate, she cuts a fine figure, and I'd be happy to say hi, compliment her and go on with the rest of the Con. And watch her ass as she walked away, of course, but not be a lecher where she can see. Dressing up as a comic book character DOES NOT make her a whore or a slut-it means she put on an accurate costume. Is she making too big a deal out of it? Maybe it's time to let it go, and if she sues, it's stupid and I agree she fethed up. But the people calling her a whore and a slut and saying she asked for it by dressing in an accurate costume need to jump off the George Washington Bridge. Seriously, those of you doing this are bad people and you should be ashamed of yourselves. You're the reason people don't like nerds and consider us social outcasts.

 DutchKillsRambo wrote:


And since she makes t shirts with the phrase "boo you whore" can we use that phrase? Or is she the only one allowed to say whore?

That's just playful darkness and tough femininity.

She didn't deserve to be harassed and asked her cup size. That's just fething rude.

But the world will continue to spin. And Matty will be groped again in some pub.

 LordofHats wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Changing perceptions and attitudes towards women and their treatment by men have been rapidly ongoing throughout the last century.

The masses define reality, if the masses decide that this is not acceptable, it will become more fringe and frowned upon.

And I'm sure some people thought racism would go away forever 20 or 30 years ago. Yet we still have racists in the world. Some things never go away. We can either accept that that's just the way things are, or spend over a dozen pages on the internet talking about it... Or both...

Or we can use the internet to fail to condemn anti-social behaviour and thus tacitly endorse and encourage it.

 kronk wrote:
She didn't deserve to be harassed and asked her cup size. That's just fething rude.

But the world will continue to spin. And Matty will be groped again in some pub.

He's lucky he hasn't had a driveby handie yet.

Yes. Something bad happens, we all say "you shouldn't do that", and all becomes right with the world. That's how the world- Wait a minute.

People who do this sort of thing, don't care what we think.