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So if you've been watching BoW's 6th leaks, you might've caught the AP3 powersword comment Darrel made and that got me seriously thinking about the future of 2+.

What if all generic power weapons including fists and hammers become ap3? And the only CCWs that remain AP2 are weapons that roll 2d6 for armor pen. I can see GW doing this and heres why:
The only 2 units that really use and rely on 2+ armor saves are terminators and MANZ. If chainfists became the only way to get AP2 in close combat, it'd dramatically change the balance between tactical terminators and assault terminators. Right now everyone prefers TH/SS over your SB/PF option because of the exponentially higher survival rate in CC with storm shields but that would change as you'd be able to use your 2+ against most power weapons. In fact, this would give people a real reason to take chainfists other than just trying to slip a 2d6 armor pen in here and there.
This would be a dramatic buff to MANZ and tactical terminators while nerfing th/ss and being that GW has a habit of nerfing things people love to use and buffing things no one uses, I can easily see this happening.

Anyone else thinking this?

EDIT:
FAKE
So, current rumors put it as
Close Combat
*All Close Combat Weapons will have an AP value
* Power Weapons AP3
* Power Fists AP2
* Chainfists AP1

So my rant about possible AP3 power fists/THs is off. On the other hand, AP1 chainfists yo.

EDIT2:
That ended up being some comment on BoW, not a real rumor. So once again, we don't know the AP values of chainfist, DLC, powerfist, TH/SS, ect.

The way I heard it was:
PW AP3
PF Ap2
CF AP1

Lightcavalier wrote:The way I heard it was:
PW AP3
PF Ap2
CF AP1

that actually sounds really cool, i like it, it feels like it might add a little more complexity to 40k in terms of loadout options. Would this influence/remove the doubling of a characters strength in some way? (how you instantly get st10 on PF or something like that?) or would we not need that anymore and just run off ap values?

I don't like really like the idea. For a while( Maybe since the beggining I didn't play then, so I don't know) PW have been able to ignore all armour. So why change it? We have all come to know it as ignore armour, that's why we take power weapons.

Great White wrote:I don't like really like the idea. For a while( Maybe since the beggining I didn't play then, so I don't know) PW have been able to ignore all armour. So why change it? We have all come to know it as ignore armour, that's why we take power weapons.

agreed, but doesn't the game feel like everyone and their pet dog has power weapons now? essentially making armor irrelevant and forcing invul saves?...or maybe i play against to many gk armys loool

Well, I hope chain fists still become a rarity.
Powerfists you see everywhere.
Same with power weapons.
But i see chinfist termi squads are going to be more popular.

The more prevalent things the power weapon will affect at AP3 are terminators and Artificer Armor.

I'm not buying the AP1 CF, but it would make sense. That would give them S8 +2d6 against vehicles with +1 on the vehicle damage chart (AP1 modifier). I like it, but I don't believe it.

Well it gives people a reason to use SM honor guard.

kronk wrote:The more prevalent things the power weapon will affect at AP3 are terminators and Artificer Armor.

Did you mean AP2 there?

Indeed, it would make Honor Guard and Sangunary Guard and all the other units with just 2+ armor(with no Invuln) more viable.

I still don't believe this bit entirely.


Maybe they will go to a Str based AP system for power weapons. Like Str3 PWs are AP3, Str4 PWs are AP2, and Str5+ PWs are AP1(so PFs and CFs would be AP1 even on Guardsmen)

Hmm, this'd be terrible business for my DE army. It would leave pretty much just Disintegrators and Blasters / Dark Lances that could bring down Terminators. May not sound like a big deal, but for a close combat based army like mine, with a frequent opponent of mine fielding Death Wing equivalent... not great.

Alpharius wrote:

kronk wrote:The more prevalent things the power weapon will affect at AP3 are terminators and Artificer Armor.

Did you mean AP2 there?

Right! I meant the PF at AP2. I was getting my points mixed up.

The Power Weapon will no longer affect Terminator's armor save at AP3, which is a pretty big deal (my second, but un-expressed concern) and the reason I don't think/hope this rumor is real. We'll see, though.

It would make Banshees unable to kill termies.

We'll just have to see what their new codex does for them.

I actually really like this possible change. In 2nd edition power weapons and power fists were dramatically different in terms of strength, armor save modifier and overall feel. A power axe was basically just a better chain axe

People are complaining about it breaking certain armies...it'd be the easiest thing to erreta codexes in order to make AP2 CCS available where needed.

Yeah, Banshees could be Errated to have AP2 on the turn they charge or something.

It is an unnecessary spacemarine buff. Non marine armies tend to pay premiums for powerweapons and have very little access to powerfists. The suposed changes would make shooting the only viable way to deal with Terminators/ artificer armour. This in turn devalues the already overpriced non marine powerweapons ( Incubi, Banshees, possibly even Tyranid Warriors, depending on the faq ) even more.
AP values for close combat weapons are almost as bad. Marines are more or less save, not much will change for them. Orks and other thinly armoured cc units might lose their entire armoursave.
One could argue that losing a 5+ or a 6+ save isn't that much, but 33%/ 16% more casualties in cc for the affected units is a definitive and most unwelcome nerf.

terranarc wrote:while nerfing th/ss

How would it nerf th/ss? It would make them even more difficult to kill.

Great White wrote:It would make Banshees unable to kill termies.

It would give most armies severe difficulties with terminators. It would, essentially, entrench the ss/th (or ss/PF) terminators as a must-have selection for SM.

Yeah, how do TH?SS get nerfed?

By these rules, THs are still ignoring all armor saves(as they follow the rules for PFs) and PWs arn't ignoring their 2+ armor all the time anymore.

Testify wrote:People are complaining about it breaking certain armies...it'd be the easiest thing to erreta codexes in order to make AP2 CCS available where needed.

Now imagine the random pyskers with the AP3 power weapons rumors combined. You go from reroll wounds and 5++ saves to (oops, didn't get Doom!) no rerolls and 2+ saves. With a unit that typically dies easily even if it accomplishes the first goal. I know I can't make a full judgement until the actual release, but when most of the rumors have been a net loss for my army how much am I missing and how much needs to be changed in Errata?

It would be cool to see termies go up in price and things like carnifexes getting ap based on strength. A FEx should be able to rip just about anything in half no problem!

I could see a str based ap for ccw personally

I sincerely hope that monstrous creatures become AP1 since they more or less function as if they had chainfists, nothing would frustrate me more than my Trygons suddenly being incapable of touching meganobz and terminators. Plus, being AP1 means that vehicles would become easier to crack.

Would love this! Means goddam Incubi would not be able to chew through my terminators

What if there was a rule that two handed power weapons were ap 2 instead of ap 3? That should help most armies.

How would that help most armies? How many 2-handed power weapons are out there besides Daemon weapons and relic blades?

What about rending? Is that going to remain AP2?

Kain wrote:I sincerely hope that monstrous creatures become AP1 since they more or less function as if they had chainfists, nothing would frustrate me more than my Trygons suddenly being incapable of touching meganobz and terminators. Plus, being AP1 means that vehicles would become easier to crack.

Chainfists make you Initiative 1.

Probably, no real reason not to.