6th Edition Fluff?

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**CaptainLoken**

I'm not trying to be lazy, but I really don't feel like reading 100+ pages of posts to see if anything has been said about the Fluff in 6th Edition yet. Does anyone know about the newer Fluff?

Specifically, is it true that the Emperor charges the Ultramarines to "protect" the Tau, as their near immunity to Chaos is "Humanity's salvation"?

If this is true, I will not be playing 6th Edition...nor will I be purchasing any new GW stuff. Don't get me wrong, I like the Tau. Heck, I have 2,000+ points of Tau. But, I also have 8,000+ points of Ultramarines. I also have Black LIbrary books covering battles that the Ultramarines fought against the Tau, as well as all of the accounts in the timeline where the Tau and Ultramarines have clashed. If they are suddenly "Battle Brothers", as the Allies Chart seems to point out, then GW has become so desperate to sell miniatures, that I don't want to encourage them.

I play 40K because of the Fluff. Not because of the rules. Not because of the miniatures. I play for the Fluff. If, after all of these years, GW is suddenly going to change the Fluff so that they sell more Hammerheads, then I am done. It was bad enough when players started running Slaanesh deamons along with Khorne deamons. It was bad enough when the Blood Angels "ignored" the Necrons in order to stop a Tyranid invasion. But, when Space Marines start fighting with Orks and Tau...that's just too much.

That's like Hitler leading Captain America into battle. Or, like Darth Vader and Yoda teaming up to fight Boba Fet. Give me a break. There are just some things that should be sacred.

Now, I've been playing 40K since Rogue Trader days. I KNOW the Fluff has changed over the years. But, I am really happy with the way it has evolved over the years. If all of that means nothing now, then I am just not interested.

OK, I will get off omy my soapbox now. Sorry for the rant. I am just really looking for information before I spend more than $100.00 on a game that I may not want to play. Thank you.

**DA SPEED FREEK**

If you can't be bothered to search for the rules and don't like the allies in 6th ed then just simply play by 5th ed rules!

**Manchu**

I think it'll be a little tougher than that. How many guys do you know who played 4th edition rules since 5th came out. Oh, I know there are some but they are a tiny minority.

I think the larger point here is that GW has always played fast and loose with the fluff. Background info is just a facet of marketing. For most of us, our favorite fluff details are probably retcons of somebody else's beloved nostalgia.

Dropping 40k because you're not interested is one thing. Dropping it out of some sense of moral indignation is just silly.

**Jayo'r**

IMHO playing for the fluff is stupid. If you don't like gws fluff then make up your own

**Kaldor**

CaptainLoken wrote:I It was bad enough when the Blood Angels "ignored" the Necrons in order to stop a Tyranid invasion.

That made perfect sense under the circumstances, and so would this change.

**BlaxicanX**

CaptainLoken wrote:I'm not trying to be lazy, but I really don't feel like reading 100+ pages of posts to see if anything has been said about the Fluff in 6th Edition yet. Does anyone know about the newer Fluff?

Specifically, is it true that the Emperor charges the Ultramarines to "protect" the Tau, as their near immunity to Chaos is "Humanity's salvation"?

If this is true, I will not be playing 6th Edition...nor will I be purchasing any new GW stuff. Don't get me wrong, I like the Tau. Heck, I have 2,000+ points of Tau. But, I also have 8,000+ points of Ultramarines. I also have Black LIbrary books covering battles that the Ultramarines fought against the Tau, as well as all of the accounts in the timeline where the Tau and Ultramarines have clashed. If they are suddenly "Battle Brothers", as the Allies Chart seems to point out, then GW has become so desperate to sell miniatures, that I don't want to encourage them.

I play 40K because of the Fluff. Not because of the rules. Not because of the miniatures. I play for the Fluff. If, after all of these years, GW is suddenly going to change the Fluff so that they sell more Hammerheads, then I am done. It was bad enough when players started running Slaanesh deamons along with Khorne deamons. It was bad enough when the Blood Angels "ignored" the Necrons in order to stop a Tyranid invasion. But, when Space Marines start fighting with Orks and Tau...that's just too much.

That's like Hitler leading Captain America into battle. Or, like Darth Vader and Yoda teaming up to fight Boba Fet. Give me a break. There are just some things that should be sacred.

Now, I've been playing 40K since Rogue Trader days. I KNOW the Fluff has changed over the years. But, I am really happy with the way it has evolved over the years. If all of that means nothing now, then I am just not interested.

OK, I will get off omy my soapbox now. Sorry for the rant. I am just really looking for information before I spend more than $100.00 on a game that I may not want to play. Thank you.

WH40K is a fictional universe. It isn't actually real.

Sorry to break it to you.

**Omegus**

DA SPEED FREEK wrote:If you can't be bothered to search for the rules and don't like the allies in 6th ed then just simply play by 5th ed rules!

Wow, your reading comprehension is non-existent.

**Manchu**

Playing for the sake of the background is completely legitimate, especially considering that 40k is not the tightest, most balanced set of competitive rules out there ...

**1hadhq**

CaptainLoken wrote:I'm not trying to be lazy, but I really don't feel like reading 100+ pages of posts to see if anything has been said about the Fluff in 6th Edition yet. Does anyone know about the newer Fluff?
.

I think everybody was so focused on rules, they didn't care to report fluff.

Or there are zero changes... we'll see in a few days.

The catalogue, ie WD July still ran with extra grimdark and moar grimdark etc etc..

**Manchu**

The (alleged) Allies table indicates that SoB and BT barely get along but that SM and Tau are good buddies.

**jareddm**

Manchu wrote:The (alleged) Allies table indicates that SoB and BT barely get along but that SM and Tau are good buddies.

And by SM it most likely means Ultramarines specifically.

**1hadhq**

Manchu wrote:The (alleged) Allies table indicates that SoB and BT barely get along but that SM and Tau are good buddies.

This table is unfluffy.

Said that, IMO its based on game balance ( assuming balance is a part of the "cinematic" game they stated to aim for ) and we could point again towards a certain member of the design team to blame for this..but I think its too early for this.

PS: SoB and BT have a "unholy alliance" in this chart. So its a typo and will be fixed to "holy alliance".

PPS: don't see where in fluff or game those two deserve a lesser level of alliance then other imperial forces.

**Harriticus**

I too fell in love with 40k because of the fluff/background, not the rules or game. I think our types find this rulebooks new revisions harder to swallow then that.

A lot of the allied rules are certainly horrendous. I'll accept "allies of convinence" with SM and Eldar/Tau and I'll accept the IG would hire Ork mercenaries under the right conditions, but a few of the setups just make no sense whatsoever. Particularly:

-Tau and Daemons. Shouldn't even be able to see the other
-Imperial Guard and Daemons
-Space Marines being Brothers in Arms with the Tau but only Allies of Convinence with the SoB. Really, we're meant to accept that the SM find it easier to ally with Tau then the pious servants of the Emperor? What? This is particularly tue with Black Templars, who have multiple Xenos as higher-level allies then the SoB.
-Daemons and Dark Eldar. DE are utterly terrified of Daemons above all else, and Daemons crave Eldar souls above just about anything else. No foe would have them work together.

As you can see, Daemons allies in particular took a huge hit. I'm curious why GW didn't make a few like Daemons also unable to ally with anyone other than themselves and CSM. Daemons are more or less the same as Tyranids in viciousness, single-mindedness, and are also directed by a higher power. Do you really think the Chaos Gods care about holding some world against an Ork invasion? They would butcher everyone there, IG and Orks included.

This is all in the backdrop of course that the Space Marines and Tau don't just occasionally ally now, they're brothers in arms, the same as Marines and Imperial Guard. But really given other inconsistences and messes created by this, that abomination seems minor.

**Manchu**

Imperial Guard and Daemons at least makes sense when you consider people who want to make Traitor armies. I guess DE are really mostly averse to Slaanesh. I cannot for the life of me figure out the SoB/BT thing unless they are going to be portrayed as accusing one another of heresy.

**Lynata**

1hadhq wrote:PS: SoB and BT have a "unholy alliance" in this chart. So its a typo and will be fixed to "holy alliance".

Gonna fix this in my rulebook.

Manchu wrote:I cannot for the life of me figure out the SoB/BT thing unless they are going to be portrayed as accusing one another of heresy.

That is probably the best explanation I've heard so far.

**SilverMK2**

It is a pain that IG and CSM don't have the top level level alliance - I mean it is not like traiter guard and cultists have been in the Chaos fluff for quite some time...

**jareddm**

1hadhq wrote:PS: SoB and BT have a "unholy alliance" in this chart. So its a typo and will be fixed to "holy alliance".

There is no unholy alliance, that was just what it was called under one specific tournament. There's Battle Brothers(aka. sharing information and tactics), Allies of Convenience(aka. fighting next to each other, not with each other) and Desperate Allies(aka. fighting so as to screw over the other guy, who you plan to immediately attack as soon as the third guy is dead). Though I will admit it seems pretty damn weird that all the Imperium armies aren't at least Allies of convenience with one another.

SilverMK2 wrote:It is a pain that IG and CSM don't have the top level level alliance - I mean it is not like traiter guard and cultists have been in the Chaos fluff for quite some time...

Yes but cultists don't necessarily get along with CSM. Especially if they're not worshipers of the same god or if the CSM are one of the less chaos-aligned warbands, such as IW or NL

**SilverMK2**

jareddm wrote:Yes but cultists don't necessarily get along with CSM. Especially if they're not worshipers of the same god or if the CSM are one of the less chaos-aligned warbands, such as IW or NL

They generally get along in the same way that SM and IG get along

Hell, most of the time cultists seem to be seeded simply to be willing meat shields for the CSM/CD

And they certainly get along better than the fricking SM and all the xenos in the universe (although apparently not acording to this matrix

).

**Manchu**

Lynata wrote:
Manchu wrote:I cannot for the life of me figure out the SoB/BT thing unless they are going to be portrayed as accusing one another of heresy.
That is probably the best explanation I've heard so far.

My own pet theory about the BT is that they are crazy ass heretics, just this side of Chaos worship. And my pet theory about the SoB is that they are the faction that see through the self-deception of other factions. The SoB could hate the BT for so flagrantly defying the Codex in a mockery of piety and the BT could hate the SoB for daring to judge them, the truest sons of Rogal Dorn who they think of as the Emperor's most loyal son.

**Lynata**

jareddm wrote:Yes but cultists don't necessarily get along with CSM. Especially if they're not worshipers of the same god or if the CSM are one of the less chaos-aligned warbands, such as IW or NL

Might have deserved the option, though. CSM warbands are often accompanied by a posse of "lesser" warriors such as cultists and traitors who are part of the family, so to speak - even closer than Marines + IG.

Yeah, depending on the combination (which cult + which CSM Legion) it might not work out so well - but the same can be said about the Space Marines. Marines Malevolent anyone?

Manchu wrote:My own pet theory about the BT is that they are crazy ass heretics, just this side of Chaos worship. And my pet theory about the SoB is that they are the faction that see through the self-deception of other factions. The SoB could hate the BT for so flagrantly defying the Codex in a mockery of piety and the BT could hate the SoB for daring to judge them, the truest sons of Rogal Dorn who they think of as the Emperor's most loyal son.

Possibly, but it would require some new fluff then. Everything I've seen printed so far made them look fairly cool to the SoB's PoV. Maybe the 6E rulebook or the Codex will shed some light on this.

**Manchu**

I'm think the kind of "cultists" who follow CSM around will likely be covered in the next CSM dex. A traitor guard regiment, even one full of Chaos cultists, would not necessarily see itself as merely the pawns of one CSM faction or another.

**Harriticus**

We can explain-away why the SoB and BT would be on bad terms but at the end of the day, it makes no sense that they'd ally with the Eldar over the Sisters. I mean not only are they xenos, but they're also Psychic. Doesn't get much worse then that to a Templar. But apparently, Sisters are worse.

Yes, Sisters and BT can fight and yes they can decry each other as heretics. But still, they both are at least human and both at least follow the Emperor.

**Omegus**

A lot of people seem to be mistaking the allies chart for some tournament with the new ally chart in the rule book. If you see anything about "unholy alliance", you're looking at the wrong chart.

**Manchu**

Lynata wrote:Everything I've seen printed so far made them look fairly cool to the SoB's PoV.

The BT are very ambiguous. They are the most religiously emphatic of all the SM chapters but we can guess that, as successors to the IF, they do not actually worship the Emperor. That alone would make them suspicious in the eyes of the SoB. Also, they exist because Dorn insisted on simultaneously conceding and defying the Codex Astartes. Their very existence indicates treachery and yet they claim to be the most fanatically loyal of all. The SoB make a similar claim but they operate completely within the law (down to the technicalities of the law) unlike the openly non-compliant BTs. I can see a lot of grist for this mill. But before now, there was nothing printed that drew these contrasts explicitly.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Omegus wrote:A lot of people seem to be mistaking the allies chart for some tournament with the new ally chart in the rule book.

So that chart has nothing at all to do with 6th ed. and Tau and SM are not actually "brothers in arms"? Would be a relief to OP.

**Harriticus**

Omegus wrote:A lot of people seem to be mistaking the allies chart for some tournament with the new ally chart in the rule book.

So that chart has nothing at all to do with 6th ed. and Tau and SM are not actually "brothers in arms"? Would be a relief to OP.

**Lynata**

Manchu wrote:I'm think the kind of "cultists" who follow CSM around will likely be covered in the next CSM dex. A traitor guard regiment, even one full of Chaos cultists, would not necessarily see itself as merely the pawns of one CSM faction or another.

Possibly. In that case I suppose these Traitor Guards would be "impromptu" convertees, freshly turned from Imperial service.
Still, I wouldn't bet on this. That would make too much sense.

Harriticus wrote:they'd ally with the Eldar over the Sisters

Hahah, I didn't even notice that yet. Brilliant.

Omegus wrote:A lot of people seem to be mistaking the allies chart for some tournament with the new ally chart in the rule book. If you see anything about "unholy alliance", you're looking at the wrong chart.

Well, as far as I can see they only switched the names.

I had hoped the actual chart would be different from the tournament one, I really hoped. But it still looks 2/3 random. :(

**Manchu**

Frankly, this chart comes as a huge relief to me -- at least I know Sisters are mentioned in the rulebook!

**Akroma06**

Ok BT are not heretics for ignoring the codex astartes. They chose to not go along with Gulliman so lets leave it at that.

As for the chart thing. DE and daemons confuse me to no end...seriously no chance, its like eldar and daemons.

As for the BT and SoB...again I have no idea. I would think that they would probably be the closest aligned (battle brothers) after all they have similar goals. The other thing is why do the BT like the Eldar? The eldar symbolize all that the BT hate! I also don't know why BT and DA are battle bros. after all I do recall reading a little something about a crusade finding a fallen and then never being heard from again...DA were last one in the vecinity and now we are just ok with them hiding something?

**Manchu**

Akroma06 wrote:Ok BT are not heretics for ignoring the codex astartes. They chose to not go along with Gulliman so lets leave it at that.

At the time, Guilliman was basically in charge of the Imperium. The Codex was an attempt to rein in the Legions in the aftermath of the most profound disaster ever known to the Imperium -- one which had fatally wounded the Emperor himself. Choosing "not to go along" is a funny way of putting it.

**Harriticus**

Here's my personal take on what Allies Should be (and I still take into account the new horrible Necron fluff, that's an entirely different issue...)

Spoiler: