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I was under the impression that Necrons do not need allies, however I came across a rather (if I dare say it) broken combination for my Necron List.

Allies:
Big Mek
10 Boys w/ 1 Nob + Bosspole
10 Boys w/ 1 Nob + Bosspole

Necrons:
Overlord w/ CCB, SW, MSS, WS
7 Immortals w/ Night Scythe
8 Immortals w/ Night Scythe
5 Deathmarks
Doom Scythe
Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge
Aegis Defence Line w/ Comms Relay
Cryptek w/ Voltaic Staff
Cryptek w/ Voltaic Staff
Cryptek w/ Solar Pulse

Now the point of allies here is to keep the orks under 10 so they are not fearless and thus can go to ground. Place an objective, of which I will get to place a minimum of 1 in 4/6 of the missions behind the Aegis Defence Line, and keep the orks behind it as well, going to ground for a 2+ cover save, meaning I need to fail 18 2+ saves for you to kick me off of the objective.

I'm not sure the 5+ cover from the KFF is worth it so I could drop it, drop the extra immortals and footslog a few warriors up the board?

What do you think on this?

you need 2 more orks boys, 10 min. You don't need 2 bosspoles, dump the one from the Nob. Or you could just go 10 gretchins and a herder for a few less points, they aren't fearless and can do the same thing you want the boys to do.

the wording from the FAQ means you should be able to have the KFF following your non vehicle units and granting them a 5+ cover save as well though. So you could have him running up behind your units.

Yeah, the mobz are too small. But Orks have more to offer than two small Boyz mobz that may run away after the first casualities.

That is shameful from me, I have the ork codex. Well 10 ork boys in each with a nob with a bosspole - reasoning behind that is so if I take casulties, they are much more likely to remain on the objective (Ld7 rerolling is a 83% pass rate). The Ork FAQ does in fact say friendly models - however allies of convenience are treated as enemy models that you can't shoot at etc.. Plus all my vehicles have the jink special rule as well so that's ok.

So with that I'm potentially going to have Big Mek, 9 boys + Nob with Bosspole x 2, so that is 20 2+ saves that need to be taken out to claim an objective - do you think this is worth it?

The only thing with the gretchin is that they have leadership 7 with no possibility of rerolls - and I want to keep my squad on the objective as long as possible.. so for 150 points I have 20 models with a 2+ cover save behind my defence line on 1 or 2 objectives.. have fun getting them off.

Well, I'd take 20 (shooty) Ork Boyz which are absolutely fearless.

Grots are cheaper? And lootas would love to also chill behind the Aegis Defense Line and shoot things.

I don't want the unit to be fearless because then they cannot voluntarily go to ground. Units going to ground behind an Aegis Defence line get +2 to their cover save.. so a 4+ cover save goes to a 2+ - try shifting 20 bodies like that off of it.

The reason why I want to have boys instead of grots is because one, they are better at shooting (have 2 shots rather than 1 but at a lower BS) and can have a nob with a bosspole to reroll their leadership if they take 25% casulties. I am tempted to put a Big Mek with Shokk Attack Gun with a squad of 10 Lootas for some dakka at the back however.

Would a whirlwind pretty much wreck that unit though?

Each cover ignoring weapons would do this. Not only a Whirlwind but also a Thunder cannon which is more popular in an SM army these days.

What units can take a Thunderfire cannon? The thing is, if they have that weapon - great.. they take out one squad of the boys. It is also those weapons which I fear for my barges which they are in fact not shooting at. The secondary reason is so that I have a model in base contact with the comms relay to reroll my failed reserve rolls, giving an 8/9 chance for each individual unit to come on giving me a more reliable alpha strike.

So looking at those weapons which have the ignores cover special rule (reasonably few and far between in my local meta) or which are barrage - slightly more prominent but then a very difficult choice is made - do you shoot at my AV13 vehicles coming with 8 TL Str7 shots, Tesla, Arc, or do you attempt to kill 3/4 of a squad of boys.

I am not a fan of looking at things in a vacuum because in that sense anything can be countered, it is the way the army is built in order to make these decisions very difficult for my opponent.

xStuuy wrote:That is shameful from me, I have the ork codex. Well 10 ork boys in each with a nob with a bosspole - reasoning behind that is so if I take casulties, they are much more likely to remain on the objective (Ld7 rerolling is a 83% pass rate). The Ork FAQ does in fact say friendly models - however allies of convenience are treated as enemy models that you can't shoot at etc.. Plus all my vehicles have the jink special rule as well so that's ok.

So with that I'm potentially going to have Big Mek, 9 boys + Nob with Bosspole x 2, so that is 20 2+ saves that need to be taken out to claim an objective - do you think this is worth it?

The only thing with the gretchin is that they have leadership 7 with no possibility of rerolls - and I want to keep my squad on the objective as long as possible.. so for 150 points I have 20 models with a 2+ cover save behind my defence line on 1 or 2 objectives.. have fun getting them off.

The ork FAQ says all units get a 5+ and friendly vehicles count as obscured. so any non vehicle unit near the big mek gets the save, friendly, enemy, other.

are you trying to take 2 bosspoles? You only get 1 reroll so you might as well save the points and only get 1.

You orks will be fearless til they lose someone though, mek + 10 boys = fearless. Mek+ 19 gretchin + 1 runtherder is a little bit cheaper and they're not fearless. The squig hound the runtherder comes with grants them a reroll for eating D3 gretchins.

xStuuy wrote:What units can take a Thunderfire cannon? The thing is, if they have that weapon - great.. they take out one squad of the boys. It is also those weapons which I fear for my barges which they are in fact not shooting at. The secondary reason is so that I have a model in base contact with the comms relay to reroll my failed reserve rolls, giving an 8/9 chance for each individual unit to come on giving me a more reliable alpha strike.

So looking at those weapons which have the ignores cover special rule (reasonably few and far between in my local meta) or which are barrage - slightly more prominent but then a very difficult choice is made - do you shoot at my AV13 vehicles coming with 8 TL Str7 shots, Tesla, Arc, or do you attempt to kill 3/4 of a squad of boys.

I am not a fan of looking at things in a vacuum because in that sense anything can be countered, it is the way the army is built in order to make these decisions very difficult for my opponent.

Thunderfire cannons can't damage your vehicles. Neither can most weapon which ignores cover. If your opponent takes a Thunderfire cannon, it's exclusively there to shoot infantry, and he'll use that opportunity to take the appropriate amount of anti-tank.

Necrons don't have a problem with controlling objectives, and you're hamstringing yourself by relying on a gimmick.

DarkHound wrote:

xStuuy wrote:What units can take a Thunderfire cannon? The thing is, if they have that weapon - great.. they take out one squad of the boys. It is also those weapons which I fear for my barges which they are in fact not shooting at. The secondary reason is so that I have a model in base contact with the comms relay to reroll my failed reserve rolls, giving an 8/9 chance for each individual unit to come on giving me a more reliable alpha strike.

So looking at those weapons which have the ignores cover special rule (reasonably few and far between in my local meta) or which are barrage - slightly more prominent but then a very difficult choice is made - do you shoot at my AV13 vehicles coming with 8 TL Str7 shots, Tesla, Arc, or do you attempt to kill 3/4 of a squad of boys.

I am not a fan of looking at things in a vacuum because in that sense anything can be countered, it is the way the army is built in order to make these decisions very difficult for my opponent.

Thunderfire cannons can't damage your vehicles. Neither can most weapon which ignores cover. If your opponent takes a Thunderfire cannon, it's exclusively there to shoot infantry, and he'll use that opportunity to take the appropriate amount of anti-tank.

Necrons don't have a problem with controlling objectives, and you're hamstringing yourself by relying on a gimmick.

flamers cannot hurt vehicles either, but boy are we going to be seeing a lot of them in 6th.

Well the 5+ cover to other units is okay - but then again my other units on foot are immortals, and deathmarks so I doubt they would be in range considering they are kept in reserve.

Sorry, I'm 2 squads of 10 boys, one boy in each squad upgraded to a nob with a bosspole to reroll leadership. The big mek is just going to be hiding by himself, perhaps I'll give him a shokk attack gun instead.

Since I have the models for boys I think I will use them because of their superior shooting ability, especially on overwatch. But I think this could have some potential but we will have to see how it translates onto the table.

What is your reasoning on necrons not having a hard time controlling objectives? With random game length and as I use MSU of immortals, if the game doesn't end on turn 5 I have 5 standard guys with a 3+ save who can quite easily be gunned down

On the general idea of this thread and specifically the idea given.

If you went flyer heavy then having orks to keep you from being tabled on any given turn would be a reasonable idea.

Your section of orks does not do this. Your necron section isn't really needing this.

OK well if your set on the boys then, Give you Nob a big shoota as well. That way while your camping you can take pot shots at things. Plus he's a character so he can pick out targets.

It was just an idea, and to me it still seems to be able to camp at least one objective magnificently..and given how 2/3 of the missions I will place an objective, 20 2+ saves is nothing to laugh at .. Also one of the primary functions I had for it would be the rerollable reserve roll - how would it be better to incorporate the aegis defence line with comms relay with my type of necron list given how I have nothing foot slogging to use the relay?

xStuuy wrote:That is shameful from me, I have the ork codex. Well 10 ork boys in each with a nob with a bosspole - reasoning behind that is so if I take casulties, they are much more likely to remain on the objective (Ld7 rerolling is a 83% pass rate). The Ork FAQ does in fact say friendly models - however allies of convenience are treated as enemy models that you can't shoot at etc.. Plus all my vehicles have the jink special rule as well so that's ok.

So with that I'm potentially going to have Big Mek, 9 boys + Nob with Bosspole x 2, so that is 20 2+ saves that need to be taken out to claim an objective - do you think this is worth it?

The only thing with the gretchin is that they have leadership 7 with no possibility of rerolls - and I want to keep my squad on the objective as long as possible.. so for 150 points I have 20 models with a 2+ cover save behind my defence line on 1 or 2 objectives.. have fun getting them off.

Grots reroll...the free squig hound on your herda eats d3 of them and they reroll...

If i'm reading it right your ork contingent comes out to something like 235 pts. You can just buy 18 warriors for that much which are better at coms relay squatting than the orks are. And a shokk atk gun is a really really bad idea. Aside from the normal unreliable strength and scatter its oddball results were written around the ork codex where normally you just lose a chunk of boyz, you really don't want to shoot your own deathmarks or immortals on a bad roll or get the comms squad sucked into a black hole or fling your 85pt ally hq across the board into assault. You also can't protect your mek as joining any unit makes it size 11 and fearless so he either gets shot for an easy vp if he tries to shokk gun or run up field or he hides in the woods as a total waste of 35 points.

If you're willing to shell out 60pts for a shokk gun you can just take another 10 boyz. Or trade all the boyz for 53 grots and 5 runtherds. Or take tau instead for less bodies but better gun lines and easier access to more reliable ap2 shooting.
Or better yet, you only have 4 reserved units and 3 of them will come in on turn 2 with rerolls, you don't really need rerolls for the one unit left on turn 3 that will probably show up anyway. Just take Orikan to effect your reserves for the one turn it really matters and leave out the allies and the aegis, spend the extra 140pts on some backfield scoring unit or buy another nightscythe or whatever.

Yeah, looking at it the cost of the big mek just makes it better to take a big squad of warriors and just have them go to ground behind it instead.. Well I'm thinking of 2 smaller squads so I can get 2 objectives behind the defence line