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Just a question, but does the Dakka Community think going all-infantry is still viable at Tournaments?

Tyranids do it quite well. Otherwise, most armies need a few vehicles. Less than 5th to be sure, but be it flyers, Predators, Venoms or Hammerheads, most armies like at least a few vehicles.

Moving to Tactics.

IMO all-infantry is considerably more viable in 6th than in 5th. All-infantry lists are regularly winning tournaments now.

Mech isn't entirely dead, by any means, but it's no longer the default way to go.

Too many eggs in one basket, I'd say. Unless you go for like, a deathstar. Even then, it's really slow, easily countered, and will struggle against AV13-14 and Flyers.

Possible to do, but must be done well.

Not sure how it is for other armies but for IG it'd be difficult. Probably doable on some scale, but I haven't figured it out yet.

Nids and Orks can probably still pull it off well, and local SW and chaos players seem to be doing without vehicles just fine as well, so maybe we'll see a surge in hordes of MEQ footsloggin some day.

IG vehicles are still very good and points-effective. It's harder to stop shooty vehicles from shooting. Transports aren't so good for assaulting/carrying assaulty units anymore.

I just won a tournament using an all infantry list. I didn't have anything that moved over 6 inches, but I did have a few units that deep struck. Coincidentally my opponent for the final round also had an all infantry list.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Not sure how it is for other armies but for IG it'd be difficult. Probably doable on some scale, but I haven't figured it out yet.

Nids and Orks can probably still pull it off well, and local SW and chaos players seem to be doing without vehicles just fine as well, so maybe we'll see a surge in hordes of MEQ footsloggin some day.

There are easy fixes for footslogging hordes: pie-plates(templates), lots and lots of templates. I could easily put a dent in MEQ hordes with vindicators or Plasma Russes, not to mention plasma cannon devs or artillery. I can also order nids and orks extra crispy from KFC flamers, or just plain frag them. Did i forget to mention Spess Cannons?

All joking aside, there are always going to be things that can chew hordes to bits no matter who you use, MEQs or 'nids; if i got templates, its not your lucky day.

Chaos Daemons tend to do this really well ^^

 ace101 wrote:

There are easy fixes for footslogging hordes: pie-plates(templates), lots and lots of templates. I could easily put a dent in MEQ hordes with vindicators or Plasma Russes, not to mention plasma cannon devs or artillery. I can also order nids and orks extra crispy from KFC flamers, or just plain frag them. Did i forget to mention Spess Cannons?

All joking aside, there are always going to be things that can chew hordes to bits no matter who you use, MEQs or 'nids; if i got templates, its not your lucky day.

How do templates help with Tervigons?

All joking aside, Infantry is viable, and templates are great (especially the barrage variaty!)

 jifel wrote:

 ace101 wrote:

There are easy fixes for footslogging hordes: pie-plates(templates), lots and lots of templates. I could easily put a dent in MEQ hordes with vindicators or Plasma Russes, not to mention plasma cannon devs or artillery. I can also order nids and orks extra crispy from KFC flamers, or just plain frag them. Did i forget to mention Spess Cannons?

All joking aside, there are always going to be things that can chew hordes to bits no matter who you use, MEQs or 'nids; if i got templates, its not your lucky day.

How do templates help with Tervigons?

All joking aside, Infantry is viable, and templates are great (especially the barrage variaty!)

Speaking of which, how would barrage effect an ordinance weapon like an OB(orbital Bombardment?), since it is now barrage via FAQ article.

Hm... I guess you wouldn't need LoS, unless it's a part if the rule. (I'm assuming we're talking a MoO here.) and then it'd be a normal barrage weapon, so wounds allocated from middle of the blast.

I think we need to consider what armies CAN pull off an all infantry list at tourny level. Guard and nids are obvious candidates and already mentioned. I have been running an all infantry BA list (1 DC drop pod) and an aegis with quad gun. It's been working well but I am unsure how it would fare against competative tourny builds.

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:
I think we need to consider what armies CAN pull off an all infantry list at tourny level. Guard and nids are obvious candidates and already mentioned. I have been running an all infantry BA list (1 DC drop pod) and an aegis with quad gun. It's been working well but I am unsure how it would fare against competative tourny builds.

Always overlooking the obvious choice, Chaos Daemons

With all their recent buffs/FMC's

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:
I think we need to consider what armies CAN pull off an all infantry list at tourny level. Guard and nids are obvious candidates and already mentioned. I have been running an all infantry BA list (1 DC drop pod) and an aegis with quad gun. It's been working well but I am unsure how it would fare against competative tourny builds.

Guard actually will have a tough time at this. Our troops are pretty good, but at any point level higher than 1000, we'd be too lacking in our strongest two suits: tanks and flyers. That is where our killing power is, really.

 TheCaptain wrote:

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:
I think we need to consider what armies CAN pull off an all infantry list at tourny level. Guard and nids are obvious candidates and already mentioned. I have been running an all infantry BA list (1 DC drop pod) and an aegis with quad gun. It's been working well but I am unsure how it would fare against competative tourny builds.

Guard actually will have a tough time at this. Our troops are pretty good, but at any point level higher than 1000, we'd be too lacking in our strongest two suits: tanks and flyers. That is where our killing power is, really.

Exactly. Guardsmen are pros at taking hits. They're not great at dishing it out. They can annihilate vehicles pretty well through sheer volume of special and heavy weapons, but we lack killing power against hordes and other massed infantry.

A 100% guard infantry list can handle vehicle spam and termi spam, but that's about it, and even there, they're in for a hard fought match without armored support.

Absolutely.

"still" viable? When was it ever viable in the first place? Tournaments are set up so as to make foot lists bad at tournaments, and I hardly think that that has changed. Have they stopped having time limits? Have they started having real terrain on boards?

Meanwhile, 6th was hard on foot lists, especially hordes, and ESPECIALLY assault hordes. Mech lists trade of durability for killing power and coming out roughly neutral for it is much more favorable than what happened to more foot-centered lists.

Tournaments are designed to favor mech lists, and 6th ed is designed to favor shooty lists. Therefore, the best list for a tournament is going to be a shooty mech list. Exactly the same as it was in 5th.

 Ailaros wrote:
"still" viable? When was it ever viable in the first place? Tournaments are set up so as to make foot lists bad at tournaments, and I hardly think that that has changed. Have they stopped having time limits? Have they started having real terrain on boards?

Meanwhile, 6th was hard on foot lists, especially hordes, and ESPECIALLY assault hordes. Mech lists trade of durability for killing power and coming out roughly neutral for it is much more favorable than what happened to more foot-centered lists.

Tournaments are designed to favor mech lists, and 6th ed is designed to
favor shooty lists. Therefore, the best list for a tournament is going to be a shooty mech list. Exactly the same as it was in 5th.

I seen a all terminator list mop up at tournament for two weeks now. Had some guy named balio or something. Same tournament a plague marine list get second two times in a row.

lynxstrife wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:
"still" viable? When was it ever viable in the first place? Tournaments are set up so as to make foot lists bad at tournaments, and I hardly think that that has changed. Have they stopped having time limits? Have they started having real terrain on boards?

Meanwhile, 6th was hard on foot lists, especially hordes, and ESPECIALLY assault hordes. Mech lists trade of durability for killing power and coming out roughly neutral for it is much more favorable than what happened to more foot-centered lists.

Tournaments are designed to favor mech lists, and 6th ed is designed to
favor shooty lists. Therefore, the best list for a tournament is going to be a shooty mech list. Exactly the same as it was in 5th.

I seen a all terminator list mop up at tournament for two weeks now. Had some guy named balio or something. Same tournament a plague marine list get second two times in a row.

Terminator lists don't have to take 150+ infantry models per game

There has been some talk recently in the GK tactics thread about an all infantry GK army.

Something like 6 x 10man Strike Squads, supported by divination Inquisitors and Dreadknights. Seems scary as hell on paper, would love to see it in action.

So just tackling the time constraint issue, are we moving in the direction that marines might be able to pull off foot lists? If GK can do it, can BA, SW, codex or BT do it also?

MrMoustaffa wrote:Terminator lists don't have to take 150+ infantry models per game

Furthermore, terminators bonk horribly when up against weight of fire. You know, the kind of weight of fire put out by horde armies which have been specifically made uncompetitive at tournaments.

Also, a couple of people winning a tournament here and there with a foot list does not a large data set supporting foot lists make. What is much more likely is that there are just more people giving foot lists a try, and thus the number of wins will increase by virtue of the fact that there are more of them. I'm sure once people get settled back into mech lists, things will go back to the way they were before.

And all it's going to take is the first guard player showing up with a leafblower containing a colossus squad, or the first chaos player who takes two flamer helldrakes to show up, and that will be the end of that.

 Dunwich wrote:
There has been some talk recently in the GK tactics thread about an all infantry GK army.

Something like 6 x 10man Strike Squads, supported by divination Inquisitors and Dreadknights. Seems scary as hell on paper, would love to see it in action.

Friends running something close to this, with Tau allies. Crisis suit squad/HQ 2 Firewarrior squads 2Broadsides(upgrade to target seperate units) for that Hard hitting power GK misses at range.

It's pretty nasty, but I roll saves like a champ. yay daemon flying cheese

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:
So just tackling the time constraint issue, are we moving in the direction that marines might be able to pull off foot lists? If GK can do it, can BA, SW, codex or BT do it also?

SW Absolutely can. Between longfangs being pure beastmode, and their solid troops choices, backed by powerful (and numerous) HQ's, it can be, and is regularly done.

 Ailaros wrote:
Tournaments are designed to favor mech lists, and 6th ed is designed to favor shooty lists. Therefore, the best list for a tournament is going to be a shooty mech list. Exactly the same as it was in 5th.

Then why is it that major 6th ed tournaments are being won by foot lists? Last time I checked, the NOVA Open was won by foot Marines with blob IG, and Feast of Blades was won by Dæmons.

I always play all infantry with my Daemons.

3X 30 Boyz Mobs with Mad Dok Grotsnik and a KFF Big Mek were pretty much unstoppable with 30 Lootas providing fire support.

 Ghenghis Jon wrote:
3X 30 Boyz Mobs with Mad Dok Grotsnik and a KFF Big Mek were pretty much unstoppable with 30 Lootas providing fire support.

Even then, template happy armies can still make your boyz and lootas cry. With the FAQ, Whirlwinds have Large Blast, OB has large blast, LRRs, flamers, and just generally lots of dakka can melt horde armies. Shooty mechs have priority over hordes in 6th.

 Mannahnin wrote:
IMO all-infantry is considerably more viable in 6th than in 5th. All-infantry lists are regularly winning tournaments now.

Mech isn't entirely dead, by any means, but it's no longer the default way to go.

This.....

Especially when your playing NOVA format, infantry lists are extremely strong.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
Chaos Daemons tend to do this really well ^^

Especially considering how strong daemons are in the current meta.