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 shamikebab wrote:
I think pretty much every style has had some sort of boost, in order I'd say probably:

Windriders - jetbikes boost and other skimmers BS4
Swordwind - Most of the Aspects have got buffed nicely
Wraith - Wraithknight, Wraithlord no longer twin linked, wraithblades
Footdar - Boost to aspects and Guardians definitely more effective.

The only thing that seems slightly worse is psychic powers, but perhaps we're just less reliant on them this time.

I should reiterate... it's not the boosts they were looking for

Sadly, random warlock powers. But if you do get one it's sweet. Rending jetbike terminators.

So, what about the Mantle of the Laughing God? It's not cheap, but it grants H&R, Shrouded and Stealth (guaranteeing a 4+ cover save at all times at a minimum), and allows you to re-roll failed cover saves. You do lose the Independent part of Independent Characters. Clearly, it's meant to give you the equivalent of a Harlequin Solitaire, who roams the battlefield alone, never able to join any other unit.

From what I can see, the only three characters that can potentially get this are the Autarch, Farseer and Spirit Seer. Also, it does not seem to preclude any other wargear or bonuses.

So, you could potentially have a WS/BS 6 Autarch on a Jetbike with a Banshee Mask (opponents strike at I -5, which guarantees his I 6 will always strike first -- thanks to his plasma grenades) with a Fusion Gun and the Shard of Anaris for about 180 points. You'd be fearless, St 5, T 4 with a 4+ invulnerable and a re-rollable 2+ coversave (1+ if you go flat out, right?) capable of inflicting instant death in CC -- and any vehicle the fusion gun fails to take out can be hit by your haywire grenades.

Is there a better combo out there? You can make your Spiritseer into a Solitaire and you still get the benefit of Telepathy/Runes of Battle and making Wraithguard troops. Farseer could be interesting if you roll up the Death Mission power, but that's not a guarantee, unfortunately.

Any other thoughts on how to best use this?

 felixander wrote:

 shamikebab wrote:
I think pretty much every style has had some sort of boost, in order I'd say probably:

Windriders - jetbikes boost and other skimmers BS4
Swordwind - Most of the Aspects have got buffed nicely
Wraith - Wraithknight, Wraithlord no longer twin linked, wraithblades
Footdar - Boost to aspects and Guardians definitely more effective.

The only thing that seems slightly worse is psychic powers, but perhaps we're just less reliant on them this time.

I should reiterate... it's not the boosts they were looking for

You can't always get what you want. But if you try sometimes... You get what you need.

 pretre wrote:

 felixander wrote:

 shamikebab wrote:
I think pretty much every style has had some sort of boost, in order I'd say probably:

Windriders - jetbikes boost and other skimmers BS4
Swordwind - Most of the Aspects have got buffed nicely
Wraith - Wraithknight, Wraithlord no longer twin linked, wraithblades
Footdar - Boost to aspects and Guardians definitely more effective.

The only thing that seems slightly worse is psychic powers, but perhaps we're just less reliant on them this time.

I should reiterate... it's not the boosts they were looking for

You can't always get what you want. But if you try sometimes... You get what you need.

hey!!! that's a song!!

I dig it

Lets have some sympathy for the devil!

Goobi2 wrote:
Normal Reapers can get the Krak missile variant for a little less than 10 extra points.

You can say 9 or 8 points you know. Being cryptic doesn't help anyway.

And is that per model or per unit?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Goobi2 wrote:
Normal Reapers can get the Krak missile variant for a little less than 10 extra points.

You can say 9 or 8 points you know. Being cryptic doesn't help anyway.

And is that per model or per unit?

Per model it seems.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Goobi2 wrote:
Normal Reapers can get the Krak missile variant for a little less than 10 extra points.

You can say 9 or 8 points you know. Being cryptic doesn't help anyway.

And is that per model or per unit?

Yeah, I thought we were past that whole 'My Wraithknight costs as much as 80 smoke launchers' business.

I still don't understand how most people see the locks as being nerfed. Everyone seems to be only thinking about splitting them up while I think their greatest threntgh lies in functioning as a council. With a bit of luck you'll have one or more of your favorite debuffs. So failing your test isn't the end of the world.

Give a couple of termies the -1 save malediction and see your dark reapers and prisms eat them alive.

SS termies charged your wraithguard? Apply the -1str malediction and now they're wounding your wraithguard on 4+.

Spam snipers and EML's and apply the -3 ld malediction and see the enemy fail almost half their pinnig tests.

Your opponent has a psyker heavy army and you don't want to risk witch rolls? Simple, just use the blessings on your council instead, they benefit quite well from 4 out of the 6 blessings.

Your opponent will think twice before he gets anywhere near these guys thus giving you a huge area of denial. Used well in conjunction with the rest of your army a seercouncil will be nothing to sneeze at. They're probably the most versatile unit we have now in an army of specialists. (beside spiders maybe but those guys are just OP)

To the lucky people who already have their codices (mine won't ship 'till Wednesday as my order included items that were store only... "yay")
Prisms can still boost each other?

Even with the force org not getting the autarch boost it needed, still thinking, rangers, storm guardians in WSs, and three warp spider squads.

Did they give warp spiders back their flame templates or do they somehow still shoot solid rounds of webbing?

 Popenfresh wrote:

Give a couple of termies the -1 save malediction and see your dark reapers and prisms eat them alive.

"One enemy unit within 18" has -1 Armour Save"

I'm looking forward to seeing the first grognard who tries to use the literal RAW interpretation of this power, and claim it makes his power armour go from 3+ to 2+...

Col. Dash wrote:
Even with the force org not getting the autarch boost it needed, still thinking, rangers, storm guardians in WSs, and three warp spider squads.

Did they give warp spiders back their flame templates or do they somehow still shoot solid rounds of webbing?

No its assault 2, Str6, monofiliment which is rending vs. infantry only and +1Str vs. models with <3I. So str 7 vs. vehicles. Their jump generator allows them to go 6+2d6"

Col. Dash wrote:
Even with the force org not getting the autarch boost it needed, still thinking, rangers, storm guardians in WSs, and three warp spider squads.

Did they give warp spiders back their flame templates or do they somehow still shoot solid rounds of webbing?

Spiders kept the same gun 2 shot Strength 6 but it turn to Strength 7 against vehicles and anything i3 or less I used them as tank hunters before 3 squads of 5 and they only got better... and cheaper points wise!

 Shandara wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Goobi2 wrote:
Normal Reapers can get the Krak missile variant for a little less than 10 extra points.

You can say 9 or 8 points you know. Being cryptic doesn't help anyway.

And is that per model or per unit?

Per model it seems.

Last i Checked it was just the exarch, not the entire unit. Which sucks balls.

 Popenfresh wrote:
I still don't understand how most people see the locks as being nerfed. Everyone seems to be only thinking about splitting them up while I think their greatest threntgh lies in functioning as a council. With a bit of luck you'll have one or more of your favorite debuffs. So failing your test isn't the end of the world.

Give a couple of termies the -1 save malediction and see your dark reapers and prisms eat them alive.

SS termies charged your wraithguard? Apply the -1str malediction and now they're wounding your wraithguard on 4+.

Spam snipers and EML's and apply the -3 ld malediction and see the enemy fail almost half their pinnig tests.

Your opponent has a psyker heavy army and you don't want to risk witch rolls? Simple, just use the blessings on your council instead, they benefit quite well from 4 out of the 6 blessings.

Your opponent will think twice before he gets anywhere near these guys thus giving you a huge area of denial. Used well in conjunction with the rest of your army a seercouncil will be nothing to sneeze at. They're probably the most versatile unit we have now in an army of specialists. (beside spiders maybe but those guys are just OP)

I agree Popenfresh...kinda....I like all the buffs but counting on the maeldictions....they have two problems

18" range
psychic powers are before movement.

That means you needed to be within 18" of the damn terminator the turn BEFORE then he moves up shoots you maybe assaults you....alittle to close for comfort for such an expensive unit. NOT SAYING IT ISNT DOABLE, but it is not as simple or as safe as it could be.

Even if you put them on jetbikes which can charge a country mile, you might have been out of range to hit the target you want to charge with all the maledictions you wanted to use.

So which is better - our brotherly version of poison everything or our upgraded ninja stars?

 xttz wrote:

 Popenfresh wrote:

Give a couple of termies the -1 save malediction and see your dark reapers and prisms eat them alive.

"One enemy unit within 18" has -1 Armour Save"

I'm looking forward to seeing the first grognard who tries to use the literal RAW interpretation of this power, and claim it makes his power armour go from 3+ to 2+...

As funny as that would be I don't think anyone, even amongst 40k community, would have that kind of audacity.

This got me thinking though, cover saves differ from armor saves so I'm pretty sure you can't raise/decreased cover throws, but I'm wondering if the buff/debuff also applies to inv. saves...

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
So which is better - our brotherly version of poison everything or our upgraded ninja stars?

It depends heavily on your meta. If you fight orks/gaunts, guard/daemon hordes all the time, the shurikens are usually better. After all, a 4+ poinson weapon used on a T3 guardsmen is worse than a plain s4 bolter.

If you see lots of nidzilla, plague marines, and such, poison may come out a bit ahead. But on average, I think shuriken stuff beats poison now.

 Popenfresh wrote:

 xttz wrote:

 Popenfresh wrote:

Give a couple of termies the -1 save malediction and see your dark reapers and prisms eat them alive.

"One enemy unit within 18" has -1 Armour Save"

I'm looking forward to seeing the first grognard who tries to use the literal RAW interpretation of this power, and claim it makes his power armour go from 3+ to 2+...

As funny as that would be I don't think anyone, even amongst 40k community, would have that kind of audacity.

This got me thinking though, cover saves differ from armor saves so I'm pretty sure you can't raise/decreased cover throws, but I'm wondering if the buff/debuff also applies to inv. saves...

put them on jetbikes so they have a 2+/4++ and a 3++ cover!! noice!!!!

What in the army can capably deal with 1 or 2 Great Unclean Ones with Iron arm?

 Sephyr wrote:

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
So which is better - our brotherly version of poison everything or our upgraded ninja stars?

It depends heavily on your meta. If you fight orks/gaunts, guard/daemon hordes all the time, the shurikens are usually better. After all, a 4+ poinson weapon used on a T3 guardsmen is worse than a plain s4 bolter.

If you see lots of nidzilla, plague marines, and such, poison may come out a bit ahead. But on average, I think shuriken stuff beats poison now.

Big difference thou is Guardian vs Cabalite range, 12 vs 24". At same cost.

 airmang wrote:
What in the army can capably deal with 1 or 2 Great Unclean Ones with Iron arm?

Guardians. Jetbikes. Heck, everything with Shuris.

 pretre wrote:

 airmang wrote:
What in the army can capably deal with 1 or 2 Great Unclean Ones with Iron arm?

Guardians. Jetbikes. Heck, everything with Shuris.

Not sure how Shuriken cats are going to hurt T8+? All they do is become AP2.

 Sephyr wrote:

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
So which is better - our brotherly version of poison everything or our upgraded ninja stars?

It depends heavily on your meta. If you fight orks/gaunts, guard/daemon hordes all the time, the shurikens are usually better. After all, a 4+ poinson weapon used on a T3 guardsmen is worse than a plain s4 bolter.

If you see lots of nidzilla, plague marines, and such, poison may come out a bit ahead. But on average, I think shuriken stuff beats poison now.

Don't forget Bladestorm wins or ties when it's 3+ armor save (assuming there's no cover or invuln backup). So Shuriken is actually better against Plague Marines and most Nids.

 airmang wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 airmang wrote:
What in the army can capably deal with 1 or 2 Great Unclean Ones with Iron arm?

Guardians. Jetbikes. Heck, everything with Shuris.

Not sure how Shuriken cats are going to hurt T8+? All they do is become AP2.

To Wound 6 = autowound

The 12 inch range on the catapults is not that bad.

People forget that almost all the eldar have fleet and fleet lets you RE-ROLL run rolls.

So you are looking at moving 6 , then a 3-4 inch run plus the 12 inch range, is a 21-22 inch threat range.

And when it comes to board control and moving re-rolling run rolls will be big in the hands of good player.

 airmang wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 airmang wrote:
What in the army can capably deal with 1 or 2 Great Unclean Ones with Iron arm?

Guardians. Jetbikes. Heck, everything with Shuris.

Not sure how Shuriken cats are going to hurt T8+? All they do is become AP2.

From the first post:

I can tell you their Shuriken catapults are still 12", although with the new Bladestorm rule(rolls of 6 to wound always wound at AP 2, no effect on vehicles

So every model in the army can hurt your T9million guy.

Does that mean they auto -wound, regardless of Toughness?

 airmang wrote:
Does that mean they auto -wound, regardless of Toughness?

That is the rumor.