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chaos0xomega wrote:I think it would be. Its one of the elements that makes the army unique. The only other army with a non-upgradeable basic troop choice is the Necrons.

From the fluff perspective, Firewarriors are supposed to be elite riflemen, comparable to grenadiers, and the pulse-rifle is supposed to be the ultimate infantry weapon putting out firepower capable of felling the toughest opponent and even light vehicles. The heavy support/special weapons are supposed to be provided by drones/suits and other elements of the army.

Tyranids and daemons as well, though it's unit dependant. I like the fluff of the purpose driven firewarrior squads. Their mixed arms come in the form of supplementary units, and I like that. It gives them a unique profile and set of tactics. Once they get mixed heavy weapons they come that much closer to guard with hovertanks. Which is lame.

ShumaGorath wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:I think it would be. Its one of the elements that makes the army unique. The only other army with a non-upgradeable basic troop choice is the Necrons.

From the fluff perspective, Firewarriors are supposed to be elite riflemen, comparable to grenadiers, and the pulse-rifle is supposed to be the ultimate infantry weapon putting out firepower capable of felling the toughest opponent and even light vehicles. The heavy support/special weapons are supposed to be provided by drones/suits and other elements of the army.

Tyranids and daemons as well, though it's unit dependant. I like the fluff of the purpose driven firewarrior squads. Their mixed arms come in the form of supplementary units, and I like that. It gives them a unique profile and set of tactics. Once they get mixed heavy weapons they come that much closer to guard with hovertanks. Which is lame.

I as well have a deep love for useless wastes of points that I'm forced to take to please the 40k rulebook. The fluff also says they adapt and change for the situation, not just sit on the same load out all the time. It's even written in the Tau Codex that Firewarriors adapted to certain situations by using Kroot Rifles over their pulse Rifles.

I'm sorry it's really hard to argue having a non-changing, non-adaptable troop choice when the race as a whole is written as the leading race of technological change and evolution makes any sense. I would say it's more against the fluff to not have Firewarriors fielding different weaponry to adapt to the situation at hand. Even if it has to come with drones, it needs to be done or at least remove the unit as a required for the FoC.

But the Firewarriors are changign and adapting. The same guys who form line infantry can be expected to crew vehicles and work as Pathfinders. After their first Trial by Fire they can be a squad leader or battlesuit pilot as the system requires.

The game just doesn't show that really well.

To be honest, i think the Tau would really benefit from a codex that looks a lot like the current Space Wolves codex. Make the Shas'la the equivalent of the Blood Claw (though obviously shooty as opposed to assaulty), available in large numbers and less disciplined and well trained than their betters.

Make the Shas'ui like the Grey Hunters, Scouts and Long Fangs. Better trained, better equipped than the Shas'la, depending on the slot you purchase them in they will either be line infantry, pathfinders, crisis suit teams, stealth suit teams or broadside suit teams.

Make the Shas'vre like the Wolf Guard, a specialist Elite unit that can either function as a unified group of battle suits or split off some of it's number to lead other formations. Give them access to the better gear and the flexibility to put on any of the battlesuits necessary to join the lesser units. Also they would have access to exclusive suits like the Hazard suit.

The Shas'el then becomes the equivalent of a Wolf Guard Battle Leader, a sort of super Shas'vre able to take special items and able to be equipped to fit in with any of the lesser units.

The Shas'o then becomes the Wolf Lord and is to the Shas'el what the Shas'el is to the Shas'ui.

Heck, i could even see a Lone Wolf equivalent, the last remaining survivors of bonded units who now seek solace in the arms of death, but wish to serve the greater good one final time before they die.

Ethereals can become the rough equivalent to a Wolf Priest - a CC and Ld buffing unit. Perhaps Air Caste forward observers to act as a Rune Priest equivalent, calling in air strikes and orbital bombardments of various types. Earth Caste as an Iron Priest equivalent, maintaining the vehicles in the field and leading a unit of drones . . .


Yes they wouldn't do it int he same way, but the basic structure is there and fits very well i think.

Can we please start dating all these rumor threads so peoplec an tell when they are actually updated?

chaos0xomega wrote:
Psh pound sterling? Please, I'm an American, I use a real currency ;P

so your not a fan of stable currency then troll mode off...

Still if the new TAU EMPIRE codex can not out shoot a space marine codex I might have to sell my TAU EMPIRE army.

thevirus wrote:Still if the new TAU EMPIRE codex can not out shoot a space marine codex I might have to sell my TAU EMPIRE army.

they can allready, if the terrain is rignt. but on a plain field your screwed

tarnish wrote:

thevirus wrote:Still if the new TAU EMPIRE codex can not out shoot a space marine codex I might have to sell my TAU EMPIRE army.

they can allready, if the terrain is rignt. but on a plain field your screwed

"They can now under very strict and limited situations including the Space Marine player having huffed paint while writing up his army list."

I fixed it for you.

But in all seriousness the Tau as they stand now have the second worst average ballistic score (at least this is what I have read on multiple occasions on Tau Tactica and the like), only being better than the Orks. Now for a "shooty" army this is just stupid. Cool we have some hard hitting stuff and other fancies, but the reduced chance to hit on average kinda kills it. On top of GW handing out FNP like candy for all current codices, reducing the chance to wound by another 50%, only makes the problem worse. I want an overall ballistic score increase, and I don't mind if that comes at the cost of equipment to do so. Like FW or other infantry taking a drone with a Targeting Array to increase the squads BS by 1. Then again if the Ethereal granting Honor Guards and Preferred enemy for all FW rings true then this would not be needed as much, but could still good idea (imo) for players who don't wish to bring a Ethereal.

In fact the idea of putting crisis suit hard point upgrades into infantry units as drones is not a bad idea once I think about it more. Maybe something like Shield generator drones: Grants 6+ invuln save for entire squad, can purchase a second Shield Gen. Drone for maximum of a 5+ invuln save. This idea coming mainly from DoW game were FW squads could actually do this and provided a shielding field for each FW.


*Edit 1&2: Fix spelling and add more bad ideas to post.

Dantalian wrote:

tarnish wrote:

thevirus wrote:Still if the new TAU EMPIRE codex can not out shoot a space marine codex I might have to sell my TAU EMPIRE army.

they can allready, if the terrain is rignt. but on a plain field your screwed

"They can now under very strict and limited situations including the Space Marine player having huffed paint while writing up his army list."

I fixed it for you.

But in all seriousness the Tau as they stand now have the second worst average ballistic score (at least this is what I have read on multiple occasions on Tau Tactica and the like), only being better than the Orks. Now for a "shooty" army this is just stupid. Cool we have some hard hitting stuff and other fancies, but the reduced chance to hit on average kinda kills it. On top of GW handing out FNP like candy for all current codices, reducing the chance to wound by another 50%, only makes the problem worse. I want an overall ballistic score increase, and I don't mind if that comes at the cost of equipment to do so. Like FW or other infantry taking a drone with a Targeting Array to increase the squads BS by 1. Then again if the Ethereal granting Honor Guards and Preferred enemy for all FW rings true then this would not be needed as much, but could still good idea (imo) for players who don't wish to bring a Ethereal.

In fact the idea of putting crisis suit hard point upgrades into infantry units as drones is not a bad idea once I think about it more. Maybe something like Shield generator drones: Grants 6+ invuln save for entire squad, can purchase a second Shield Gen. Drone for maximum of a 5+ invuln save. This idea coming mainly from DoW game were FW squads could actually do this and provided a shielding field for each FW.


*Edit 1&2: Fix spelling and add more bad ideas to post.

I see what you did there.

I played DoW recently, and i have made up my mind with the though that GW will most probably take a lot of ideas from the game, and most probably include Barracudes in the next Codex, since it already appeared on Soulstorm (i would bought like 3 of them if it was real). But being more serious about it, when i saw the Tau Commander on DoW2 Last Stand, and realized that they got more armour the legs, and different bodys and heads than the ones that comes on the plastic kit, and ALSO the Shas`O`Rmyr shield, i would love that they keep up this idea, and make it real for the plastic or resin kits for the next codex, a newly designed Shield generators for the Crisis suits, and a real awesome Shield Generator for Tau Commander on Crisis.

The idea with Drones that can equip some wargear is awesome, it really make some sense there.

Also, if they really come up with the idea of Etherals granting Honour Guard for FW, i hope that they also make a new Ethereal model, with some light armor on top of their Ethreal classic clothes, to be less Priest, and more Monk (the D&D Monk) like, wich is the stile i really thing will fit for them, since i saw the Aun`Shi model and Background.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/TAU-BARRACUDA.html

Still wanna buy 3 of them? lol

Want =/= capable of

Sidstyler wrote:http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/TAU-BARRACUDA.html

Still wanna buy 3 of them? lol

I know its expensive, but that doesnt changes my mind hahaha same goes for the Manta, i want one but... Money is Relentless

Just for completeness, BOLS posted this today (Bigred's comments in Italics):

40K RUMORS: Tau Upgrades
Posted by Bigred at Thursday, December 29, 2011

So, here's the latest word on the rumored upcoming Codex: Tau Empire

They say the Tau are ever expanding their empire with not only new member races, but steadily updating and improving their equipment. Lets get to it:

-Demiurg Units ~plural
-New Vespid unit and a new weapon for the wasp-men.
-New FireWarrior heavy weapons - expect new anti-tank / anti- infantry heavy weapon choices on a 1 special per X ratio (probably 1 per 5 or 10 fire Warriors)
-Plastic Barricuda (or other renamed fighter)
-Possible Human allies (Rogue IG militia that joined the Tau Empire) ~said to be the iffy-est of these rumors.
-New Kroot HQ choice (with the ability to "unlock a Kroot themed army) ~sounds like an homage to the old Kroot Mercs list.
-Kroot Carnivores upgraded to either a 5+ or a 6+ save by default.

i like these new rumours, but im still hoping for an open topped/multi fire point vehicle that is fast. allowing you to lay down some fire and run away before you get wiped in an assault. the low leadership/inititive/weapon skill combo mean your losing 99% or close combats and then getting overrun and wiped out. or taking 25% casualties and running off the board. hopefully the demiurg have some descent close combat/survivability allowing you to not get overrun in the first 2 turns, so you can shoot the hell outta the other guy for a while. plus i would love to see a drop in the cost and a move from heavy to assault for the marker lights.

There have beenn some rumours posted on the german gw-fanworld forum. Since they have been utter rubbish and the person claiming to be an insider "came under NDA" when forced to spill his guts rendered them unprintable.

What I have heard so far, also comparing similar threads over the forums is this:

-Release begin or end of 2012.

-New Kroot HQ

-Barracuda plastic kit

-Changes to Markerlights and Railgun (HH only)

-new Super Heavy tank

-FW HH turrets normal issue

-Firewarriors and Pathfinders same kit (upgrade sprue)

-changes to Pulse rifle (?)

-new race Demiurg with several Units

-changes to Vespid Neutron Blaster (18' ?)

-XV8 resculpt and streamlined (2 weapons, 1 system) and come in 3 a pack

-XV88 upgrade sprue for XV8 kit

-XV9 kit (??) or upgrade for Commander

-new Chars Ra'lai, Rym and Aun' Shi

-Ethereals caan take Envoys (think Master of Fleet etc)



Imho the new dex could be quite easily done. The envoy option could be good depending on how it deals with MEQ and DS units. Those are the Taus' problemes. Not enough DS2/DS1 firepower, not enough templates.

Remedied with a good version of Pulse Submunition rifle (S6 DS3) and BS4+ for all units.

I said it, barracuda for plastic kit it may be some other kind of fighter, but i hope its similar on his weaponry.

The FW getting heavy weapons is something i already expected, and something really natural that should have happened already with some WD update and new plastic kits or upgrades.

Vespid getting better are good news, i like the model and abilitys, but they are not viable since Crisis suits are way better, less expensive and more durable. If they upgrade their stats, and introduce the new Vespid Heavy unit they will be a new real choice to get and have fun playing with.

¿Gue`Vessa becoming part of the codex? Ppl normally use them as just normal FW with different models... IDK what to say about it : /

Kroot HQ? dont care, i like kroots, but i dont want to pick a Kroot HQ to get some unit that i need, or just want for my army, sounds stupid to me, when no other army has it, it will make of Tau an unique army yes, but, in the bad way.

The improvement of the armour save will be nice, since they are an assault force, and something to hold up enemys, the less thing you can expect from them, is to be able to hold back on CC with some armour, even if its light, its better than nothing, for some more time, and having real choices to win against their enemys ¿Maybe they get more upgrades as psychics? I read that on some old post around here, it will be fun, and will get us to see some new Kroot with a different model being more mysticand so.

Damn it!!! I am going to have to get a second job with both of my armies getting a codex this year.


DAMN YOU GW!!!!

So the overall corroborated rumors are:

New HQs:
Demiurg
Kroot
Forge world characters
Demiurg Special Character

New Units:
Some kind of fighter
XV-9s moving over
New kroot unit
New Demiurg unit
New Vespid unit

Kit News:
Plastic fighter kit
Completely re-done XV-8s
Pathfinders and Firewarriors becoming one kit.

Rules:
XV-8s becoming troops
Some kind of change to the Hammerhead rules
Etherals getting changed to suck less

That's what I'm seeing that's being corroborated across multiple sources.

Really hoping for that Kroot HQ so I can legally field a small, all Kroot "fun" army (yes, I know they'll die horribly every time)!

TheSovereign wrote:
Really hoping for that Kroot HQ so I can legally field a small, all Kroot "fun" army (yes, I know they'll die horribly every time)!

Unless the rumor of them getting 5+ as a standard is true, then they may stand a little better of a chance. THough I would never field an all kroot army myself, I do enjoy using them in my army as a meatshield/dedicated assault depending on the situation.

I like that the barracuda is coming over to the army, and I assume the second "fighter" may be the remora. Though I don't have similar love for the remora since its point cost to uts usefullness seems out of proportion of proportion to me.

I'm intrested to see how they change markerlights (if at all), hopefully making ALL markerlights networked so FW Squads can basically get a 50% chance to increase their own BS by 1 at the shooting phase. But this rumor that XV8's becoming troops is a little weird to me. And added the claim crisis suits will now come in packs of three (though I wouldn't mind this). But I would be more easily convinced that the broadside kit will be mixed into the crisis suit sprues since it really is just a 3 piece difference. But if this turns out to be true, I wonder how much a box of 3 suits would cost D:

I remember early there was mention of a new "heavy xeno." Some people mentioned that this was going to be a "queen" type Vespid. Could it instead be the greater knarloc coming over to plastic? It's an existing unit, will fill the role of a tau mc, and is owned by 40k(apocalypse).

I'm also wondering about the Great Knarloc, especially given it's appearances in DoW.

Harry is in debunking mood, given all the vague and inaccurate rumours floating around.
Please keep the discussion on non-Tau to the following thread. where I will copy this as well:

Harry wrote:Fellas ... needless to say, given the amount of contradiction ... much of the first post is inaccurate. Some of that stuff was written before they started writing the book.
No one has got all the kits right yet.
I don't think they will be as soon as most folks seem to think given the amount of stuff that seems to be before them.
(...)
I have heard about more stuff for IG, Necrons, Tyranids .....

I think (for what its worth) that there is stuff coming for at least 5 other armies before we see the Tau stuff. (unless they release something in advance of the main release?)

But as you know I don't follow 40K that closely so I could be completely wrong.

I trust that means a wave, with units not available yet? Otherwise, I predict much nerdRAGE - the Imperial Guard already got an update.

Yes, waves for a number of armies coming.

When you say 5 other armies do you mean 5 other gw armies or 5 other 40k armies? Because the latter surely puts tau into, as a minimum, 2013, and makes me a very sad panda

I mean 5 other 40K armies but I am not talking about full army releases just more stuff.
I heard Tau were good to go 2012 but I don't know exactly where they fit in the schedule.

And since 40K has gotten Harry's attention (a rare event!) I might as well ask: any love coming soonish for the pointy-ears? Pretty please?

Yes. I have heard about some stuff coming for Eldar.

ghost21 wrote:Remember Harry gets info of stuff much later in the process than I do. He could be right (I'm still annoyed about sisters of battle who will now sit done for at least 18 months if not longer)

There's BT, IG, and I think tyranid stuff done, and SW, if they plan on releasing no armies for 40k until 6th ed i can see it unfortunately
(...)
Oh, I forgot SOB but honestly 2013/14 now

Kroothawk wrote:Harry is in debunking mood, given all the vague and inaccurate rumours floating around.
Please keep the discussion on non-Tau to the following thread. where I will copy this as well:

Harry wrote:Fellas ... needless to say, given the amount of contradiction ... much of the first post is inaccurate. Some of that stuff was written before they started writing the book.
No one has got all the kits right yet.
I don't think they will be as soon as most folks seem to think given the amount of stuff that seems to be before them.
(...)
I have heard about more stuff for IG, Necrons, Tyranids .....

I think (for what its worth) that there is stuff coming for at least 5 other armies before we see the Tau stuff. (unless they release something in advance of the main release?)

But as you know I don't follow 40K that closely so I could be completely wrong.

I trust that means a wave, with units not available yet? Otherwise, I predict much nerdRAGE - the Imperial Guard already got an update.

Yes, waves for a number of armies coming.

When you say 5 other armies do you mean 5 other gw armies or 5 other 40k armies? Because the latter surely puts tau into, as a minimum, 2013, and makes me a very sad panda

I mean 5 other 40K armies but I am not talking about full army releases just more stuff.
I heard Tau were good to go 2012 but I don't know exactly where they fit in the schedule.

And since 40K has gotten Harry's attention (a rare event!) I might as well ask: any love coming soonish for the pointy-ears? Pretty please?

Yes. I have heard about some stuff coming for Eldar.

ghost21 wrote:Remember Harry gets info of stuff much later in the process than I do. He could be right (I'm still annoyed about sisters of battle who will now sit done for at least 18 months if not longer)

There's BT, IG, and I think tyranid stuff done, and SW, if they plan on releasing no armies for 40k until 6th ed i can see it unfortunately
(...)
Oh, I forgot SOB but honestly 2013/14 now

Why does it seem like with every rumor that comes out or gets clarified that the Tau release date seems to get pushed further and further back? Like I stopped playing about two years ago now until they released a new codex, and I am growing tired of waiting as Tau seem to keep being placed on the backburner. And just to get clarification, "Oh, I forgot SOB but honestly 2013/14 now," is he saying that the Tau codex will most likely be 2013/2014 or sisters of battle?
Also when he reffers to the "first post", is he referring to the first post of this thread? If that's true then what do we really know besides there will be Demiurg and another race?

1.) Most rumours are by ghost2. He claims to get info from early production stages that can change. With SOB, he was obviously wrong by 2 or so years.
2.) Harry always claimed that Tau are not that close as most think, but he cautiously estimates their release in 2012 anyway.
3.) The "first post" is obviously the first post of the Warseer thread, but this thread includes the info of it.
4.) Yes, we have almost no reliable information at the moment, that's why I was reluctant to start a thread on that topic.

Anyway, some more tidbits by Harry (full quotes in release schedule thread):

I can confirm there is stuff done for BT, IG, Nids and SW and have also heard about stuff for Sisters of Battle, DA, Chaos, Eldar, Dark Eldar and Tau. (so that is just about all of them isn't it?) What is less clear is when they plan to release it all.
(...)
Originally I did have Tau down for the first half of the year based one when I first heard about them (Well over a year ago now) but it always had a ? against it as I had not heard anything concrete since and then I got the impression at GD there was still some work to do on the models .... so given lead times March/April was doable but the earliest possible date and never seemed very likely.

All I have to go on is the order I hear about things ... I never get a schedule or hear release dates.

So going back quite a way the order I heard about things was:
Tyranids, Blood Angels, Grey Knights, Sisters of Battle, Necrons, More Nids, Black Templar, Tau, Chaos, More Eldar, More Space Wolves, More Dark Angels.
(...)
So whilst it is unlikely the order will be exactly the same and it is unclear which will be full army releases and which just more models .... (although you can take a pretty good guess) This is kind of the order I expect to see some stuff for these armies.

I had Tau and BT down before Chaos because I heard about models for them before I heard about anything for Chaos BUT just because a project starts before does not mean it will automatically finish before.

I just talked to our local, independent games store owner. He *claimed* that his GW contact *claimed* that Tau was being discontinued.

This is obviously not correct as the the studio has been working on Tau for over 18 months.

I am sure Tau are coming in next year ... just think they are a good bit later than Q1/2 as seems to be widely thought.

Again ... I could be completely wrong about this.

from what i heard for tau they were meant to come out in march 2012 has that changed ?

I almost kinda hope they're not...that means they're going to come in right before a new edition, so the codex will be outdated almost immediately, and Tau will have to suffer through another whole edition being bottom-tier.

And I don't really buy that stuff about GW designing armies that come out before the edition, for that new edition, since they said the same thing about Daemons and they're probably the worst army in the game.

but arent all new codex that are coming out now based upon 6th ed rules

such as why do necron destroyers have preferred enemy

I'm just glad that the Dark Eldar will be getting some new volunteers as part of the cultural exchange. Urien Rakarth will be very pleased.

What in the deuce do GK even have to get released yet? Isn't everything in the codex out? Maybe a SC or two? It seems silly to release new stuff for new armies before updating armies in desperate need. Or, yknow, Tyranid 2nd wave.

Looking forward to Tau, not looking forward to Tau being FotM. With luck they will continue to be balanced around higher skill level (without needing perfection and lucky dice to succeed).