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As choppas?

Da yella 'eads wrote:For all you Tankbustas out there here's some Rokkit Launcha maths hammer. All numbers are for a single rokkit launcha shot....

Versus --- Average Hull Pts ---- Chance to wreck
AV14 ................. 0.06............................... 0.00
AV13 ................. 0.11 .............................. 0.02
AV12 ................. 0.17 .............................. 0.03
AV11 ................. 0.22 .............................. 0.05
AV10 ................. 0.27 .............................. 0.06

So, to remove all 3 hull points from an AV11 rhino in one turn you need, on average, 14 Tankbustas (14 * 0.22 = 3.08). Of course you may destroy it earlier if a shot gets a lucky explode roll. On the other hand, 15 Tankbustas firing at a land raider will (on average) only take 0.9 hull points off it.

Happy shooting...

This is great.


I'd love to see this for lootas since my debate is Tankbustaz vs Lootas.

2.) KFF is now 5+

kff has always been 5+, it says it in the codex

stompygitz wrote:For purposes of assault, what does the choppa count as? Just curious if there is any change with it.

It's just a normal CCW.

dakkadakka brad wrote:2.) KFF is now 5+

kff has always been 5+, it says it in the codex

No it wasn't. In 5th, vehicles being obscured was a 4+ cover save as it was actually written in the rulebook.

dakkadakka brad wrote:2.) KFF is now 5+

kff has always been 5+, it says it in the codex

5+ for infantry. Vehicles within 6" counted as obscured, therefore 4+. Ork FAQ (prior to 6th ed FAQ rewrite) clarified the matter further - vehicles within 6" got a 4+ save.

It is now 5+ for everything, including vehicles. As such, it lost a third of its effectiveness - thus the less than eager response to the news.

For all you Tankbustas out there here's some Rokkit Launcha maths hammer. All numbers are for a single rokkit launcha shot....

Versus --- Average Hull Pts ---- Chance to wreck
AV14 ................. 0.06............................... 0.00
AV13 ................. 0.11 .............................. 0.02
AV12 ................. 0.17 .............................. 0.03
AV11 ................. 0.22 .............................. 0.05
AV10 ................. 0.27 .............................. 0.06

So, to remove all 3 hull points from an AV11 rhino in one turn you need, on average, 14 Tankbustas (14 * 0.22 = 3.08). Of course you may destroy it earlier if a shot gets a lucky explode roll. On the other hand, 15 Tankbustas firing at a land raider will (on average) only take 0.9 hull points off it.

Happy shooting...


This is great.


I'd love to see this for lootas since my debate is Tankbustaz vs Lootas.

OK, here are the stats for Lootas. These numbers assume the deffguns have an average of 2 shots per round...

Versus --- Average Hull Pts ---- Chance to wreck
AV14 ................. 0.00............................... 0.00
AV13 ................. 0.11 .............................. 0.00
AV12 ................. 0.22 .............................. 0.02
AV11 ................. 0.33 .............................. 0.04
AV10 ................. 0.44 .............................. 0.06

So lootas are better than tankbustas at range versus AV10-12, almost as good vs. AV13 and worse vs. AV14. If you are moving tankbustas will be better because they won't have to use snap shot (halve all the probabilities for the lootas if they are using snap shot). Tankbustas will also be better close up to the tank because they can now chuck a single tankbusta bomb 8" and of course they may have some tankhammers...

IMHO lootas are usually the better choice because AV13/14 is really biker boss fodder anyway, what with CC now hitting moving vehicles on a 3+ and the land raider having 4 hull points to glance away.

Da yella 'eads wrote:

For all you Tankbustas out there here's some Rokkit Launcha maths hammer. All numbers are for a single rokkit launcha shot....

Versus --- Average Hull Pts ---- Chance to wreck
AV14 ................. 0.06............................... 0.00
AV13 ................. 0.11 .............................. 0.02
AV12 ................. 0.17 .............................. 0.03
AV11 ................. 0.22 .............................. 0.05
AV10 ................. 0.27 .............................. 0.06

So, to remove all 3 hull points from an AV11 rhino in one turn you need, on average, 14 Tankbustas (14 * 0.22 = 3.08). Of course you may destroy it earlier if a shot gets a lucky explode roll. On the other hand, 15 Tankbustas firing at a land raider will (on average) only take 0.9 hull points off it.

Happy shooting...

You forgot about Bomb Squigs. They're a huge reason that I bring Tankbustas. They also make me feel better about spending 15 points per tankbusta. Although it is 18" range, they hit on a 2+ and are Str 8. That's pretty awesome in my book.

You forgot about Bomb Squigs. They're a huge reason that I bring Tankbustas. They also make me feel better about spending 15 points per tankbusta. Although it is 18" range, they hit on a 2+ and are Str 8. That's pretty awesome in my book.

Good point. Squigs are also great fun if you roll a 1

Here are the stats for releasing a squig of doom:

Versus --- Average Hull Pts ---- Chance to wreck
AV14 ................. 0.14............................... 0.00
AV13 ................. 0.28 .............................. 0.02
AV12 ................. 0.42 .............................. 0.05
AV11 ................. 0.56 .............................. 0.07
AV10 ................. 0.69 .............................. 0.09

Bomb Squig wrote:

Da yella 'eads wrote:For all you Tankbustas out there here's some Rokkit Launcha maths hammer. All numbers are for a single rokkit launcha shot....

Versus --- Average Hull Pts ---- Chance to wreck
AV14 ................. 0.06............................... 0.00
AV13 ................. 0.11 .............................. 0.02
AV12 ................. 0.17 .............................. 0.03
AV11 ................. 0.22 .............................. 0.05
AV10 ................. 0.27 .............................. 0.06

So, to remove all 3 hull points from an AV11 rhino in one turn you need, on average, 14 Tankbustas (14 * 0.22 = 3.08). Of course you may destroy it earlier if a shot gets a lucky explode roll. On the other hand, 15 Tankbustas firing at a land raider will (on average) only take 0.9 hull points off it.

Happy shooting...

You forgot about Bomb Squigs. They're a huge reason that I bring Tankbustas. They also make me feel better about spending 15 points per tankbusta. Although it is 18" range, they hit on a 2+ and are Str 8. That's pretty awesome in my book.

Bomb squigs actually hit 100% of the time. Its just that on a roll of 1 they attack the nearest ork vehicle. So unless you didn't bring a single vehicle they will usually hit something.

Also, I'm really wondering how bomb squigs work against fliers. They are technically a shooting attack that doesn't have to roll to hit, so if they can be used, then by all rights they should strike a flier on a 2+ as you don't have to roll to hit with them.

Which is just silly from a fluff viewpoint, but I don't know about RAW.

Jayden63 wrote:

Bomb Squig wrote:

Da yella 'eads wrote:For all you Tankbustas out there here's some Rokkit Launcha maths hammer. All numbers are for a single rokkit launcha shot....

Versus --- Average Hull Pts ---- Chance to wreck
AV14 ................. 0.06............................... 0.00
AV13 ................. 0.11 .............................. 0.02
AV12 ................. 0.17 .............................. 0.03
AV11 ................. 0.22 .............................. 0.05
AV10 ................. 0.27 .............................. 0.06

So, to remove all 3 hull points from an AV11 rhino in one turn you need, on average, 14 Tankbustas (14 * 0.22 = 3.08). Of course you may destroy it earlier if a shot gets a lucky explode roll. On the other hand, 15 Tankbustas firing at a land raider will (on average) only take 0.9 hull points off it.

Happy shooting...

You forgot about Bomb Squigs. They're a huge reason that I bring Tankbustas. They also make me feel better about spending 15 points per tankbusta. Although it is 18" range, they hit on a 2+ and are Str 8. That's pretty awesome in my book.

Bomb squigs actually hit 100% of the time. Its just that on a roll of 1 they attack the nearest ork vehicle. So unless you didn't bring a single vehicle they will usually hit something.

Also, I'm really wondering how bomb squigs work against fliers. They are technically a shooting attack that doesn't have to roll to hit, so if they can be used, then by all rights they should strike a flier on a 2+ as you don't have to roll to hit with them.

Which is just silly from a fluff viewpoint, but I don't know about RAW.

Step 1. Grab bomb squig
Step 2. Attach bomb squig to rokkit
Step 3. ???????
Step 4. Profit

And that is why orks have one of the best anti air solutions in the game

Haha, well yeah of course they hit on any roll, I just mean that you're just looking for a 2+ with a bomb squig. Just the other day I had a trukk full of tankbustas and the bomb squig decided to blow up the trukk and send tankbustas flying . But I have still found them to be very useful. Especially giving the Tankhammer guy a way to shoot.

Also, can you really hit a flyer with a bomb squig??

Undecided.

You can't shoot at flyers except with snap fire, which requires a BS.

Some folk say autohit dodges this, others don't.

Personally i think it would be awesome to use ground to air squig missiles

Just to jump back and reference something two pages back: Forgeworld released a PDF for their vehicles to bring them in line for 6th editon.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/v/vehicle6thupdates.pdf
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/a/apoc6thupdate.pdf

For those interested but lazy:

Grot Bomb Launcha, Attak Fighta, Warkopta, Grot Tanks are all 2 hull points each.

Everything else is 3 hull points.

Apocapylse untis are now 3-hull points per structure point, for those looking to field Stompas and the other bigger variety of ork vehicles.

Squigs can hit flyiers unless you are inside a vehicle.

Because the FAQ explicitly tells us to follow weapon shooting rules for squigs while embarked - as such, they can not be resolved against fliers, as you can not snap-fire them (they do not use your BS).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kharrak wrote:Just to jump back and reference something two pages back: Forgeworld released a PDF for their vehicles to bring them in line for 6th editon.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/v/vehicle6thupdates.pdf
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/a/apoc6thupdate.pdf

For those interested but lazy:

Grot Bomb Launcha, Attak Fighta, Warkopta, Grot Tanks are all 2 hull points each.

Everything else is 3 hull points.

Apocapylse untis are now 3-hull points per structure point, for those looking to field Stompas and the other bigger variety of ork vehicles.

Squiggoths also got smash, hammer of wrath and AP1

Forge faqs don't say anything about junkas.

illuknisaa wrote:Forge faqs don't say anything about junkas.

This is just the first wave, I'm sure more is on its way

Bacms wrote:Which list do you use? It will take a while for people to get used to the new rules and get some lists that do farewell. CC is nerfed in my opinion which hurts quite a lot but orks can play alternatives. Shooty orks with loads of long distance shooting will make a difference. Vehicles are still worth taking but you will probably have to play differently. It is no longer point and click because we need time to know what to do.

Haha, I'm sorry i couldn't help but bust out laughing at this comment. Why would you start to make a full or almost full shooty ork army when you can make a thousand times better shooty army with pretty much any other 40k army.

This is what rots me with the new codex. Orks, IMHO, were built around chopping and assaulting things to death and I believe GW nerfed the male reproductive organs off the Ork army. The 6th Ed is supposed to be a "grim time for Space Marine existence" however, GW has done a wonderful job buffing their poster baby to the point that Xeno armies now struggle more then ever to play competitively.

Edit: I'm aware of how Orks reproduce and whatnot

See, that's the thing. Orks are equal parts Choppy, Zappy, Blasty, Zoomy and Shooty.

Also known as Krump, Fasta, and Dakka.

Sorry to detract the topic but i found something that can pertain to the orks tho not directly part of the FAQ. Since we have alot of posters here maybe someone could just answer this really fast?

Just caught a strange notation here about bikes in assault. It mentions during movement phase that a bike isn't slowed by difficult terrain but it treats it as dangerous during that phase. However, it doesn't say this during assualt phase but it goes out of it's way to mention it isn't slowed again and only states a ageis defense line would be treated as dangerous terrain....

So does this mean if my biker boyz were riding toward some forest to kill some eldar rangers, moved up to BUT NOT INTO the forest, shot and then assaulted no dangerous terrain tests are required for the action? But obviously leaving .. unless very lucky would be considered dangerous after.

Got in quite a few games today, and overall I would say that Orks are a bit weaker.

Notable things today.

Ork flyers are so easy to shoot down now that rapid fire is 24 on the move that they are not worth the points, I had only one flyer of 2 survive more than a single turn is 3 games, and never once did my opponent even need skyfire.

Stormboyz are actually worse, you would think hammer of wrath would have made them better but casualties off the front pretty much makes their charge a turn later. Even using copious ammount of LOS blocks and cover the combo of 5+ armor and casualties off the front/visible then followed up with overwatch fire makes these already doubious picks worse. That sucks too because I love the models. HoW is really not that great either because it is S3. My marine opponet lost 1 guy in all 3 of our games to it.

Waaagh! doesn't seem to be as good anymore a reroll of a single d6 on charge distance in all 3 games only made the difference on a single charge.

Lootas die quicker (reduced cover) so you very expensive orks now almost require a 50 point fortification to survive more than a single turn.

Shoota boyz are still good, and in combat orks usually seem to have fewer bodies than before because of casualties off the front.

I have 21 unbuilt Ork warbikes. I can pick up another box and run 2x12 regular Warbiker squads or convert the ones I have into Nob Bikers.

Is running 2 units of 9-10 Nob Bikers effective or would smaller units work better? I'm thinking one 7, 2 of 6 (the 6 man squads each go with a warboss) instead.

My magic number in 5th was 7, for Nob bikers.

In 6th, who knows

tgf wrote:
Waaagh! doesn't seem to be as good anymore a reroll of a single d6 on charge distance in all 3 games only made the difference on a single charge.

Fleet allows you to re-roll one or more dice for charging, not just one. Helps a little bit but I agree Waaagh has overall been nerfed a little bit.

Needless to say our gak's changed and tactics will have to adapt, but I too think Orks as a whole are better for it. Here's some important things I've realized:

1) Trukk boyz are a thing of the past. 12 models is simply too flimsy.
2) Large mobs of Slugga Boyz are going to be a nightmare in CC and probably the best tarpit unit in the game thanks to Fearless no longer causing excess wounds to be taken after lost combats. This will in some cases effectively half the number of wounds they're going to take. You'll be able to throw them at almost anything and at the very least tie the enemy unit up the entire game before you have to start worrying about Ld tests. Not to mention the "Get 'Em Boss!" rule that allows a Nob a reroll to Hit, Wound or Save for every 5 Boyz in the mob during a challenge.
3) Meks in units of Burnas and Lootas are going to likewise be awesome thanks to them being characters and rolling a 6 to hit allowing you to allocate their S8 AP2 KMB shot on any model you want. Watch out sniping special weapons and characters in target squads for the insta-gib.
4) Burnas are going to make great anti-CC units. I imagine taking 12 of them (with 3 Meks) in a Battlewagon and rolling them directly at an enemy CC unit; roll or run them right up infront of them and unleash with 12 templates, then sit back and let them charge you and take d3x12 more flame hits. The Meks can not only headshot people but can also repair the Battlewagon (including hull points).
5) Lootas will remain status quo, and that status is still awesome. They'll also serve as fairly effective AA without the need for an actual skyfire unit.
6) Kannons are better now with the enemy having to take out a bunch of T7 grots to silence them.
7) Shokk Attack Guns will now do full damage to vehicles from a partial hit, and with needing to take wounds from models closest to the center of the template, will along with all other blast weapons have potential as snipers.
8) Tankbustas can ignore any vehicle outside of 24 inches and do as they please. They can also chuck Tankbusta bombs 8" and will hit most moving vehicles on a 3+ against rear armour.
9) Bikes permanently increasing Toughness to 5 makes Biker Bosses and Nob bikers brutal, especially with Look Out Sir letting your all-character unit allocate wounds at will half the time. And they get a nifty cover save and can move like a bolt of lightning. This is potentially one of the biggest changes after no Fearless wounds, but I kept it til last because I really just don't like Ork bikes.
10) Double FOC at 2000 points can lead to some hilarity. Someone in another thread came up with an awesome list -- 2 SAGs, 90 Lootas, 18 Kannons and 30 Grots (or whatever) for 2k points.

zverofaust wrote:1) Trukk boyz are a thing of the past. 12 models is simply too flimsy.

I keep hearing that. Has anyone actually tried the good ol' trukk list, or is there a battlereport by someone who did?

3) Meks in units of Burnas and Lootas are going to likewise be awesome thanks to them being characters and rolling a 6 to hit allowing you to allocate their S8 AP2 KMB shot on any model you want. Watch out sniping special weapons and characters in target squads for the insta-gib.

Agree, but I'd still equip meks with big shootas, as more dice and range = more allocatable wounds. The KMB is just a terrible gun since (thanks to Look out sir!) the chances of the mek killing itself is still higher than killing a character without any saves.

7) Shokk Attack Guns will now do full damage to vehicles from a partial hit, and with needing to take wounds from models closest to the center of the template, will along with all other blast weapons have potential as snipers.

2d6 + rerollable 1d6 is still worse than simply S8 at penetrating anything but AV14. The sag is awesome at shooting infantry, it should be use that way.

I agree to all your other points.

zverofaust wrote:
10) Double FOC at 2000 points can lead to some hilarity. Someone in another thread came up with an awesome list -- 2 SAGs, 90 Lootas, 18 Kannons and 30 Grots (or whatever) for 2k points.

Yeah, that was me (15 Kannons and 40 grots though). But I just realized it'd be even funnier to work in four Big Meks in Mega-Armor and deploy them with the Lootas to give those units Slow and Purposeful (move and shoot!) and a 2+ armor save, with 2+ Look Out, Sir! to mitigate AP2 weaponry

As pointed out before, putting big meks in MA is a waste of points. Get a Warboss.

Maybe some of this is 'Duh' but I'm putting it all down.

I tried some trukk boyz and my experience was about the same as 5th against SM. I played 2500 vs Vulkan with a Big Mek KFF/Warboss Biker, 5 trukks and 2 BWs of nobz (it's what I had). The boyz attacked after the I4 marines so losing the +1 I didn't change things. The nob/sarge would trade blows in challenge and it was played that wounds didn't overflow into the boyz/SM so it was a tie for a round or two until the nob could swing round on the marines. What really hurt was assaulting a 5 man combat squad with a flamer and combi flamer: the 'wall of death' is aptly named. Especially on Vulkan's re-roll. On the plus side when the boyz surround and glanced a rhino to wreck and kill the inside it felt very satisfying. Also, the trukk's big shootas can wreck rhinos to add to the hilarity of hull points.

Let's see, deff rolling 2 DP ironclads was hilarious as they can't DoG. But having to move full cruising speed meant one BW blew up to a MB toting sarge; premeasuring and angling will be important to remember. Ah, and later there was an assault squad with plasma pistols that took out the warboss. The warboss biker had joined a kopta and the assault squad landed up behind with the closest being the warboss. He fell to 5 bolt shots and 2 plasma shots. I forgot the Look Out Sir so remember these new rules.

I ended up losing but it was my mistakes in forgetting these new things to avoid/roll for.

I have a friend that is playing Orks right now vs SM. This is my first official game I've observed of 6th.

My friend is playing foot slogging orks and the SM player has a land raider, razorback, and dreadnaught. The new cover save rules are murder to Orks. That fact that you can only count cover if you're in it (area terrain only) or if terrain obscures your model is so bad for Greenskins.

Trukk Boyz sound like a disaster waiting to happen. Overwatch attrition would be enormous and you're not getting to bask in the removal of Fearless wounds.

You can't multi assault any more and they nerfed KFF.

Whyyy. Why would you run Trukk Boyz?

Overwatch is easy to bypass. Charge one squad to soak the overwatch, all other charges at the same unit cant be fire upon. A Warboss in mega armor piling out of a trukk splits from the squad and takes all overwatch, the squad hits. Or simply have the boss take all shots to begin with. Conversely take bikes and have them combo charge to soak overwatches. A suicide squad of bikes charge 2-3 squads at once probably survive the impact while your boys hit the squads single in order to maintain +1 attack bonus