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How does that bypass it? If you're multi assaulting a unit you lose your Furious Charge bonus -and- your assault bonus. You'd be screwing yourself by doing that.

Neither of those things used to happen. So now you're saying the solution is to "soak" an overwatch by sending a suicide unit into it to take the extra casualties and then throw another unit at the same unit, tying two units up in the assault and then losing your assault bonus?

Listen, I'm not saying this strategy is worthless, I'm just saying that none of that used to happen before. If you did a multi assault, the first squad wouldn't have to "soak" anything, because there were no overwatch wounds, and you weren't being robbed of your Furious Charge and assault bonus when you charged with the second squad.

The only real unknown with Trukk Boyz is whether the Hull Points will be to a Trukk player's detriment or to his advantage. Everything else is an obvious nerf, including what you mentioned. There's no reason to investigate this strategy again unless it was working miracles for you before.

TedNugent wrote:How does that bypass it? If you're multi assaulting a unit you lose your Furious Charge bonus -and- your assault bonus. You'd be screwing yourself by doing that.

Neither of those things used to happen. So now you're saying the solution is to "soak" an overwatch by sending a suicide unit into it to take the extra casualties and then throw another unit at the same unit, tying two units up in the assault and then losing your assault bonus?

Listen, I'm not saying this strategy is worthless, I'm just saying that none of that used to happen before. If you did a multi assault, the first squad wouldn't have to "soak" anything, because there were no overwatch wounds, and you weren't being robbed of your Furious Charge and assault bonus when you charged with the second squad.

The only real unknown with Trukk Boyz is whether the Hull Points will be to a Trukk player's detriment or to his advantage. Everything else is an obvious nerf, including what you mentioned. There's no reason to investigate this strategy again unless it was working miracles for you before.

Have one trukk boy squad charge in, it doesnt matter. Look its not a perfect solution, but it is honestly the first solution to pop into my head after just a second of thought. Its not bad, our 6th edition games have seen trukk boys used just fine, its just a bit more rough and tumble. You may have to shift more towards nob troops, or shooting or something. The book is 2 editions behind now you have to meet it half way.

I'm just saying, at least foot hordes didn't get KFF nerfed and they lost Fearless wounds entirely, so it sounds like there are better options in the Codex.

TedNugent wrote:How does that bypass it? If you're multi assaulting a unit you lose your Furious Charge bonus -and- your assault bonus. You'd be screwing yourself by doing that.

Read the rules again, if you multicharge with one unit you take penalties but you can have multiple units charge one unit just fine, so have one unit multicharge and absorb all the overwatch and then charge indivisual squads with you other units

youbedead wrote:

TedNugent wrote:How does that bypass it? If you're multi assaulting a unit you lose your Furious Charge bonus -and- your assault bonus. You'd be screwing yourself by doing that.

Read the rules again, if you multicharge with one unit you take penalties but you can have multiple units charge one unit just fine, so have one unit multicharge and absorb all the overwatch and then charge indivisual squads with you other units

You can charge 2 units at one unit and both units will get Furious Charge and the assault bonus?

Haven't had time to write my recap vs BA yet, bu I can say this much on the results (by turn 4, at wich time I conceided the so called match). I'd killed 2 assault marines, 1 jump pack deathcompany marine and a stormraven. He'd killed two trukks, a bigmekk, the two trukkaboy squads, and my two coptas.

Challenges hurt orks. Alot.

Either your pk nob gets chopped to pieces, or your not allowed his attacks. Ie, I don't think it's worth to bring a PK on nobs anymore, and our 12 boy units will get wiped in CC when they're so few. Either you get charged (jump packs are nasty now), or you get overwatched enugh for the last boys to get clobbered in CC before their initiative round. Well, 3 surviving boys on MY charge managed to strike back, killing one marine, then promptly failing their -9 morale test, and got sweeping advanced.

Bombs on koptas is a no-no, as your obly allowed to drop 'em in the movement phase, and turbo boost is now done in the shooting phase... Good luck being close enugh to a unit, and having move enugh to move over it....

The blitza bomber is MUCH worse against vehicles than I imagined... Yes, penetrating was easy, but since it's ap4, you don't get any bonus on the damage table, which in my game meant I stunned a furioso dread, which ignores stun results... I think rokkit buggies or rokkitkoptas could have achieved more for those 135 pts.... That's 3-4 twinlinked rokkit shots instead of one str7 +2d6 bomb...

I'm kinda pissed off atm.... I've played orks since third ed, bloodaxe style all the way, it got harder in 4th, and again in 5th. Now It's almost impossible. 15 kommandos, won't even survive charging a tactical marine unit if they're sarge got a powersword...

I've considered allying with IG (that's bloodaxey), but I think I'd be better off just running IG...

The only way I see orks workin in CC is in LARGE groups (25-30), with a nob, and a PK warboss/bigmekk. Letting the nob take, and be killed in the challenge, leaving the PK to help killing marines. We're talking throwing 350+ points of boys and HQ against a 160pt tac squad, and MAYBE limping away victorious... And then you won't survive charging anything else...

God I'm pissed right now...
//Calle

TedNugent wrote:

youbedead wrote:

TedNugent wrote:How does that bypass it? If you're multi assaulting a unit you lose your Furious Charge bonus -and- your assault bonus. You'd be screwing yourself by doing that.

Read the rules again, if you multicharge with one unit you take penalties but you can have multiple units charge one unit just fine, so have one unit multicharge and absorb all the overwatch and then charge indivisual squads with you other units

You can charge 2 units at one unit and both units will get Furious Charge and the assault bonus?

Yes, you only lose the bonus, when you charge 1 unit into 2 or more units. How many units you charge into a single unit dose not matter.

Jag_Calle wrote:Haven't had time to write my recap vs BA yet, bu I can say this much on the results (by turn 4, at wich time I conceided the so called match). I'd killed 2 assault marines, 1 jump pack deathcompany marine and a stormraven. He'd killed two trukks, a bigmekk, the two trukkaboy squads, and my two coptas.

Challenges hurt orks. Alot.

Either your pk nob gets chopped to pieces, or your not allowed his attacks. Ie, I don't think it's worth to bring a PK on nobs anymore, and our 12 boy units will get wiped in CC when they're so few. Either you get charged (jump packs are nasty now), or you get overwatched enugh for the last boys to get clobbered in CC before their initiative round. Well, 3 surviving boys on MY charge managed to strike back, killing one marine, then promptly failing their -9 morale test, and got sweeping advanced.

Bombs on koptas is a no-no, as your obly allowed to drop 'em in the movement phase, and turbo boost is now done in the shooting phase... Good luck being close enugh to a unit, and having move enugh to move over it....

The blitza bomber is MUCH worse against vehicles than I imagined... Yes, penetrating was easy, but since it's ap4, you don't get any bonus on the damage table, which in my game meant I stunned a furioso dread, which ignores stun results... I think rokkit buggies or rokkitkoptas could have achieved more for those 135 pts.... That's 3-4 twinlinked rokkit shots instead of one str7 +2d6 bomb...

I'm kinda pissed off atm.... I've played orks since third ed, bloodaxe style all the way, it got harder in 4th, and again in 5th. Now It's almost impossible. 15 kommandos, won't even survive charging a tactical marine unit if they're sarge got a powersword...

I've considered allying with IG (that's bloodaxey), but I think I'd be better off just running IG...

The only way I see orks workin in CC is in LARGE groups (25-30), with a nob, and a PK warboss/bigmekk. Letting the nob take, and be killed in the challenge, leaving the PK to help killing marines. We're talking throwing 350+ points of boys and HQ against a 160pt tac squad, and MAYBE limping away victorious... And then you won't survive charging anything else...

God I'm pissed right now...
//Calle

If you're not playing 25-30 man groups you're not really playing to the orks strengths.....PK orks in those groups should wipe BA off the table in challenges since you're likely to meet PF marines. You'll hit at the same time and get a bunch of rerolls. Prior to that you'lll get a ton of overwatch shots. As a BA player I'm not entirely sure how you lose to a BA footlist?

Noir wrote:

TedNugent wrote:

youbedead wrote:

TedNugent wrote:How does that bypass it? If you're multi assaulting a unit you lose your Furious Charge bonus -and- your assault bonus. You'd be screwing yourself by doing that.

Read the rules again, if you multicharge with one unit you take penalties but you can have multiple units charge one unit just fine, so have one unit multicharge and absorb all the overwatch and then charge indivisual squads with you other units

You can charge 2 units at one unit and both units will get Furious Charge and the assault bonus?

Yes, you only lose the bonus, when you charge 1 unit into 2 or more units. How many units you charge into a single unit dose not matter.

Ah, so it doesn't matter?

So I'm being an idiot, sorry guys, I'm gonna shut up til I get a rulebook in my hands.

after my first game all I can say really is grenades suck. I charged a tac squad with my last kan, which is usually good to start crushing em. But alas 4 grenade hits and it was just ugly.

He only gets to throw one, and he'd be using front armour (11) for the others..

He'd have to at least work at it a little, to glance you down.

It will suck for him too, when you glance down his vehicles/dreads

I played my first game of 6th. It wasn't too great. 1500 pts per player, 2v2. My partner was Eldar and I had my Orks. Played GK and DE (2 new vrs 2 old codices ). My only unit that really excelled was my 5 man squad of Flash Gitz along with Big Mek KFF. They were in a Trukk the entire game and got AP rolls of 1, 1, 2, and 3. They took out 6 guys in cover, and were shooting great, got a few raiders as well. Also, my Tankbustas did really well too. Then again, they always do against my DE opponent (he starts with 8 vehicles on the board). His Drazhar rolled the thing to allow him to get 1 VP per Character he killed. Of course he got ahold of my Nobz squad.... faceroll VP-wise. Grots got all the way to the objective and picked it up... ha.

The match ended of course in a loss for me.

From this post, I realized that I use all of the units that I see dakkadakka posters says not to use... Oh well, they do well for me and I enjoy those units.

Most of those units were proclaimed as lousy in 5th by the competitive players, as they are either too random, or crippled by a lousy rule (Tankbustas) I used 'em anyway

Under 6th Flash Gitz are actually pretty decent (if pricy) and they altered the tankbusta's lousy rule, so they're better too

KFF Mek was great in 5th, and is still ok in 6th, but less mandatory than before with the KFF nerf.

tried something new today... 13 lootas and 2 meks in a battlewagon partially behind cover. 5+ cover save and it just stayed put front armor forward. it would usually get on or 2 glances per turn then repair them in the shooting phase

meks are badass now

It does make those meks they give you in the Loota box a tad more useful

Ascalam wrote:It does make those meks they give you in the Loota box a tad more useful

yea... i'm actually going to have to paint them now. i put them together but they were never worthy of even a base coat let alone a full character level paint job ... now they do

also i realize the mek thing has been said i was more confirming as a not just theory crafting but geez does it work well on the table

Jag_Calle wrote:Haven't had time to write my recap vs BA yet, bu I can say this much on the results (by turn 4, at wich time I conceided the so called match). I'd killed 2 assault marines, 1 jump pack deathcompany marine and a stormraven. He'd killed two trukks, a bigmekk, the two trukkaboy squads, and my two coptas.

Challenges hurt orks. Alot.

Either your pk nob gets chopped to pieces, or your not allowed his attacks. Ie, I don't think it's worth to bring a PK on nobs anymore, and our 12 boy units will get wiped in CC when they're so few. Either you get charged (jump packs are nasty now), or you get overwatched enugh for the last boys to get clobbered in CC before their initiative round. Well, 3 surviving boys on MY charge managed to strike back, killing one marine, then promptly failing their -9 morale test, and got sweeping advanced.

That sounds like the dice didn't like you too much, more than how badly the unit actually is.

11 shoota boys, one with big shoota, one Pk nob. in a trukk.

We will assume orks get the charge because they arn't the guys on foot.

Ork shooting has 22 shoota shots, 3 big shoota shots. 7 shootas, 1 big shoota hit. 4.16 wounds - one dead marine.
marines overwatch. 8 bolt pistols (because they are bp/cc assault marines) and one flamer (assume 2 hits), 3 hits, 1 dead ork.

Marine sarge calls out ork nob for challenge.

marine sarge gets 3 attacks with power weapon. 1.5 hits, .75 wounds. Nob gets 4 attacks, 2 hits, 1 dead sarge. Or if the sarge has a P-fist, 1 hits, .83 wounds. Nob has 1 in 6 chance of living, but lets call it a wash. Both die.

Assault marines - 16 attacks, 8 hits, 4 wounds. 4 dead orks.
Orks attack - 30 attacks, 15 hits, 7.5 wounds, 2.5ish dead marines. (call it two because the dice hate us).

So marines win by 2, if the sarge was toting a P-fist. If not then tie.

This looks to be about how I figure it should have looked. Not having just 3 orks left. The above is also how it should have come out. 10 man assault marines out points 12 orks + nob by quite a bit. Even including weapon upgrades.

I think trukkers have their place, but its big shootas for everyone and you need to run them in pairs if not in 3s. You get more nobs and just as many big shootas. But this is how I have always run them. Also think of them as clean up units. Have them clean up a unit that has already been weakend by flyers or lootas. Stuff that can hit from a distance.

By the way guys, as I understand it - you can only challenge a model that's either in Base-to-base, or within 2". Since your consolidate in at initiative, your nob should be to far back to be challenged at assault start. As such, when his turn comes around, he can happily wade in and make his attacks. In this regard, it would be treated as a normal 5th edition assault.

Assault round 2 and onwords, challenges are a go.

Sorry, but not true. The challenge section tells you what to do if the challenger/gee is not b2b.

"Characters that cannot fight or strike blows (including those that are not engaged with an enemy model) cannot accept challenges."

Engaged means within 2" of a friendly model in base-to-base contact. So it should be possible to position your Nob so he isn't able to accept a challenge, yet make it into the fight upon his pile-in move.

Stoffer wrote:PK orks in those groups should wipe BA off the table in challenges since you're likely to meet PF marines. You'll hit at the same time and get a bunch of rerolls.

You only get re-rolls if the enemy unit consists of a single model. PF sarges will still pose a problem for nobs.

If a unit is pinned can they use overwatch? That would make swooping attacks with dakka jets interesting alternative to dealing with overwatch.

TedNugent wrote:Trukk Boyz sound like a disaster waiting to happen. Overwatch attrition would be enormous and you're not getting to bask in the removal of Fearless wounds.

You can't multi assault any more and they nerfed KFF.

Whyyy. Why would you run Trukk Boyz?

You can't mathhammer army dynamics. Until I have seen actual table-top proof that trukks are dead, I'm not going to buy it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

illuknisaa wrote:If a unit is pinned can they use overwatch? That would make swooping attacks with dakka jets interesting alternative to dealing with overwatch.

Pinned units are explicitly allowed to use overwatch.

Dribble Joy wrote:

Stoffer wrote:PK orks in those groups should wipe BA off the table in challenges since you're likely to meet PF marines. You'll hit at the same time and get a bunch of rerolls.

You only get re-rolls if the enemy unit consists of a single model. PF sarges will still pose a problem for nobs.

Surely you strike at the same initiative with almost the same statline?

Problem in this specific case is that I faced a chaplain, (powermaul) in one challenge, and a libby (force stave) in the other.... But it just highlighted the problem for me.

Powerfists should no longer be the "go to" weapon for sm sergeants. In an all-comer, I foresee powerswords, against TEQ, GEQ I see the powermaul with the ap4 and str bonus to be quite nifty...

It was a 1k game, and I faced: (quoting from memory)
Chaplain and 5 deathcomp marines, with jump packs, in a bloodraven. The flyer also had a furioso dread on it.
10 assault marines, apothecary and librarian.

Ok guys, I'm going to play 2 1000 point lists today to see if Greenskins still have a chance in the edition. I'd like some help in making sure that each list isn't missing anything.


HQ
Mad Dok Grotsnik (160)

Elites
6 Meganobz (380)
cybork bodies.
• Battlewagon: deff rolla.

6 Meganobz (380)
cybork bodies.
• Battlewagon: deff rolla.

Troops
11 Gretchin (40)
Runtherd.

11 Gretchin (40)
Runtherd.

1,000 points
Made with Quartermaster]


Biker Nobz
HQ
Warboss (140)
power klaw; warbike; cybork body; bosspole.

Warboss (140)
power klaw; warbike; cybork body; bosspole.

Troops
5 Nobz (360)
Painboy; 3× big choppa; 2× power klaw; 3× slugga; Waaagh! banner; warbikes; cybork bodies.

5 Nobz (360)
Painboy; 3× big choppa; 2× power klaw; 3× slugga; Waaagh! banner; warbikes; cybork bodies.

1,000 points
Made with Quartermaster

I'll post my results later today. Any advice will be appreciated.

mrfantastical wrote:Ok guys, I'm going to play 2 1000 point lists today to see if Greenskins still have a chance in the edition. I'd like some help in making sure that each list isn't missing anything.


MegaNobz
HQ
Mad Dok Grotsnik (160)

Troops
6 Meganobz (380)
cybork bodies.
• Battlewagon: deff rolla.

6 Meganobz (380)
cybork bodies.
• Battlewagon: deff rolla.

11 Gretchin (40)
Runtherd.

11 Gretchin (40)
Runtherd.

1,000 points
Made with Quartermaster


Biker Nobz
HQ
Warboss (140)
power klaw; warbike; cybork body; bosspole.

Warboss (140)
power klaw; warbike; cybork body; bosspole.

Troops
5 Nobz (360)
Painboy; 3× big choppa; 2× power klaw; 3× slugga; Waaagh! banner; warbikes; cybork bodies.

5 Nobz (360)
Painboy; 3× big choppa; 2× power klaw; 3× slugga; Waaagh! banner; warbikes; cybork bodies.

1,000 points
Made with Quartermaster

I'll post my results later today. Any advice will be appreciated.

in the first list mega nobz are elites not troops no warboss

also mad docs one scalpel short of a medpack still have the old style rage due to specific rule. I'd suggest leaving him at home traded for a megaarmor warboss

2nd list seems dead-ard

Jag_Calle wrote:Problem in this specific case is that I faced a chaplain, (powermaul) in one challenge, and a libby (force stave) in the other.... But it just highlighted the problem for me.

Powerfists should no longer be the "go to" weapon for sm sergeants. In an all-comer, I foresee powerswords, against TEQ, GEQ I see the powermaul with the ap4 and str bonus to be quite nifty...

It was a 1k game, and I faced: (quoting from memory)
Chaplain and 5 deathcomp marines, with jump packs, in a bloodraven. The flyer also had a furioso dread on it.
10 assault marines, apothecary and librarian.

Yeah alright, that will do it. Lot of units there that will give Orks a hard time.

The only problem I see, is your MANz cannot be troops, as you dont have any boss there to open that option up. But that doesnt hinder your list too much (minus not being able to take objectives with them) because you can still take them as elites. Other than that, let us know how they roll ya? Because Im thinking of taking both biker boss and MANz in some of my builds, and obviously Im curious how they function

KingCracker wrote:The only problem I see, is your MANz cannot be troops, as you dont have any boss there to open that option up. But that doesnt hinder your list too much (minus not being able to take objectives with them) because you can still take them as elites. Other than that, let us know how they roll ya? Because Im thinking of taking both biker boss and MANz in some of my builds, and obviously Im curious how they function

Fixed it so they are elites.

I just don't know what to do about Grotsnik ( stick him with the MANz, put him with gretchin, or let him wander by himself).

I could run this

HQ
Warboss (155)
power klaw; mega armour; attack squig; cybork body; bosspole.

Elites
7 Meganobz (400)
• Battlewagon: grot riggers; boarding plank; deff rolla.

Troops
11 Gretchin (40)
Runtherd.

7 Meganobz (405)
• Battlewagon: red paint job; grot riggers; boarding plank; deff rolla.

1,000 points
Made with Quartermaster