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I wonder if GW will retcon Angron bring banished for 1000 years.

 Vash108 wrote:
I wonder if GW will retcon Angron bring banished for 1000 years.

When was he banished? Maybe they will say it was 1000 years in the warp but only a few years (or centuries depending when he was banished) in real time. So for him it was a 1000 years of what ever he was in and he had a 1000 years of planning for vengeance/revenge but for us it was a few years/centuries when he was banished.

Davor wrote:

 Vash108 wrote:
I wonder if GW will retcon Angron bring banished for 1000 years.

When was he banished? Maybe they will say it was 1000 years in the warp but only a few years (or centuries depending when he was banished) in real time. So for him it was a 1000 years of what ever he was in and he had a 1000 years of planning for vengeance/revenge but for us it was a few years/centuries when he was banished.

With a proper montage, 1,000 years can go by as fast as a catchy musical number.

 aka_mythos wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 foostick wrote:
The hypothetical scenario I refer to is a massive retooling of everything that takes us from our current 11:59:00 setting on the clock to the one where some of the overly negative posters on here are conviced is going to leave us at 11:59:59 with the Emperor dead and everyone else dead and buried.

The above is possible, though unlikely in my opinion. To continue the clock analogy I imagine we're about to see the setting jump one or two second forward to 11:59:02. So we're not at one whole minute to midnight, more like 58 seconds.

But I don't want my setting to advance to 11:59:02! That will ruin everything! I like my 40k firmly rooted at 11:58:00, the most metal of all minutes to midnight.

Just putting this out there, but from personal experience: do you know what's scarier than a time bomb that reaches zero and goes off? -The one that doesn't. I think people need to consider the possibility that the proverbial clock reaching zero is a prelude to something else. Just as the fall of Rome saw the rise of a Holy Roman Empire and an Eastern Empire we could see something similar evolve the setting; where it doesn't mean the end of humanity, just the end of the Emperors dream for it.

Pretty sure the Emperor's vision for humanity was lost the minute Horus turned traitor.

All this being said, I know we've debated the whole traitor Primarch turning loyalist in here a bit, I always thought it'd be interesting if it actually was Magnus. He never turned on the Imperium until Russ descended on Prospero and he threw his lot on with the traitors purely for survival.

It'd need some twisted and convoluted plotting to work but that's kind of Tzeentchian anyway.

Or not, but still, I'm liking this model for the visual and for the potential different story threads it's making me consider.

I'd be excited for the first loyalist back to be Lion'el Jonson. He'd make a good foil to Magnus and not be an instant "fix" button for the Imperium as his "Legion" wasn't used to create 90% of all current SM Chapters like Gulliman's was. He's also a supreme strategist but unlikely to bow to the highlords of terra which will create some tension.

Plus I really want him and a daemon Perturabo but Perturabo is forever away more than likely.

Wasn't it already hinted by Sad Panda that the first 2 loyalists are Russ and Guilliman though?

He just said in this very thread that he only knows of one other non FW primarch slated for release. He hasnt mentioned who it is.

Frankly, to the fluff argument, I always found it personally ridiculous that 5 chaos primarchs and 4-5 loyalist primarchs were all just sitting on their duffs for 10k years. Esp the chaos ones, all of whom apparantly more or put a 'do not disturb' sign on their bedroom door and stayed put. If you ask me it's about damn time they made an impact on the story again. Change is scary, I get it, but sometimes it is awesome. I for one would rather roll the dice on something cool than be stuck in the status quo for the rest of time.

The only thing he has said is that he doesn't know specifically who it is and that he only knows it isn't Russ and is a Loyalist for the next model coming out. Jonson makes the most sense from a story perspective with all the DA successors gathering at Fenris.

Is it too much to hope for Corax, having ditched his jump pack for a sweetass cape and wandering the Warp like a Ringwraith with a boltgun?

I mean, Raven Guard don't have any accessory kits or even a transfer sheet from GW proper.
It's a miracle in and of itself that they got a shoulderpad in the Deathwatch box.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MajorTom11 wrote:
Frankly, to the fluff argument, I always found it personally ridiculous that 5 chaos primarchs and 4-5 loyalist primarchs were all just sitting on their duffs for 10k years. Esp the chaos ones, all of whom apparantly more or put a 'do not disturb' sign on their bedroom door and stayed put. If you ask me it's about damn time they made an impact on the story again. Change is scary, I get it, but sometimes it is awesome. I for one would rather roll the dice on something cool than be stuck in the status quo for the rest of time.

The Chaos Primarchs are actually pretty active. Angron has been the most active, but Mortarion and Magnus have made occasional forays into the material realm. I can't think of any for Fulgrim personally(but that's just because I've never found the character interesting and have never followed his stories), nor for Peturabo.

 Hulksmash wrote:
The only thing he has said is that he doesn't know specifically who it is and that he only knows it isn't Russ and is a Loyalist for the next model coming out. Jonson makes the most sense from a story perspective with all the DA successors gathering at Fenris.

Assuming the Loyalist Primarch is showing up at Fenris. Last time Magnus was there, they fought him off (barely) without the help of Russ, so if the Loyalist one is part of a different campaign/narrative, it would make less sense for it to be Russ or Jonson.

 MajorTom11 wrote:
Frankly, to the fluff argument, I always found it personally ridiculous that 5 chaos primarchs and 4-5 loyalist primarchs were all just sitting on their duffs for 10k years. Esp the chaos ones, all of whom apparantly more or put a 'do not disturb' sign on their bedroom door and stayed put. If you ask me it's about damn time they made an impact on the story again. Change is scary, I get it, but sometimes it is awesome. I for one would rather roll the dice on something cool than be stuck in the status quo for the rest of time.

Well said Tom - well said indeed!

I can't wait to see who shows up next.

This, combined with the hope that 40K 8th is less of a...mess...than the current 40K game has me actually excited about...40K again!

 MajorTom11 wrote:
Frankly, to the fluff argument, I always found it personally ridiculous that 5 chaos primarchs and 4-5 loyalist primarchs were all just sitting on their duffs for 10k years. Esp the chaos ones, all of whom apparantly more or put a 'do not disturb' sign on their bedroom door and stayed put. If you ask me it's about damn time they made an impact on the story again. Change is scary, I get it, but sometimes it is awesome. I for one would rather roll the dice on something cool than be stuck in the status quo for the rest of time.

But that's the point. It's only status quo if you choose. Players were always supposed to continue story on their own.

With GW now player stories don't matter because GW is rewriting things faster than that. Just look at the end times. Players didn't even have time to get armies ready when story was changed again. And imagine what it felt to people who had elf civil war resolution going on strong and then GW changed things and their story went down the drain.

GW pushing story themselves makes original idea of 40k(Setting) meaningless as players can't make their own stories as they keep getting them rewritten.

Not to mention takes away mystery of primarchesh. 30k and primarches were on "pull these only on dire situation" on GW's side if they desperately need sales. Guess GW got into desperate enough situation they felt need to activate their last chance card...

tneva82 wrote:

 MajorTom11 wrote:
Frankly, to the fluff argument, I always found it personally ridiculous that 5 chaos primarchs and 4-5 loyalist primarchs were all just sitting on their duffs for 10k years. Esp the chaos ones, all of whom apparantly more or put a 'do not disturb' sign on their bedroom door and stayed put. If you ask me it's about damn time they made an impact on the story again. Change is scary, I get it, but sometimes it is awesome. I for one would rather roll the dice on something cool than be stuck in the status quo for the rest of time.

But that's the point. It's only status quo if you choose. Players were always supposed to continue story on their own.

With GW now player stories don't matter because GW is rewriting things faster than that. Just look at the end times. Players didn't even have time to get armies ready when story was changed again. And imagine what it felt to people who had elf civil war resolution going on strong and then GW changed things and their story went down the drain.

GW pushing story themselves makes original idea of 40k(Setting) meaningless as players can't make their own stories as they keep getting them rewritten.

Not to mention takes away mystery of primarchesh. 30k and primarches were on "pull these only on dire situation" on GW's side if they desperately need sales. Guess GW got into desperate enough situation they felt need to activate their last chance card...

No, no it doesn't. I find this very hard to believe when a lot of players are still playing second edition or 5th edition or what ever they want. It seems people can simply ignore the new stuff and keep doing so. People still play fantasy even though Age of Sigmar is out.

Sorry I don't buy the "people can't make their own stories anymore". After all GW ruined my story in 5th edition when the Golden toilet stopped working. Damn now my plumbers are busy fixing the throne instead of doing battle now. How am I ever going to play with my plastic toy soldiers now that they are fixing the throne instead of doing battle?

tneva82 wrote:

 MajorTom11 wrote:
Frankly, to the fluff argument, I always found it personally ridiculous that 5 chaos primarchs and 4-5 loyalist primarchs were all just sitting on their duffs for 10k years. Esp the chaos ones, all of whom apparantly more or put a 'do not disturb' sign on their bedroom door and stayed put. If you ask me it's about damn time they made an impact on the story again. Change is scary, I get it, but sometimes it is awesome. I for one would rather roll the dice on something cool than be stuck in the status quo for the rest of time.

But that's the point. It's only status quo if you choose. Players were always supposed to continue story on their own.

I don't agree with this sort of sentiment.

Of course players are supposed to create their own stories. But I've never been under the impression that the player's story was supposed to affect or be part of the main one. Like, for instance, you create your personal Space Marine chapter and give them background and have them out there fighting Xenos or whatever, but the intent was never in my eyes that the player was supposed to have a say in what happened to any major characters or organizations. Sure, you could paint your Space Wolves up to be Logan Grimnar's personal guard or Ragnar's strike team, but that doesn't mean you should feel like you have any control over those characters or the main Space Wolves lore (except in the realm of fanfiction/alternate timelines).

My viewpoint has always been: GW has always held control over the main storyline (primarchs, main chapters and organizations, Chaos Gods, etc) and the universe at large, and we are encouraged to take part in it, not influence it.

You can indeed make your own stories, and that is great. But nothing you do on a table-top will effect the fluff coming out, and that is not ONLY something you deal with as a player, it is also something many of us simply read as consumers of the IP, not participants. I don't play 40k anymore, and never really did to be honest. I paint stuff. But I have always been a fan of the IP. I am not looking to create my own entertainment here, I want them to do it for me and me to enjoy it. I don't buy a magazine and expect to have to fill in blank pages myself to enjoy it...

So, for those of us who consume the IP as passive fans, not players of the game, moving the story forward may be pretty exciting for us, especially 20-30 years in. Going back to the HH was cool, but we all know the broad strokes of what happens, it is headed on a pre-determined path, with a few twists thrown in for sure, but still a pre-determined path.

This will be exciting, because it will be the first time in a good long while we go into the unknown again, and I for one am all for it.

Requizen wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
The only thing he has said is that he doesn't know specifically who it is and that he only knows it isn't Russ and is a Loyalist for the next model coming out. Jonson makes the most sense from a story perspective with all the DA successors gathering at Fenris.

Assuming the Loyalist Primarch is showing up at Fenris. Last time Magnus was there, they fought him off (barely) without the help of Russ, so if the Loyalist one is part of a different campaign/narrative, it would make less sense for it to be Russ or Jonson.

The Magnus at Battle of the Fang may have been only a fragment of him.

I would love to find out that Cypher is the Lion and have him reveal himself to face Magnus as he returns.

Davor wrote:

 Vash108 wrote:
I wonder if GW will retcon Angron bring banished for 1000 years.

When was he banished? Maybe they will say it was 1000 years in the warp but only a few years (or centuries depending when he was banished) in real time. So for him it was a 1000 years of what ever he was in and he had a 1000 years of planning for vengeance/revenge but for us it was a few years/centuries when he was banished.

Easy, makes a " Eater of Worlds" campaign book, where BL, WB and WE makes a system-scale ritual to call back Angron into the mortal realm, adversaries would be some run of the mill Chapter with Inquisition and Sistas/IG, would be part 3 or 4 of the 13th Black Crusade.

While i don't like Magnus( die hard WE player), i'm glad that there is a model/rules for him and that it places a precedent, thats what people should be focused on, since they made the rules for Angron for Apo back in 2007, and there was no official model, its the First Primarch model made by GW, and thats something to rejoice i think.

Whats also promising is the fact that its a "Thousand Sons" faction model, and not a Chaos Daemon or CSM, wich sets a new trend, where we will finaly have what we asked since fething 3.5Ed?, proper Legions Codexes?

Now i don't know and nobody for that matter if the rules will be good or worthwhile, but honestly a bit of silverlining is what we need, GW is going in a way where they try to content the fans, i mean Deathwatch/GeneCult are niche armies that some players begged for decades and here they are, Kharn finaly got a new model, 13th Black Crusade is (re-)launched, there is confirmation for TS sprue and Sistas and a Deamon Primarch.

It will be a mess, a glorious and Chaotic Mess, but i think we all need to chill out and see where this is going.

 Lance845 wrote:
I would love to find out that Cypher is the Lion and have him reveal himself to face Magnus as he returns.

I guess a cloaked, hooded Clint Eastwood Unforgiven-esque Lion could be cool. They could even keep his return a Secret. Because Dark Angels.

It kind of ruins the whole King Arthur sleeping king angle though.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
I would love to find out that Cypher is the Lion and have him reveal himself to face Magnus as he returns.

I guess a cloaked, hooded Clint Eastwood Unforgiven-esque Lion could be cool. They could even keep his return a Secret. Because Dark Angels.

It kind of ruins the whole King Arthur sleeping king angle though.

It could arguably be both. Cypher just up and disappears without any trace over and over again. Cypher could be a manifestation of the Lion while his Primarch body is all nappy times in The Rock. Dumber things then that already exist in 40k.

Russ is coming from Forgeworld so a GW one as well would divide the sales. If there's a loyalist then the Lion would be my bet. Problem with Loyalists is you can't get a real monster centre piece like they can for the Daemons or Fantasy End Times. They might just stick with the Forgeworld versions for Loyalists as they won't have changed too much.

Wachaza wrote:
Russ is coming from Forgeworld so a GW one as well would divide the sales. If there's a loyalist then Lion or Gulliman would be my bet. Problem with Loyalists is you can't get a real monster centre piece like they can for the Daemons or Fantasy End Times.

They could just make him have a ridiculous amount of swirly things swirling around him like that Sigmarine boss guy.

Standing on the head of a Warlord titan...

Wachaza wrote:
Standing on the head of a Warlord titan...

No, chained down so he can surf on its head while hitting things with his sword in the nose awesome and 40k way possible. Think Megaboss on Maw-Crusha but Primarch on Heresy-Crusha.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

Wachaza wrote:
Standing on the head of a Warlord titan...

No, chained down so he can surf on its head while hitting things with his sword in the nose awesome and 40k way possible. Think Megaboss on Maw-Crusha but Primarch on Heresy-Crusha.

To bad the riding santa sleigh was already done.

No, no! Russ' giant sleigh is pulled by 6 other santa wolf sleighs!

Actually Russ' giant sleigh is pulled by Logan Grimnar.

 Mymearan wrote:
Actually Russ' giant sleigh is pulled by Logan Grimnar.

Who in turn is pulled by Russ, who is pulled by Russ' giant sleigh, like a dog trying to catch its tail.

 General Kroll wrote:
I like the sound of The Lion waking and pulling his legion together, that would have major ramifications. Since he's the heir apparent, who would stand in his way?

Sounds a bit unfair to release 2 traitor primarchs tho and no loyalists.

/pokerface