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It feels like there must have been something that changed, some new technology, or something, because it's plain to see that there's a trend developing with GW's minis. The model kits are getting more complex, and certainly a lot larger (wraithknight, for example), but it's going on in fantasy as well.

I mean, I'm looking at the level of complexity and detail of my stuff that was put into production but a few months ago, and then I look at the new lizardman stegadon or the vampire count's coven throne, or the maulerfiend, and it just boggles my mind. I mean, I feel like it wasn't THAT long ago that most of the minis you bought were single-piece metals that had more or less detail and sculpt quality depending on who happened to be doing the greens.

It almost seems... suspicious...

Presumably it's that GW has been able to figure out what auto-cad is, or something. Does anybody have any info on this?

 Ailaros wrote:
Presumably it's that GW has been able to figure out what auto-cad is, or something.

No presumably about it, they've confirmed they're doing a lot of digital sculpting and have been for a while (for example, one of my IA books has a CG image of the Valkyrie that is obviously done for the new kit). Unfortunately they seem to have balanced all of this improvement in the technical quality of their models with an appallingly bad design team for the aesthetic parts.

Plastic molding technology has gotten better.
We're seeing a lot of bigger models now because they can be fit on 2 sprues now.
GW can charge whatever they like for the new Wriathknight and cite how big it is as justification, but it's still only a 3 sprue kit so it would only cost them as much to make as a box of 10 infantry that use 3 sprues or one of the larger tanks.

The digital approach has sucked a lot of the character and style away from the minis.

JWhex wrote:
The digital approach has sucked a lot of the character and style away from the minis.

Well, so has the shift from "characters" to "profiles".

The move from doing multiple character models to instead doing a generic kit(the new "Farseer" plastic is a good example of this) means that you're going to get a nice model but with part of what made the older character models missing.

 Kanluwen wrote:

JWhex wrote:
The digital approach has sucked a lot of the character and style away from the minis.

Well, so has the shift from "characters" to "profiles".

The move from doing multiple character models to instead doing a generic kit(the new "Farseer" plastic is a good example of this) means that you're going to get a nice model but with part of what made the older character models missing.

Eh. It works to some of GW's strengths.

You don't get that kind of kit with Warmachine, but you do get loads
of Character.

I too have noticed this, a lot more shall we say larger models are being produced. As mentioned either technology as improved or again as mentioned GW have noticed they can charge more for the same amount of plastic, but that another issue.

Although the technology or process has improved will we be seeing an improvement in quality of moulding especially in finecast which is terrible quality.

Are you complaining because there are more bits per sprue? Because if you don't want your bits, your old pal Scipio is here.


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 leroy233 wrote:
I too have noticed this, a lot more shall we say larger models are being produced. As mentioned either technology as improved or again as mentioned GW have noticed they can charge more for the same amount of plastic, but that another issue.

Although the technology or process has improved will we be seeing an improvement in quality of moulding especially in finecast which is terrible quality.

Look at the pathfinders kit and compare it to the fire warriors kit.

the models are really getting overstuffed nowadays. every spare inch crammed full of detail.

My problem isn't lack of detail, it's too much of it.

A lot of these kits are very busy, the mini's have too much going on and you just have a hard time making things out. The chaos mini's in particular suffered from this in my opinion.

It always seems like they get carried away and just add way too much random things to the models, which makes them kind of hard to convert or personalize. But they do have very sharp detail at least.

I mean look at that abomination that's coming out for apocalypse for chaos. That thing is hideous.

Basically, modeling technology improved, their sculptors got worse.

Skulls, skulls and more skulls!

Bigger kits means bigger price means bigger profit!

I'm all for GW doing better and in some cases bigger kits.

They are putting forward a false economy which seems to be getting pretty short shrift from gamers; it's true they are cramming so much stuff on to sprues these days and I agree with them its a real boon to have all of the options you need but at the cost of miniature per box/per £/$/E.

As for the giant kits, they are a it hit and miss for me. I go for the aesthetic over game use and for some of my armies, like Undead, have just fallen flat. Others look great, the Tau and Eldar battle suits for example.

For me it has always been thus so I can't see much new change, but GW have always had a mantra of when in doubt go OTT they just seem to have more doubt these days.

The giant kits are usually of models it would be harder for other companies to produce. Unfortunately most of them are so fugly they pretty much drive people into the arms of other companies.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
My problem isn't lack of detail, it's too much of it.

A lot of these kits are very busy, the mini's have too much going on and you just have a hard time making things out. The chaos mini's in particular suffered from this in my opinion.

It always seems like they get carried away and just add way too much random things to the models, which makes them kind of hard to convert or personalize. But they do have very sharp detail at least.

I mean look at that abomination that's coming out for apocalypse for chaos. That thing is hideous.

Basically, modeling technology improved, their sculptors got worse.

its usually easy to just slice off a few of the worst offenders with your hobby knife.

I dont mind lots of details but they have crossed the line. it really is just too much at this point.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
A lot of these kits are very busy, the mini's have too much going on and you just have a hard time making things out.

IMO the problem isn't quantity of details, it's quality of details. An extreme amount of detail can make an awesome model as long as the detail all makes sense and is something the "real" thing would have. The problem with GW's recent releases is that there's no point to most of the detail, it's detail just for the sake of having more detail. So even things that should be fairly plain get covered in skulls, like the design team just dips all the models in glue and throws them into the bitz box.

 Peregrine wrote:
The problem with GW's recent releases is that there's no point to most of the detail, it's detail just for the sake of having more detail. So even things that should be fairly plain get covered in skulls, like the design team just dips all the models in glue and throws them into the bitz box.

Really well put.

I think the poster-boy for GW's new design approach is the Forsaken. So much detail that makes no sense that you don't even know what you are looking at:

Right, it's definitely seeming to work both ways.

Because while you're getting hideous attrocities like



You're also getting things like...





It's like, perhaps, what they're doing is trying to add the same amount of detail to every model, and it looks good on the big ones but not on the small ones.

In any case, though, I feel like 2 years ago, my greenstuff skills were good enough to replicate a decent-size chunk of what GW produced, given the time and motivation, and a decent-size chunk more with the inclusion of perhaps one or two skills into my skill set.

For the above two pictures, or for the new eldar fighter, etc. etc., I don't even know where I'd begin, much less if I'd ever actually be able to make a model even close to that.

 Ailaros wrote:
Right, it's definitely seeming to work both ways.

Because while you're getting hideous attrocities like

I don't know what metric you're using to judge atrocities by, but I think it might be broken...

Personally I think that Lord is an absolutely stunning model.

Personally I love the Chaos models in DV. I wish the rest of the range had it. I bought DV for the Chaos lord.

Yeah, that's the first time I've seen the Chaos stuff in DV criticised. Before now, it's been griping that the rest of the range doesn't match it.

I think the scuplting on some of the recent models is just HORRIBLE...impressive kits, just terrible sculpts...does anyone in your circle of gamers actually own any of the new Chaos Khorne Chariots? those things look like the vomit after a bad mushroom trip...Blanchitsu....what a load of garbage...
The question is ... " Who decides what gets produced " ?

The Dart Board??
Pin the tail on the Donkey?
Wheel of Misfortune?
Tiddlewinks?
The Night Janitor?
The 12 year old kid fresh off the Yu-gi-oh train?

Your guess is as good as mine...

I think the chaos lord has alot of potential.

I do wish it was less busy. Im also not sure about the wolf pelt thing, it looks too space wolves to me.

So complaints about too much detail now.

Wow.

Thank god we have the Internet.

 cincydooley wrote:
So complaints about too much detail now.

Wow.

Thank god we have the Internet.

You know, there is such a thing as balance. It's like belittling someone for complaining there's too much salt on their fries when there is a mound of salt on it.

As for the main topic... yeah, Games Workshop has been putting out quite a few stinkers. The Wraith Knight has a weird face, the Sun Shark looks funny and the fantasy releases can be very bizarre. I think they need to sit down with the design team and tell them "Think about what you are putting on the models instead of just going with whatever pops in your head".

-Loki- wrote:Yeah, that's the first time I've seen the Chaos stuff in DV criticised. Before now, it's been griping that the rest of the range doesn't match it.

My criticism of them has always been that they are way too busy for a starter product. They're covered in endless little things that have no business being on a person's first model. And then on top of that, I see the DV chaos as being totally over the top to the point of sillyness. I'm half surprised they didn't release rules for a hellbrute surfing on the back of a helldrake.

cincydooley wrote:So complaints about too much detail now.

Wow.

Thank god we have the Internet.

Just because something is good doesn't mean it's good in every possible quantity.

They are wizards.

 Ailaros wrote:
Right, it's definitely seeming to work both ways.

Because while you're getting hideous attrocities like

...atrocities?

The hell? That's a great model, if the rest of the range were brought up to the level of the DV chaos boxed set, I'd have bought a Chaos Marine army.

DV plastics? Atrocities? What???

It's interesting how divergent different people's tastes can be.
I love the DV Chaos models and think the Coven Throne is amongst the worst models they've produced.

I believe that the models recently made have a secondary function.

The difficulty of molding by the average person.