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Honestly, I'd rather at least have the option to take a weaker version of them, than being forced to take the stronger version like I am now.

EDIT: Clarification I'm talking about Warriors.

If they make the fluff about necrons rebelling against the c'tan i will no longer acknowledge my necron armies existance.

if however it is in reference to the c'tan using their necrons to fight each other then i can happily respect that.

Actually now that you mention it, it is pretty funny Immortals are essentially equivalent to our old warriors, bar any changes in weapons (rules and actual guns). So for 1 less point you have the same statline and wbb changed from a 4+ with some ways around it, to a 5+ with almost no way around it.

I love the idea of an army of T4 models which aren't 3+. It'll add an entirely new element to the metagame. Plasma and melta becomes less important, meaning lists everywhere will have to be reconsidered.

Like before:

The Good:
Necron wargear still being around, and available to the lesser Lords.

The Bad:
The Necrons are supposed to be better than Space Marines, man-for-bot. Apparently I was right, and Ward can't cope with the idea of anyone being better than his precious Ultramarines.

No longer being able to teleport Necrons out of combat.

Leadership as an Achilles' heel. They were immune once. Immune! It's like saying the Avatar's greatest weakness should be flamethrowers.

The Other:
Does the retcon on the C'tan mean they're no longer shoved into everyone else's backstory? Or does it mean Ward's got N times more C'tan to ruin the fluff with?

Return of Scarab armour disruption is good, but I'm not yet convinced by the implementation.

Except for grey knights, who will love our 4+ save models (psyfilmen, psycannons...)

In the end I hope GW doesn't do anything stupid, revolting changes to army's like the Necrons can be either good or bad.

Hope GW keeps that thin line in mind :p

AlexHolker wrote:
The Bad:
The Necrons are supposed to be better than Space Marines, man-for-bot. Apparently I was right, and Ward can't cope with the idea of anyone being better than his precious Ultramarines.

Where are you getting this? If you are talking about Destroyers or Wraiths then I agree. If you're talking about the basic Necron then they were never like that.

Yeah, I think that's a good point and pretty accurate. I think the alteration/different gauges of fluff are also tied to how historical they are. Like the art, 40k has aged and morphed into something that takes itself much more serious----and the fluff can represent that at times.

Balance wrote:

AgeOfEgos wrote:To be honest, I've always hated the C'Tan fluff. It seemed wedged into the 40kverse as a stopgap/hole filler...so I wouldn't mind seeing it die.

Considering it's made an appearance in the HH books though, guess I'll have to shut up and like it.

I liked it, but a major tenet of getting into the 40k setting, to me, is that everything is turned up to 11. Every Codex is completely and totally devoted to showing how awesome the featured army is. The Necrons were big players a few epochs ago and they're scary now, but Chaos has spent all that time getting smarter, tougher, and nastier.

Moopy wrote:

AlexHolker wrote:The Bad:
The Necrons are supposed to be better than Space Marines, man-for-bot. Apparently I was right, and Ward can't cope with the idea of anyone being better than his precious Ultramarines.

Where are you getting this? If you are talking about Destroyers or Wraiths then I agree. If you're talking about the basic Necron then they were never like that.

When they were first created, Necron Warriors were like Space Marines with better toughness, better armour, WBB, better AP/anti-armour gun and were immune to power weapons and all morale effects. Their downsides were their cost (50% more expensive than a space marine), lack of upgrades, and low Initiative.

Weren't they still Chaos Androids back then?

Anyway, you can't have both Legions and Super Elites. And, funnily enough, we have Legion Elites now, despite the paradox. The 3+ 5++ Warriors are exactly as durable as Space Marines. And for 12 points? What the heck do you want?

Better? No. The fluff has changed.

If the Necrons rebel against the C'tan, it pretty much kills what I liked about the fluff before. They will no longer be related to the army I used to like...

That said, I'm sure playing this new shooty-Ork army could be fun.

Spam removed.

tiekwando wrote:Actually now that you mention it, it is pretty funny Immortals are essentially equivalent to our old warriors, bar any changes in weapons (rules and actual guns). So for 1 less point you have the same statline and wbb changed from a 4+ with some ways around it, to a 5+ with almost no way around it.

Actually, their gun is significantly better than the Warriors gun. Unfortunately, Necrons would still appear to have no way to kill plague marines or Thunderwolves with what Yakface has rumored of their shooting so far.

What a seizurific reply slyfox.

If you're talking fluff wise, necrons aren't all that stronger than a marine, yes they are robots, but from any story I have read, a bolter can do some damage to them. What makes necrons scary is their ability to get back up after taking a shot to the head or an even more grievous wound, and that they do this, slowly advancing on their target. And even though I am a marine player, I welcome the supposed drop in their armor save, not because it makes them worse, but because to me it is nice to have other armies that don't feel like i'm playing just another marine army.

TheMostSlyFox wrote:ANOTHER Matt Ward 'super army'? ...

[img]crappy animation[img]

God I hope this post gets deleted.

Edit: Thanks Mods!

Just Dave wrote:

TheMostSlyFox wrote:ANOTHER Matt Ward 'super army'? ...

[img]crappy animation[img]

God I hope this post gets deleted.

Agreed, it'd be nice if we could just discuss the rumors in a reasonable fashion, without this subject coming up every page.


Anyway, My biggest concern now, is how large the initial release is going to be. Are we going to be talking Dark Eldar Size? with 7 kits initially, and a second wave shortly after?

I hope Yakface can continue to keep us updated, It's been very considerate of him to keep us informed like this. I can't wait for the next update.

God I hope this post gets deleted.

Agreed, crazy flashing silliness hurts the head.

On topic. I've been reading the comments and new information and as someone who always wanted to play Necrons, but never thought they had enough variety, most of the changes make me happy.
On them "killing the C'Tan" perhaps it's more of a trapping or escape of he C'tan powers, something like some of the lords "waking up" and realizing that their people, though immortal, have become nothing more than slaves to the C'tan and create steps to escape their masters or even trap them to be used as a former shell.

Korraz wrote:Weren't they still Chaos Androids back then?

No.

Aye I have been impressed with the lack of hate for Matt Ward over the last few pages despite the fact that whatever he writes is actually heavily directed by what GW wants the fluff/rules to be. I think the sort of information I would be interested in would be what plastics are out with the codex to be fair, if I had to guess I would say it would be similar amounts to Dark Eldar I would argue (for me at least) that a decent and viable amount was produced and hopefully they saw the success of that and understood maybe something similar should be done? Maybe I am wish listing now but it feels logical to me.

IIRC Kroothawk was saying that Immortals and mostly new stuff is in the 1st wave, whilst Warriors (with assorted coloured rods, possibly correlating to c'tan) are in the 2nd wave.
Some have said that they could be a DE sized release and I even heard someone briefly mention possibly the 1st resin miniatures.

Kroot's the man in the know however (and Yak of course)...

Miraclefish wrote:I love the idea of an army of T4 models which aren't 3+. It'll add an entirely new element to the metagame. Plasma and melta becomes less important, meaning lists everywhere will have to be reconsidered.

Orks. They are T 4, have open topped transports and aren't 3+ ....

Not so new Just saying


That said i would like the current meta shaken up (or down), and the same old netlists every game get tedious

I'm just hoping that they didn't nerfbat everything that was good in the current codex to force you to buy the new shiny stuff that won't be released for a year

I can't save that long, and would have long since blown it on other models

Sasori wrote:

Anyway, My biggest concern now, is how large the initial release is going to be. Are we going to be talking Dark Eldar Size? with 7 kits initially, and a second wave shortly after?

I hope Yakface can continue to keep us updated, It's been very considerate of him to keep us informed like this. I can't wait for the next update.

Agreed. Let's hope for a level of support along the lines of DE...and hope they don't end up being supported like Nids.


EDIT: And yeah...that initial release is going to be about as important in my decision to carry on with the army as how the actual dex lays out. I'm not going to put myself in the same position as my Nids where a year and a half later, I'm still waiting on models for some of the most common units/upgrades.

Frighteningly enough, these changes make me WANT to play the necrons.

I honestly like the sound of a tough and relatively heavily-armored troop base. A S4 T4 4+ army is something you honestly don't see much of around. They have the physical characteristics of Space Marines, but a slightly weaker armor save. That doesn't change the fact that the basic Necron troop is still most definitely heavy infantry. They're just not as uber-elite as Space Marines anymore. In game terms, I like this. It makes them more unique without making them feel like an entirely different army.

I think the change in saves, WBB, and point cost might actually work. It lets you play a more horde-ish phalanx of doom rather than a few groups of super soldiers. Fluffwise I think 3+ saves 4+WBB and 12 points would make sense (look at the current codex cover, that's a lot of dudes!) But for balance reasons you cant have a horde army thats also elite. This is a nice balance that mixes durability with an unending tide of deathless warriors.

As for the C'tan here is my theory: We know the big 4 ate or destroyed their other bretheren. I think the new fluff just has the 4 current C'tan use their Necron armies to kill their rivals. The new elite choice we're getting are the rival C'tan that were enslaved by the big 4. They were broken down into shards of their former selves and made to serve the big 4 and their Necron servants. So the named C'tan should still be around.

Overall this new batch of rumours makes me feel a little happier after the first set, which were somewhat dissapointing IMO.

Finally, kudos to Yakface!

Problem 1: Necron players already own a lot of Warriors.
Problem 2: The Necron Warrior box will not be recut as the return on investment would not be very high, so making the mould isn't worth it, so GW can't entice existing players with a new Warrior model.

Solution 1: Make Necron Warriors cheaper and weaker so you need more of them. Existing Necron players will need to buy more.
Solution 2: Make Scarabs even better than they are now. You can only get them in Warrior boxes, so existing Necron players will want to buy more.

Good to see GW once again starting (and ending) with how they can sell more models rather than making a better game...

H.B.M.C. wrote:Problem 1: Necron players already own a lot of Warriors.
Problem 2: The Necron Warrior box will not be remade as the return on investment would not be very high, so making the mould isn't worth it, so GW can't entice existing players with a new Warrior model.

Solution 1: Make Necron Warriors cheaper and weaker so you need more of them. Existing Necron players will need to buy more.
Solution 2: Make Scarabs even better than they are now. You can only get them in Warrior boxes, so existing Necron players will want to buy more.

Good to see GW once again starting (and ending) with how they can sell more models rather than making a better game...

I've just got rid of my Necrons (bar the Monoliths) in preps for the new release and new models. The current Necrons Warriors are good, but I want a more refined and look, new models are always good. I'm hoping they go in the direction of the Fall of Damnos cover, it's a fresh look, yet not to unlike the current ones. Old players don't HAVE to buy the new models unless they want to increase their army size.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Problem 1: Necron players already own a lot of Warriors.
Problem 2: The Necron Warrior box will not be recut as the return on investment would not be very high, so making the mould isn't worth it, so GW can't entice existing players with a new Warrior model.

Solution 1: Make Necron Warriors cheaper and weaker so you need more of them. Existing Necron players will need to buy more.
Solution 2: Make Scarabs even better than they are now. You can only get them in Warrior boxes, so existing Necron players will want to buy more.

Good to see GW once again starting (and ending) with how they can sell more models rather than making a better game...

Actually, judging from what we know so far, I think they've achieved both (see Asimo's point above). Even then, being able to field Immortals as troops would then contradict the need to get more warriors as you can use Immortals instead...