6th edition 40k rumors (from Blood of Kittens)

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**gorgon**

Man, some of this really turns stuff on its head.

If I'm reading things right, Lictors (specifically their pheromone trails, assuming they don't change) could be devastating. *IF* you can keep them alive for a turn after they arrive on turn 2 (flank guard), they can call in accurate deep strikes for rear guard stuff on turn 3, which can then charge if they're within 6" of a target. Scratch that...within 8" if we're talking about Raveners.

More controlled reserves also mean Trygon tunnels are legitimately in play, although I guess there may be qualifiers (flank guard? rear guard?) on what can enter this way. Still, my reserve Tyranids would be even more fun under these rules.

**Davor**

I am surprsied nobody made comments on the SM FAQ.

**winterman**

Yeah I was thinking the exact same thing gorgon. Makes me glad I own 6 lictors

Also it doesn't look like drop pods were errated as far as how they scatter, so trygons and mawlocs could be quite interesting under these new rules too, depending on their erratas.

But at the same time tyranid stuff will die much more readily to shooting. Think missile spam is bad now for TMCs? how about getting hit on 2+ by BS4? So it seems like that is the balance -- stuff moves and assaults faster, but is also hit a bit more often. Also terrain will seriously slow down assault armies much more then now. SUre they can garauntee 12-18 inches of move, but terrain drops that down to 6 a turn, even if assaulting

I am also interested to know how exactly move through cover works now. The rumor states it ignores terrain but does that mean you can fleet through terrain? What about going last?

**Morathi's Darkest Sin**

So wait, does the SM FAq semi confirm that this is possibly accurate, or just folks being aware of those little footnotes like Fearless (2)

I am eager for any change though if I'm honest, 40K is fun, but it could be alot more fun, and alot of these changes are pointing it that way for me.

Hell after getting into Infinity recently, it reminded me of what an actual complex wargame looked like, and thats crazy fun. So a little more to be aware of in 40K would not be a bad thing in my book.

**gorgon**

Seems like the obvious translation would be fleet through terrain but still suffering terrain effects in CC, but who knows? If MCs still have MtC, that should help the Trygons at least.

Yeah, right now it's looking like more large units of gribblies over MC-heavy builds. But I guess there's tons we don't know even if this is all accurate.

Another big one there for reserve lists is that you don't need Hive Commander as much anymore. The extra harrier (still with +1?) is nice, but not really necessary. Perhaps the Parasite will become the reserve HQ du jour.

@Morathi -- I think the SM errata means it's at very least a very well-done hoax.

**Omegus**

wyomingfox wrote:
Bold_or_Stupid wrote:the cults are: Khorne Berzerkers, Nurgle Plague Marines, Slaanesh Noise Marines and Tzeentch Thousand sons.

The legioans are: Alpha Legion, Black Legion,Death Guard, Emperors Children, Iron Warriors, Night Lords, Thousand Sons, Word Bearers and World Eaters. At least two of these has been subsumed entirely into a cult Troop type.

Well, Thousand Sons and Death Guard are all a "cult Troop type". It's very probable all the Emperor's Children eventually became noise marines.

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:What's that Smell, Ah it's only BS.

The veracity of these rumors has been at least partially confirmed by tastytaste, who is a playtester for GW and has been providing very solid rumors for a long time. But you are welcome to your skepticism. I'm sure the final product will only partially resemble this.

**FalkorsRaiders**

More from the Blood of Kitten's 6th edition leaker...
http://bloodofkittens.com/network/groups/grey-knight-rumors/

rideroftheerk wrote:
- models that have charged already locked unit have I 10 this turn
- Assume leadership: Standard bearers, etc. that assume leadership count as squad leader in all respects (two saves, directed wounds), any other model that assumes leadership only in regard of performing unit actions
- if you deploy in 24” distance from enemy you cannot shoot with 24” weapon or assault with 24” movement
- models must always consolidate out of 1” of vehicle after attacking it, if locked in combat with another unit, vehicles are ignored for pile in moves after combat, must use this pile in move to bring 1” between unit an vehicle, artillery and walkers are obviously exceptions
- swarms have Eternal Warrior (1)
- Seize the initiative: same name, but completely different rule: stratagem, 1 str. point, after the deployment of both force, but before placing infiltrators, roll a D6, on 5+, enemy must place infiltrators in contact with his own table edge, no scout moves allowed
- whole unit or squadron must make the same reaction
- Pistols: got confused by what I though were two contradicting short statements; units with pistols can attack with pistol’s S, AP1,2,3 pistols confer Rending (2) (Rending on 5+), Gets Hot! wounds count against combat resolution,
on charge: can make full attacks
in any other turn: can make single attack, does not get bonus of second ccw, etc.
- if both player agree, the charge movement and pile in move before combat can be made as one move with combined movement distance after the first model was engaged to fasten things up
- Characters: shooting wounds are directed, too
- Advanced rules: evasion value (normal rules: always use short distance), all reactions, Torrent of Fire, Directed wounds, damage chart modifiers for AP, flyer mode, ramming, Stratagems: bidding stays intact but only re-rolls can be taken, unique units, measuring*
* normal rules: can measure anytime you want, advanced: movement: measure full movement distance you want to go, i.e. 6” for a advancing, can’t measure 12” surge distance, anything else: measure distance to target
you play either all advanced rules or none at all
- Hit & Run: still random: 3D6” consolidation move
- Morale checks for casualties: only in enemy’s shooting phase
- witchblade can now cause ID after psychic test like force weapons
- there is a small box for rare movement situations: if infantry unit moves as jump infantry (or any other unit type has movement rules of another unit type), it uses the jump infantry movement rules, but for shooting and close combat it counts as original unit type, so it is still easy to hit, if an unit moves flat out and there is no column in the to hit chart, take the moving column, exotic movements count as ‘moving’ even if faster than flat out move, deep striking units count as ‘moving’ , if units that are immobile arrives from reserves but not via deep strike, they are placed in contact with table edge normally and remain there for the rest of the game, we shall assume the the bunker has decloaked or something similar, units disembarking from deep striking vehicles use the disembarking rules for charging, so no charge unless fleet rule
- Master-crafted: re-roll one to hit roll, if several models attack with master-crafted weapons of the same type, roll the dice together, then re-roll as many dice as there are master-crafted weapons
- if you shoot through interfering models, you cannot snipe

running out out steam because I don’t get the errata info and I have reached even the tiny details of the rules
but I have one big thing left:
- monstrous creatures: 2D6 versus vehicles, ignore armour, move as infantry unless stated otherwise, are ignored for Abandon as ICs, IGNORE TERRAIN WHEN CHARGING

What do we think?

**Evil Lamp 6**

Complicated, if true, to say the least.

**Omegus**

Yeah, even at the basic level there is a lot to keep track of, even before you consider that there are apparently three levels of rulesets: normal, advanced, and narrative.

Still, there are games with that level of complexity and they play just fine (the old epic rings a bell). We'll just have to wait and see. We've seen hoax codices before, but those looked like a labor of love (really, no different than someone's homebrew codex of which there are plenty released under the guise of being "real").

This mess would have taken an enormous amount of time to no real gain. I'm sure even if it's true, not all of this will make it in the final product.

**Kroothawk**

Some more tidbits by ghost21:

6th ed is planned to last a good few years perhaps 8 ish

... and on new Codices/lists:

expect extensive cult lists but not books, same with other legions
(...)
a cult legion list is significantly different to a cult list .. if you catch my meaning

Lungboy wrote:Genestealer-Cult list?

eventually but expect it to be wd only
(...)
honestly there will be a cult list that you pick n choose , one way will be genestealers the other chaos , or as far as i understand
not exactly a full list but close enough to please people (and i did say eventually)
the mystery release is stil sheduled for sept

**Shadelkan**

I guess I don't like change as much as I thought, because all this depresses me. It makes me feel like the game I know is dying... Though maybe its just evolving into something better.

I don't know.

**Brother Ramses**

I have expressed this on a local forum;

After reading all the rumors and proposed changes, GW is sending 40k into the crapper in an attempt to play catch-up to all the new game systems, however all they have done is just over complicate the hell out of a very easy game.

**Happygrunt**

Took all these rumors with a salt mine.

Some stuff looks good, some looks bad, but it invalidates almost everyone's codex.

**Stanley Rubric**

Brother Ramses wrote:I have expressed this on a local forum;

After reading all the rumors and proposed changes, GW is sending 40k into the crapper in an attempt to play catch-up to all the new game systems, however all they have done is just over complicate the hell out of a very easy game.

My feeling is that GW needed to do something to fix issues in 40K and some of these rule changes sound great. But, I agree that it seems they have realized that they basically stagnated for 14 years and are cramming everything but the kitchen sink in there to try and appease all the people who play other systems. The irony of it all is that after waiting so long for a real upgrade to 40K this system might just be so overcomplicated that it causes people to turn away from the game. Good thing Mantic is building a 40K sized game with cheaper minis and a simple rule set to catch all those people who leave 40K when 6th comes out!

**Lysenis**

I lke the idea of having different rule levels. That will make game fun in multiple aspects while allowing campaigns to be more story based. This will allow GT players to practicse their advanced rules and let those of us that enjoy creating amazing and crazy stories (Khorne berzerkers breaking through a wall to only get burnt to a crisp bu a Flamestorm weilding Baal) enjoy our games as well.

To me this will bring about a whole different level of gaming for 40K in general.

If this turns to be true I am all for it!

**ShatteredBlade**

I both welcome and abhor these changes.

**Brother Ramses**

Stanley Rubric wrote:
Brother Ramses wrote:I have expressed this on a local forum;

After reading all the rumors and proposed changes, GW is sending 40k into the crapper in an attempt to play catch-up to all the new game systems, however all they have done is just over complicate the hell out of a very easy game.

My feeling is that GW needed to do something to fix issues in 40K and some of these rule changes sound great. But, I agree that it seems they have realized that they basically stagnated for 14 years and are cramming everything but the kitchen sink in there to try and appease all the people who play other systems. The irony of it all is that after waiting so long for a real upgrade to 40K this system might just be so overcomplicated that it causes people to turn away from the game. Good thing Mantic is building a 40K sized game with cheaper minis and a simple rule set to catch all those people who leave 40K when 6th comes out!

It isn't fixing anything by just completely trashing the old system. That is called reinventing the game entirely. I will try playing the new system, but if half of this crap is real, I will be one of tbose that leave this game.

Just had a thought;

With all the new rules along with the different levels of play, expect the starter set to have model, "cards" for ruls and stats, just like all the new game systems. Pokemon/Magic 40k 6th Edition!!

**ShatteredBlade**

Well I have gone to a better place. A place filled with missus Pelz fish sticks.

**Earthbeard**

Shadelkan wrote:I guess I don't like change as much as I thought, because all this depresses me. It makes me feel like the game I know is dying... Though maybe its just evolving into something better.

I don't know.

These rumours, the cancelling of SWG and EVE's rather rapid plummeting fiery doom, have made my hobby/gaming week one hell of a depressing time.

**Omegus**

What happened to EVE Online?

**ShumaGorath**

if this is true

I for one applaud games workshops attempt to trash an old and awful gaming system and replace it with one that has at least a chance to be good. Players have accepted the silent agreement for years that 40k has great fluff and models but awful and non sensical gameplay. I'd prefer to have three good things instead.

Given that this is a massive bullet list of random, half remembered tidbits it should surprise no one that it sounds complicated. Change is like that when you don't have it formatted with simple pictures. There are a lot of people that still don't understand fifth because 40k is a bad game with poorly written rules. Just because you got half an AIM conversation without context doesn't mean the subject in question is somehow difficult to comprehend. It just means you're trying to figure it out through a very blurry lens.

**Omegus**

Enough of you and your logic and positive thinking!

**Zefig**

ShumaGorath wrote:if this is true
Given that this is a massive bullet list of random, half remembered tidbits it should surprise no one that it sounds complicated. Change is like that when you don't have it formatted with simple pictures. There are a lot of people that still don't understand fifth because 40k is a bad game with poorly written rules. Just because you got half an AIM conversation without context doesn't mean the subject in question is somehow difficult to comprehend. It just means you're trying to figure it out through a very blurry lens.

This is reminding me a lot of something.

Let's see. Widely disputed, questionably documented, with camps vehemently denying as well as hoping against hope for.

Either way, it looks pretty hair and is probably more than a bit smelly.

**Sidstyler**

If the changes are real then learning the new edition would be a little more complicated at first, but hopefully much more rewarding than playing a game now. Of course I doubt the new edition will be any more well-written or balanced than the current one just because it's GW we're talking about but surprises are always nice.

Well, good surprises like rules exceeding your expectations are nice, "bad" surprises like not knowing your army is getting an update until the week before it happens not so much.

**puma713**

So, with all these rumors, we can expect a War-and-Peace sized rulebook? It'll come with a calculator, a compass (to help divine your unit's movement), a tablet computer to help you keep up with all the new rules, and a calendar, so you can plan out the weeks it'll take to play a single game. Tournaments with 3 games in 7 hours? Ha! Now tournaments with 3 games will be 7 days! Take that Warmachine/Flames of War!

**Shadelkan**

Earthbeard wrote:
Shadelkan wrote:I guess I don't like change as much as I thought, because all this depresses me. It makes me feel like the game I know is dying... Though maybe its just evolving into something better.

I don't know.

...and EVE's rather rapid plummeting fiery doom...

What's wrong with EVE?

Either way, I cheered up when I remembered that the gaming system is only a small aspect of why I play; and hell, if 6th changes so much, I can always stick to 5th ed rules. This all reminds me of Wizards of the Coast and D&D; they didn't ruin it with 4.0, because you can always go back to 3.5; and NOTHING stops you from making house rules up. I collect 40k because I love the fluff and the models, and little will change that.

**Sidstyler**

Exaggerated post is an exaggeration. If the rulebook did come out with all that though I would finally consider paying $80 for it. lol

What's wrong with EVE?

Plenty. But I'm curious as well since I didn't know EVE was doing that badly.

**Shadelkan**

Sidstyler wrote:Exaggerated post is an exaggeration. If the rulebook did come out with all that though I would finally consider paying $80 for it. lol

What's wrong with EVE?

Plenty. But I'm curious as well since I didn't know EVE was doing that badly.

As horribly off topic as this subject is... I beg to differ that there's anything wrong at all. If you find EVE boring, that's totally subjective, and not really something wrong with it; you just don't like the style. Otherwise, as someone who enjoys the style of game EVE offers, I haven't noticed much wrong with it. In fact, I wish GW were as good as CCP is, in terms of... EVERYTHING!

**chaos0xomega**

I'm liking these rumors less and less the more I hear about them (and I was originally quite optimistic). I think this is for two reasons:

1. GW is seemingly trying to hamstring a complex ruleset into an inherently simple core engine. The new rumors don't seem like they will mesh very well with the existing system, and would be better served by a complete overhaul of everything (including the army books) rather than the "patch and FAQ" attitude GW seems to have adopted, which will only result in confusion and even more rule inconsistencies then we have now.

Which leads me to my second reason:

2. If the new edition that GW is going to be putting out really is so massively different, then they should cease codex development now (I would argue they should have done it a while ago), and direct all efforts to putting out the new rulebook as soon as possible. Continuing down this path is going to result in the last 2 or 3 codecies in this release cycle not seeing an update again for ages, and ending up severely nerfed as a result. This is especially upsetting to me, because I started life as a Tau player towards the end of 3rd/start of 4th. With the release of 4th, the Tau army was broken, although not terribly so. I suffered under such a state until the release of the 4th ed. Tau codex, which made them whole and new again, and it was good... until about a year later when GW released 5th edition, and broke the army again... even worse than the first time. I also happened to pick up Necrons as a second army... I'm sure you can see why I might be upset by all this, especially considering that both Tau and Necrons are rumored to be among the last three releases before 6th hits...

**ShatteredBlade**

Well, I've always thought that the best way to deal with the Imperial Guard Parking lot and transport spam was to make infantry a little bit more survivable and useful. It'd be kinda funny to see 6th edition hit and Tyranids moving back up to their 4th ed broken spot.