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Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight




Spado wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I'm legit confused by PF/SS Custodians? Did I miss a configuration for Aquillon Terminators?

Talk about redonk. S10 3d punching with no downside, and a 1+3++ +1 to save rolls?


In 30k your basic custodes can be equipped with powerfists and stormshields but apparently I cannot do that in 40k xD.

@Tiberias: thanks a lot for your answer!

Last question for now: should I wait before buying the codex? Are there any rumors about when the ninth edition codex will be available?

Cheers,

Spado


No rumors for us. Seems to be at least 3 months at a minimum. AdMech, Orks and Imperial Knights likelt next based on contents of Book of Rust.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Two part question, but if I wanted to drop a few hundred bucks on FW stuff to flesh out Custodes, where would I begin? We're mostly competitive players, so viability and things which lift up the army in general would be great.

Second... a LOT of Custodes stuff on Forgeworld seems to be sold out. Is that typical, or are they downsizing their lines again?

11527pts Total (7400pts painted)

4980pts Total (4980pts painted)

3730 Total (210pts painted) 
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight




NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Two part question, but if I wanted to drop a few hundred bucks on FW stuff to flesh out Custodes, where would I begin? We're mostly competitive players, so viability and things which lift up the army in general would be great.

Second... a LOT of Custodes stuff on Forgeworld seems to be sold out. Is that typical, or are they downsizing their lines again?


I saw someone previously say that they are re-doing the product codes which is why they're listed as unavailable.

The most competitive things currently are the Dreads.

Galatus: Anti-elite infantry/elite-characters
Achilles: Anti-tank
Telemon: Probably our best shooting loadout, anti-tank melee
   
Made in at
Dakka Veteran




Audustum wrote:
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Two part question, but if I wanted to drop a few hundred bucks on FW stuff to flesh out Custodes, where would I begin? We're mostly competitive players, so viability and things which lift up the army in general would be great.

Second... a LOT of Custodes stuff on Forgeworld seems to be sold out. Is that typical, or are they downsizing their lines again?


I saw someone previously say that they are re-doing the product codes which is why they're listed as unavailable.

The most competitive things currently are the Dreads.

Galatus: Anti-elite infantry/elite-characters
Achilles: Anti-tank
Telemon: Probably our best shooting loadout, anti-tank melee


While everything Audustum said is true, I just wanted to throw in venatari as a suggestion. I am biased towards them, I'll be the first to admit that, but they are great nonetheless and they pop up more and more in competitive lists.
   
Made in de
[DCM]
Aspirant Tech-Adept






That guy was me. And I got it from our Discord, where a regular told me so.
The Gallatus went back to temporarily not available and the Telemon is also gone for now. I cant imagine them axeing THAT model.

But considering everything - Telemons are excellent. Mostly used with Arachnus, but you get durable ranged AT and - if you give him fists, can punch through anything. Galatus and Achilles are awesome in their own roles as well.
Venetarii shine if you let them double-tap their pistols via strat support.
Aquilon Custodians are hot right now too - Powerfists with no to-hit malus are a threat to anything.
And last but not least, the humble palas grav-attack - always good to zoom to an objective or flyer-like snipe a character.

Data author of DA/AdM on Battlescribe
Report bugs here:
https://github.com/BSData/wh40k/issues 
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight




 Thairne wrote:
That guy was me. And I got it from our Discord, where a regular told me so.
The Gallatus went back to temporarily not available and the Telemon is also gone for now. I cant imagine them axeing THAT model.

But considering everything - Telemons are excellent. Mostly used with Arachnus, but you get durable ranged AT and - if you give him fists, can punch through anything. Galatus and Achilles are awesome in their own roles as well.
Venetarii shine if you let them double-tap their pistols via strat support.
Aquilon Custodians are hot right now too - Powerfists with no to-hit malus are a threat to anything.
And last but not least, the humble palas grav-attack - always good to zoom to an objective or flyer-like snipe a character.


It was you!

I will say only be careful with the Aquillons. They're one of my favorites, but they are doing you no favors in a matchup against Death Guard since they become 1 damage.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I'm glad to hear what's "good" aligns with my own rule of cool. I love Dreads (I own 16 different varieties across all my 40k armies) and Termies, so I am excited to build my shopping list around a bunch of those! Thanks guys.

11527pts Total (7400pts painted)

4980pts Total (4980pts painted)

3730 Total (210pts painted) 
   
Made in at
Dakka Veteran




What do you guys think about this list? Game plan is to take Trajann with the sagittarium guard and dreadnought up the middle, while the vertus praetors and venatari go wherever they need to be alongside the bike captain. The shield squad is parked on one objective and likely just stays there.
I went with strategic mastermind and lockwarden on the bike captain because strategic mastermind should pay for itself and lockwarden allows him to hunt characters better.

Things I have considered:
-making the bike captain the standard superior creation, indomitable constitution beefcake.
-cutting the shield squad and instead going for a squad of prosecutors to have some cheap backfield objective holding
-arachnus storm cannon instead of accelerator culverin on the telemon


Spoiler:

2k Shadowkeepers (BBCode)

++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) [100 PL, 8CP, 2,000pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

Shield Host: Shadowkeepers

+ HQ +

Captain-General Trajann Valoris [10 PL, 190pts]

Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike [9 PL, -1CP, 175pts]: Captain-Commander, Hurricane Bolter, Lockwarden, Strategic Mastermind, Warlord

+ Troops +

Custodian Guard Squad [7 PL, 156pts]
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield

Sagittarum Custodians [10 PL, 265pts]
. Sagittarum Custodian: Misericordia
. Sagittarum Custodian: Misericordia
. Sagittarum Custodian: Misericordia
. Sagittarum Custodian: Misericordia
. Sagittarum Custodian: Misericordia

+ Elites +

Contemptor-Achillus Dreadnought [9 PL, -1CP, 160pts]: Eternal Penitent, 2x Lastrum Storm Bolter

Contemptor-Galatus Dreadnought [9 PL, -1CP, 170pts]: Eternal Penitent

+ Fast Attack +

Venatari Custodians [16 PL, 275pts]
. Venatari Custodian
. . Kinetic Destroyer and Tarsus Buckler
. Venatari Custodian
. . Kinetic Destroyer and Tarsus Buckler
. Venatari Custodian
. . Kinetic Destroyer and Tarsus Buckler
. Venatari Custodian
. . Kinetic Destroyer and Tarsus Buckler
. Venatari Custodian
. . Kinetic Destroyer and Tarsus Buckler

Vertus Praetors [16 PL, 349pts]
. Vertus Praetor: Misericordia, Salvo Launcher
. Vertus Praetor: Misericordia, Salvo Launcher
. Vertus Praetor: Misericordia, Salvo Launcher
. Vertus Praetor: Salvo Launcher

+ Heavy Support +

Telemon Heavy Dreadnought [14 PL, -1CP, 260pts]: Eternal Penitent, Iliastus Accelerator Culverin
. Telemon Caestus

++ Total: [100 PL, 8CP, 2,000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




Your kill Squad of Sag+Trajaan will get reliably deleted fairly quickly by several of the more common armies in 9th. Everything is too killy now. With Custodes, it's sit back, and camp objectives=win. Boring, but save for our dreads, charging up the middle like the charge of the Light Brigade ends just as tragically.
   
Made in at
Dakka Veteran




FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Your kill Squad of Sag+Trajaan will get reliably deleted fairly quickly by several of the more common armies in 9th. Everything is too killy now. With Custodes, it's sit back, and camp objectives=win. Boring, but save for our dreads, charging up the middle like the charge of the Light Brigade ends just as tragically.


Well yes, but no. Sure many things are killy in 9th, but considering out stratagem support, it takes a lot to delete 5 saggitarum. And if the opponent is determined to do so and invests a lot of his resources and CP into doing so, I'm totally fine with it, because I have 5 other units that pose an even greater threat.
Maybe I phrased it poorly, but the intention isn't to just charge up the middle, but get onto a center objective an hold it. Now there is of course an argument to be made that shield guard are better suited for that, but I thought having a unit that can be dangerous while sitting on an objective like the saggitarum is also worth considering.
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight




Tiberias wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Your kill Squad of Sag+Trajaan will get reliably deleted fairly quickly by several of the more common armies in 9th. Everything is too killy now. With Custodes, it's sit back, and camp objectives=win. Boring, but save for our dreads, charging up the middle like the charge of the Light Brigade ends just as tragically.


Well yes, but no. Sure many things are killy in 9th, but considering out stratagem support, it takes a lot to delete 5 saggitarum. And if the opponent is determined to do so and invests a lot of his resources and CP into doing so, I'm totally fine with it, because I have 5 other units that pose an even greater threat.
Maybe I phrased it poorly, but the intention isn't to just charge up the middle, but get onto a center objective an hold it. Now there is of course an argument to be made that shield guard are better suited for that, but I thought having a unit that can be dangerous while sitting on an objective like the saggitarum is also worth considering.


We're still fairly durable until you slam into AdMech or the MW-spam-Chaos-Soup list (Magnus, Lord of Change, Ahriman, giant blob of horrors, Deamon Prince, other stuff, does about 15-40 MW a turn). Against AdMech, Sags are probably just gonna melt (but everything does except MAYBE sword+board, I haven't tried them on the Mars crew since their buff). Everything is gonna melt to those though so not much you can do about it.
   
Made in at
Dakka Veteran




Audustum wrote:
Tiberias wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Your kill Squad of Sag+Trajaan will get reliably deleted fairly quickly by several of the more common armies in 9th. Everything is too killy now. With Custodes, it's sit back, and camp objectives=win. Boring, but save for our dreads, charging up the middle like the charge of the Light Brigade ends just as tragically.


Well yes, but no. Sure many things are killy in 9th, but considering out stratagem support, it takes a lot to delete 5 saggitarum. And if the opponent is determined to do so and invests a lot of his resources and CP into doing so, I'm totally fine with it, because I have 5 other units that pose an even greater threat.
Maybe I phrased it poorly, but the intention isn't to just charge up the middle, but get onto a center objective an hold it. Now there is of course an argument to be made that shield guard are better suited for that, but I thought having a unit that can be dangerous while sitting on an objective like the saggitarum is also worth considering.


We're still fairly durable until you slam into AdMech or the MW-spam-Chaos-Soup list (Magnus, Lord of Change, Ahriman, giant blob of horrors, Deamon Prince, other stuff, does about 15-40 MW a turn). Against AdMech, Sags are probably just gonna melt (but everything does except MAYBE sword+board, I haven't tried them on the Mars crew since their buff). Everything is gonna melt to those though so not much you can do about it.


I'm not sure how I would deal with 15-40 mw a turn unless I properly tech into sisters and/or a culexus. But I mean every faction has a bad match up.
As for admech, yeah I agree...dakkabots with full rerolls and wrath of mars is arguably the most lethal shooting potential in the game. But if I went up against admech and my opponent chose to melt my saggitarum, wouldn't he kinda do me a favor, because I my bikes and dreadnoughts pose a bigger threat?
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight




Tiberias wrote:
Audustum wrote:
Tiberias wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Your kill Squad of Sag+Trajaan will get reliably deleted fairly quickly by several of the more common armies in 9th. Everything is too killy now. With Custodes, it's sit back, and camp objectives=win. Boring, but save for our dreads, charging up the middle like the charge of the Light Brigade ends just as tragically.


Well yes, but no. Sure many things are killy in 9th, but considering out stratagem support, it takes a lot to delete 5 saggitarum. And if the opponent is determined to do so and invests a lot of his resources and CP into doing so, I'm totally fine with it, because I have 5 other units that pose an even greater threat.
Maybe I phrased it poorly, but the intention isn't to just charge up the middle, but get onto a center objective an hold it. Now there is of course an argument to be made that shield guard are better suited for that, but I thought having a unit that can be dangerous while sitting on an objective like the saggitarum is also worth considering.


We're still fairly durable until you slam into AdMech or the MW-spam-Chaos-Soup list (Magnus, Lord of Change, Ahriman, giant blob of horrors, Deamon Prince, other stuff, does about 15-40 MW a turn). Against AdMech, Sags are probably just gonna melt (but everything does except MAYBE sword+board, I haven't tried them on the Mars crew since their buff). Everything is gonna melt to those though so not much you can do about it.


I'm not sure how I would deal with 15-40 mw a turn unless I properly tech into sisters and/or a culexus. But I mean every faction has a bad match up.
As for admech, yeah I agree...dakkabots with full rerolls and wrath of mars is arguably the most lethal shooting potential in the game. But if I went up against admech and my opponent chose to melt my saggitarum, wouldn't he kinda do me a favor, because I my bikes and dreadnoughts pose a bigger threat?


The Chaos soup list is gaining prominence so the only concern is it may be a meta staple if you're doing tournaments. Makes hitting it more likely.

Last time I fought AdMech, they just blew everything off the board. Their gunline prowess is truly terrifying. Someone wrote this for a different army, but it applies to us too:


attempts a 9 inch charge
then dies along with big bird
from the return fire
while you clench your butthole trying to make 4000 3++s but they don't care and even bird is like hey, i'm dead


AdMech is less about what you bring and more about how you move on terrain and taking very passive, defensive secondaries.
   
Made in at
Dakka Veteran




Spoiler:
Audustum wrote:
Tiberias wrote:
Audustum wrote:
Tiberias wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Your kill Squad of Sag+Trajaan will get reliably deleted fairly quickly by several of the more common armies in 9th. Everything is too killy now. With Custodes, it's sit back, and camp objectives=win. Boring, but save for our dreads, charging up the middle like the charge of the Light Brigade ends just as tragically.


Well yes, but no. Sure many things are killy in 9th, but considering out stratagem support, it takes a lot to delete 5 saggitarum. And if the opponent is determined to do so and invests a lot of his resources and CP into doing so, I'm totally fine with it, because I have 5 other units that pose an even greater threat.
Maybe I phrased it poorly, but the intention isn't to just charge up the middle, but get onto a center objective an hold it. Now there is of course an argument to be made that shield guard are better suited for that, but I thought having a unit that can be dangerous while sitting on an objective like the saggitarum is also worth considering.


We're still fairly durable until you slam into AdMech or the MW-spam-Chaos-Soup list (Magnus, Lord of Change, Ahriman, giant blob of horrors, Deamon Prince, other stuff, does about 15-40 MW a turn). Against AdMech, Sags are probably just gonna melt (but everything does except MAYBE sword+board, I haven't tried them on the Mars crew since their buff). Everything is gonna melt to those though so not much you can do about it.


I'm not sure how I would deal with 15-40 mw a turn unless I properly tech into sisters and/or a culexus. But I mean every faction has a bad match up.
As for admech, yeah I agree...dakkabots with full rerolls and wrath of mars is arguably the most lethal shooting potential in the game. But if I went up against admech and my opponent chose to melt my saggitarum, wouldn't he kinda do me a favor, because I my bikes and dreadnoughts pose a bigger threat?


The Chaos soup list is gaining prominence so the only concern is it may be a meta staple if you're doing tournaments. Makes hitting it more likely.

Last time I fought AdMech, they just blew everything off the board. Their gunline prowess is truly terrifying. Someone wrote this for a different army, but it applies to us too:


attempts a 9 inch charge
then dies along with big bird
from the return fire
while you clench your butthole trying to make 4000 3++s but they don't care and even bird is like hey, i'm dead


AdMech is less about what you bring and more about how you move on terrain and taking very passive, defensive secondaries.


A good friend recently picked up admech and really likes dakkabots, so I'll be facing that more recently I suppose. What secondaries would you recommend against them? Something like attrition, engage, and raise the banners?

No tournaments where I'm from in the forseeable future, so I'm not as concerned about the Chaos soup list...for now. Also let's say that list becomes a meta list and the chances are rather high that you run into it....how do you deal with that? One culexus probably won't be enough against such a psychic output and teching into a lot of sisters kinda weakens our ability to deal with other lists doesn't it?
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight




Tiberias wrote:
Spoiler:
Audustum wrote:
Tiberias wrote:
Audustum wrote:
Tiberias wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Your kill Squad of Sag+Trajaan will get reliably deleted fairly quickly by several of the more common armies in 9th. Everything is too killy now. With Custodes, it's sit back, and camp objectives=win. Boring, but save for our dreads, charging up the middle like the charge of the Light Brigade ends just as tragically.


Well yes, but no. Sure many things are killy in 9th, but considering out stratagem support, it takes a lot to delete 5 saggitarum. And if the opponent is determined to do so and invests a lot of his resources and CP into doing so, I'm totally fine with it, because I have 5 other units that pose an even greater threat.
Maybe I phrased it poorly, but the intention isn't to just charge up the middle, but get onto a center objective an hold it. Now there is of course an argument to be made that shield guard are better suited for that, but I thought having a unit that can be dangerous while sitting on an objective like the saggitarum is also worth considering.


We're still fairly durable until you slam into AdMech or the MW-spam-Chaos-Soup list (Magnus, Lord of Change, Ahriman, giant blob of horrors, Deamon Prince, other stuff, does about 15-40 MW a turn). Against AdMech, Sags are probably just gonna melt (but everything does except MAYBE sword+board, I haven't tried them on the Mars crew since their buff). Everything is gonna melt to those though so not much you can do about it.


I'm not sure how I would deal with 15-40 mw a turn unless I properly tech into sisters and/or a culexus. But I mean every faction has a bad match up.
As for admech, yeah I agree...dakkabots with full rerolls and wrath of mars is arguably the most lethal shooting potential in the game. But if I went up against admech and my opponent chose to melt my saggitarum, wouldn't he kinda do me a favor, because I my bikes and dreadnoughts pose a bigger threat?


The Chaos soup list is gaining prominence so the only concern is it may be a meta staple if you're doing tournaments. Makes hitting it more likely.

Last time I fought AdMech, they just blew everything off the board. Their gunline prowess is truly terrifying. Someone wrote this for a different army, but it applies to us too:


attempts a 9 inch charge
then dies along with big bird
from the return fire
while you clench your butthole trying to make 4000 3++s but they don't care and even bird is like hey, i'm dead


AdMech is less about what you bring and more about how you move on terrain and taking very passive, defensive secondaries.


A good friend recently picked up admech and really likes dakkabots, so I'll be facing that more recently I suppose. What secondaries would you recommend against them? Something like attrition, engage, and raise the banners?

No tournaments where I'm from in the forseeable future, so I'm not as concerned about the Chaos soup list...for now. Also let's say that list becomes a meta list and the chances are rather high that you run into it....how do you deal with that? One culexus probably won't be enough against such a psychic output and teching into a lot of sisters kinda weakens our ability to deal with other lists doesn't it?


So I've been trying to develop counters to the Chaos soup list for about 3 weeks now. It mostly boils down to: Bring a Culexus, snag 2-3 prosecutor squads (you have 6 elite slots in a battalion) for 180 points and shove them up mid-field. Aim and fire at Magnus whenever you get the opportunity. Ignore the LoC, he's almost impossible to kill. If you're fighting a variant with Morty, prioritize him over Magnus (he's squishier too, as crazy as that sounds).

For AdMech, the mission specific secondary is always a good thing to check. There are some you can double up on (like Dominate + the one that is for Sweep and Clear, I think). Engage is good if you're running speedy Custodes (Bikes, Venatarii). Banners is O.K. on 6 objective maps. Deploy Scramblers is always a safe secondary when you are unfavored in a match-up (deep strike one small unit to get the one off in the enemy deployment zone). AdMech has no deny the witch so if you can hang in the center bring an Inquisitor and do Psychic Ritual (but that's AdMech specific, normally you want a Culexus in that slot). They're going to use Serberys Dogs to try and pin you in your deployment zone so you can't score primary. Be up against your deployment line and use the heroic intervention strat (if going second) to try and break the wall early. Linebreaker can work if the terrain has no-vision slots in deployment zones. Get a HQ and one unti deep struck in that corner and just hang on for points.

Dakkabots are most terrifying with Wrath of Mars. With Cawl behind them, it's something like 4-5 MW per bot. So a squad of 5 is putting about 20MW plus normal damage on a target.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/03/31 14:49:14


 
   
Made in at
Dakka Veteran




Audustum wrote:
Tiberias wrote:
Spoiler:
Audustum wrote:
Tiberias wrote:
Audustum wrote:
Tiberias wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Your kill Squad of Sag+Trajaan will get reliably deleted fairly quickly by several of the more common armies in 9th. Everything is too killy now. With Custodes, it's sit back, and camp objectives=win. Boring, but save for our dreads, charging up the middle like the charge of the Light Brigade ends just as tragically.


Well yes, but no. Sure many things are killy in 9th, but considering out stratagem support, it takes a lot to delete 5 saggitarum. And if the opponent is determined to do so and invests a lot of his resources and CP into doing so, I'm totally fine with it, because I have 5 other units that pose an even greater threat.
Maybe I phrased it poorly, but the intention isn't to just charge up the middle, but get onto a center objective an hold it. Now there is of course an argument to be made that shield guard are better suited for that, but I thought having a unit that can be dangerous while sitting on an objective like the saggitarum is also worth considering.


We're still fairly durable until you slam into AdMech or the MW-spam-Chaos-Soup list (Magnus, Lord of Change, Ahriman, giant blob of horrors, Deamon Prince, other stuff, does about 15-40 MW a turn). Against AdMech, Sags are probably just gonna melt (but everything does except MAYBE sword+board, I haven't tried them on the Mars crew since their buff). Everything is gonna melt to those though so not much you can do about it.


I'm not sure how I would deal with 15-40 mw a turn unless I properly tech into sisters and/or a culexus. But I mean every faction has a bad match up.
As for admech, yeah I agree...dakkabots with full rerolls and wrath of mars is arguably the most lethal shooting potential in the game. But if I went up against admech and my opponent chose to melt my saggitarum, wouldn't he kinda do me a favor, because I my bikes and dreadnoughts pose a bigger threat?


The Chaos soup list is gaining prominence so the only concern is it may be a meta staple if you're doing tournaments. Makes hitting it more likely.

Last time I fought AdMech, they just blew everything off the board. Their gunline prowess is truly terrifying. Someone wrote this for a different army, but it applies to us too:


attempts a 9 inch charge
then dies along with big bird
from the return fire
while you clench your butthole trying to make 4000 3++s but they don't care and even bird is like hey, i'm dead


AdMech is less about what you bring and more about how you move on terrain and taking very passive, defensive secondaries.


A good friend recently picked up admech and really likes dakkabots, so I'll be facing that more recently I suppose. What secondaries would you recommend against them? Something like attrition, engage, and raise the banners?

No tournaments where I'm from in the forseeable future, so I'm not as concerned about the Chaos soup list...for now. Also let's say that list becomes a meta list and the chances are rather high that you run into it....how do you deal with that? One culexus probably won't be enough against such a psychic output and teching into a lot of sisters kinda weakens our ability to deal with other lists doesn't it?


So I've been trying to develop counters to the Chaos soup list for about 3 weeks now. It mostly boils down to: Bring a Culexus, snag 2-3 prosecutor squads (you have 6 elite slots in a battalion) for 180 points and shove them up mid-field. Aim and fire at Magnus whenever you get the opportunity. Ignore the LoC, he's almost impossible to kill. If you're fighting a variant with Morty, prioritize him over Magnus (he's squishier too, as crazy as that sounds).

For AdMech, the mission specific secondary is always a good thing to check. There are some you can double up on (like Dominate + the one that is for Sweep and Clear, I think). Engage is good if you're running speedy Custodes (Bikes, Venatarii). Banners is O.K. on 6 objective maps. Deploy Scramblers is always a safe secondary when you are unfavored in a match-up (deep strike one small unit to get the one off in the enemy deployment zone). AdMech has no deny the witch so if you can hang in the center bring an Inquisitor and do Psychic Ritual (but that's AdMech specific, normally you want a Culexus in that slot). They're going to use Serberys Dogs to try and pin you in your deployment zone so you can't score primary. Be up against your deployment line and use the heroic intervention strat (if going second) to try and break the wall early. Linebreaker can work if the terrain has no-vision slots in deployment zones. Get a HQ and one unti deep struck in that corner and just hang on for points.

Dakkabots are most terrifying with Wrath of Mars. With Cawl behind them, it's something like 4-5 MW per bot. So a squad of 5 is putting about 20MW plus normal damage on a target.


Thanks, that's great advice.

Edit: forgot to ask, what's the rest of the list gonna look like? The sisters are great at soaking up MWs, but they won't live that long on the front line I guess. So is the plan to buy 1-2 turns with the sisters and try to down morty in that time for example?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/03/31 16:10:15


 
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




Storm cannon Telemon still reliably drop dakka bots at range, as do Aquilons with bolters and fists on the charge. So so stock terminators, come to think of it. Chaos, those guys scare me.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






So if a DA succubus or murder archon can delete an entire squad of shield guard or saggitarum guard (kill about 3-4 in one fight phase on average), are we still appropriately pointed?


Note these are sub 100pt models taking out 156-212pts worth of custodes in a single phase on average.............



Either GW loosing their mind or they have plans for custodes later on.


I dont think dropping our points would be appropriate either though, as that makes certain factions and players hate on us even harder. Orks, tau, and non mortal spewing tyranids already have a really hard time against custodes as is.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/01 23:08:43


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 Eihnlazer wrote:
So if a DA succubus or murder archon can delete an entire squad of shield guard or saggitarum guard (kill about 3-4 in one fight phase on average), are we still appropriately pointed?


Note these are sub 100pt models taking out 156-212pts worth of custodes in a single phase on average.............



Either GW loosing their mind or they have plans for custodes later on.


I dont think dropping our points would be appropriate either though, as that makes certain factions and players hate on us even harder. Orks, tau, and non mortal spewing tyranids already have a really hard time against custodes as is.


Forget us, two kitted Succubi can one round KO Mortarion. For 120 points (combined).

We're basically paper against this force. We have to fight it at range and bring Hurricane Bolters.
   
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Tiberias wrote:
Audustum wrote:
Tiberias wrote:
Spoiler:
Audustum wrote:
Tiberias wrote:
Audustum wrote:
Tiberias wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Your kill Squad of Sag+Trajaan will get reliably deleted fairly quickly by several of the more common armies in 9th. Everything is too killy now. With Custodes, it's sit back, and camp objectives=win. Boring, but save for our dreads, charging up the middle like the charge of the Light Brigade ends just as tragically.


Well yes, but no. Sure many things are killy in 9th, but considering out stratagem support, it takes a lot to delete 5 saggitarum. And if the opponent is determined to do so and invests a lot of his resources and CP into doing so, I'm totally fine with it, because I have 5 other units that pose an even greater threat.
Maybe I phrased it poorly, but the intention isn't to just charge up the middle, but get onto a center objective an hold it. Now there is of course an argument to be made that shield guard are better suited for that, but I thought having a unit that can be dangerous while sitting on an objective like the saggitarum is also worth considering.


We're still fairly durable until you slam into AdMech or the MW-spam-Chaos-Soup list (Magnus, Lord of Change, Ahriman, giant blob of horrors, Deamon Prince, other stuff, does about 15-40 MW a turn). Against AdMech, Sags are probably just gonna melt (but everything does except MAYBE sword+board, I haven't tried them on the Mars crew since their buff). Everything is gonna melt to those though so not much you can do about it.


I'm not sure how I would deal with 15-40 mw a turn unless I properly tech into sisters and/or a culexus. But I mean every faction has a bad match up.
As for admech, yeah I agree...dakkabots with full rerolls and wrath of mars is arguably the most lethal shooting potential in the game. But if I went up against admech and my opponent chose to melt my saggitarum, wouldn't he kinda do me a favor, because I my bikes and dreadnoughts pose a bigger threat?


The Chaos soup list is gaining prominence so the only concern is it may be a meta staple if you're doing tournaments. Makes hitting it more likely.

Last time I fought AdMech, they just blew everything off the board. Their gunline prowess is truly terrifying. Someone wrote this for a different army, but it applies to us too:


attempts a 9 inch charge
then dies along with big bird
from the return fire
while you clench your butthole trying to make 4000 3++s but they don't care and even bird is like hey, i'm dead


AdMech is less about what you bring and more about how you move on terrain and taking very passive, defensive secondaries.


A good friend recently picked up admech and really likes dakkabots, so I'll be facing that more recently I suppose. What secondaries would you recommend against them? Something like attrition, engage, and raise the banners?

No tournaments where I'm from in the forseeable future, so I'm not as concerned about the Chaos soup list...for now. Also let's say that list becomes a meta list and the chances are rather high that you run into it....how do you deal with that? One culexus probably won't be enough against such a psychic output and teching into a lot of sisters kinda weakens our ability to deal with other lists doesn't it?


So I've been trying to develop counters to the Chaos soup list for about 3 weeks now. It mostly boils down to: Bring a Culexus, snag 2-3 prosecutor squads (you have 6 elite slots in a battalion) for 180 points and shove them up mid-field. Aim and fire at Magnus whenever you get the opportunity. Ignore the LoC, he's almost impossible to kill. If you're fighting a variant with Morty, prioritize him over Magnus (he's squishier too, as crazy as that sounds).

For AdMech, the mission specific secondary is always a good thing to check. There are some you can double up on (like Dominate + the one that is for Sweep and Clear, I think). Engage is good if you're running speedy Custodes (Bikes, Venatarii). Banners is O.K. on 6 objective maps. Deploy Scramblers is always a safe secondary when you are unfavored in a match-up (deep strike one small unit to get the one off in the enemy deployment zone). AdMech has no deny the witch so if you can hang in the center bring an Inquisitor and do Psychic Ritual (but that's AdMech specific, normally you want a Culexus in that slot). They're going to use Serberys Dogs to try and pin you in your deployment zone so you can't score primary. Be up against your deployment line and use the heroic intervention strat (if going second) to try and break the wall early. Linebreaker can work if the terrain has no-vision slots in deployment zones. Get a HQ and one unti deep struck in that corner and just hang on for points.

Dakkabots are most terrifying with Wrath of Mars. With Cawl behind them, it's something like 4-5 MW per bot. So a squad of 5 is putting about 20MW plus normal damage on a target.


Thanks, that's great advice.

Edit: forgot to ask, what's the rest of the list gonna look like? The sisters are great at soaking up MWs, but they won't live that long on the front line I guess. So is the plan to buy 1-2 turns with the sisters and try to down morty in that time for example?


Against that specific list you'll probably have some around turn 3 still. LoC and Magnus won't want to get in melee range do that just leaves Morty.

Downing Morty in the time they buy you is a high priority. The other is just stay safe and stay alive. The list and it's variants are really low on ObSec. Grab Dominate and just hang onto 50%+1 in objectives until you absolutely can't to block primary and compound scoring advantage. If you can make it to the bottom of T3 you have decent odds it can't recover.

So lots of Sword+Board and a little bit of either Venatari or Jetbikes.
   
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You can't play us vs our worst match ups, and ask if we are properly point set. It's like saying Relic Shocc gun can theoretically 1 turn ko a Warhound, it should cost 500pts. But it's not how that works. Nor should it. We are likely to see some buffs, but we still can camp and win against more than 50% of the factions in game currently. We deserve to get our butts whooped for one or two months. I'm just glad something non-power armor is on top now.
   
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Its not even like they are our worse match-up though. DE was actually trash against stodes before they got their codex and were basically handed everything they needed to curb stomp us.


If every new faction coming out is handed this kind of offence we literally have no chance in the upcoming meta.

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In My Lab

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Its not even like they are our worse match-up though. DE was actually trash against stodes before they got their codex and were basically handed everything they needed to curb stomp us.


If every new faction coming out is handed this kind of offence we literally have no chance in the upcoming meta.
Why were DE trash against Custodes? I don't see anything, conceptually, that'd make them bad-heck, Poison is good against Custodes 'cause it negates their Toughness advantage!

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I never had an issue with dark eldar since the start of 8th. They were basically a nerfed version of halequins that had some durable backfield campers.


No fusion boats, less killy characters, no 3++ bikes with loads of haywire (they had haywire, but rarely took it to tournies cause of durability issues).


Now they are even stronger than harlies in melee and cronos and talos are more durable giving them more midfield presence.

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They could still do our two weaknesses: Hordes, loads of cheap attacks, and psyker stuff.

All of those are what kills us everytime.

Granted this new dex dails that up to 15, but still. They were never say...GSC level of bottom tier. I'd say with a skilled player you can still go far with them prior dex.
   
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FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
They could still do our two weaknesses: Hordes, loads of cheap attacks, and psyker stuff.

All of those are what kills us everytime.

Granted this new dex dails that up to 15, but still. They were never say...GSC level of bottom tier. I'd say with a skilled player you can still go far with them prior dex.


I think you're partially thinking of Craftworld or Ynnari. Pure dark elder which I'll admit was very rare and almost never seen, doesn't have any psycher power.

chords are never a problem if you do what I always recommend and just run 10 hurricane bolter jetbikes.
   
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That succubus is an obvious rules snafu that is going to get FAQed, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Not even GW could have actually intended that interaction.
   
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yukishiro1 wrote:
That succubus is an obvious rules snafu that is going to get FAQed, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Not even GW could have actually intended that interaction.


Can you cue me in on this? I'm just picked up some of the broader new dark eldar rules, I don't know what their characters can be exactly kitted out to do.
Can they now build a succubus that dishes out a lot of MWs? Or has a bazillion flat dmg3 attacks? The archon with djin blade can do that, right?
   
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The one they talking about uses the whip, which gets 2 attacks for every attack the succubus makes. With +1 attack combat drug she gets 14 attacks. Then her special trait let's her attack again for every attack that doesn't inflict damage. Then because of bad wording she attacks with the whip again and doubles her attacks again.


So she either does 28 damage with her initial 14 attacks or all the way up to 56 damage if she fails with her first 14 attacks.


It is an obvious mistake, but its technically RAW till they FAQ it.

All this on a 60-75pt character
The other build uses a flat 3 damage weapon and a trait to turn the attack to mortals on a 6 to hit for potentially 21 mortals.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/02 17:55:39


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There's a cheese interaction with a weapon that lets you make multiple hit rolls per attack, and then a trait that lets you make 1 additional attack for every hit roll that didn't result in damage (i.e. didn't wound, was saved, FNPed, etc). So you end up getting a bajillion attacks as every one of the initial pile that doesn't result in damage creates 2 more. It'll be FAQed for sure so that the trait only lets you get one additional hit roll per failure.

Similarly there's another build that does MW equal to the damage characteristic of the weapon for every 6 to hit and then you combo it with a 3 damage weapon and hope to roll 2 6s to kill most characters, that one may stay and will be good at chewing through custodes.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/04/02 18:01:42


 
   
 
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