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The Space Wolves are the most loyal of all chapters aside from the Grey Knights themselves. Despite their misgivings, the Ecclesiarchy would have a hard time supporting a protracted war against the Wolves.

I think I just have a deeply seeded hatred for anything viking-esque. I think one must have stolen my bottle as a baby.

I like them, but that's probably from playing too much Lost Vikings in my childhood.

asimo77 wrote:More like boorish, inbred, womanizing idiots.

Thats the Emperors Childern

Attacking 1ksons for no reason anyone?

They were under orders. BY THE EMPEROR

Actually its funny I mention that because the 1ksons kinda reminded me of the nerd empowered fantasy,

*facepalm*
they are Egyptians...
Who want to learn everything in their lust for knowledge they damn themselves

and the fact that the SW are their nemisis is kinda fitting given their d-bag, broski persona.

Fail
Sorry. But that theory is wrong. They are not D-bags. Of all the chapters ever created. The Space wolves are the strongest and honor imperial soldiers.
Broski persona? That is misspelled wrong. Do you mean Brockie Persona? Like Macho?

The loyalty of the Grey Knights seems more programmed and thus less authentic to me.

I could say the same thing about every Space Marine chapter. But the Grey Knights are the only one who, officially, have had not a single Marine turn to Chaos or be corrupted by Chaos. Their loyalty is completely unquestioned.

Is there a fallen Black Templar? Or are we going by the codex needing to say "none have fallen"? Because the codices say a lot of things. Like how Orks, Tyranids, and Necrons will each individually wipe out all other factions.

Melissia wrote:I could say the same thing about every Space Marine chapter. But the Grey Knights are the only one who, officially, have had not a single Marine turn to Chaos or be corrupted by Chaos. Their loyalty is completely unquestioned.

And this is why the Wolves are my favourite SM chapter. They are loyal to a fault, but not because they think they must, but because it's the honourable thing to do.

They've certainly disobeyed their fair share of orders because they thought them unjust.

Manchu wrote:Is there a fallen Black Templar?

I would say yes, there have been Black Tempars that have, likely individually, fallen to Chaos. And Space Wolves. And Ultramarines. And so on.

Individuals at a time, rather than entire squads or companies. But they're still there. Possibly disappearing after a battle, or their body is never found after a defeat against the forces of Chaos, they're assume to still be fighting the Enemy but in truth...

Yikes sorry for insulting the space furries Asherian but I was impressing my view of the typical frat boy which is kinda how I've always seen the SW designed as.

If you want to get into semantics and be obtuse then they aren't Egyptians, they are space sorcerers from a fictional universe. I think you mean egyptian inspired.

I also corrected myself on the attacking Prospero bit, sorry for not memorizing the entirety of this particular plastic men's background.

The "d-bag broski" thing was me attempting to crack into the vernacular so as to express my view of SW being party boys, maybe I'm not up to date with my slang but isn't "broski" synonomous with a "partying college kid"? Maybe I should watch the Big Lebowski again.

Instead of describing 1k sons as the nerd fantasy maybe it's better to point out that they are obsessed with learning and are aloof; while SW are party fiends and popular with the common man. In other words, opposites of each other.

People seem to like the wolves because of their "stick it to the man" and constant good times shtick (did I get that right?) which from what I gather implies some sort of fantasy or wish fufillment from the fans i.e. they wish they were the popular cool dudes in space fighting their oppresive governemt. Now if we take the idea of SM chapters/legions being a fantasy for different kinds of people, I think the "empowered nerd" fits the 1ksons better than any other group.


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Also Lost Vikings ftw

Melissia wrote:I could say the same thing about every Space Marine chapter. But the Grey Knights are the only one who, officially, have had not a single Marine turn to Chaos or be corrupted by Chaos. Their loyalty is completely unquestioned.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the Grey Knights so damned loyal because they've had their memory wiped and put through comical levels of training? It's unquestioned loyalty because they have no humanity.


Also, Space Wolves just remind me how damned awesome it would be to have a Salamanders Army. They are very alike, Salamanders and Space Wolves. Easily the most "human" of the chapters (can't salamanders even have families?), and are generally loved by all. Hell, they likely don't have their own army but rather a special character in SM codex simply because they are to alike to space wolves.

asimo77 wrote:People seem to like the wolves because of their "stick it to the man" and constant good times shtick (did I get that right?) which from what I gather implies some sort of fantasy or wish fufillment from the fans i.e. they wish they were the popular cool dudes in space fighting their oppresive governemt. Now if we take the idea of SM chapters/legions being a fantasy for different kinds of people, I think the "empowered nerd" fits the 1ksons better than any other group.

Oh dear...and we can't possibly like the Wolves because we might be coming from a Nordic country(which I'm not, but since we're already generalising...) and we love the fluff inspired by our ancestry, or that we always had a fascination with Vikings? Or that the prospect of unruly, fair-hearted rebel spirits fascinates us as persons, not as wannabe frat-boys. Then again, all of us here are playing 40k, so we must all be greasy Cartmans with beards. And that naturally goes for the chicks too, however disturbing the image might be.

I don't know why anyone would want to embrace vikings, considering they just went around pillaging and causing a ruckus. And unfortunatley the stereotype of the tabletop gamer is a greasy neckbeard.

And what's wrong with bearded ladies? That's discrimination man!

asimo77 wrote:I don't know why anyone would want to embrace vikings, considering they just went around pillaging and causing a ruckus. And unfortunatley the stereotype of the tabletop gamer is a greasy neckbeard.

And what's wrong with bearded ladies? That's discrimination man!

The appeal is most likely rooted in the manly nature that Vikings personify. They drink, they have muscle, they have facial hair on their facial hair. This coupled with gods who were human like without being complete sex fiends (like the greek/roman gods) makes for a culture that not only seems relate able, but also a culture that someone can still strive towards being similar to. It's a shame people get it mixed up a slight bit, thinking that Vikings were fighting to be powerful badasses, rather than fighting for their families and honor, which has led to people to relate vikings with frat culture, heavy metal culture, and muscle culture. I mean for christs sake, they were one of the only European cultures that had fighting women, why is it people forget crap like this and instead replace it with crap like "they have horn helmets" which isn't true.

EDIT:

Really, space wolves aren't that viking-ish. For instance, Wolves weren't venerated, Wolves were feared creatures with the lead wolf being what is to devour the damned world.

Vikings weren't rebels, they were fighters during certain seasons and farmers in others. The only thing viking like in Space Wolves, is the idea of drinking halls and the strong sense of brotherhood, which honestly, you'll find in any culture with famed warriors.

Calling a female version of Cartman with a beard disturbing is discriminatory? Then I am indeed a whatever you want to call me.

As for the Vikings, because they are one of the ancient, influential culture of the old Europe. And just like any other such culture, it has its fans.


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Namica wrote:It's a shame people get it mixed up a slight bit, thinking that Vikings were fighting to be powerful badasses, rather than fighting for their families and honor, which has led to people to relate vikings with frat culture, heavy metal culture, and muscle culture. I mean for christs sake, they were one of the only European cultures that had fighting women, why is it people forget crap like this and instead replace it with crap like "they have horn helmets" which isn't true.

And there we go again with generalisations...actually, they fought primarily for resources, because Scandinavia was and still is a largely rugged, inhospitable country, scarce of farmland. But they were excellent fishermen and sailors and built sturdy ships, so they raided instead of farming and cultivating crops. Which, naturally, bred them to be more of a fighting sort than the surrounding nations, or at least to be remembered as such in the eyes of history. But they were indeed badasses nonetheless.

And the reason Vikings are associated with heavy metal is because Nordic countries have the greatest abundance of heavy metal bands anywhere in the world. Headbanging is almost a part of their folklore.

As for the frat culture...I wouldn't know. In this part of the Europe at least, fraternities only exist on telly, and is a bit of comical relief to students here.

asimo77 wrote:
Also Lost Vikings ftw

asimo77 wrote:I don't know why anyone would want to embrace vikings!

So Vikings = or ?

Maybe Hägar FTW too?
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Back to the codex:

The TWc are P.Kellys fault alone. But we've seen the M.ward treatment too ( SM, BA ).

I'd guess the top 5 is:

- IG
- orks
- WH
- eldar
- SM

If you want to say "vikings did horrible things so they're not cool", then there is no such thing as a cool people.

Christian knights? Yep, they did plenty of horrible things. Mongols? Oh yeah. THe germanic tribes? Yep. The Arabic armies under the likes of Saladin and other such heroes? Yes. And so on and so forth. All modern armies have their occasional Manchu notes an error in the word filter, and medieval armies were certainly no exception.

I'm guessing

Eldar
WH
SM
IG
Orks

In that order. Eldar I can see having to much tunnel vision, WH having good concept poor execution, SM for their solid play but lul stories. IG for being the everyman army (lots of personality), and Orks for being a fun concept in sci-fi while still fitting in.

Namica wrote:Orks for being a fun concept in sci-fi while still fitting in.

And it's this exact thing that causes me to have such a problem with Orks. They don't fit in because they are fun. This is the darkest of dark universes, it doesn't need comedic relief. If the Orks were less goofy, I would be more ok with them, but as of now, they seem to exist only to provide stupid jokes and lame aesthetics. I know they will never remove Orks from the game, they are way to popular, and they do have their place, I just wish GW would make them more serious, the terrifying, numberless monsters they're supposed to be, not a bunch of idiots that are trying to be "funny."

Orks ARE dark. You're just not looking beyond the surface to the true horror of the Ork menace.

Flaming_Spider wrote:

Namica wrote:Orks for being a fun concept in sci-fi while still fitting in.

And it's this exact thing that causes me to have such a problem with Orks. They don't fit in because they are fun. This is the darkest of dark universes, it doesn't need comedic relief. If the Orks were less goofy, I would be more ok with them, but as of now, they seem to exist only to provide stupid jokes and lame aesthetics. I know they will never remove Orks from the game, they are way to popular, and they do have their place, I just wish GW would make them more serious, the terrifying, numberless monsters they're supposed to be, not a bunch of idiots that are trying to be "funny."

You want them to be more serious? If you make them more serious, they'd just be IG with more muscle and bad vehicles. They are plenty "serious" when you consider many of the implications of the culture. Think how many Orks die, how many worlds die to Orks. Remember that they do have a society, a primitive society, but one that works. They are able to have this while still fitting in simply because every other race damn near forces you to take it WAY to seriously. Orks are the norm, others are the extreme.

Namica wrote:If you make them more serious, they'd just be IG with more muscle and bad vehicles.

No they wouldn't. Guard doesn't have anti-tank lightning guns, or guns which transport things into other things, or nine foot tall nobz which can sneak around as well as any Eldar, or huge TDA-quality armor, and so on and so forth. Orks have plenty to separate them from Guard.

Orks don't need to be "funny" to be cool. I think they're inherently cool.

Melissia wrote:

Namica wrote:If you make them more serious, they'd just be IG with more muscle and bad vehicles.

No they wouldn't. Guard doesn't have anti-tank lightning guns, or guns which transport things into other things, or nine foot tall nobz which can sneak around as well as any Eldar, or huge TDA-quality armor, and so on and so forth. Orks have plenty to separate them from Guard.

Orks don't need to be "funny" to be cool. I think they're inherently cool.

I mean from a fluff stand point, of course as an army they are incredibly different. Without their more carefree life style, as an army, they'd likely be nameless soldiers fighting the good fight against someone ala the IG.

In other words, Ork society is based around not being serious, it's based around making the most out of life. Making them serious would make them something other than Orks.

No, I'm fairly certain Orks take war very seriously. War is their life, their purpose, their love, their addiction, their raison d'être. They do everything they can to make war, and they give it their all for the sake of war, and winning. Their mindset is very alien to us, but that does not mean that they are not serious about what they do.

Melissia wrote:No, I'm fairly certain Orks take war very seriously. War is their life, their purpose, their love, their addiction, their raison d'être. They do everything they can to make war, and they give it their all for the sake of war, and winning. Their mindset is very alien to us, but that does not mean that they are not serious about what they do.

True enough, I've just always seen war, for Orks, to be a big game. Sure, they do take it seriously, but they are in it for the fun of it, unlike every other race in WH40K which is either in to conquer, defend, or terrorize.

I think I got serious mixed up with something else. I mean Orks are simple, you can't make them to complex (culture wise) or they'll lose what their focus is: A good fight.

EDIT: Heh, this train of thought is starting to push my first army choice closer to Orks. Nids still seem to be ahead in the score card in my mind though.

Well, it's either IG or Orks for numero uno on this list. And I'm currently leaning to IG despite all this waxing poetic about greenskins.

Oh, Orks have a culture outside of war. But it's usually about preparing for war.

"Kiss the face-eating squigs" competitions, races (shooting at the drivers is perfectly acceptable), brawls and fighting competitions, betting on the former, their own pair of religions (Which constantly fight eachother), their own styles of beer brewing (fungus beer, which is actually reasonable because certain kinds of fungus indeed perform alcohol fermentation as part of their biological process of generating energy), and so on.

Melissia wrote:Oh, Orks have a culture outside of war. But it's usually about preparing for war.

"Kiss the face-eating squigs" competitions, races (shooting at the drivers is perfectly acceptable), brawls and fighting competitions, betting on the former, their own pair of religions (Which constantly fight eachother), their own styles of beer brewing (fungus beer, which is actually reasonable because certain kinds of fungus indeed perform alcohol fermentation as part of their biological process of generating energy), and so on.

Like I said, their focus is: A Good Fight XD everything in their culture is about having a good fight. Betting which leads to fights, racing which leads to fights, drinking which leads to fights. I don't think I've ever heard of an Ork doing something that wasn't about leading to a fight.

I could say the same thing about humans in general, but let's leave that for another thread.

Namica wrote:

Melissia wrote:Oh, Orks have a culture outside of war. But it's usually about preparing for war.

"Kiss the face-eating squigs" competitions, races (shooting at the drivers is perfectly acceptable), brawls and fighting competitions, betting on the former, their own pair of religions (Which constantly fight eachother), their own styles of beer brewing (fungus beer, which is actually reasonable because certain kinds of fungus indeed perform alcohol fermentation as part of their biological process of generating energy), and so on.

Like I said, their focus is: A Good Fight XD everything in their culture is about having a good fight. Betting which leads to fights, racing which leads to fights, drinking which leads to fights. I don't think I've ever heard of an Ork doing something that wasn't about leading to a fight.

What about classy orcs?


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600 post is mine