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juraigamer wrote:

General Seric wrote:

I was just wondering how exactly you play a pure Tzeentch army

You should start off with a batch or two of flamers of tzeentch, they are most excellent in killing infantry of all kinds plus can down a vehicle or two on a good day.
Then of course horrors, with their excellent ranged attack against infantry and the ability to take the bolt of t.
Then, some screamers of course, since they kill vehicles dead.
Toss in a demon prince or two and 2-4 hq of your choice and roll with it. Most suggest focusing your infantry on shooting while your hq and heavy support do their thing/melee. It works quite well since your models can shoot, thus be effective the turn they arrive.

Thanks, I had not been sure if they had any kind of anti-tank, I only knew flamers were infantry killers and horrors were ranged. I am happy that this is a viable army, as my previous options for a second army were very close to my first one, Guard. ( Tau or Space Marines) A Tzeentch army seems like it would be realy fun to play, and very different from Guard. I had previously thought I would have to use most of the gods to play demons, and was repeled because I hated most of the models of the other gods ( Slannesh and Nurgle).

Basically what he said. I have two units of Horrors (one with the Changeling), four Heralds on Disks, one Daemon Prince, and one unit of three Flamers. The Flamers themselves make decent anti-tank units (as BoC glances on a 4+) but I'm planning on getting at least one unit of Screamers. Meltabombs FTW.

And yeah, like he said, Tzeentch armies are super-speshul 'cause they can actually do things on the turn they DS in. Tzeentch Daemons are the only shooty Daemons.

Oh yea, it works. I remember the first time someone dropped flamers by my marines. Then he said they were all using breath of chaos. I had a sad face and dead dudes. Ignore cover and armor saves is pretty boss.

How is the Greater Demon of Tzeentch? he sounds pretty good from the tactica on GW's website

Show me one model GW doesn't say good things about and I'll show you a model that won't make it to the next codex.

Iur_tae_mont wrote:Show me one model GW doesn't say good things about and I'll show you a model that won't make it to the next codex.

Thats why I was asking, I know they do that, I think I have herd that Fateweaver sucks; and they tried to make him sound like the best thing since sliced bread in the tactica. I like the model of the Greater Demon of Tzeentch and would like to know if it is any good.

In general, a Lord of Change is considered the weakest of the Greater Daemons, as anything he can do, a Daemon Prince can generally do better and cheaper. HQs in a pure Tzeentch army seem to usually consist of 4 Heralds (often on chariots).

Thanks, I do not know much about demons (might use one of the models as a demon prince thou, like the bird look to him). I plan to pick up the codex next time I am at the FLGS.

6: SPACE WOLVES


Well, Saint Hazard picked another one. I like Space Wolves, which is obvious given that they're in this particular spot. They're a great army, one of the best competitively, with several good options and a few really great options-- far more than anything else in this list thus far. I also enjoy their fluff, the Vikings In Space feel is just awesome in a somewhat humorous way. Space Wolves are known for being gregarious and surprisingly humble, not viewing themselves as better than the average Guardsman. While other chapters might do this, more than any of them it is focused on with the Space Wolves fluff as something that is an intrinsic part of their chapter's culture, and it means that the Imperium at large tends to respect them. Any soldier who fights for the Imperium and gives their life in the name of the Emperor is equal to a Space Wolf even if they were a mere human, and therefor to be honored with a drink in their name. I guess Space Wolves drink a lot after big battles.

But sometimes it feels like it went a bit too far. Thunderwolf cavalry? Goddamnit GW, this isn't fantasy, this is science fiction! Okay okay, sure, in scifi there's always aliens riding aliens or somesuch, but this isn't as cool as that because they aren't aliens, they're just really big wolves. Which works in fantasy, but it does not work in science fiction. And all of the "wolf" equipment feels the same way. I really wish they'd focus more on the viking aspect than the werewolf aspect, because the viking aspect is the one that actually remotely interests me (hell, I wasn't even interested in werewolves back when I roleplayed in the various White Wolf games and settings).

Still, on the parts that didn't go too far, they did a good job capturing the feel of the army while keeping most of the options to be pretty cool and useful. The Sagas are how I kinda wish the original SM codex did things instead of using special characters, but that's an entirely different subject (that I will cover when I get to that). Some things feel like they're too cheap for what you get-- Grey Hunters for instance-- but it's not so much that the force is unbeatable by most codices given a properly built army.

So yeah. Go Wolves. They're the Marine army I'd be tempted to start after Grey Knights.

Hell yeah. That's two I've gotten right so far.

I happen to agree on most of the points, but the mere fact that they've gone from Viking to Werewolf with little to no justification, plus the sheer stupidity of TWC, plus the ridiculous naming conventions (Wolf Wolfborn riding a Thunderwolf, wearing a Wolf Tooth Necklace, wielding the Wolf Claw) put them much lower on my own list.

Anyway, Melissia's going to break her normal convention of "no two Space Marine codices in a row" now, and Codex: Space Marines is next.

There wasn't really ever a convention... it's just how it ended up.

Alright, let me be more accurate.

Melissia's going to break her subconscious convention.

Space Wolves are the army that I consider starting after I work on my Eldar a little more. Their fluff is cool with all their noble warrior-heroes and the like. I especially loved the part where they battled the Inquisition because the latter had the audacity to suspect them for heresy. And after a while, the Inquisition turned tail and ran away and wrote official reports how they found no sign of corruption on Fenris.

And the way they celebrate their Imperial Guard allies is spot on. They're the valiant vanguard of Mankind, simply because they don't try to be heroes, they simply. Are.

Melissia wrote:6: SPACE WOLVES


Well, Saint Hazard picked another one. I like Space Wolves, which is obvious given that they're in this particular spot. They're a great army, one of the best competitively, with several good options and a few really great options-- far more than anything else in this list thus far. I also enjoy their fluff, the Vikings In Space feel is just awesome in a somewhat humorous way. Space Wolves are known for being gregarious and surprisingly humble, not viewing themselves as better than the average Guardsman. While other chapters might do this, more than any of them it is focused on with the Space Wolves fluff as something that is an intrinsic part of their chapter's culture, and it means that the Imperium at large tends to respect them. Any soldier who fights for the Imperium and gives their life in the name of the Emperor is equal to a Space Wolf even if they were a mere human, and therefor to be honored with a drink in their name. I guess Space Wolves drink a lot after big battles.

But sometimes it feels like it went a bit too far. Thunderwolf cavalry? Goddamnit GW, this isn't fantasy, this is science fiction! Okay okay, sure, in scifi there's always aliens riding aliens or somesuch, but this isn't as cool as that because they aren't aliens, they're just really big wolves. Which works in fantasy, but it does not work in science fiction. And all of the "wolf" equipment feels the same way. I really wish they'd focus more on the viking aspect than the werewolf aspect, because the viking aspect is the one that actually remotely interests me (hell, I wasn't even interested in werewolves back when I roleplayed in the various White Wolf games and settings).

Still, on the parts that didn't go too far, they did a good job capturing the feel of the army while keeping most of the options to be pretty cool and useful. The Sagas are how I kinda wish the original SM codex did things instead of using special characters, but that's an entirely different subject (that I will cover when I get to that). Some things feel like they're too cheap for what you get-- Grey Hunters for instance-- but it's not so much that the force is unbeatable by most codices given a properly built army.

So yeah. Go Wolves. They're the Marine army I'd be tempted to start after Grey Knights.

Why does it look chaos demons?

Because I forgot to change the picture, duh?

Melissia wrote:6: SPACE WOLVES


Well, Saint Hazard picked another one. I like Space Wolves, which is obvious given that they're in this particular spot. They're a great army, one of the best competitively, with several good options and a few really great options-- far more than anything else in this list thus far. I also enjoy their fluff, the Vikings In Space feel is just awesome in a somewhat humorous way. Space Wolves are known for being gregarious and surprisingly humble, not viewing themselves as better than the average Guardsman. While other chapters might do this, more than any of them it is focused on with the Space Wolves fluff as something that is an intrinsic part of their chapter's culture, and it means that the Imperium at large tends to respect them. Any soldier who fights for the Imperium and gives their life in the name of the Emperor is equal to a Space Wolf even if they were a mere human, and therefor to be honored with a drink in their name. I guess Space Wolves drink a lot after big battles.

But sometimes it feels like it went a bit too far. Thunderwolf cavalry? Goddamnit GW, this isn't fantasy, this is science fiction! Okay okay, sure, in scifi there's always aliens riding aliens or somesuch, but this isn't as cool as that because they aren't aliens, they're just really big wolves. Which works in fantasy, but it does not work in science fiction. And all of the "wolf" equipment feels the same way. I really wish they'd focus more on the viking aspect than the werewolf aspect, because the viking aspect is the one that actually remotely interests me (hell, I wasn't even interested in werewolves back when I roleplayed in the various White Wolf games and settings).

Still, on the parts that didn't go too far, they did a good job capturing the feel of the army while keeping most of the options to be pretty cool and useful. The Sagas are how I kinda wish the original SM codex did things instead of using special characters, but that's an entirely different subject (that I will cover when I get to that). Some things feel like they're too cheap for what you get-- Grey Hunters for instance-- but it's not so much that the force is unbeatable by most codices given a properly built army.

So yeah. Go Wolves. They're the Marine army I'd be tempted to start after Grey Knights.

SW are the only Space Marine army I'll play. I only started one after this codex came out because I wanted to make sure the army played well. This codex solidified my desire to finally play an Imperial army. All of the units have flavor and perform well as long as you don't ask them to do something they shouldn't be doing. There may be a few pointing issues here and there, but I think when you look at the book as a whole, its all pretty well internally balanced.

Personally, I rather dig the whole TWC idea. It makes just as much sense to me as something like Blood Crushers, Rough Riders, or Kroot-ox riders. Biological mounts really have no place in a Sci-fi setting with lasers and 100 tons of grinding metal. But since GW has that presidence and has had it for such a long time it really doesn't seem so out of place right now. My biggest hang-up with them is the models. No one has produced a model yet that looks like what they should. Where are the armor plates to keep the 3+ armor save. Where are the hydrolics and cyber implants to show structure strengthing so the beast can support the weight of a SM. I think this is why I'm going to convert mine from Juggernaughts. They have the armor, they have the size. Its just going to require a lot of green stuff to make it look wolf under that armor.

It also helps that the codex cover is one of the more badass covers that GW has put out in a long time. You can just feel the intensity of the Wolf Lord on the cover as he has taken a personal interest in gutting what ever it is he is closing on. The fluff was fun to read and is actually fair. Hell there is even a few stories where the Wolves lost an engagement. I agree with the above poster when he states that SW consider it an honor to fight along side anyone fighting for the Empire. Not the other way around like it would be for most other space marines.

I wonder how you feel about the bit in the SW dex where the Ecclesiarchy went to investigate their fool asses and the SW opened fire. Then the ecclesiarchy basically let it slide and left. I think this is one of the most annoying pieces of fluff ever because while the SW are sticking to their lame "stick it to the man" crap, they are messing with the fluff of other groups.

The Ecclesiarchy stories make them out to be the Spanish Inquisition on steroids, they should have glassed Fenris and declared the entire chapter heretics. This is as bad as the SM codex stating everyone wants to be an Ultramarine.

I don't like when a codex interefers with the background of other factions. Any thoughts?

I loved it. Basically, Space Wolves said "Don't stick your noses where they don't belong" and the Ecclesiarchy picked up on the clue and left. They could hardly just declare a holy crusade against one of the most popular chapters in the Imperium. But you can bet they didn't forget or forgive the Wolves for this.

asimo77 wrote:I wonder how you feel about the bit in the SW dex where the Ecclesiarchy went to investigate their fool asses and the SW opened fire. Then the ecclesiarchy basically let it slide and left. I think this is one of the most annoying pieces of fluff ever because while the SW are sticking to their lame "stick it to the man" crap, they are messing with the fluff of other groups.

The Ecclesiarchy stories make them out to be the Spanish Inquisition on steroids, they should have glassed Fenris and declared the entire chapter heretics. This is as bad as the SM codex stating everyone wants to be an Ultramarine.

I don't like when a codex interefers with the background of other factions. Any thoughts?

They didn't just let it slide. They sent three orders of sisters into Frensian space and tried to take the Fang by force. Its a marvel that they held out for three weeks against one of the most fortified planets in the Imperium.

Fenris and in part the Fang always has been one of the top two most defensible positions in existence.

I just don't see it as the Ecclesirchy letting it be, they got their ass whipped and recognized a loosing position, then did the smart thing and withdrew.

Araenion wrote:I loved it. Basically, Space Wolves said "Don't stick your noses where they don't belong" and the Ecclesiarchy picked up on the clue and left. They could hardly just declare a holy crusade against one of the most popular chapters in the Imperium. But you can bet they didn't forget or forgive the Wolves for this.

Everyone loves the wolves!
They get drunk and act like Vikings + Americans + Werewolves = Space Wolves?

Well from the stuff I've read the Ecclesiarchy seem a little more stubborn than just leaving after 3 weeks. Just consider the concept of exterminatus, they love overreacting.

Vikings + Frat Boys=Fail

Their only redeeming factor is that they treat other IoM soldiers/citizens well, but if I'm not mistaken Salamanders and Ravenguard already do that without sucking.

Asherian Command wrote:

Araenion wrote:I loved it. Basically, Space Wolves said "Don't stick your noses where they don't belong" and the Ecclesiarchy picked up on the clue and left. They could hardly just declare a holy crusade against one of the most popular chapters in the Imperium. But you can bet they didn't forget or forgive the Wolves for this.

Everyone loves the wolves!
They get drunk and act like Vikings + Americans + Werewolves = Space Wolves?

I think most people like the idea behind the SW, if not entirely the execution. They are the rebels of the SM. They act by their own rules, they fight how they want, and they still get to be the good guys that you can root for.

Some may not like the whole viking in space, some may not like the silly equipment naming, some may not like the fluff. But the idea of the rogue, follows his own rules, good guy is hard to dislike, I think thats why SW have always maintained their fan base and popularity.

I've always thought they were the anti-thesis of the stereotypical greasy neck beard that plays 40k, i.e. the frat guy. They drink all the time, are "down with the man", get into brawls, are popular, even that Lukas guy has numerous sexual liasons with women. Why this is appealing I don't know, both archetypes are terrible and shallow.

I´m about to buy an entire SW force, and I´m not very fond of most marine chapters, but theyre just -as someone stated before- the only imperial force that I could ever play without feeling filthy.

Asherian Command wrote:
Everyone loves the wolves!
They get drunk and act like Vikings + Americans + Werewolves = Space Wolves?

You mad? Quite the opposite, actually.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

asimo77 wrote:I've always thought they were the anti-thesis of the stereotypical greasy neck beard that plays 40k, i.e. the frat guy. They drink all the time, are "down with the man", get into brawls, are popular, even that Lukas guy has numerous sexual liasons with women. Why this is appealing I don't know, both archetypes are terrible and shallow.

Yeah, why someone would want to be an alpha macho who get all the wimmin in the fictional world ? what a nonsense.

More like boorish, inbred, womanizing idiots. Attacking 1ksons for no reason anyone? Actually its funny I mention that because the 1ksons kinda reminded me of the nerd empowered fantasy, and the fact that the SW are their nemisis is kinda fitting given their d-bag, broski persona.

asimo77 wrote:More like boorish, inbred, womanizing idiots. Attacking 1ksons for no reason anyone? Actually its funny I mention that because the 1ksons kinda reminded me of the nerd empowered fantasy, and the fact that the SW are their nemisis is kinda fitting given their d-bag, broski persona.

Oof major fluff failure here.

Didn't they go after Prospero without orders or something? I mean you could you know try to educate me instead of being a jerk.

Free me from my ignorance oh great one.

I like the "Wolf of the Wofling Wolf Wolf" stuff to a certian excent actually. It sort of reminds me of those old "Power Thirst" videos, just with wolves, in space. Which is reall the kind of thing I lilke about space marines as a whole.

Ok it seems to be that Horus tricked Russ or something, but they are still nemises (sp?) are they not?

(1) SW have the reputation of being quite empathetic to mortals, as Melissa noted, not "boorish womanizers" or "d-bag broskis."

(2) Convinced that he rather than the Emperor was in the right concerning sorcery, Magnus broke the Emperor's direct command at Nikaea to send psychic warning of Horus's impending treachery from Prospero. This sorcery wrecked a rather important experiment the Emprah was running at the time involving the Webway, allowing daemons to invade the Palace. Old fluff (Index Astartes) has that the Emprah ordered Russ (who was standing right beside him) to go kill Magnus. New fluff apparently has Big E telling Horus to tell Russ to capture Magnus and bring him bound to Terra but Horus instead tells Russ that the Emperor wanted Magnus dead.