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I think Melisia is realizing these lists are more work than they appear to be.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:I think Melisia is realizing these lists are more work than they appear to be.

Indeed, but I have faith and await an update patiently

Oh please, I've already done projects which require much more work than this one, and they're nearing completion.

It's just midterms now.

Melissia wrote:Oh please, I've already done projects which require much more work than this one,

ya, but they were probably important...

Messed up your quotes there, huh?

I'm workin' on the next one. I was hoping Saint would make another prediction

Melissia wrote:Messed up your quotes there, huh?

D'oh!

Melissia wrote:I'm workin' on the next one. I was hoping Saint would make another prediction

He did have. He predicted Eldar, in fact.

Oh right. I forgot about that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
7: Chaos Daemons


Chaos Daemons, the only reason why I might consider playing a Chaos army right now. A pity that despite the cool fluff and interesting rules, the reason why I'm turned off of the army is because of the models.

The mythological feel of the codex really gives the four gods personality, and their minions as well in turn. The corrupting nature of Chaos in the fluff books-- especially the Dark Heresy roleplay books-- is very well done, and though I am saddened by the fact that there is no Lost and the Damned army (I'm not starting a Chaos army where I have to buy even one single Chaos Space Marine, for reasons stated in that army's review), Chaos Daemons themselves are certainly a very interesting and very dangerous foe, without going overboard. They're highly dangerous, yet they're also very unstable, simply existing in this world damages Daemons and so with rare exceptions they can only manifest for short whirlwind battles and infestations. But oh damn, when those specific conditions are met and they CAN take a long-term stay on a world? They turn that world into a living hell the likes of which the human mind cannot properly comprehend, and it takes the powers of the Grey Knights and Imperial Inquisition in order to fight them off. Even then, sometimes it's judged to be better to simply quarantine such worlds until the sorcery wears off, instead of attempt to cleanse them.

Their rules pretty much represent this. Tabletop 40k battles are short, brutal affairs, and with Daemons this is no different. They manifest onto the battlefield in your face, and quickly move to tear it off in the remorseless manner of the daemons of myth and nightmare. While limited in much the same way as the Ork army is as far as anti-tank goes, they certainly aren't as incapable of handling mechanized armies as many people think-- they just require more coordination than many players are willing to put them through. But that's fine with me, not every army has to be nor should be simple and easy to play (as noted in my Dark Eldar rant). Daemons are tricky, but when mastered present a great deal of potential kickassery waiting to happen.

... and now, onto the models. Well, with a few exceptions, I don't really particularly like most of them. The horrors are just spaztastic in a very uninspiring way, and their form is really just too predictable for a Tzeentch daemon. The Daemonettes look like they belong in a Nurgle army rather than a Slaanesh army, a marked decrease in quality from the previous versions. Plaguebearers are okay, giving a proper Nurgle feel, yet they too feel so limiting. Nurglings are good, properly cute and disgusting at the same time, but their rules feel kinda mediocre and they seem to be rarely used. Bloodletters... well, I just wish their limbs were a bit more muscular, but other than that I'm okay with them. Of the HQ units, I like skulltaker the best (minus his overlong tongue), but most of them have potential.... just very specific problems. The detail on the teeth of the bloodthirster, the nonexistent "face" of the Great Unclean One, the peculiar staff position of the Lord of Change, the passive appearance of the Fateweaver, the "naked baby on a throne" look for Epidemius, the silly masked wand of the Masque, and so on. Much of the rest of hte units are the same way, but visually speaking I'd go with a Khorne army as their models ahve the most consistent visual appeal to me with the least amount of problems.

Still, as collecting and painting is my least favorite aspect of the hobby anyway, that's not really enough to have Daemons pushed lower than this. Since it came out I've been tempted to collect the army, but money and the issues with the new range of models have prevented me from doing so. Perhaps a fifth edition set of models will be better. Perhaps not. Either way, I at least look forward to its codex.

Oooh, now entering the big league, eh!

I must admit I've been a lurker in this thread for a while now, an interesting read from the start.

I've yet to face Daemons on the tabletop, but I want to because they sound like they make any battle with them quite chaotic. Which means unexpected things happen, which means fun times!

And their fluff is interesting, if a bit cliche(then again, that's not necessarily a bad thing at all). I wouldn't want them prodding my mind for entry to the material cosmos, that's for certain.

I only recently started collecting a Daemon army, and I have to say, it's been hands down the most fun i've had since getting back into the hobby. It plays very different from almost every army out there, and makes for some very interesting games.

Far as the models go, there are some definite weaknesses, I'll agree (I'm looking at you, Daemonettes! also, lack of chariots...), but it does also enjoy a few truly awesome models. Soulgrinder, anyone?

KamikazeCanuck wrote:
That's the caveat that makes them tolerable. The are just weapons, not people. The reach that level of unstoppableness by giving up all vestiges of humanity. That's why I don't really want to read The Grey knights books. I'm sure it humanizes them, which IMO is wrong. A Grey Knight with a personality isn't doing a good job of being a Grey Knight.

The books actually do a good job of portraying the Grey Knights as inhuman weapons. Even Alaric, who was an exception, was very much indocrinated and was only able to do what he did because he was stripped of his psychic wards.

Terminus wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:
That's the caveat that makes them tolerable. The are just weapons, not people. The reach that level of unstoppableness by giving up all vestiges of humanity. That's why I don't really want to read The Grey knights books. I'm sure it humanizes them, which IMO is wrong. A Grey Knight with a personality isn't doing a good job of being a Grey Knight.

The books actually do a good job of portraying the Grey Knights as inhuman weapons. Even Alaric, who was an exception, was very much indocrinated and was only able to do what he did because he was stripped of his psychic wards.

Yeah the books do show them as unthinking weapons although Alaric does think about how to kill daemons so i guess that counts.

I dunno, I kinda like the models. To be fair, the scrawny Bloodletters are taller in general than other models, so the lack of muscle is kinda negated by that, I suppose. The Horrors pretty much look as I would expect them to, minus a few limbs and eyeballs, and I preferred the old Daemonettes, but I don't mind the new ones too much.
To be fair to the greater daemons, they've been around for a very long time now, and are showing their age. Perhaps someday we'll get an update on them.
Otherwise, yeah, I mostly agree with your thoughts. Mostly.

I think the worst model in the Daemon army (and probably up there for the whole of 40K) is the Fiend of Slaanesh.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1251479_99069915037_DaemonsSlaaneshFiendMain2_873x627.jpg

It's still better than this:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440304a&prodId=prod1110153

Melissia wrote:It's still better than this:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440304a&prodId=prod1110153

No, that model is a representation of what happens after Lucy accidentally kills Charlie Brown and turns to religion...


Edit: Though in hindsight, she looks more like Marcie. So maybe she finally had enough of Pepperment Patty's endless drivel and stupidity and finally knifed her in the back...

agnosto wrote:

Melissia wrote:It's still better than this:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440304a&prodId=prod1110153

No, that model is a representation of what happens after Lucy accidentally kills Charlie Brown and turns to religion...

LOL!

Melissia wrote:It's still better than this:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440304a&prodId=prod1110153

I'm never quite sure how to react to that model. Seriously. It's easily the weirdest thing GW has ever done, bar the (very ancient) Rambone model.

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:

Melissia wrote:It's still better than this:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440304a&prodId=prod1110153

I'm never quite sure how to react to that model. Seriously. It's easily the weirdest thing GW has ever done, bar the (very ancient) Rambone model.

Care to link to a pic of it for me?

It's near impossible to find a picture of it, nowadays. It's in the old Undead collector's guide, though; a skeleton wielding an M16 and wearing Rambo's costume. Odd thing to find in something dedicated to Fantasy.

I want it now

Melissia wrote:7: Chaos Daemons

(Im still here)

Spot on.

I started collecting start of year 2010 and Daemons where my first choice, however, like you said the 'look' turned me off. I chose Eldar.

I see the Deamon army more like a bunch of confused cartoon characters rather then a pack of soul devouring creatures of pure darkness. Although the fluff is good it could be redone so the armies of Darkness have more 'flow' to them. Fluff is old, old, old and could use some major updates which effect the new future models.

I really detest the new plastic Deamon Princes too. Some of the parts like heads and arms\hands are just "cheap" to me and could have been modeled much better.

Melissia wrote:It's still better than this:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440304a&prodId=prod1110153

Its Velma!

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:It's near impossible to find a picture of it, nowadays. It's in the old Undead collector's guide, though; a skeleton wielding an M16 and wearing Rambo's costume. Odd thing to find in something dedicated to Fantasy.

I've seen a purportedly GW wizard with a submachine gun before. Granted that was on Ebay, so I've no clue if it's really legit. Kind wish I'd bought it regardless, I love that kind of weird gak.

@Melissia- Interesting reads, these. Lookin forward to the rest.

Edit- Ah, here we go, found it. Guess I still could buy it. Although it's lacking all the writing on the tab, which makes me nervous. Eh.

@ Melissa: Great job! Enjoyed reading each and every one. Looking forward to rest.

Eldar are higher than Chaos Daemons.

Interesting.

Agree on most of your analysis of Chaos Daemons, with the exception of the models - I personally like the new Daemon Prince, as well as the new Seekers. I don't like the new Pink Horrors as much as the old ones, I do agree with you there... they've got too well-defined anatomy for creatures who constantly morph and twist and vomit out more creatures. In any case, some of the models look very nice in my opinion (Screamers, Flamers, and Soul Grinders among my favorites).

I WILL say that Daemons are my third primary army (after Orks and Tau) for a reason - they're freakin' fun as hell to play. I play a pure Tzeentch Daemon force, and it's growing weekly.

Edit: Oh, and Space Wolves are next.

I would play a pure Slaanesh/Khorne army only because the sweetness of the models. Too bad they consist in just 3 types of unit.

To play a true varied army you have to field demons of every Chaos god, but the idea of mixing gods armies is ludicrous for me, no matter how much GW try to convince me that its completely normal and happens everyday.

I'm with ya on the demons melissia, except for one thing regrading the models.

I just don't see anything, besides the horrors and all the khorne models, as actual demons. If I ever made a demon army, it would khorne flakes like I owned the label.

I see the nurgle stuff as zombies and undead, not demons. I see the slanessh stuff as... kinda demonish, but would rather not have kids going *ooo boobies*, tzneech is another story, but as it stands he is still out.

like this thread, have to agree with you so far, keep it up!

Oh, and also:

SaintHazard wrote:Eldar are higher than Chaos Daemons.

Interesting.

Agree on most of your analysis of Chaos Daemons, with the exception of the models - I personally like the new Daemon Prince, as well as the new Seekers. I don't like the new Pink Horrors as much as the old ones, I do agree with you there... they've got too well-defined anatomy for creatures who constantly morph and twist and vomit out more creatures. In any case, some of the models look very nice in my opinion (Screamers, Flamers, and Soul Grinders among my favorites).

I WILL say that Daemons are my third primary army (after Orks and Tau) for a reason - they're freakin' fun as hell to play. I play a pure Tzeentch Daemon force, and it's growing weekly.

Edit: Oh, and Space Wolves are next.

I was just wondering how exactly you play a pure Tzeentch army, I have not herd of it before? I would start a demon army if I could do a mono-Tzeentch army, because he is my favorite Chaos god and I like the units from what I have herd of them, but I do not realy like the other gods all that much ( I would only think of including small amount of Khorne, for killyness ). It would be fun to play a demon army, as it is very different from the army I play now.

General Seric wrote:

I was just wondering how exactly you play a pure Tzeentch army

You should start off with a batch or two of flamers of tzeentch, they are most excellent in killing infantry of all kinds plus can down a vehicle or two on a good day.
Then of course horrors, with their excellent ranged attack against infantry and the ability to take the bolt of t.
Then, some screamers of course, since they kill vehicles dead.
Toss in a demon prince or two and 2-4 hq of your choice and roll with it. Most suggest focusing your infantry on shooting while your hq and heavy support do their thing/melee. It works quite well since your models can shoot, thus be effective the turn they arrive.