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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Yeah, the Caladius probably needs to go down to around 200 points to be competitive with the Telemon, maybe even 190.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Thing is, I think a tank can survive long enough to earn it's points and more, whereas the Telemon has a giant flashing neon sign that says "PRIORITY THREAT HERE"

I'm not the best with Telemons, mine always get shot off the table rather quickly. No one ever bothers with my tank though.


That seems like really weird decision-making by your opponent, the tank is far easier to remove and has the same shooting output, it would make way more sense to remove the tank than the Telemon. And honestly, there's basically nothing you don't want shooting the Telemon as opposed to literally anything else in your army. If it's soaking up fire, it's doing it's job, short of maybe stuff like letting it get ambushed by multiple squads of retributors. The biggest threat to a dual-gun Telemon is just getting tied up in combat with something it doesn't want to shoot at.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/10 16:29:20


 
   
Made in gb
Mighty Brass Scorpion of Khorne





Why Aye Ya Canny Dakkanaughts!

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Thing is, I think a tank can survive long enough to earn it's points and more, whereas the Telemon has a giant flashing neon sign that says "PRIORITY THREAT HERE"

I'm not the best with Telemons, mine always get shot off the table rather quickly. No one ever bothers with my tank though.

Time spent shooting your Telemon is time not spent shooting bikes, I'd take that deal any day.

Ghorros wrote:
The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
 Marmatag wrote:
All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so f***ing what." - Stephen Fry
 
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




Right, but very often, my Telemon is the only thing that can legitimately threaten the things shooting it in the first place (T8 14+W) I just hate spending 300 points on it and watching it eat dirt on the 2nd turn.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






I love the telemon, but its so darn slow that most opponents can just outmanuver it.

You really need to have a plan with it for it to be useful.

The tanks however, are just so much easier to use. Their mobility makes them easier to hide turn 1 and still contribute to the game. They do go down pretty easy to Multi-melta's and dark lances though.



My main reason for using them is just for more damage output. I focused on defence with the shadowkeepers list and that works fine, but doesnt have enough output for the current meta. I dont know if its a good idea, but I figure its worth a try.

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 Eihnlazer wrote:
I love the telemon, but its so darn slow that most opponents can just outmanuver it.

You really need to have a plan with it for it to be useful.

The tanks however, are just so much easier to use. Their mobility makes them easier to hide turn 1 and still contribute to the game. They do go down pretty easy to Multi-melta's and dark lances though.



My main reason for using them is just for more damage output. I focused on defence with the shadowkeepers list and that works fine, but doesnt have enough output for the current meta. I dont know if its a good idea, but I figure its worth a try.


Is deepstriking a telemon still a thing people do successfully in a competitive setting? Or is starting it on the board and slogging it towards the midfield the thing to do if you were to bring a telemon.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Its offensive power isn't all that high compared to its defense so it's not great for DS IMO, best role is to start on the table but hidden then march it up the table, preferably while exposing it to just enough of your opponent's army that he is tempted into shooting it, but not enough that he can actually destroy or seriously degrade it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/11 00:45:02


 
   
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Dakka Veteran




yukishiro1 wrote:
Its offensive power isn't all that high compared to its defense so it's not great for DS IMO, best role is to start on the table but hidden then march it up the table, preferably while exposing it to just enough of your opponent's army that he is tempted into shooting it, but not enough that he can actually destroy or seriously degrade it.


I don't claim to be very knowledgeable in these things, but the telemons dmg output in melee is second only to the achillus, is it not? With one fist and eternal penitent, that's 6 attacks at S: a bazillion and flat 4 dmg. When you add the shooting weapons into that equation, it at least seems very potent.
Isnt the bigger problem getting it past deepstrike screens? If you were to play it that way. Teleport Homer is a thing that can bypass screens, but it's a very telegraphed trick and to me at least it seems like nobody is bringing a vexillus anymore.
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight




Tiberias wrote:
yukishiro1 wrote:
Its offensive power isn't all that high compared to its defense so it's not great for DS IMO, best role is to start on the table but hidden then march it up the table, preferably while exposing it to just enough of your opponent's army that he is tempted into shooting it, but not enough that he can actually destroy or seriously degrade it.


I don't claim to be very knowledgeable in these things, but the telemons dmg output in melee is second only to the achillus, is it not? With one fist and eternal penitent, that's 6 attacks at S: a bazillion and flat 4 dmg. When you add the shooting weapons into that equation, it at least seems very potent.
Isnt the bigger problem getting it past deepstrike screens? If you were to play it that way. Teleport Homer is a thing that can bypass screens, but it's a very telegraphed trick and to me at least it seems like nobody is bringing a vexillus anymore.


Compared to the rest of the army the offensive power is high, but it's overall offensive power in the context of the game is low. So yeah, if you want Custodes damage melee+gun is a good damage mix. We're just a low damage army in general though.
   
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Dakka Veteran




Audustum wrote:
Tiberias wrote:
yukishiro1 wrote:
Its offensive power isn't all that high compared to its defense so it's not great for DS IMO, best role is to start on the table but hidden then march it up the table, preferably while exposing it to just enough of your opponent's army that he is tempted into shooting it, but not enough that he can actually destroy or seriously degrade it.


I don't claim to be very knowledgeable in these things, but the telemons dmg output in melee is second only to the achillus, is it not? With one fist and eternal penitent, that's 6 attacks at S: a bazillion and flat 4 dmg. When you add the shooting weapons into that equation, it at least seems very potent.
Isnt the bigger problem getting it past deepstrike screens? If you were to play it that way. Teleport Homer is a thing that can bypass screens, but it's a very telegraphed trick and to me at least it seems like nobody is bringing a vexillus anymore.


Compared to the rest of the army the offensive power is high, but it's overall offensive power in the context of the game is low. So yeah, if you want Custodes damage melee+gun is a good damage mix. We're just a low damage army in general though.


Says something about the state of the game doesn't it? We've apparently entered an age of powercreep where the DMG output of even someting like the mighty telemon just seems OK compared to the rest of the game. At least he's still built like a brick gak-house....how many dark lances does it take to reliably kill a telemon? I'm sure someone has already done the math on that.

Edit: another thing I'm really curious about: with the prevalence of really strong anti tank weapons like dark lances, are we going to see a comeback of the vexillus praetor with vexilla magnifica? Against these low volume, high quality weapons, the -1 to hit seems to be valuable again.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/05/11 12:57:21


 
   
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what do you think of this?
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/05/10/this-high-lord-of-terra-prefers-the-battlefield-to-the-boardroom/?fbclid=IwAR1dmBLUw7NH1QBntOCYWdng-uf6ZsJhffas9WwXNh87zsk4HeSOy2oNmf4

I hope we get some of those abilities, holy Aegis would be great.
   
Made in gb
Mighty Brass Scorpion of Khorne





Why Aye Ya Canny Dakkanaughts!

Tiberias wrote:
Says something about the state of the game doesn't it? We've apparently entered an age of powercreep where the DMG output of even someting like the mighty telemon just seems OK compared to the rest of the game. At least he's still built like a brick gak-house....how many dark lances does it take to reliably kill a telemon? I'm sure someone has already done the math on that.

Edit: another thing I'm really curious about: with the prevalence of really strong anti tank weapons like dark lances, are we going to see a comeback of the vexillus praetor with vexilla magnifica? Against these low volume, high quality weapons, the -1 to hit seems to be valuable again.

25 dark lances to take down the Telemon on his own, 34 dark lances if he has -1 to hit, 50 dark lances if he also has the -1 strength strat.

Also, as someone who has played and beaten the new Dark Elder (3000pts game though), I can say -1 to hit really shut down all his heavy ranged firepower. But he did wiff a hell of a lot that game: I killed 5 incubai in overwatch with a grav tank, his Archaon and Drazar failed point blank charges, his bombers did hardly any damage at all with their mortal wound bombs and as I said his ranged anti-tank mostly wiffed. Though at the same time I didn't kill any of his backline stuff, took 3 turns to kill his bombers, my achilles didn't hit at all with his ranged shots and my super up bike captain got insta-popped by his succubus.

Ghorros wrote:
The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
 Marmatag wrote:
All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so f***ing what." - Stephen Fry
 
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight




Tiberias wrote:
Audustum wrote:
Tiberias wrote:
yukishiro1 wrote:
Its offensive power isn't all that high compared to its defense so it's not great for DS IMO, best role is to start on the table but hidden then march it up the table, preferably while exposing it to just enough of your opponent's army that he is tempted into shooting it, but not enough that he can actually destroy or seriously degrade it.


I don't claim to be very knowledgeable in these things, but the telemons dmg output in melee is second only to the achillus, is it not? With one fist and eternal penitent, that's 6 attacks at S: a bazillion and flat 4 dmg. When you add the shooting weapons into that equation, it at least seems very potent.
Isnt the bigger problem getting it past deepstrike screens? If you were to play it that way. Teleport Homer is a thing that can bypass screens, but it's a very telegraphed trick and to me at least it seems like nobody is bringing a vexillus anymore.


Compared to the rest of the army the offensive power is high, but it's overall offensive power in the context of the game is low. So yeah, if you want Custodes damage melee+gun is a good damage mix. We're just a low damage army in general though.


Says something about the state of the game doesn't it? We've apparently entered an age of powercreep where the DMG output of even someting like the mighty telemon just seems OK compared to the rest of the game. At least he's still built like a brick gak-house....how many dark lances does it take to reliably kill a telemon? I'm sure someone has already done the math on that.

Edit: another thing I'm really curious about: with the prevalence of really strong anti tank weapons like dark lances, are we going to see a comeback of the vexillus praetor with vexilla magnifica? Against these low volume, high quality weapons, the -1 to hit seems to be valuable again.


The -1 to Hit is nice but most competitive Raiders are run as Black Heart, which gets a free re-roll to Hit per unit once per turn. So each Raider gets to re-roll its shot. Against a normal Telemon, it takes 22 Black Heart Dark Lances (most competitive lists only bring 6 Raiders) to kill a Telemon. With the Magnifica it's 26. So he's in pretty good shape.

And yeah, it says a lot that the Telemon's damage is just 'O.K.'. The main problem is the low number of attacks. Big stuff can survive the 1-3 wounds he's going to get through and littler stuff is getting extra rules like Transhuman to just ruin his statistical average. The DEldar Succubus of Crazy Interactions gets 14 + 2 for every attack that doesn't make it to the 'inflict damage' step. Even a Tryptych Whip Succubus is usually packing 10. An Incubi Sergeant, just the Sergeant, gets the same as the Telemon (6) at a respectable profile (S4 AP-2 2 damage). A Smash Chaplain gets 6-9 attacks (depending on Chapter) with re-rolling all hits, +1 to Wound, S6, flat damage 4 and MW's on 6's to Wound.
   
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Does anyone see us getting the T7 nerf to our Dreadnaughts that most of the SMs got? I think GW wants us to focus less on giant single model units, and more on tactical level play. Infantry and transports.

I would not be surprised to see Telemons get a nerf, and our Custodian Guard to get a rather significant buff, while them trying to make our LRs somewhat viable.
   
Made in gb
Mighty Brass Scorpion of Khorne





Why Aye Ya Canny Dakkanaughts!

Audustum wrote:
The -1 to Hit is nice but most competitive Raiders are run as Black Heart, which gets a free re-roll to Hit per unit once per turn. So each Raider gets to re-roll its shot. Against a normal Telemon, it takes 22 Black Heart Dark Lances (most competitive lists only bring 6 Raiders) to kill a Telemon. With the Magnifica it's 26. So he's in pretty good shape.

I get 19 and 22 not 22 and 26 with re-rolls to hit.

Ghorros wrote:
The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
 Marmatag wrote:
All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so f***ing what." - Stephen Fry
 
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight




 mrhappyface wrote:
Audustum wrote:
The -1 to Hit is nice but most competitive Raiders are run as Black Heart, which gets a free re-roll to Hit per unit once per turn. So each Raider gets to re-roll its shot. Against a normal Telemon, it takes 22 Black Heart Dark Lances (most competitive lists only bring 6 Raiders) to kill a Telemon. With the Magnifica it's 26. So he's in pretty good shape.

I get 19 and 22 not 22 and 26 with re-rolls to hit.


I'm just feeding it into here:

http://mathhammer.thefieldsofblood.com/

I get something like your numbers if I put the Dark Lance at S9 but it's S8 (actually one lower than a lascannon).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/11 16:16:17


 
   
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Dakka Veteran




So with shadowkeepers the telemon is still a very respectable anvil, even better with the magnifica. That doesn't sound too bad.

So is there a case to be made for a full melee telemon with all the support he can get? I'm talking a vexillus with imperius banner for +1 attack and a dread host captain with all seeing annihilatior. That's 8 attacks with exploding 6s on very high quality attacks. With Trajann rerolls that should threaten almost every interesting target for the telemon. Is it too much of a one trick pony?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




No, there's not much use for all those high quality attacks IMO, and it will never be points efficient even if you could wail on a prime target every game, which you will very rarely be able to do. It's too easy to tarpit and outmaneuver. I'm honestly not even a big fan of giving it a fist, I think it's better with two cannons. There's plenty of other stuff in the codex that can dig it out of melee if you need that, and the fist doesn't actually help it do that because the issue with the Telemon being tagged is its low number of attacks, not the quality of those attacks, and the fist doesn't help enough with that to change the equation.

What the Telemon has that nothing else in the codex has is durability and ranged threat, I think it makes more sense to go in on that than to try to turn it into a melee powerhouse that it just isn't. One fist is definitely defensible depending on the rest of your army, but I wouldn't go above that.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/11 17:38:58


 
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight




Tiberias wrote:
So with shadowkeepers the telemon is still a very respectable anvil, even better with the magnifica. That doesn't sound too bad.

So is there a case to be made for a full melee telemon with all the support he can get? I'm talking a vexillus with imperius banner for +1 attack and a dread host captain with all seeing annihilatior. That's 8 attacks with exploding 6s on very high quality attacks. With Trajann rerolls that should threaten almost every interesting target for the telemon. Is it too much of a one trick pony?


So Siegler usually runs them melee + gun. I imagine so that they can hit back against another quality attacker (rather than a horde tarpit). I think the primary reason to take them is for their (relatively) safe 15 points of WWSWF rather than any actual offensive output.
   
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Dakka Veteran




yukishiro1 wrote:No, there's not much use for all those high quality attacks IMO, and it will never be points efficient even if you could wail on a prime target every game, which you will very rarely be able to do. It's too easy to tarpit and outmaneuver. I'm honestly not even a big fan of giving it a fist, I think it's better with two cannons. There's plenty of other stuff in the codex that can dig it out of melee if you need that, and the fist doesn't actually help it do that because the issue with the Telemon being tagged is its low number of attacks, not the quality of those attacks, and the fist doesn't help enough with that to change the equation.

What the Telemon has that nothing else in the codex has is durability and ranged threat, I think it makes more sense to go in on that than to try to turn it into a melee powerhouse that it just isn't. One fist is definitely defensible depending on the rest of your army, but I wouldn't go above that.


Audustum wrote:
Tiberias wrote:
So with shadowkeepers the telemon is still a very respectable anvil, even better with the magnifica. That doesn't sound too bad.

So is there a case to be made for a full melee telemon with all the support he can get? I'm talking a vexillus with imperius banner for +1 attack and a dread host captain with all seeing annihilatior. That's 8 attacks with exploding 6s on very high quality attacks. With Trajann rerolls that should threaten almost every interesting target for the telemon. Is it too much of a one trick pony?


So Siegler usually runs them melee + gun. I imagine so that they can hit back against another quality attacker (rather than a horde tarpit). I think the primary reason to take them is for their (relatively) safe 15 points of WWSWF rather than any actual offensive output.



Fair enough, I stand corrected

Was kind of a crackpot theory anyway.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




The double telemon list is definitely about having the option for a reliable 15 WWSWF. If you only take one, it's probably because you're not so committed to that strategy. But either way, the reason to take one is to have something that isn't going to die unless you want it to that can anchor an area of the board, so you don't want to build it in a way that it has to go to where your opponent wants it to go, which a melee version has to do. One fist just to deter them from tying it up with stuff like transports can definitely make sense, but that's more to defend itself than to attack with.
   
Made in gb
Mighty Brass Scorpion of Khorne





Why Aye Ya Canny Dakkanaughts!

Audustum wrote:
 mrhappyface wrote:
Audustum wrote:
The -1 to Hit is nice but most competitive Raiders are run as Black Heart, which gets a free re-roll to Hit per unit once per turn. So each Raider gets to re-roll its shot. Against a normal Telemon, it takes 22 Black Heart Dark Lances (most competitive lists only bring 6 Raiders) to kill a Telemon. With the Magnifica it's 26. So he's in pretty good shape.

I get 19 and 22 not 22 and 26 with re-rolls to hit.


I'm just feeding it into here:

http://mathhammer.thefieldsofblood.com/

I get something like your numbers if I put the Dark Lance at S9 but it's S8 (actually one lower than a lascannon).

Ah I think I see the problem, because each raider gets 1 re-roll and each dark lance is on a different raider you should treat the Dark Lances as re-rolling all hit rolls. I assume what you've done is enter "re-roll 1s" on this website.

Ghorros wrote:
The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
 Marmatag wrote:
All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so f***ing what." - Stephen Fry
 
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight




 mrhappyface wrote:
Audustum wrote:
 mrhappyface wrote:
Audustum wrote:
The -1 to Hit is nice but most competitive Raiders are run as Black Heart, which gets a free re-roll to Hit per unit once per turn. So each Raider gets to re-roll its shot. Against a normal Telemon, it takes 22 Black Heart Dark Lances (most competitive lists only bring 6 Raiders) to kill a Telemon. With the Magnifica it's 26. So he's in pretty good shape.

I get 19 and 22 not 22 and 26 with re-rolls to hit.


I'm just feeding it into here:

http://mathhammer.thefieldsofblood.com/

I get something like your numbers if I put the Dark Lance at S9 but it's S8 (actually one lower than a lascannon).

Ah I think I see the problem, because each raider gets 1 re-roll and each dark lance is on a different raider you should treat the Dark Lances as re-rolling all hit rolls. I assume what you've done is enter "re-roll 1s" on this website.


Huh, no, I entered re-roll all hits on the site.
   
Made in gb
Mighty Brass Scorpion of Khorne





Why Aye Ya Canny Dakkanaughts!

Audustum wrote:
Huh, no, I entered re-roll all hits on the site.

Got a screenshot of what you put in?

Ghorros wrote:
The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
 Marmatag wrote:
All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so f***ing what." - Stephen Fry
 
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight




 mrhappyface wrote:
Audustum wrote:
Huh, no, I entered re-roll all hits on the site.

Got a screenshot of what you put in?


I do but I'm not really familiar with image hosting sites. I'm putting in 3+ to Hit with a -1 Modifier (Magnifica), re-roll all, 26 shots, S8 vs. T8, 2+ armor, AP-4, 4++ invuln, 6+++. What are you putting in?
   
Made in gb
Mighty Brass Scorpion of Khorne





Why Aye Ya Canny Dakkanaughts!

Audustum wrote:
 mrhappyface wrote:
Audustum wrote:
Huh, no, I entered re-roll all hits on the site.

Got a screenshot of what you put in?


I do but I'm not really familiar with image hosting sites. I'm putting in 3+ to Hit with a -1 Modifier (Magnifica), re-roll all, 26 shots, S8 vs. T8, 2+ armor, AP-4, 4++ invuln, 6+++. What are you putting in?

I was meaning what did you put in without modifiers.

Though I've checked my maths for the modified result, it would seem this website doesn't allow you to re-roll 3s if you're BS3+ with a -1 to hit. Is this still how you resolve shooting? I thought that was only a thing last edition?

Ghorros wrote:
The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
 Marmatag wrote:
All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so f***ing what." - Stephen Fry
 
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight




 mrhappyface wrote:
Audustum wrote:
 mrhappyface wrote:
Audustum wrote:
Huh, no, I entered re-roll all hits on the site.

Got a screenshot of what you put in?


I do but I'm not really familiar with image hosting sites. I'm putting in 3+ to Hit with a -1 Modifier (Magnifica), re-roll all, 26 shots, S8 vs. T8, 2+ armor, AP-4, 4++ invuln, 6+++. What are you putting in?

I was meaning what did you put in without modifiers.

Though I've checked my maths for the modified result, it would seem this website doesn't allow you to re-roll 3s if you're BS3+ with a -1 to hit. Is this still how you resolve shooting? I thought that was only a thing last edition?


That is a thing of last edition so it is outdated if it's doing that. Adjustable by simply changing the BS to 4+ instead of 3+ though. Making that change drops it to 14.37 wounds (deviation of 6.43) at 23 shots (from 26).
   
Made in gb
Mighty Brass Scorpion of Khorne





Why Aye Ya Canny Dakkanaughts!

Audustum wrote:
That is a thing of last edition so it is outdated if it's doing that. Adjustable by simply changing the BS to 4+ instead of 3+ though. Making that change drops it to 14.37 wounds (deviation of 6.43) at 23 shots (from 26).

So as I said, around 19 shots without -1 to hit, around 22 shots with.

Ghorros wrote:
The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
 Marmatag wrote:
All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so f***ing what." - Stephen Fry
 
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




So my only problem with taking two shooty Telemons is why don't I just take the Ares for the cost? It can wipe anything off the map in it's first turn, and its capable of shooting way better than the Telemons. The biggest problem is I never earn the 500 back with it, but even if I wipe 300 points off the map with it, it's still done good work, and usually the rest is scattered and I clean up on objectives.
   
Made in gb
Mighty Brass Scorpion of Khorne





Why Aye Ya Canny Dakkanaughts!

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So my only problem with taking two shooty Telemons is why don't I just take the Ares for the cost? It can wipe anything off the map in it's first turn, and its capable of shooting way better than the Telemons. The biggest problem is I never earn the 500 back with it, but even if I wipe 300 points off the map with it, it's still done good work, and usually the rest is scattered and I clean up on objectives.

It's more shooty yes but doesn't have the staying power of 2 Telemons:
- Telemons get +1 invul save
- Telemons get a 6+FnP
- 2 Telemons have 6 more wounds
- Telemons get -1 damage
- Telemons can easily get -1 to hit from Vexhilla
- 2 targets are better than 1

Like it's 34 dark lances (without re-rolls) to take down a single Telemon whilst you only need 27 to take down an Ares. In terms of survivability, they're not even close.

Ghorros wrote:
The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
 Marmatag wrote:
All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so f***ing what." - Stephen Fry
 
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight




 mrhappyface wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So my only problem with taking two shooty Telemons is why don't I just take the Ares for the cost? It can wipe anything off the map in it's first turn, and its capable of shooting way better than the Telemons. The biggest problem is I never earn the 500 back with it, but even if I wipe 300 points off the map with it, it's still done good work, and usually the rest is scattered and I clean up on objectives.

It's more shooty yes but doesn't have the staying power of 2 Telemons:
- Telemons get +1 invul save
- Telemons get a 6+FnP
- 2 Telemons have 6 more wounds
- Telemons get -1 damage
- Telemons can easily get -1 to hit from Vexhilla
- 2 targets are better than 1

Like it's 34 dark lances (without re-rolls) to take down a single Telemon whilst you only need 27 to take down an Ares. In terms of survivability, they're not even close.


Also an Ares only gives you one WWSWF while two Telemons gives you two.
   
 
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