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2020/07/22 21:50:06
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
I see a lot of hype for Kronos and no doubt it seems deadly with symbiostorm and excocrines, but what about leviathan? I was thinking something like gaunts, warriors, 2 tyrannofexes, an exocrine for my first list. The emphasis on durable objective holders seems to give leviathan an edge, while the reroll 1s on Kronos has some anti-synergy with the removal of -1 on shooting and moving with the big bugs.
You can run both by giving up 2 CP for a patrol detachment.
Leviathan Battalion with your durable objective takers, and a Kronos Patrol with a psyker for Symbiostorm and shooting elements.
2020/07/22 22:44:53
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
At this point the Kronos patrol is almost mandatory if you want to run a list with shooty elements in it. Symbiostorm is ridiculous both on the Exo (exploding 5s) and on double-tapping Hive Guard (24 shots/round). The reroll 1s will pay the 2CP for the Patrol detachment several times over.
The main fighting force needs every single advantage that it can get, so a battalion of Levi/Jorm, or Kraken if you are brave enough to run something melee focused.
2020/07/22 22:45:44
Subject: Re:Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
On that topic... I personally think this will be one of the strongest lists. Not just the strongest list for Tyranids, but probably one of the strongest lists in the game.
Insane amounts of fearless obsec scoring, with a bunch of answers safely dug in to ensure objectives dominance and deal with any particular threats to the game plan.
2020/07/22 23:05:12
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Nitro Zeus wrote: On that topic... I personally think this will be one of the strongest lists. Not just the strongest list for Tyranids, but probably one of the strongest lists in the game.
Insane amounts of fearless obsec scoring, with a bunch of answers safely dug in to ensure objectives dominance and deal with any particular threats to the game plan.
What's your gameplan for secondaries?
2020/07/23 03:05:21
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Sorry guys, I should have been clearer, was first thing in the morning when I posted that. This is a skeleton list, I'm not trying to say that this specific load out will be the best way to play, just something very similar. If you feel a different Hive Fleet, take a different Hive Fleet, I can see the merits in those choices, Kraken as well. Doesn't have to be all Termagants, sub out for Hormagants, Gargs are looking like a nice unit for pushing out turn 1 as well, etc. I'm a pretty staunch believe in playtest > theoryhammer, and this is admittedly complete theoryhammer! But that's all we've really got until the edition releases. As such, while I play I'll feel out the best way to approach secondaries, and whether I need to take some more tools for that, or shift a few tools to deny secondaries better, etc. The list isn't iron clad at all, I just think something built from there will be very strong - maybe just like that in general. Tons of obsec scoring funnelling back onto objectives each turn, hidden melee to push off enemy objectives, and also plenty of smites (and other answers) to help out with this too.
2020/07/23 12:19:42
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
I think that "Behind enemy lines" is too good of a secondary for nids. We want to be in their face, and if we don't manage to get two units fully inside the enemy area, we can just deepstrike some. We got a huge a mount of cheap deepstrikes
Remember that the secondary is scored at the end of the turn. Turn 2 and 3 are guaranteed already with deepstrikers, you just need to squeeze in 2 more turns.
2020/07/23 13:52:56
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
a couple of MSU Stealers is gonna be a good option but a few Warriors I feel are more versatile, perform the same role, give me back-up Synapse, and take (most hits) a little better. Lets me save points, expand to a battalion, and break all the Termagant squads into 10 mans. Two Pyrovores cost feth all, outflank for free, and thanks to 10" flamer, deploy within burn range which is kinda cool now. Thinking of even grabbing a third one instead of the Rippers. Gotta wait till the webstore restocks Exocrine but I'm excited to playtest this.
a couple of MSU Stealers is gonna be a good option but a few Warriors I feel are more versatile, perform the same role, give me back-up Synapse, and take (most hits) a little better. Lets me save points, expand to a battalion, and break all the Termagant squads into 10 mans. Two Pyrovores cost feth all, outflank for free, and thanks to 10" flamer, deploy within burn range which is kinda cool now. Thinking of even grabbing a third one instead of the Rippers. Gotta wait till the webstore restocks Exocrine but I'm excited to playtest this.
Its 1 CP for the combined cost of ALL units you put in SR for PL 1-9 (and 2 CP 10-19, etc). So it'd be 1 CP for 4 PL of Pyrovores (2PL per base currently).
snoogums: "Just because something is not relavant doesn't mean it goes away completely."
Iorek: "Snoogums, you're right. Your arguments are irrelevant, and they sure as heck aren't going away."
2020/07/23 18:01:17
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Yeah, that will be my plan, the other two are safer on the board since they both have Dermic. Outflanking Exocrine with the strat can hopefully light up Eradicators etc
2020/07/24 08:50:16
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Tyran wrote: HS, biovores are cheap and help control enemy movement.
FA, gargoyles for more bodies.
Biovores are 50 PPM, gargoyles 7 PPM.
I honestly don't think these units will achieve much, but perhaps PracticeHammer will prove my theory wrong. Biovores will always have 33% chance to hit now, so no more auto miss spawning, and gargoyles are still as squishy as any other gaunt. Also, Gargoyles are very hard to hide (actually they are probably contenders for worst jump infantry in the game, and if you want to grab objectives turn 1, then you can just go for raveners I'd guess, which seem much better to me)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/24 08:51:59
Ere we go ere we go ere we go
Corona Givin’ Umies Da good ol Krulpin they deserve huh huh
2020/07/24 10:40:20
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Gargoyles could be the best jump infantry in the game now, depending on what you expect from them. They are probably the fastest fly unit in the game in that price range.
They have one thing that raveners don't have. Numbers. If your opponent parks an HQ and a 5 man unit on a point, you just move them near it and that's 5/10 primary points negated without wasting a single shot on them.
This is a capture and hold edition, which means that any resonably fast and numerous unit is the best distraction fex available. Your opponent has to get rid of all such units or he has no chances to score his objectives.
Tyranids are particularly good at it because we have possibly the most broken stratagem in 9th. Metabolic overdrive. Any of our units for 1 CP can potentially go on any point. Those 10 hormagaunts behind an obscuring terrain can jump into your home objective, turning a 60 point unit into 5/10 VP.
2 kind of units will excel in this edition; - Durable units that can take and survive on a point for one round. - Thief units that can steal objectives without fighting
Gargoyles and hormagaunts are excellent thieves. One is fast and can fly, the other is obsec and decently fast.
Where Nids will have to get creative is on the first kind of unit. We mostly lack it. Warriors and Tguards are our best bet.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/24 10:41:58
2020/07/24 11:16:13
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Gargoyles could be the best jump infantry in the game now, depending on what you expect from them. They are probably the fastest fly unit in the game in that price range.
They have one thing that raveners don't have. Numbers. If your opponent parks an HQ and a 5 man unit on a point, you just move them near it and that's 5/10 primary points negated without wasting a single shot on them.
This is a capture and hold edition, which means that any resonably fast and numerous unit is the best distraction fex available. Your opponent has to get rid of all such units or he has no chances to score his objectives.
Tyranids are particularly good at it because we have possibly the most broken stratagem in 9th. Metabolic overdrive. Any of our units for 1 CP can potentially go on any point. Those 10 hormagaunts behind an obscuring terrain can jump into your home objective, turning a 60 point unit into 5/10 VP.
2 kind of units will excel in this edition;
- Durable units that can take and survive on a point for one round.
- Thief units that can steal objectives without fighting
Gargoyles and hormagaunts are excellent thieves. One is fast and can fly, the other is obsec and decently fast.
Where Nids will have to get creative is on the first kind of unit. We mostly lack it. Warriors and Tguards are our best bet.
"Metabolic overdrive most broken stratagem in 9th", you have missed an army wide 2x Move + Run from ANY IG infantry that is much better than any single unit Metabolic Overdrive which in your own point of view would be broken beyond belief (also those 10 Hormagaunts will become 7/8 after Metabolic Overdrive due to rolling 1s)
You're not realizing that your enemy can also prevent your movement with semi-decent positioning, not allowing your units to reach the magical 3" of an Objective, therefore making your Hormagaunts run bomb totally useless and also inefficient at soaking damage (due to being 6 ppm per T3 6+ body)
2020/07/24 13:00:49
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Gargoyles could be the best jump infantry in the game now, depending on what you expect from them. They are probably the fastest fly unit in the game in that price range.
They have one thing that raveners don't have. Numbers. If your opponent parks an HQ and a 5 man unit on a point, you just move them near it and that's 5/10 primary points negated without wasting a single shot on them.
This is a capture and hold edition, which means that any resonably fast and numerous unit is the best distraction fex available. Your opponent has to get rid of all such units or he has no chances to score his objectives.
Tyranids are particularly good at it because we have possibly the most broken stratagem in 9th. Metabolic overdrive. Any of our units for 1 CP can potentially go on any point. Those 10 hormagaunts behind an obscuring terrain can jump into your home objective, turning a 60 point unit into 5/10 VP.
2 kind of units will excel in this edition; - Durable units that can take and survive on a point for one round. - Thief units that can steal objectives without fighting
Gargoyles and hormagaunts are excellent thieves. One is fast and can fly, the other is obsec and decently fast.
Where Nids will have to get creative is on the first kind of unit. We mostly lack it. Warriors and Tguards are our best bet.
"Metabolic overdrive most broken stratagem in 9th", you have missed an army wide 2x Move + Run from ANY IG infantry that is much better than any single unit Metabolic Overdrive which in your own point of view would be broken beyond belief (also those 10 Hormagaunts will become 7/8 after Metabolic Overdrive due to rolling 1s) You're not realizing that your enemy can also prevent your movement with semi-decent positioning, not allowing your units to reach the magical 3" of an Objective, therefore making your Hormagaunts run bomb totally useless and also inefficient at soaking damage (due to being 6 ppm per T3 6+ body)
You may have missed that "Move! Move! Move!" is not a stratagem so your point was already moot. Also, it affects only infantry squads, while Metabolic overdrive is that good because it affects whatever you want making your attack angles unpredictable.
You may also have missed that to position correctly like you said, you require quite a few models on the point. Stopping a small model which moves 23" from partially entering a 7,5" diameter area is much harder than it looks.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/24 13:01:31
2020/07/24 16:17:47
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Gargoyles could be the best jump infantry in the game now, depending on what you expect from them. They are probably the fastest fly unit in the game in that price range.
They have one thing that raveners don't have. Numbers. If your opponent parks an HQ and a 5 man unit on a point, you just move them near it and that's 5/10 primary points negated without wasting a single shot on them.
This is a capture and hold edition, which means that any resonably fast and numerous unit is the best distraction fex available. Your opponent has to get rid of all such units or he has no chances to score his objectives.
Tyranids are particularly good at it because we have possibly the most broken stratagem in 9th. Metabolic overdrive. Any of our units for 1 CP can potentially go on any point. Those 10 hormagaunts behind an obscuring terrain can jump into your home objective, turning a 60 point unit into 5/10 VP.
2 kind of units will excel in this edition;
- Durable units that can take and survive on a point for one round.
- Thief units that can steal objectives without fighting
Gargoyles and hormagaunts are excellent thieves. One is fast and can fly, the other is obsec and decently fast.
Where Nids will have to get creative is on the first kind of unit. We mostly lack it. Warriors and Tguards are our best bet.
"Metabolic overdrive most broken stratagem in 9th", you have missed an army wide 2x Move + Run from ANY IG infantry that is much better than any single unit Metabolic Overdrive which in your own point of view would be broken beyond belief (also those 10 Hormagaunts will become 7/8 after Metabolic Overdrive due to rolling 1s)
You're not realizing that your enemy can also prevent your movement with semi-decent positioning, not allowing your units to reach the magical 3" of an Objective, therefore making your Hormagaunts run bomb totally useless and also inefficient at soaking damage (due to being 6 ppm per T3 6+ body)
You may have missed that "Move! Move! Move!" is not a stratagem so your point was already moot. Also, it affects only infantry squads, while Metabolic overdrive is that good because it affects whatever you want making your attack angles unpredictable.
You may also have missed that to position correctly like you said, you require quite a few models on the point. Stopping a small model which moves 23" from partially entering a 7,5" diameter area is much harder than it looks.
1) This is why it's much better: you can use it multiple times without any CP spending
2) False, it works on any <Regiment> unit that has the INFANTRY keyword, namely all Commanders, Infantry Squads, Conscripts, Veteran, Special Weapon Squad, Command Squads, Scions of all kind with a Tempestor Prime and HWT (70% of all non-vehicle choices)
2020/07/24 16:38:34
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
You also need to have officers alive, which is an issue with how easier it is to kill characters now, plus the more restrictive detachment system. It isn't without weaknesses.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/24 16:38:48
2020/07/24 16:39:41
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Tyran wrote: HS, biovores are cheap and help control enemy movement.
FA, gargoyles for more bodies.
Biovores are 50 PPM, gargoyles 7 PPM.
I honestly don't think these units will achieve much, but perhaps PracticeHammer will prove my theory wrong. Biovores will always have 33% chance to hit now, so no more auto miss spawning, and gargoyles are still as squishy as any other gaunt. Also, Gargoyles are very hard to hide (actually they are probably contenders for worst jump infantry in the game, and if you want to grab objectives turn 1, then you can just go for raveners I'd guess, which seem much better to me)
Even without being able to intentionally miss, I've found Biovores to be quite useful in 9th. All you have to do is miss two out of three shots (74% at 5+), deploy them 3" apart right in front of an enemy unit, and presto, the no-moving-within-an-inch restriction creates an effectively 7" wide wall that they have to go around- or even wider, if you're trying to block a vehicle or monster. They also don't have to worry about Overwatch, so your opponent has to put some kind of real fire into them- elite armies in particular are forced to wildly overkill them.
Throw in the ability to put out a couple of no-LOSMW pretty much anywhere on the board when you actually want them to hit, and I find them to be quite useful as a utility unit. Not something that wins games on their own, but a useful enough asset for the cost, and they can always chill on a backfield objective while doing it.
What are thoughts on a 5 or 6 man unit of Tyrant Guard w/ Enhanced Resistance and Swarmlord for going and sitting on an objective, or walking over and taking an objective from someone else?
rollawaythestone wrote: What are thoughts on a 5 or 6 man unit of Tyrant Guard w/ Enhanced Resistance and Swarmlord for going and sitting on an objective, or walking over and taking an objective from someone else?
I'd go 5-bug, not 6-bug.
Most d3 blast weapons don't like shooting at hordes-Neutron Lasers, Plasma Cannons, stuff like that. Tyrant Guard, though... Juicy targets. No need to give an extra 50% shots.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
2020/07/24 18:11:21
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
rollawaythestone wrote: What are thoughts on a 5 or 6 man unit of Tyrant Guard w/ Enhanced Resistance and Swarmlord for going and sitting on an objective, or walking over and taking an objective from someone else?
Edit: I'm dumb and misread Tyrant Guard as Hive Guard. Rewriting.
Edit 2: I've been thinking about Tyrant Guard lately. Their defensive profile is pretty solid, and Enhanced Resistance helps them out against high-volume, low-AP fire. They also actually were treated pretty gently by the points update, with a unit of 6 w/ Crushing Claws clocking in at 50pts apiece.
The problem I see is that they still are around double the cost of a Warrior while being no more resistant to S6-7 shooting. Lascannons at least will wound them on a 3+ rather than the 2+ of Warriors, but each wound that goes through takes out a lot more, and you don't have Unyielding Chitin to protect them. They'd be a very attractive target for anti-tank weapons.
I would also question what they'd be doing once they get on an objective- taking objectives from the enemy is good, but holding them with melee units means they eat fire without being able to do anything in return. Warriors at least can be given decent shooting, and use it while on the move. They also really need to catch a tank or other high-T, multiwound unit to be more cost-efficient in melee. With the Bonesword+Lash Whip option, it gets worse, with their only offensive advantage over Bonesword+Lash Whip Warriors being +1S, while still costing 41pts vs the 24pts (+ ranged weapon) of a Warrior.
They're kind of in a weird area, stat-wise- they pay for the bodyguarding ability and additionally pay for a decent statline, and so wind up being efficient at neither. Every time I start thinking about Tyrant Guard, I end up taking a Carnifex instead. No bodyguarding, but for about the price of 2 Tyrant Guard with Crushing Claws, you can get a Carnifex with 1 more wound at 2 higher T, and 1 less attack but at better WS, S, and Damage. Going in the other direction, instead of Lash Whip + Bonesword Tyrant Guard, Warriors offer a lot more wounds (albeit at worse T and Sv), a lot more attacks (at 1 lower S), Unyielding Chitin to soak more damage, and some shooting capability too. Is the bodyguarding worth the loss of capability? I'm inclined to say no, but maybe there's more to it.
I would say though that deep striking in a unit of Tyrant Guard through Pheromone Trail seems like a neat way to get a unit of can-openers onto the board wherever they're useful. That at least is something a Carnifex can't do.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/07/24 18:36:14
I like Tyrant Guard because they are just fighty enough that the enemy can't ignore them, but not so fighty that I have to pay a bunch of points for a unit whose primary job is to die. I don't see much reason to take a full 6-man as opposed to 5, but beyond that they seem to have done pretty well in my (admittedly inexperienced) opinion. I'm also biased though, because I have a Hive Tyrant conversion I really like and want to keep alive to see in action.
Unrelated note, seeing clarification on some things. First I assume Jormungandr cover is now light cover? I did not see it specifically covered in the FAQ. Second; with venom cannons being blast weapons, and blast weapons always getting at least 3 shots against 6+ model targets, aren't they really dam sweet now always getting max shots against such?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/26 04:47:53
NinthMusketeer wrote: I like Tyrant Guard because they are just fighty enough that the enemy can't ignore them, but not so fighty that I have to pay a bunch of points for a unit whose primary job is to die. I don't see much reason to take a full 6-man as opposed to 5, but beyond that they seem to have done pretty well in my (admittedly inexperienced) opinion. I'm also biased though, because I have a Hive Tyrant conversion I really like and want to keep alive to see in action.
Unrelated note, seeing clarification on some things. First I assume Jormungandr cover is now light cover? I did not see it specifically covered in the FAQ. Second; with venom cannons being blast weapons, and blast weapons always getting at least 3 shots against 6+ model targets, aren't they really dam sweet now always getting max shots against such?
For the venoms, yeah, I think they're probably our best weapon that can go on a lot of chassis. Carnifexes, Tyrants, and warriors will be lugging them around. Stranglethorns might see some use, but we have a lot of anti-infantry stuff hanging around most of the time.
As for the Jorm trait, I haven't heard anything. It would make sense though I guess.
PourSpelur wrote: It's fully within the rules for me to look up your Facebook page, find out your dear Mother Gladys is single, take her on a lovely date, and tell you all the details of our hot, sweaty, animal sex during your psychic phase.
I mean, fifty bucks is on the line.
There's no rule that says I can't.
Hive Fleet Hercual - 6760pts