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NoobLord wrote:How many DC villains can you remember outside Gotham City?

A lot. There are many DC readers and trying to base the comparison on people who only read (or mostly read) Marvel isn't going to do the trick.

NoobLord wrote:Marvel.

How many DC villains can you remember outside Gotham City? And how many do you remember from JUST the silver-age Amazing Spider-Man?

Dude. The Marvel Multiverse has just so many superheroes, that they would smash DC to death. The Sentry (R.Reynolds, the one from New Avengers vol.2), Sub-Mariner (DC has a clone of him called Aquaman or something), Silver Surfer, Hulk, Dr Strange... the list goes on. And that's only what was on the top of my mind.

Plus, just as Typeline said, no Marvel character can stop 9/11, while Superman just plays "catch" with aircraft as if it were paperballs.

Loads. And, like most silver age villains, most of spider mans enemies are pretty lame.

The Silver Surfer couldn't stop 9/11 ? Really ?

Leaving aside the distastefulness of using this as some sort of benchmark for fictional universes anyway ( ...)

There's quite a few Marvel heroes that could have at least altered the events of that day.

Look at the attached. Mr. Fantastic builds self regenerating buildings. That fix themselves just like that.

Overall with regards to individual power levels DC has a lot more super supe strong characters than Marvel does. Hell almost the entire city of Kandor is flying around the planet Earth at the moment.

reds8n wrote:

Loads. And, like most silver age villains, most of spider mans enemies are pretty lame.

The Silver Surfer couldn't stop 9/11 ? Really ?

Leaving aside the distastefulness of using this as some sort of benchmark for fictional universes anyway ( ...)

There's quite a few Marvel heroes that could have at least altered the events of that day.

Look at the attached. Mr. Fantastic builds self regenerating buildings. That fix themselves just like that.

Overall with regards to individual power levels DC has a lot more super supe strong characters than Marvel does. Hell almost the entire city of Kandor is flying around the planet Earth at the moment.

Yes, a lot of them were very lame, but they are memorable. just like that I can recall Venom, Carnage, Doc Ock, Lizard, Morlun, Rhino, Green Goblin, Hobgoblin, Vulture, Electro, Shocker...

Well, for one he wasn't there. Secondly... how long did the event of 9/11 last? The heroes and villains were all busy fighting themselves, to actually stop and try to protect humanity from their ACTUAL enemies... aren't most villains just enemies of the superheroes?

Maybe it was distasteful, but 9/11 in ASM did made my eyes a little watery when I read it 5 years after the event.

Ummm. Did Mr Fantastic develop those building before or after 9/11?

Yes, DC has a lot of supe strong characters. Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern etc. but apart from the main characters, DC has little to offer. Plastic Man? Don't even try it...

Though DC has one thing that makes me have respect for it - Batman. The entire coolness of comic books is Batman. Nothing beats Batman.

NoobLord wrote:How many DC villains can you remember outside Gotham City?

And how many do you remember from JUST the silver-age Amazing Spider-Man?

no Marvel character can stop 9/11, while Superman just plays "catch" with aircraft as if it were paperballs.

Memorable super-villians? Maybe talk about the Flash. Or Aquaman. Talk about lamers with lame opponents...

So the point is that DC / Superman just didn't care about 9/11? Nice.

I like Flash, but his rogue's gallery is pretty weak. Gorilla Grod? The Mirror Master?? Captain Cold???

Personally, I just don't think that DC has that much to offer outside of Gotham. But I never read Superman or JLA, maybe I'm missing out on something.

Marvel has better storylines on the whole, but DC is a richer universe.

DC has more potential than Marvel, they need the writers to realise this however.

Chrysaor686 wrote:And what about The Hulk? That would be a fight to see.

It wasn't. They fought for all of a page before Supes started talking and calmed him down.

warpcrafter wrote:They only seem tough because they've never messed with Spawn!

Batman did. He dug a batarang halfway through Spawn's face.

Typeline wrote:
I like how marvel weaves real world events into their comics too. Marvel doesn't have a super hero who can just instantly stop 9/11, so they had a 9/11 issue and it was paved with tragedy and it was very good. .

DC does, too. Every book had issues about 9/11.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Aren't the Guardians of Oa dead? Weren't they killed by Hal Jordan? Wimps.

Also, I don't think that Dream / Death are part of the normal DC universe...

Guardians are back, Ganthet recreated the rest.

Also, Sandman(whether Morpheus or Daniel Hall) is "normal" DCU(all books published by a company owned by DC are). He(Daniel, not Morpheus) both aided the Justice League in defeating Starro and claimed the souls of his parents(including Hector "Dr. Fate" Hall) as they were dying in 2006.


As for memorable non-Bats villains? Deathstroke, Lex, Bizarro, Darkseid, Parallax, Eclipso, Vandal Savage, Brother Blood, Monsieur Mallah and the Brain, Sinestro...

Also, DC writes much better storylines because they hire better writers. Identity Crisis, Killing Joke, Red Son, Dark Knight Returns, For Tommorrow, Arkham Asylum, and Kingdom Come vs Conquest(and post-Conquest), maybe Demon in a Bottle and Earth X. I went back and re-read my copies of the "big" Marvel stories(Maximum Carnage, Infinity Wars, etc.) and realized most of them are extremely cheesy and horrendous. The writing was terrible. The best thing Marvel produces storyline wise is the stuff for Conquest/post-Conquest, and mostly cause it's good writers working on a Space Opera(same reason I'm becoming more and more a Green Lantern Corps fan, especially with Sinestro Wars/Corps Wars/Darkest Night) with almost no super heroes(I love Rocket Racoon). As a kid, I loved Marvel(even/especially Maximum Clonage, big Scarlet Spider fan), but as I grew up and matured, DC kept reading better and better, especially the parts when no one's fighting, where as Marvel stayed about the same level(IMO). Marvel puts on decent fight scenes and that's about it.

Marvel had Dazzler, yech. DC had Amethyst, Double yech.

I guess I'm just to old becuase I remember the beyonder in Marvel and your not gonna out power him.


Also marvel has the Gods. You can't out power that either. DC showed the multiverse. Marvel showed all of creation and then what existed outside of it.

Edge in power scale goes to Marvel

Funny, I just realized that while everyone thinks Captain America is Marvels version of Superman, he's not. Supermans closet corralary is The mighty Thor.

Both Uberman, both blue w/red cape, both with mild mannered secret identities(Thors was a little edgier), Both Heros died, Both have had there storyline end at least once, both had multiple versions of themselves,hhhhmmmmThors weakness is kryptonite!!!! But because it doesn't exist in Marvel reality He has fewer weaknesses. Edge to Thor and thus by proxy to Marvel.

focusedfire wrote: I guess I'm just to old becuase I remember the beyonder in Marvel and your not gonna out power him.

Beyonder's dead.

focusedfire wrote:Also marvel has the Gods. You can't out power that either. DC showed the multiverse. Marvel showed all of creation and then what existed outside of it.

DC has the New Gods and the Olympians, Shazam is a god, and DC has the Big G. The Multiverse IS all of creation for DC.

focusedfire wrote:Funny, I just realized that while everyone thinks Captain America is Marvels version of Superman, he's not. Supermans closet corralary is The mighty Thor.

No, Marvel's version of Supes is Sentry. Even has the same costume, the only thing missing is anything that isn't flying, invulnerability, and superstrength. Also, Supes has Krypto, so he automatically wins(yes, I DO love characters everyone else hates).

Krypto is way cooler than Streaky or comet. a lot of drugs in the 60s clearly

Surely Marvels' version of the big S is Hyperion from Squadron Supreme ?

I think both companies produce some good stuff and some bad stuff. At the turn of the century DC were doing better when Chuck Dixon was writing the bat books. Before that they had the comedy gold of JLI. Nowadays I think Marvel are doing much better, or they were until One More Day. I can't stand what Grant Morrison has done to the DCU, it makes me sick. His batman is attrocious. ASBAR is completely horrible. The only decent book DC are currently putting out is Green Lantern Corps, but as soon as they realise it's popular they'll ruin it. The big problem with both companies isn't the writers, who cross pollinate between them (Straczynski is doing DC now whereas Jeff Jones is doing Marvel, and Dixon did a great run on Spiderman a few years ago) but the terrible, terrible editors.
2000AD is a very refreshing comic world for people used to superhero comics. If you can track down some of the better stories it's worth giving a go- just be ready for the "cliffhanger every six pages" writing style that comes from the different format.

Well, just finished ploughing my way through the four volumes of Age of Apocalypse.

Little confusing here and there, but a masterpiece to my mind. Nice to see the bad guys being good guys if things had gone differently, and vice versa. Neatly illustrates that good and bad are largely matters of perspective...

Platuan4th wrote:
As for memorable non-Bats villains? Deathstroke, Lex, Bizarro, Darkseid, Parallax, Eclipso, Vandal Savage, Brother Blood, Monsieur Mallah and the Brain, Sinestro...

Also, DC writes much better storylines because they hire better writers. Identity Crisis, Killing Joke, Red Son, Dark Knight Returns, For Tommorrow, Arkham Asylum, and Kingdom Come vs Conquest(and post-Conquest), maybe Demon in a Bottle and Earth X. I went back and re-read my copies of the "big" Marvel stories(Maximum Carnage, Infinity Wars, etc.) and realized most of them are extremely cheesy and horrendous. The writing was terrible. The best thing Marvel produces storyline wise is the stuff for Conquest/post-Conquest, and mostly cause it's good writers working on a Space Opera(same reason I'm becoming more and more a Green Lantern Corps fan, especially with Sinestro Wars/Corps Wars/Darkest Night) with almost no super heroes(I love Rocket Racoon). As a kid, I loved Marvel(even/especially Maximum Clonage, big Scarlet Spider fan), but as I grew up and matured, DC kept reading better and better, especially the parts when no one's fighting, where as Marvel stayed about the same level(IMO). Marvel puts on decent fight scenes and that's about it.

Okay, I can agree with Lex, Deathstroke, Darkside and maybe Bizzaro, but the rest? I don't know most of them, but I fail to see how a evil yellow lantern can be an interesting villian.

I haven't read that many interesting DC stories which are not some sort of Elseworld story. Dark Knight retunrs was brilliant, but it's not canon, is it?
Marvel has some pretty good stories from time to time. The entire Spider-Man run from Strazynski was really great imho. Until it was RUINED by ing Quesada and Brand New Day.

Imperial wrote:Well like the title says who do you think would win in an all out fight?

Image.

Anung Un Rama wrote:I don't know most of them, but I fail to see how a evil yellow lantern can be an interesting villian.

If you don't know how someone who can manipulate the greatest Lantern ever into dismantling the Corps, killing fellow lanterns and the Guardians, and freeing and becoming the living embodiment of fear(the very opposite of the Corps) interesting, I can't help you. He even literally rips the living embodiment of Willpower out of Kyle Rayner(wuss) after single handedly enslaving the Qwardians and forcing them to make rings to form the Sinestro corps.

He even literally rips the living embodiment of Willpower out of Kyle Rayner(wuss) after single handedly enslaving the Qwardians and forcing them to make rings to form the Sinestro corps.

That explains why I haven't heard anything from Rayner in years

Dc currently owns a fraction of image now- Dc owns the wildcats, planetary, gen 13, authority and some others Which I forgot the comic's titles

Too bad Image couldn't keep a deadline or storyline to save their lives.

Pretty pictures, though. At least until they decided to contract out.

(That doesn't count Liefield)

Green Lantern. DC loses.

From what I know about JLA, I always thought it was very interesting that Lex Luthor, brilliant, but still only human, somehow managed to be on top of the DC villian pile. Which doesn't seem so easy considering how many overpowered Aliens and Gods usually ran amok in this universe.

Platuan4th wrote:Beyonder's dead.

DC has the New Gods and the Olympians, Shazam is a god, and DC has the Big G. The Multiverse IS all of creation for DC.

No, Marvel's version of Supes is Sentry. Even has the same costume, the only thing missing is anything that isn't flying, invulnerability, and superstrength. Also, Supes has Krypto, so he automatically wins(yes, I DO love characters everyone else hates).

Beyonder chose to die, in a J.C. like sacrifice.


Marvel also has the big G and it also has Jr. played by Peter Parker/Spidey.(Who in Stan Lee's life named Peter and initialed P.P. was such a savior that he makes them into his christ figures. Because Hero's Peter Petrelli=Peter Parker Story arc wise)

I disagree, Sentry may have had some of the look but he wasn't a lead character. Story and Power wise Thor is a closer match. Thor had the Warriors Three, Nordic Three Musketeers. There was also Fenris and he beats a campy ol' mutt any day.

Marvel wins alone on the Tribute to the Literary Great Alexander Dumas.

But then They actually killed him off, No whusing out and bringing him back. Marvel killed off a lead character and left them dead. Both companies have killed off characters and brought them back or had some one else assume the mantle and name. Marvel killed off Thor and left the name dead.

As for Spawn, two words Ghost Rider. Marvel did it first.

focusedfire wrote:Marvel also has the big G and it also has Jr. played by Peter Parker/Spidey.(Who in Stan Lee's life named Peter and initialed P.P. was such a savior that he makes them into his christ figures. Because Hero's Peter Petrelli=Peter Parker Story arc wise)

JC showed up to aide Spidey after Aunt May was shot, so Spidey=/=Jr.

I thought Molecule Man killed Beyonder in baby form?

olympia wrote:Green Lantern. DC loses.

Wait what is that supposed to mean- Green Lantern is owned by DC are you saying that because green lanter DC losses?

focusedfire wrote:
As for Spawn, two words Ghost Rider. Marvel did it first.

True, and as much as I like ghost rider (sans Nicholas Cage) McFarlane did it better. He also did spidey better I have to say that I enjoy the core characters of Marvel more than DC. I think that especially considering the recent Messiah Complex, Civil War, and the new X-force book, marvel is doing a better job with story and writing. But I like the fringe characters on the DC side alot better, Simon Dark for instance. It seems like DC keeps alot of the generic writing, and "cheese" for it's major players, and Marvel does the same for it's fringe chars.
I know it's not specifically under discussion, but since I got into comics because of Image it's only fair to make note of them. Rob Leifield is a toolbox. Image keeps to schedules like Oprah keeps to diets. Spawn hit menopause a few years ago, but the new art and direction of the book is astonishing. If you haven't read Spawn for awhile I highly recommend it, you will be surprised. I am a firm believer that Spawn can kick any other hero's ass, DC or Marvel.

When McFarlane actually drew, he even did Batman better!

*cough*Moon Knight*cough*

McFarlane and Batman you say?

Aside from Batman, DC ain't got no interesting characters and their power level is so high it makes most battles meaningless.

But then Marvel has my favourite superhero Dr Doom. He is a hero dammit, every time he takes over the world it does become a better place...

He did actually succeed in the Emperor Doom graphic novel.

In one of those twists so beloved by writers he pretty much gave up ruling the world as he found it incredibly tedious dealing with border disputes and tractor quotas.

Personally I find the Marvel characters much duller and pedestrian, mainly as they refuse to ever let them change or evolve. Never really read Spider man comics regularly but thought it was cool they way he grew up, got married etc etc. And now.... wow! Way to annoy people.

Did have a soft spot for Darkhawk, the original New Warriors and dug some of the early issues of the MOrbius series back in the midnight sons era. I just prefer my heroes to be/act a bit more iconically and I find DC does that better.

Marvels was wicked, but I thought Kingdom Come was much better.

Perhaps neither as good as Moore's Twilight might have been but there you go.

I dunno dude.

Civil War is an excellent example of why Marvel trumps DC. Take Captain America...he shows a side of him akin to a petulant child, and split the heroes more or less down the middle. Why? He refused to be registered. Possibly (arguably?) inspired by The Incredibles, a Superhero Registrar is developed, with the Heroes being held responsible for their actions (namely when some NooBs bite off more than they can chew and end up nuking a small town...).

Not such a bad thing, but old Cap' goes off on one!

Now that is a character development and a half!