Where have all the tournaments gone?

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**Black Blow Fly**

I would to see the GW GTs make a comeback. They tend to be well run are always a lot of fun. For me they are an opportunity to spend time with friends I don't see often and play a lot of games in a short period of time. I think they will comeback, but I don't have a good feel for the priority level.

G

**skrulnik**

I still do not understand why the RTT that are all over are not good enough for you and your tournament going friends.

Your big issue seems to be that GW isn't running them.

Well woop de doo.. Adepticon, BoLSCon, the Big Waagh. I am sure I have read of others.

They are all tournaments that are going to be or have been run this year.

Adepticon was great this past year, will be great in the coming year. It isn't the only player run tourney out there.

Just maybe the friends you hope to see will be at one of them.

If you are ignoring those events because they are not the "GT Circuit", then you are just whining. There is no need to keep trying to justify your complaint.

**Deadshane1**

skrulnik wrote:I still do not understand why the RTT that are all over are not good enough for you and your tournament going friends.

I'm not going to waste time comparing "national event" GT's to RTT's. It's not even comparing apples to oranges. More like apples to power tools.

Here's a hint though, people will purchase a 300 dollar plane ticket and spend upwards of 500 bucks for a weekend hotel room to attend a GT or Adepticon event....and be happy with the expenditure.

...anyone who would do the same for a RTT event is simply a blithering idiot.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Deadshane1 wrote:
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:I think there is something fairly critical being overlooked in this.

There appears to be an assumption that Tournament players are less supported than Casual players, yes?

I call shenanigans on that one. GW have released 5th Ed as a sort of modular rules set. Main book tells you how to play 40k, and expansions offer specialised battlefields complete with additional rules and tricks. This benefits everyone, as even a Tournament Player plays casually.

So rather than being underserved, you are served exactly the same as everyone else, but seem to want something a little extra to prove you are the best. GW already have your money, and the money of thousands and thousands of gamers who don't play in Tournaments. Why should they invest additional money to please a minority, when the majority appears pretty happy with things as they are?

Apocalupse and Planetstrike, as with every new book released, drive sales far far more than the Tournament scene ever could, so please don't claim some kind of saviour like spending ability, as it is simply untrue.

All I'm saying is that I'm upset with the lack of GW sponsored tournements that I've enjoyed over the last 12-13 years. Upset with "all of a sudden" not having them to go to.

Same way as you'd be completely justified in going to McDonalds to order your 'Big Mac on Wednesday' only to see that McD's has done away with Big Mac's entirely....with no reason other than. "We're not making them anymore and we really dont have to give you a reason. Choose something else from the menu, we dont care how much you like 'Big Macs' since everyone else orders 1/4 pounders."

I see where you're coming from matey, and I'm not just dick posting to annoy people. But running a Tournament costs GW money which, assumedly (I don't actually know for sure though) they don't necessarily get back from the people attending. I mean, you have to hire the venue, provide the tables and terrain, pay the staff etc. All adds up.

But to say Tournament players are getting stiffed over Casual players simply isn't true. Your above analogy isn't terribly accurate as to McD's, whichever cardboard flavoured filth you order, it's pretty standard fare. What I'm getting at is the Tournament player is like someone ordering a customised Burger, ala no Pickles, extra Lettuce, then finding out that they no longer offer the customisation service. You still have the same options and support as the other customers not fussed for Burger related tinkerings, but to say that you are now marginalised just isn't accurate.

And as others have said, there are still Tournaments. Lots of them. Just GW no longer invest time and effort in running them.

**skrulnik**

Deadshane1 wrote:

I'm not going to waste time comparing "national event" GT's to RTT's. It's not even comparing apples to oranges. More like apples to power tools.

Here's a hint though, people will purchase a 300 dollar plane ticket and spend upwards of 500 bucks for a weekend hotel room to attend a GT or Adepticon event....and be happy with the expenditure.

...anyone who would do the same for a RTT event is simply a blithering idiot.

So now Adepticon is run by GW???

And good job insulting all those devoted people who put on the RTTs.

Apparently the elitist note in your previous posts was intentional.

**Deadshane1**

skrulnik wrote:
Deadshane1 wrote:

I'm not going to waste time comparing "national event" GT's to RTT's. It's not even comparing apples to oranges. More like apples to power tools.

Here's a hint though, people will purchase a 300 dollar plane ticket and spend upwards of 500 bucks for a weekend hotel room to attend a GT or Adepticon event....and be happy with the expenditure.

...anyone who would do the same for a RTT event is simply a blithering idiot.

So now Adepticon is run by GW???

And good job insulting all those devoted people who put on the RTTs.

Apparently the elitist note in your previous posts was intentional.

I think everyone here knows what sort of RTT I'm talking about. People dont 'Travel' vast distances and take out hotel rooms for simple RTT's alone.

When you go to Adepticon, you're "Going to Adepticon", not "Going to an RTT. Oh, btw its at Adepticon."

**Bunker**

Deadshane1 wrote:

I think everyone here knows what sort of RTT I'm talking about.

I don't. Would you mind filling in people such as myself who don't follow you?

**Deadshane1**

Bunker wrote:
Deadshane1 wrote:

I think everyone with intelligence here knows what sort of RTT I'm talking about.

I don't. Would you mind filling in people such as myself who don't follow you?

There we go, fixed it for the smart apples.

**R3con**

I'd actually love to see the tournament scene flounder and die.

Get the hobby back to where it was 10 years ago when it was a more friendly game without all the min/maxing.

I think losing some of the RP elements RT had has really hurt 40k.

**Deadshane1**

R3con wrote:I'd actually love to see the tournament scene flounder and die.

Get the hobby back to where it was 10 years ago when it was a more friendly game without all the min/maxing.

I think losing some of the RP elements RT had has really hurt 40k.

Wow, were you even here 10 years ago?

Nothing has changed, there have been, and always will be, competetive gamers.

"I'd love to see the tournament scene flounder and die." No you wouldnt, if you love your hobby, you'd want to see it healthy and reaping rewards for GW to ensure their healthy business profile.

**MeanGreenStompa**

R3con wrote:I'd actually love to see the tournament scene flounder and die.

Get the hobby back to where it was 10 years ago when it was a more friendly game without all the min/maxing.

I think losing some of the RP elements RT had has really hurt 40k.

There is entirely room for both. Whilst I doubt I would enjoy playing in tourneys, I can well see the appeal of them and wouldn't mind seeing a few more.

**Frazzled**

Deadshane1 wrote:
Sidstyler wrote:I know, there's been a frightening lack of Wrecking Crew-related drama on the internet lately. 'Ard Boyz is the only thing I have to look forward to in order to get my fix.

Why thank you for the un needed/wanted and irrelevant jab at the WC.

I am sorry that you seem fixated on your hate for us, but can we please keep it on topic, thanx.

"Oh look...he's got a WC banner in his sig, NOW'S MY CHANCE!"

EDIT: Yea, and if you're going to quote someone, it helps to get the quote right to avoid confusion. We understand however, you're blinded by your irrational hatred of the WC. Seek help.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Good job and good riddance.

Yes, by all means, ignore what a decent percentage of your clientele want. Thats is after all a large part of the GW mantra right?

After all, tournaments werent a catalyst for anyone to build new armies or generate exitement in the hobby for anyone.

Sounds like a job opportunity Deady. the old volunteer mantra has now occurred. If you complain about, you're now in charge of it.
I expect to hear details of your new tourney next week-and pronto!

**Alpharius**

There is room for both, just as there should be room to discuss this issue without resorting to personal attacks, thinly veiled or not.

This thread is coming close to the edge as it is, and is generating way too many Mod Alerts.

Keep it civil, or wave goodbye to it.

**Toxxic**

I like gaming. I like tournament gaming, I like pick up gaming. I like traveling to game, I like gaming local. I like to game. I'm sure I'm not the only gamer who feels this way. Tournaments are great and I hope GW brings back the GTs. I might go to one, I might not. I fail to see how someone who has no intention of going to a GT hopes to see the scene "flounder and die". A lack of GTs isn't going to keep people from min/maxing. That will always happen.

**Deadshane1**

Frazzled wrote:I expect to hear details of your new tourney next week-and pronto!

Sadly...I'm expecting to move back home to Texas within the next 6 months to year. After I get settled in and things back to normal, you'll be the first to know.

Was seriously thinking about starting up...Deadcon.

**JohnHwangDD**

Ohh.... Now I like McRib!

Of course, it sucks that McD no longer is doing the Beanie Baby Happy Meals. As a customer spanning 4 decades of patronage, I am far more entitled to demand McD provide a perpetual Beanie Baby McRib Happy Meal, than some newbie demanding Tournaments with only a dozen years as a customer with GW.

**Deadshane1**

JohnHwangDD wrote:Ohh.... Now I like McRib!

Most logical thing you've said in 3 pages!

**Alpharius**

JohnHwangDD wrote:If Tournament players really were a significant and important part of GW's bottom-line profits, then I'm sure that GW would be bending over backwards to support it.

The very fact that GW is doing just fine in a declining / recessionary market from a bottom line profits standpoint while giving the Tournament crowd the proverbial finger (i.e. no FAQs, no US GTs, minimal Indy support) means that Tournaments really are an insignificant and unimportant part of their customer base.

Clearly, GTs have completed their purpose, and GW has moved beyond that phase in the same way that Wal-Mart no longer trumpets having the absolute lowest prices, IBM no longer pushes Selectric typewriters, and GM no longer makes Pontiac, Oldsmobile, or Saturn cars.

And, as a non-Tournament player, having GW pour more resources into fun things that I and my group can all enjoy (Apocalypse, Planetstrike, Planetary Empires, etc.) is a clear bonus.

Finally the idea that GW is *obliged* to run Tournaments for the few hundred people who happen to attend smacks of a sense of entitlement that is grossly out of whack.

If you need a Tournament-centric gaming company, perhaps you should cash out and play on the Magic Pro Tour?

Even if true (and it is a certain amount of speculation on your part!), you realize that's a viewpoint that it going to generate a bit of heat in this topic, right?

**JohnHwangDD**

@Alpharius, I'm fully aware of that possibility. And yes, there are definitely a few minor leaps of faith embedded in my reply.

But then, this topic was designed to generate more heat than light from the OP and the OP's follow-ups, so, no, I'm not worried.

I mean, the Mods are actively letting the OP set the tone with his "/facepalm" antics and other stuff to stoke the fires, and I'm being far less personally antagonistic than that.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Deadshane1 wrote:
JohnHwangDD wrote:Ohh.... Now I like McRib!

Most logical thing you've said in 3 pages!

the only logical thing you've ever said...

and with that, I'm out of this thread.

**Kilkrazy**

If you've got a problem with a /facepalm or something, hit the Alert button.

Even Moderators can't read every single post, despite our superpowers.

**pox**

Deadshane1 wrote:"I'd love to see the tournament scene flounder and die." No you wouldnt, if you love your hobby, you'd want to see it healthy and reaping rewards for GW to ensure their healthy business profile.

I'm curious as to why you think this. Outside of advertising, I'm not sure what tournaments do for GW as a business, and even the advertising benefits seem capricious at best. What I mean is that the tournaments are for established players, and the events don't lend themselves well to introducing new customers to the game.

In addition, the big sellers for GW over the last few years seem more casual oriented, with expansions like Cities of Death, Apocalypse, and Planetstrike. These expansions not only cater to the casual crowd, but they generate huge sales in miniatures and terrain. Because of inherent restrictions to point costs, tournaments do not currently encourage miniature sales on the same scale as "casual gamer" expansions.

I do love my hobby, and want to see it healthy and reaping rewards for GW. My question is this: I'm a casual gamer who does not attend tournaments. How does the current status of the tournament circuit in the US affect me? How does the status of the tournament circuit ensure GW has a health business profile?

I have nothing against tourneys, I'm just wondering about this part of your argument.

**brettz123**

Bottom line is tournaments cost money and probably more money then they bring in. So it makes sense for them to cancel the GTs.

I would suggest, and I am not being sarcastic, that you look into how much it would cost you to actually run a top of the line tournament convention.

Very expensive and very time consuming.

**Deadshane1**

@John

I asked for discussion on the lack of Tournaments this year, thats all. I didnt do it to generate heat, I did it because I'm concerned.

Just because YOU took it as an antagonistic post (Lord knows why) doesnt make it so...you came in gunz a blazing though.

With that said...I'm glad you're out. Maybe the Tourney-goers who this thread was truly targetted at will have something interesting to add.

**Bunker**

Kilkrazy wrote:

Even Moderators can't read every single post, despite our superpowers.

Three of you are participating in the discussion contained this thread, you'd think at least one of you would have read all of it. There's some less than obvious flaming and trolling being done, and the free pass that the individual is getting (and has gotten in the past) is becoming more and more apparent.

On topic though, I agree with Frazzled. It's about time for everyone complaining of lack of "GT-esque" tournaments to put your money where your mouth is. If you want tournaments, start organizing them. He-who-shall-not-be-named is doing it, so why can't other people?

**Alpharius**

You do realize that we're often pulled in many directions here, right?

Just because a Mod posts in the thread, well, sadly, doesn't mean he's read it all!

Most times, I only have time to respond to the Mod Alert in question, with some backtracking to get the lay of the land and all that...

Again, the best way to make sure that a Mod sees something he should see?

The Mod Alert Button.

**Kilkrazy**

Bunker wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:

Even Moderators can't read every single post, despite our superpowers.

Three of you are participating in the discussion contained this thread, you'd think at least one of you would have read all of it. There's some less than obvious flaming and trolling being done, and the free pass that the individual is getting (and has gotten in the past) is becoming more and more apparent.

On topic though, I agree with Frazzled. It's about time for everyone complaining of lack of "GT-esque" tournaments to put your money where your mouth is. If you want tournaments, start organizing them. He-who-shall-not-be-named is doing it, so why can't other people?

If a user gets angry or feels insulted by something, the proper course of action is to click the Alert button, not just hope that a moderator read whatever you want to complain about.

**AgeOfEgos**

Bunker wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:

Even Moderators can't read every single post, despite our superpowers.

Three of you are participating in the discussion contained this thread, you'd think at least one of you would have read all of it. There's some less than obvious flaming and trolling being done, and the free pass that the individual is getting (and has gotten in the past) is becoming more and more apparent.

Agreed, there is certainly some passive/aggressive sentiment in the thread (some of it was aimed at you a page or two back).

**Deadshane1**

I honestly think most of the aggressive posts here were perpetrated by the Tourney haterz....sort of in a "I told you so" context. Anything otherwise is the rest of us just trying to hold discussion. Maybe with a few snyde but well deserved mild retorts.

**Kilkrazy**

IMO that is a line of enquiry best avoided.

Let's all get back on topic.

**Deadshane1**

Kilkrazy wrote:IMO that is a line of enquiry best avoided.

Let's all get back on topic.

Agreed.