Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I don't hate them, but I am not too fond of them.

I have liked Dark Elves for years though, so I'm still not sure why.

Looks like mostly people are neutral. THey either love em or do not care. LOL

Samus666 wrote:
Umm... I think this comes very close to Trolling

We, meaning the royal we here, were asked for our opinion, and we gave it. I dislike Dark Eldar immensely--they're probably my second or third least-liked armies, as a matter of fact. To assume that I should sugarcoat my opinion because some Sensitive Sally might get her knickers in a wad on Dakka, of all places, is really quite silly.

If you like Dark Eldar, bully for you. That's your opinion, and I'm more than happy to let you have it. Heck, go ahead and buy all the Dark Eldar models you want and laugh while you crush my poor helpless Orks with the weight of one million dark lances. Personally, I don't like them for all the reasons I've mentioned, and while I'm not overly upset at their inclusion in 40k, I don't think the universe would be worse off for their loss. I suppose, then, that my position is that of a great, resounding meh, albeit with some negative connotations.

Ultimately, I think the people who are getting offended are choosing to be offended. My intention is not to ruffle feathers, and as such, perhaps I should start including a little smiley at the end of everything I say to show that I am, in fact, smiling, and I'm not trying to be a complete and total jerk. I just do not like Dark Eldar. Go figure.

That said, I've just realized that my four least favorite armies are all the "newest" armies. To whit:

4: Black Templars. I don't dislike them, really. I just don't see why we needed another Marine codex, and if we really needed one, why it had to be some nobody Second Founding Chapter.

3: Dark Eldar. As mentioned above.

2: Tau. Thematically, they clash with much of 40k, and I've yet to be challenged against them. The whole weeabo thing also applies here.

1: Necrons. Boring to paint, boring to build, boring to play against, and boring to play. If given a choice between a friendly game against a Necron player and heading home early, well, the keys are already in the ignition, I dislike playing against them that much. It's a personal thing. Oh, and the C'tan did it.

Like I said, I'm sure there are plenty of people who have excellent Dark Eldar armies and are a blast to play against. I just plain don't like them.

Barkdreg Badtoof said alot of things about Dark Eldar that I pretty much agree with, no need to repeat that. Someone else also talked about Eldar really being all the fantasy elf types rolled into one, which I consider a good thing. Edar aren't nice, and Eldar pirates are nasty enough for 40k piracy. You don't have to throw in the Legend of the Black Pearl curses to make the pirates nasty enough.

However, I would like to throw in another defense of the "Why I don't like Drows in Space" opinion. Mainly it's as follows:

Drow are lame. The Underdark is lame. Drizzt is lame.

To elaborate, I have to start with the whole concept of the Underdark, which is another layer of "really awesome nasty stuff" that gave whoever actually came up with that idea an excuse (a lame one) to make things twice as nasty as the regular thing. From there, we get the Drow who are really-awesome-and-better-in-every-way-than-normal-elves. GWs Dark Elves are actually a bit better than the Drow, simply because they didn't need to invent a whole new plane of existence for them. Sadly, GWs Dark Eldar are a step back to the Drow ancestry, and just bores me immensely.
The constant competition for the baddest and evilest people of the whole galaxy is forcing all the evil races to constantly get either more evil and/or unstoppable. The whole idea of this hidden city inside the hidden and secret area where only Eldar can go is one of the symptoms. Finding out that these hidden and secret Eldar outnumber the actualy Eldar is just making my point for me.

I'm not a big fan of the other evil races who are competing for the "Mostest Evillest" title either, but they all started from some decent idea. The Space Drow didn't.

If you actually read this far, you have my apology for the wall of text.

Option 7: Don't love them. Indifferent, but still want them to have an update of rules and/or models.

I probably won't end up playing them, but they do deserve an update either rules, models or both. Why should we always just get SM or Chaos, before someone says "because they sell better". SM only sell better because they are the race that is promoted the most. If SM was fixed up into two codices (SW is different enough for their own Codex still) they might have had the time to keep the other races up to date.


I agree though, that Ad Mech needs their own Codex as well. They are a seperate empire of humanity simplied allied with the Imperium. If the Imperium is so important, shouldn't Ad Mech have a codex?

glory wrote:Drow are lame. The Underdark is lame. Drizzt is lame.

To elaborate, I have to start with the whole concept of the Underdark, which is another layer of "really awesome nasty stuff" that gave whoever actually came up with that idea an excuse (a lame one) to make things twice as nasty as the regular thing. From there, we get the Drow who are really-awesome-and-better-in-every-way-than-normal-elves. GWs Dark Elves are actually a bit better than the Drow, simply because they didn't need to invent a whole new plane of existence for them. Sadly, GWs Dark Eldar are a step back to the Drow ancestry, and just bores me immensely.
The constant competition for the baddest and evilest people of the whole galaxy is forcing all the evil races to constantly get either more evil and/or unstoppable. The whole idea of this hidden city inside the hidden and secret area where only Eldar can go is one of the symptoms. Finding out that these hidden and secret Eldar outnumber the actualy Eldar is just making my point for me.

I'm not a big fan of the other evil races who are competing for the "Mostest Evillest" title either, but they all started from some decent idea. The Space Drow didn't.

If you actually read this far, you have my apology for the wall of text.

Um...you're mixing your fluff here.

There is no "underdark" in the GW Fantasy Role-Play world. There is no Drizzt in GW fluff. There are no Drow in GW fluff.

In fact, the concept of Dark Elves (Svartalfar) predates both Dungeons and Dragons and Games Workshop, dating from Medieval Scandanavian legend and mythology.

Originally, there were five "alignments" in the GW cosmology: Law, Good, Neutrality, Evil, Chaos. To me, the inclusion of Tau and Dark Eldar are a leaning back towards the alignments of "good" and "evil" that have been absent for so long in the 40K universe. Law (ie, the Imperium) is not "good," and Chaos (the manifestations of the Warp) are not "evil." Their motivations aren't the same.

Also, you mention something about all the armies you hate being the "newer" armies. I have to assume you have been playing for a while, because DE are over 10 years old, for example. The Black Templars are mentioned in the older fluff, too. Really, Tau is the only army that's particularly "new" in your list. Unless, of course, you're an old schooler like me that can remember when there were really only five armies to play.

No offense has been taken over here Mr Badtoof, you have your view, and I respect that.

However, I would say that as the only army without a new codex in 12 years, Dark Eldar are hardly new.

Ketara wrote:However, I would say that as the only army without a new codex in 12 years, Dark Eldar are hardly new.

I'd say they're very new, in fact. The only armies which are truly "newer" than Dark Eldar are Black Templars and Tau.

Sure, they've gone a long while without a Codex update, but I'd be willing to argue that's more a sign of the failure of the Dark Eldar to "catch on" rather than anything else, really.

Ketara wrote:However, I would say that as the only army without a new codex in 12 years, Dark Eldar are hardly new.

Aside from willfully ignoring their update about 6 years ago, sure. This is The Big Lie of the Dark Eldar, and it devalues much of what they complain about. The fact of the matter is that DE were updated. Lightly, and weakly, but they were updated. To ignore this fact is exceptionally disingenuous and untruthful.


Pre-Fall, the Craftworlders and Exodies were a minority of the Eldar civilization. The Fall consumed the overwhelming majority of the non-Craftworld, non-Exodite Eldar. I've always figured that most of the survivors of the Fall would be Craftworlders, Exodites, Crone Worlders, and the Dark Eldar - in that order. And the number of Fallen outnumbers the combined survivors manyfold.

The idea that the Dark Eldar have been multiplying like rabbits (or cockroaches) is a bit strange - are they biologically different such that their stock is appreciably more fertile than Craftworlder or Exodite stock? Because you can bet there is the Path of the Breeder on each Craftworld...

Indeed, we also have possible evidence of Craftworld Eldar population growth: in the entry about Craftworlds it states that they have grown in size since the fall; since you don't expand trading vessels to planet sized behemoths for laughs, I would guess there has been population growth there.

I don't see anything like that from describing the Dark Eldar (though I may have missed it).

One thing though, the 2nd ed Eldar Codex did state that the Exodites are the ones most likely to thrive, so it's possible they're up there compared with the Craftworlders.

IMO the only downsides are the models and the lack of a new codex.

Other than that I really like them.

I would collect an army of DE as my 2nd army if they would give them a proper update. I like the style that the army is done in, even if alot of the models are not good examples of how the style can be expressed.

ATM I'm not a fan of having only a couple viable units, so I'll wait until they are squatted or redone to start my 2nd army (wyches in raiders and warriors in raiders... yay?).

Saldiven wrote:
Um...you're mixing your fluff here.

There is no "underdark" in the GW Fantasy Role-Play world. There is no Drizzt in GW fluff. There are no Drow in GW fluff.

In fact, the concept of Dark Elves (Svartalfar) predates both Dungeons and Dragons and Games Workshop, dating from Medieval Scandanavian legend and mythology.

Originally, there were five "alignments" in the GW cosmology: Law, Good, Neutrality, Evil, Chaos. To me, the inclusion of Tau and Dark Eldar are a leaning back towards the alignments of "good" and "evil" that have been absent for so long in the 40K universe. Law (ie, the Imperium) is not "good," and Chaos (the manifestations of the Warp) are not "evil." Their motivations aren't the same.

Also, you mention something about all the armies you hate being the "newer" armies. I have to assume you have been playing for a while, because DE are over 10 years old, for example. The Black Templars are mentioned in the older fluff, too. Really, Tau is the only army that's particularly "new" in your list. Unless, of course, you're an old schooler like me that can remember when there were really only five armies to play.

My apologies if my text was misleading. As far as I knww, Drow are not a GW invention at all, they're a type of elf native to the D&D Forgotten Realms setting. Specifically, the Underdark. The poll specifically mentioned Drow, so I thought it would be best to explain why I don't like them (Drow, that is, or even Space Drow).

I'm aware that evil elves aren't a new invention, but that's not really relevant in a discussion about liking them. In fact, I even specifically state that I sort of like the Dark Elves of the fantasy setting, for being at least somewhat believable evil elves. As for Chaos not being evil (and the other stuff about alignments), I really can't even begin to disprove a delusion like that.

As for the rest of your post, I think you're confusing me with another poster (Barkdreg Badtoof). I personally don't hate the newer armies, in fact I'm a big fan of the Tau model range. I just think it's silly that a species that counts its domain in star systems (rather than sectors) would be of any actual importance in the events of the galaxy.

I think their fluff is not thought out well at all.

Granted I may be indifferent towards them you have to understand that the guy who got me into the game (early 3rd edition) played Dark Eldar and IG. His Dark Eldar were pretty tame and I think he beat me 2-3 times out of all the games we played. Now after saying that and facing them later on (as a more competitive list) I respect them more. I just need to see something new and I'll probably bite.

Allow me to quote what I said Mr JohnHwangDD.

No 'new codex' in 12 years. Not 'no update'. No 'codex'.

We assume the dark eldar are multiplying, because intially, Dark Eldar were supposed to only live in Commorragh. However, in the latest Eldar codex, it mentions 'vast cities' in the webway. Hence, for there now to be plural where there was once singular, they must be multiplying. It makes sense as well, as Dark Eldar are kind of known for indulging in more gratuitous forms of pleasure a lot more than their strait laced cousins.

We have a few players in the area. They all have the exact same army. I hate gun lines (Especially when tehy're that freaking mobile), but I'd love to see a redo to see what comes out.

@Ketara: OK, if you want to play that game:

My Dogs of War haven't had an published Army Book since mid-1998.

My Dogs of War aren't even listed as an army by GW anymore.

Play what game?

Unlike you John, I'm not gripped by some urge to attempt to make sarcastic, and no doubt highly witty repartee.

You took what I said and changed it. I corrected your mistake. Deal with it. End of discussion.

You're playing word games and boo-hoo games.

Bardrek.. to be honest, everyone else sees them as evil, but i doubt they see themselves as that, so they don't do what they do because 'they are evil' They are described as impulsive and given to instant gratification. Just because said impulses are to kill/maim/torture, doesn't mean they are inherently evil. It actually describes it pretty well in the eldar codex fluff. Bored because they technologically had everything, they gave in to doing w/e the hell they wanted. I imagine if all humans in the imperium did wtf they wanted to do it'd be a far nastier sight than the DE. but thats just speculation..

Also, if any dark eldar raped a human, i'm pretty sure he would be killed outright.. being intimate with a lower race.. seriously..

and how in the world do you know that the eldar shape the universe more than the dark eldar? i believe that most fluff books say that contacts with craftworlders is rare, while raider groups strike pretty much everywhere in the imperium? IMO that's quite a bit more than the craftworld cousins...

Also, if you're woried about getting incriminated because you have dark eldar models, you must be up to something that could get you incriminated? i don't worry about being assumed guilty just because i play a certain WH40k army.. thats just silly... And if you're worried about parents-in-law, seriously, just put them out of sight. How hard is it to pack them up and put them in your closet or under your bed? If they can still find them, they're crazy anyway and it shouldn't matter.

Sadly, a lot of the 40k world doesn't see the really good Dark eldar gamers.. or perhaps they see too many of them... regardless. Even without the fluff, i love the army play style. The only ones who come close are eldar wind hosts and perhaps Speed Freeks, but neither have the flare the DE have, and that's what i really love. If GW does dump the DE they better give me something just as good, or i'm going to be quite put out.

I love the Dark Eldar. Without them they would have to completely overhaul the Eldar story which I rather like, and the DE themselves are just such a fun army. I wish more people were into them.

I wonder if they're so well liked now (as evinced by this poll) because of their underdog status--a kind of faux nostalgia? The fact of the matter is that I'd never bother with them in their current shape, even if I could afford to do so. They are the one 40k army whose codex I don't own and I have several editions of other armies' books. I once noted that to a redshirt who responded "yeah, but you're not missing anything." That said, I'd never wish them out of existence. Rather I wish they'd get caught up along with Necrons and the Inquisition. But, again, I have no interest in playing them myself or even collecting them currently.

Kabal of Night's Wish wrote:Bardrek.. to be honest, everyone else sees them as evil, but i doubt they see themselves as that, so they don't do what they do because 'they are evil' They are described as impulsive and given to instant gratification. Just because said impulses are to kill/maim/torture, doesn't mean they are inherently evil. It actually describes it pretty well in the eldar codex fluff. Bored because they technologically had everything, they gave in to doing w/e the hell they wanted. I imagine if all humans in the imperium did wtf they wanted to do it'd be a far nastier sight than the DE. but thats just speculation.

So you think that somehow killing/raping/plundering because you're bored justifies them being in the whole thing for the evulz?

Kabal of Night's Wish wrote:and how in the world do you know that the eldar shape the universe more than the dark eldar? i believe that most fluff books say that contacts with craftworlders is rare, while raider groups strike pretty much everywhere in the imperium? IMO that's quite a bit more than the craftworld cousins...

To be very, very trite, Second/Third War for Armageddon. The whole Eldrad vs. Abaddon thingy at the end of the 13th Black Parade. What have Dark Eldar done? Oh yeah, they've raided a few worlds that nobody seems to know about because it's not mentioned in the background.

Eldar get screentime. Dark Eldar get ignored. If Dark Eldar were doing something universe-shaping, don't you think they'd get some screen time, too?

Kabal of Night's Wish wrote:Also, if you're woried about getting incriminated because you have dark eldar models, you must be up to something that could get you incriminated? i don't worry about being assumed guilty just because i play a certain WH40k army.. thats just silly... And if you're worried about parents-in-law, seriously, just put them out of sight. How hard is it to pack them up and put them in your closet or under your bed? If they can still find them, they're crazy anyway and it shouldn't matter.

See, here's the thing. My inlaws really wouldn't care one way or the other, nor would they really go out of their way to get this stuff. However, if I were to collect an army of what appears to be bondage fetishists, the people around me would actually wonder why the hell I'd ever be inclined to do so (especially my fiancee, for the record). If I were to show up to a GW store with an army of the Diaznettes with their many, many bewbs proudly painted, I'd expect a few sideways glances. Same goes with the Dark Eldar. Here's my army of half-nude males and females, undressed slaves lounging on ships, and extreme S&M types: accept me as a good person and let me hang around with your kiddies, moms!

so are you stating then that if the models were not 'bondage fetish' you would be more inclined to play them? make some conversions then.. it isn't that hard...

Besides, the army i play with (succesfully) only has one wych squad and i hardly think that they look like bondage models, nor has anyone i've ever talked to made that observation.. I don't make a habit of showing this game off to parents of children.. this is a game of fiction, if people read into you so much about what army you play, it's kind of sad.
One of my friends, who is very laid back, not talkative, and calm, plays bloodthirsty, wild and crazy khorne berzerkers. You can't read too much into people by the army they play...

They should squat just one of the marine variant chapters, just one. Would be pretty funny, i wouldn't even care which one. Black Templars would be the easiest since no one really likes them anyway. The players from that chapter could still play using the space marine codex, and then GW would be immune to criticism of marine favoritism.

jsullivanlaw wrote:They should squat just one of the marine variant chapters, just one.

Black Templars would be the easiest since no one really likes them anyway.

How about Chaos Legions rules?

BT have beautiful plastic bitz, and I'm using them, so I gotta reject that suggestion.

Personally I love the DE. After playing marines for 11 years in a row... they have become a breath of fresh air. The Codex still works... and is still very competitive... but alas, as others have pointed out... with 4 unit selections in 4 Sections of the FOC... (HQ, Elites, Troop and Heavy). That max out at about 2K points... and then you have to start taking the sub-par units (as in bang per pointcost)

Warriors, statswise, are awesome.
Wyches, statswise, are amazing
the HQ's are dirt cheap and decent fighters...
Raiders and Ravagers are light but pack a punch.

I just wish that I could take other units in the list withought feeling that I could definately take somthing better in its place, the concepts for the other models are great.. but they dont execute well on the table. Dont get me wrong I do use the other "underused" units, like mandrakes, or warp beasts, or Reaver Jetbikes. I would just never take them to a tournament.

Cheers!

I find reavers work at tournaments. Wyches used to be where it was at, but these days, under 5th Edition, a properly toold up Archon on jetbike joined to a tooled up jetbike squad is much more flexible than a wych or incubi squad.

agreed ketara. Lord on RJB with punisher and drugs with +1atk reroll misses and +1 str can annihilate just about anyone ^_^