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Kabal of Night's Wish wrote:Lord on RJB with punisher and drugs with +1atk reroll misses and +1 str can annihilate just about anyone ^_^

Except a blob of bog-standard Guardsmen FRFSRFing their Lasguns...

Barkdreg Badtoof wrote:

Kabal of Night's Wish wrote:Also, if you're woried about getting incriminated because you have dark eldar models, you must be up to something that could get you incriminated? i don't worry about being assumed guilty just because i play a certain WH40k army.. thats just silly... And if you're worried about parents-in-law, seriously, just put them out of sight. How hard is it to pack them up and put them in your closet or under your bed? If they can still find them, they're crazy anyway and it shouldn't matter.

See, here's the thing. My inlaws really wouldn't care one way or the other, nor would they really go out of their way to get this stuff. However, if I were to collect an army of what appears to be bondage fetishists, the people around me would actually wonder why the hell I'd ever be inclined to do so (especially my fiancee, for the record). If I were to show up to a GW store with an army of the Diaznettes with their many, many bewbs proudly painted, I'd expect a few sideways glances. Same goes with the Dark Eldar. Here's my army of half-nude males and females, undressed slaves lounging on ships, and extreme S&M types: accept me as a good person and let me hang around with your kiddies, moms!

My local GW store is next to a Goth/bondage fashion shop. So I don't think it'd be as much of a problem, but there is a wall seperating the two.

I fail to see how anyone could argue that a White Dwarf update is even remotely similar to a new codex. I also don't see how DE can be minimized as 'just a bunch of pirates'. The fluff puts them overrunning entire hive worlds for slaves. Thats a pretty big force, and very comparable to what the Necrons are doing in terms of attacking style and threat level.

Dark Eldar would resurface quite well if given the proper attention. Weren't Wood Elves in a similar predicament before they got a new dex a while back?

And to whomever mentioned it earlier, a model riding a reaver jetbike is limited to a 1 hand weapon, and cannot take a punisher.

It's been FAQ'd (i think). You can have a Str 7 Archon now (3 + 1(bike) + 1(punisher) + 1(drug) + 1 animus vitae).

Why is it reaver jetbikes don't increase the rider's armor? In friendly games, I play that it gives the rider a 4+, but there's nothing in the rules to support this.

omg this thread is called why i hate dark eldar and 45% of the people fukn love 'em?Dude no offense but this is an EPIC FAIIIIIIIIL.


I love 'em.



Inflicting pain since '93

the_emperors_renegade wrote:omg this thread is called why i hate dark eldar and 45% of the people fukn love 'em?Dude no offense but this is an EPIC FAIIIIIIIIL.


I love 'em.



Inflicting pain since '93

kuro_khan wrote:I don't actually hate the Dark Eldar, they're my favorite army, but I'm seeing a lot of anti-DE hate on the forums whenever we talk about wanting a new codex. I'm trying to find out why.

PLEASE no flaming . Just trying to understand people.

OP doesn't hate the DE, he just wants to find out why others do.

IntoTheRain wrote:
And to whomever mentioned it earlier, a model riding a reaver jetbike is limited to a 1 hand weapon, and cannot take a punisher.

Jetbike riders are now allowed double handed weapons. It was in one of the latest FAQs.

Therefore you kit out a lord with an animus vitae, combat drugs, shadow field, jetbike, punisher, and tormentor helm. All of a sudden, you have a Lord that has can get six power weapon attacks on the charge at strength 6 with rerolled misses, a 2+ invulnerable save, and a ridiculously high Initiative. He also has a jetbike for fast movement.

Throw him in a squad of 4 jetbikes with 2 blasters, and a reaver succubus with combat drugs, punisher, and tormentor helm, and you have a unit capable of incredibly fast movement around the field, and the capability of trashing whatever unit it is they decide to hit.

I'm not sure if you can give an Archon all of that though, due to wargear limits. Would be awesome to try out though... Still gets insta-killed by Psycannon, with no save, unfortunately... so keep him with people.

Barkdreg made some good points.
The DE fluff is something that I can't follow either.

However, instead of providing a new DE codex, GW could think about an Exodite codex.

I love Dark Eldar. And this poll pretty well shows what I've always suspected: A great many people like them or, at the very least, deem them worthy of a new face. They only don't play them right now because of the models and the extraordinarily bland codex. But most people here recognize that their background has immense potential for a very compelling army.

Then there's the loud but vast minority who deliberately turn a blind eye to the ridiculously unfair way DE have been neglected for as long as they've been around. Those people are the funniest. They'll typically proceed to enthusiastically pedal the most redundant, underwhelming army ideas anybody has ever seen.

And of course there are those who just don't like DE, and I can't fault them because there's nothing wrong with disliking certain armies. I personally can't stand SMs of any flavor. Their models are more ridiculous than DE models imo, despite being 'improved' upon every 6 months. But I'm not stomping around saying crap like 'SWs don't deserve a new codex!' They do deserve a new codex. Please just understand that DE players like myself are getting immensely tired of, well, pretty much any news about new codices. Cause it's never for the army that deserves it most (Dark Eldar )

JohnHwangDD wrote:Pre-Fall, the Craftworlders and Exodies were a minority of the Eldar civilization. The Fall consumed the overwhelming majority of the non-Craftworld, non-Exodite Eldar. I've always figured that most of the survivors of the Fall would be Craftworlders, Exodites, Crone Worlders, and the Dark Eldar - in that order. And the number of Fallen outnumbers the combined survivors many fold.

The population disparity goes to lack of any real hard numbers of how many craft, exodite and crone worlds are there and number of elder on them. During the Fall the craftworlders were doing good just to escape, and none of them knew Vect was able to unite and lead their dark brethren to safety, til long after it happened.

The idea that the Dark Eldar have been multiplying like rabbits (or cockroaches) is a bit strange - are they biologically different such that their stock is appreciably more fertile than Craftworlder or Exodite stock? Because you can bet there is the Path of the Breeder on each Craftworld...

If I remember it right, Dark Eldar don't need spirit stones like the Craftworlderz or Exoditez do for each of their newborns. No angst or any other emo emotions to interfere with the act, thou finding suitable mate(s) to procreate with is about the only hurdle the DE have to face with reproduction. Biologically all of the elder are the same least as far the Elder Harlequin are aware of.


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PanzerSmurf wrote:I think their fluff is not thought out well at all.

A problem not exclusive just to the DE. The whole evil shtick GW done with the DE, Chaos (especially Khorne's faction) and IoM went to the point of caricature, and that's even before the not so minor problem of fluff repeating contradicting itself.

Rubberanvil wrote:The population disparity goes to lack of any real hard numbers of how many craft, exodite and crone worlds are there and number of elder on them. During the Fall the craftworlders were doing good just to escape, and none of them knew Vect was able to unite and lead their dark brethren to safety, til long after it happened.

We do know that the Craftworld population has become bigger though (larger craftworlds than the original ship). We also know how much their activities affect the IoM, which is a lot more than the Dark Eldar do. Also, the Craftworld Eldar send armies (epic size) to battle sometimes, I've never seen Dark Eldar do anything but smaller raids.

Also, in terms of Space capability, I get the impression from BFG that Craftworlders and Corsairs (who are not Dark Eldar but Craftworld outcasts) make the biggest impression of the Eldar forces.

If I remember it right, Dark Eldar don't need spirit stones like the Craftworlderz or Exoditez do for each of their newborns. No angst or any other emo emotions to interfere with the act, thou finding suitable mate(s) to procreate with is about the only hurdle the DE have to face with reproduction. Biologically all of the elder are the same least as far the Elder Harlequin are aware of.

That's not likely to be that much greater in factor; combined with the death rate in Commoragh ad other cities compared with the other Eldar factions and any rate advantage is likely lost (or even behind that of others because of it).

That they are the same species means that their procreation wouldn't be massively different.

Daba wrote: Craftworld Eldar send armies (epic size) to battle sometimes, I've never seen Dark Eldar do anything but smaller raids.

Quite the contrary. Eldar are renowned for using other races to fight their battles. A tactic they much prefer over facing opponents head on which, when they actually do it, it's either defensively, or they do it with as few troops as they can.

Whereas Dark Eldar have been known to aggressively and successfully attack entire planets. P127 of 5th ed rulebook:
"849.M41 All contact is lost with outposts on Birmingham, the Black Planet. Subsequent investigations of the massacre indicate it to be the work of Dark Eldar Raiders.
891.M41 The Long Midnight. The worlds of the Persya sector suffer countless attacks from Eldar Pirates. (aka Dark Eldar) Using ancient technology, the raiders swathe their targets in utter darkness (DE technology) and then pillage and slaughter at will. The vicious raids continue for half a year until Imperial Praxion arrives to drive off the raiders.
920.M41 Eldar pirates (aka Dark Eldar) attack the troopship Emperor's Faithful as it exits Warp space in the Thanas system. The ship is boarded and then disappears, (DE technology) taking with it a complement of 5,000,000 Imperial Guardsmen and 200,000 men of the Imperial Navy.
978999.M41 Dark Eldar raiders cripple the Imperial Navy's moorings at Bakka."

If I remember it right, Dark Eldar don't need spirit stones like the Craftworlderz or Exoditez do for each of their newborns. No angst or any other emo emotions to interfere with the act, thou finding suitable mate(s) to procreate with is about the only hurdle the DE have to face with reproduction. Biologically all of the elder are the same least as far the Elder Harlequin are aware of.

That's not likely to be that much greater in factor; combined with the death rate in Commoragh ad other cities compared with the other Eldar factions and any rate advantage is likely lost (or even behind that of others because of it).
That they are the same species means that their procreation wouldn't be massively different.

No indeed, though Commorragh most definitely has a higher death rate, I think the nature of the DE says it also has a much higher birth rate. They're not dinosaurs who eat their own young... Think of it like a SoCal ghetto. Not a great place for kids, yet plenty of kids grow up there nonetheless.

Hmm.. Dark Eldar kinda remind me of Mindflayers.

Very advanced race, slave-reliant, and "eat" their slaves when they get hungry.

Mindflayer/Illithid, for you fake geeks out there (play Warhammer, but not D&D? Shame)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illithid

I love my DE, first army I have owned. The playstyle is unique vs other armies.

Seems to be alot of love for the DE here and a few bitter players who probably lost to DE.

kuro_khan wrote:I'm not sure if you can give an Archon all of that though, due to wargear limits. Would be awesome to try out though... Still gets insta-killed by Psycannon, with no save, unfortunately... so keep him with people.

Replace the Jetbike with a Skyboard and you can get it all bar the Aminus Vitae; which, frankly, if you feel lucky, you can use combat drugs to get the exact same effects =D Also, thanks to the Skyboard, the Archon gets +1 to his armour save (I have no idea how being on a floating skateboard improves your armour...), just in case the shadow field ever fails.

Sir, there's no way I can hate Dark Eldar.

i really like the DE fluff. and their whole play style and everything.

they would without a doubt be my next army once ive got everything else made and painted, IF and only if GW were to update them. people say they might get squatted because not enough people play DE. but im sure, given new models that dont look crap and a competitive codex, the number of DE players would skyrocket

Daba wrote:
We do know that the Craftworld population has become bigger though (larger craftworlds than the original ship). We also know how much their activities affect the IoM, which is a lot more than the Dark Eldar do. Also, the Craftworld Eldar send armies (epic size) to battle sometimes, I've never seen Dark Eldar do anything but smaller raids.

Er..DE raids have been known to take entire hive worlds back as slaves.

Think of them as similar in size and style to the Necron Raider fleets that have started harvesting the living.

I would love a new codex. I like the models, but I wouldn't complain if they were redone. As long as I dont have to get a buncha new raiders or something haha. I kind of like playing a niche army though, and I would kind of hate it if a buncha new people start up the DARK ELDAHHH-R! NYAAA WE WILL FEAST UPON YOUR SOULS FILTHY HUMANS!

On second thought, nevermind. Nothing could topple the oh-so-popular Space Marines and as long as new codices come out for them, I dont think "too many dark eldar" could ever be a problem haha!

I wouldn't mind a few more Dark Eldar players though... It'll give my splinter weapons something to do. Most of the time they don't do crap, and just leave my agonizers and disintegrators to do all the heavy lifting.

Nelson wrote:I dont think "too many dark eldar" could ever be a problem haha!

If the new codex is done right, it could very well be a problem.

Archonate wrote:

Nelson wrote:I dont think "too many dark eldar" could ever be a problem haha!

If the new codex is done right, it could very well be a problem.

Probably not too bad. A lot of players look at all the 5+ armor saves and the armor 10 open topped vehicles and scoff. A lot of people don't like their units dying, even if taking more fragile stuff is better tactically. That's why there are so many space marine players. If necrons were good at assault they would probably be ultra popular.

i really don't care, don't see anything wrong with them...they're just a bit boring

BAN wrote:i really don't care, don't see anything wrong with them...they're just a bit boring

Because murdering, pitiless, soul-drinkers who take pleasure in pain and debauchery...are so boring.

I like them, obviously as a Druchii fan it was a nice extension of warhammer ideals when they where introduced.

However if you asked me would I rather have Exodite Eldar or true Chaos Eldar (they still exsist right? sometimes get lost on GW retcons) then I'd wave bye bye to the Dark Eldar in a heartbeat.

But as those two are unlikely to ever happen, then aye, Keep the Dark Eldar coming.

I like the concept not the execution.

Every time I play the Dark Eldar the only things that hold up the army are the special rules. It feels gamey, unfinished and I think makes sham of some of the 40k rules. If your army isnt a 4 base statline, with good armor and some sort of exception rule to escape the issues of morale your just a B army.

To make the dark Eldar able to even have a chance they got a collection of unique excpetion rules that are outdated, gimmicky and irritating:

Combat Drugs
Grotesques
Shadow Field
Haemonclus Morale Shooter
Wych CC abilities
Agonizers
Portals
Mandrake Shade Stealth
Nightshields
Telos Scatter Fire
Drug Dispensers

Basically if the army can't go strait into melee turn 1, or from off table through portals, and use it's "special rules" there it looses. It's an irritating mess of outdated rules and custom rule sillyness that's aproaching the Orks on the "needs-a-redo-o-meter". Keeping track of all the combat drugs bonuses is just a flat out pain.

I also don't like the army much:

No Tanks?
No Closed topped vehicles?
No Walkers?

...and it is filled with so many obvious stinker units no one ever plays, they weren't even good ideas when they were original...? (Or particularly good models in many cases either)

Heavy weapon troops with jump packs?
Beast Handlers
Skyboard Riders
Grotesques
Mandrakes
Talos

Plus 5th edition gave away all their unique racial wargear, that wasn't so hard to understand:

"turboboost"
"Plasma Grenades (strike at I)"

...to every army in the game, and 5th killed them with TLOS and AP1 + 1. so easy to wreck their vehicles now...

It's a neat concept but it needs a redux in a severe way!

EDIT: PS I voted "other" because I hate them for essentially obsolete rules.

Their fluff is watery at best all mysterious background and stuff, some people get into that but not me. I'd rather read about how awesome they are now or how cool they used to be than read a hundred pages of well no one really knows or they dissappear without a trace. at least the craftworlds are said to exist diffinitively, the DE home is just out there maybe...

Their rules are pretty generic now days, they haven't been properly updated in half a decade which is really GW's fault. Couple that with the fact they really have no particularly awesome hooks in regard to game mechanics and they are about like fighting regular eldar with a more stabby bits...

Their players are a bit fanatical and sometimes a bit whiney, (my brother plays them which is likely where i get this interpretation) there have been way to many DE players complaining they are gonna get Squatted, actually heard less complaints from squat players when the squats got squatted on...

Drow in general I have a problem with, this is a key elitist gamer thing I always get into fights over. Dark Elves ok, Drow stupid. the whole lets slap dark skins on something and make it a complately seperate species just gets me fire up. Dark Eldar should have been one of the sub sects of Eldar allong with Biel Tan and the lot, each of them should have been differentiated more like the differant SM chapters. But no they add them as a new race and then neglect the subgroups of eldar and later neglect the Dark Eldar too. not the best idea in my oppinion...

The biggest problem I have though is their models, when you find the exceedingly rare ones that are out there they all seem kinda... pathetic. Some of the metal ones are cool looking but all of them seem stupid once they get painted. Their most common paint scheme is black on black on black with a touch of silver and blue, it sounds like it could be cool but then you realize it kills any detail, i've seen maybe 2 well painted DE units, units mind you never a whole army. Maybe thats because their rare, maybe thats because the older figs lacked really super detail to start, or maybe its because I know some really bad painters (like my brother) regardless I just think they look lame...

and now let the argument commence...

dynath wrote:Their fluff is watery at best all mysterious background and stuff, some people get into that but not me. I'd rather read about how awesome they are now or how cool they used to be than read a hundred pages of well no one really knows or they dissappear without a trace. at least the craftworlds are said to exist diffinitively, the DE home is just out there maybe...

Their rules are pretty generic now days, they haven't been properly updated in half a decade which is really GW's fault. Couple that with the fact they really have no particularly awesome hooks in regard to game mechanics and they are about like fighting regular eldar with a more stabby bits...

Their players are a bit fanatical and sometimes a bit whiney, (my brother plays them which is likely where i get this interpretation) there have been way to many DE players complaining they are gonna get Squatted, actually heard less complaints from squat players when the squats got squatted on...

Drow in general I have a problem with, this is a key elitist gamer thing I always get into fights over. Dark Elves ok, Drow stupid. the whole lets slap dark skins on something and make it a complately seperate species just gets me fire up. Dark Eldar should have been one of the sub sects of Eldar allong with Biel Tan and the lot, each of them should have been differentiated more like the differant SM chapters. But no they add them as a new race and then neglect the subgroups of eldar and later neglect the Dark Eldar too. not the best idea in my oppinion...

The biggest problem I have though is their models, when you find the exceedingly rare ones that are out there they all seem kinda... pathetic. Some of the metal ones are cool looking but all of them seem stupid once they get painted. Their most common paint scheme is black on black on black with a touch of silver and blue, it sounds like it could be cool but then you realize it kills any detail, i've seen maybe 2 well painted DE units, units mind you never a whole army. Maybe thats because their rare, maybe thats because the older figs lacked really super detail to start, or maybe its because I know some really bad painters (like my brother) regardless I just think they look lame...

and now let the argument commence...

If every damn marine chapter can have it's own codex i think eldar can have two... At least they don't ride giant wolves. Especially when DE are entirely different than the craft worlders. DE do not play like Craft world eldar. They have many many more vehicles but much easier to kill their vehicles. They have far more firepower but far less staying power. I love the dark eldar fluff. Fate worse than death anyone? I think the dark eldar are great army for hobbiests as well. They do have a lot of ugly units... I think the vehicles are just fine though. For the ugly models you can be creative and convert stuff from fantasy. I mean there are like a bazillion different kind of elf models out there from fantasy to use. Even for the hobby-challenged, it isn't that hard to put a gun on a witch elf.

dynath wrote:Their fluff is watery at best all mysterious background and stuff, some people get into that but not me. I'd rather read about how awesome they are now or how cool they used to be than read a hundred pages of well no one really knows or they dissappear without a trace. at least the craftworlds are said to exist diffinitively, the DE home is just out there maybe...

The reason of why they are so mysterious is that they do not have a hundred pages of anything. The existing codex (I own both versions) has like 2 pages of fluff + short stories. Of course they are mysterious, they barely have official fluff. Even the 5th Edition rulebook has a longer text on fluff than that codex. If a good codex would be developed, they would lose automatically that halo of ¿twilight? and would become much better known. And that would be great. But it hasn't been written yet, so we don't know anything. This reply was endorsed by Captain Obvious!

jsullivanlaw wrote:They should squat just one of the marine variant chapters, just one. Would be pretty funny, i wouldn't even care which one. Black Templars would be the easiest since no one really likes them anyway. The players from that chapter could still play using the space marine codex, and then GW would be immune to criticism of marine favoritism.

Come on, if they squat BTs and DE... Damn, my third army are SoB... I would move inmediatly to Infinity.