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Dal'yth Dude wrote:

Green Blow Fly wrote:The reply stating the special units can be easily replaced is a total load of bullocks. I was talking to some my BA mates and they all agreed. Total bullocks.

G

I guess that makes it true.

This is exactly what I wanted to say before I read Dal'yth Dude his reply. How do your BA mates agreeing make it true?

Anyway, Blood Angels are as different from Ultra Marines as Ulthwe are from Biel-Tan, or as Emperor's Children are from World Eaters. You are just pissed off because some people actually think your not so original (as in: almost the same as Ultra Marines) army shouldn't get it's own Codex, but instead be part of one big Space Marine Codex. I totally understand you for wanting a seperate Codex for your Blood Angels, but don't go screaming bs like all Xenos races being as much a like as the Space Marine Chapters are. As a final question to you: did you support the vanishing of the Eldar Craftworlds Codex?

Yeah I missed that about the ironclad but let's be real, it's just not the same thing as a venerable Furisio Death Company dreadnaught.

If you want to go all LC with your termies then good for you. I was just pointing out why I take one thunder hammer. I run Dante and Corbulo so my termies have furious charge and preferred enemy... 16 lightning claw S5 attacks that reroll hits and wounds has always got the job done for me... It's wicked really.

G

I know, its cheaper

I just rather use the BA PDF since it makes alot more CC orientated builds possible.

Im more of a mephiston fan than dante
I tend to throw him with the DC and let him hack through units, or, ill send him against the off MC thats wandering about.

I used to run Mephiston all the time with Corbulo and DC. He is even more of a monster with furious charge. He is notched down a bit though in fifth with the nerfs to fnp and all these crazy eternal warriors running around now.

G

I know mate, but its not hard to lure a fex out of synapse.

Lets face it, the fex has to try and hit him 1st lol, yes, it will wound when he does, but whats 1 wound gone?
He will slice the fex apart pretty easily.
Also, since he has all 3 powers i can make sure he gets D3 extra attacks, then use wings of sanguinius to launch him into a unit

I just dont find much use for dante really, i find he lacks punch unless he is with a nice big unit and they have the chapter banner.

Dante gives everybody within 12" preferred enemy. He's a force multiplier plus he has the BS5 meltagun for tank busting. I love Mephiston but he is going to bounce against some units. If you play PS you can take Dante, Mephiston and Corbulo!

G

Great, take all 3 and what else can you take?

The BS5 MG isnt really needed.
Ive got enough anti-tank that i dont need him bouncing about.
I can quite happily play against land raider spam and not have to worry about what ill use to kill them.

Also, dante will struggle against most MC's, as upgraded fex's will ID him without a problem.
Meph can simply lose a wound, allthough, i dont see the fex getting any attacks in at any point.

Have been tempted from time to time to take GK allies, but ive never gone into the rules, so not sure how to go about it.
Lets face it, BA allways get outnumbered, might aswell make that a little worse and get some more hard hitting CC troops that can provide covering fire.

I thought Mephiston is not immune to instant death. Fexes are S10. Those T7 5W fexes can be a problem if you get too close. I also like that Dante has Rites of Battle, it really helps a lot.

G

Fexes are S9 mate, only with an upgrade are they S10
So the basic barbed fex or screamer killer are fair game as meph is T5

Also, if they are out of synapse its just a case of ID them with a force wep.
Failing that, slog it out with the fex as it continues to miss.

Im just not a dante fan, i only used to run him with lem in an all jump inf. army.
Since then i just havent found a good enough use for him.

That is fine I just think he is a better choice in 5th. YMMV.

G

I do think Blood Angels need a Codex. But not just yet. I say this as a Blood angels player who loathes the current Codex. Ok, so it's a .pdf, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Ok, so it's a terrible Codex, but it's not the worst. Plus, it's a lot more recent than Dark Eldar, Necrons, Inquisition etc. And I think Gw need to shift their focus away from the Imperium a bit, and bring back variant Codexes for some other armies before updating another Marines variant.
BA could do with an update -- I'd love for them to get the Space Wolves treatment -- but it shouldn't be their turn yet, or for a long time.

I remember over on the B&C BA forum when the new nilla codex came out... A lot of BA players were upset since they did not get the nice 3+ SS... not that BA even use SS that much. So there was a big stink and a lot of players decided to play red Marines using the nilla codex. Within a month the vast majority of them came back to the PDF codex... They missed their DC, Furisios, veteran assault Marines and Baal predators. All of a sudden the nice stormshields were no longer such a big deal anymore.

When i go to tournaments I always see a good number of BA armies present, they obviously aren't as popular as nilla Marines but I see a lot more BA as compared to Dark Angels, Templars and even the new puppies. I play all over central Florida so I'm talking about a large number of stores.

G

I was a Dark Angel player and I switched to the normal codex when it came out for quite a while. What I ended up doing was going back to the 3rd edition DA mini-dex on top of the 5th ed SM codex (it took a little tweeking since the new SM codex has no armoury) all my friends I play with are fine with that. I don't even know where my 4th edition DA codex is, but who cares that codex is garbage, at least the blood angel codex, such as it is, is playable

Currently they do others
Imperial Codex
Xenos Codex
Imperial Codex
Xenos Codex
Imperial Codex
So what would be next?

9/10 times when i play BA i take Dante/BrotherC. The ability to turn VAS into Str5 Int5 with PE is fairly amazing and should not be underestimated.

It's a lot better than Mephiston in my opinion. Sure Mephiston is a killing but one shot from a railgun and his goose is cooked. Heck even a dreadnaught can toast him. With Dante and Corbs you get a lot more attacks that for the most part are as good as what Mephiston offers. Mephiston is a monster no doubt about it but he lacks an invulnerable save. You are paying close to the same amount of points as Abbadon.

Whether people feel BA don't deserve their own codex just yet doesn't really matter as it is already written and scheduled for release in 2010.

G

Just because the codex is being done, that doesn't mean we can't discuss if it should be done.

On the subject of unique units, only one is really unique: Death Company. All the others could have been shoe-horned into Codex: Space Marines with ease. Furioso involves giving the Dread an option for a second CC weapon. The Honor Guard would involve giving Command Squads the option for Jump Packs (which is a curious omission, they did give them the option for bikes). The Assault Marines as troops could have been tacked onto Dante or some other special character. Someof the Special Characters would have been dropped, but only three are that popular anywho.

I have to disagree and think you are missing the point. BA have been around for a long long time are still a very popular army. Like I said a lot of BA players experimented with red Marines but quickly came back to BA. if you think it's an easy solution that just tells me you don't understand BA, their rules and their background. It's not as simple as making a special character that gives everyone furious charge and a jump pack for free. BA are very unique as compared to nilla Marines.

G

This does bring a good point, is the furiosio dread being removed entirely? After all the ironclad dread IS better. And the idea of a death company Ironclad makes my pants sticky.

Green Blow Fly wrote:I have to disagree and think you are missing the point. BA have been around for a long long time are still a very popular army. Like I said a lot of BA players experimented with red Marines but quickly came back to BA. if you think it's an easy solution that just tells me you don't understand BA, their rules and their background. It's not as simple as making a special character that gives everyone furious charge and a jump pack for free. BA are very unique as compared to nilla Marines.

G

Obviously when you put it all in one big Space Marine Codex, they aren't going to be exactly the same. However, this was the case for the Eldar Craftworlds as well. Where is my Ranger Disruption Table for the Alaitoc and how do I build the large Seer Council that was allowed for an Ulthwe army? Not to mention my Fire Dragons being Troops choices for my Biel-Tan. Games Workshop have done it before, and because this would involve your army, you are against it. I totally understand that, but that doesn't mean I don't think BA (and all other SM Chapters) should be in one big Space Marine codex. As it is now, all those Space Marine Chapters take way to much time from Games Workshop. It's bad enough that Space Marines get the 'always first to be updated after a new edition' treatment, we don't need Space Marines version II, version III, version IV and version V taking up all other release slots. There are armies that need an update a lot more then version III of the Space Marines Codex does.

Oh Lord no one cares about your precious eldar craftworlds. Start another thread so you can cry elsewhere.

G

Anything that individualised armies is surely a good thing for the game in general. Individualisation of the Marines, Chaos and Eldar... stopping the repeatative lists I seem to face week in week out at the GW store Therefore I equally desire/welcome all codexes of the non-vanilla kind!

How much work does it really take to edit a codex? I think there should be one for everything, every craftworld, every ork klan, every chaos chapter. I mean couldn't you just pay some very enthusiastic fans to scrape together known canon (assuming GW hasn't done it), and add some new freshness, add game enhancing characteristics, and bam! I know I over simplified the process, but seriously, what have they been doing year to year? Unless their creative teams is just 4 people....

Green Blow Fly wrote:Oh Lord no one cares about your precious eldar craftworlds. Start another thread so you can cry elsewhere.

G

This is exactly why you are a hypocrite. Eldar Craftworlds shouldn't get seperate Codici, while Space Marine Chapters should. At least be a man and admit the only reason you don't want BA stacked into the Space Marine Codex is because you play them yourself.

And for the record, I don't want Eldar to get seperate Craftworld Codici, I just want them to design the Eldar army list in such a way that it is possible to play the Craftworld armies (so 1 Eldar Codex for all Craftworlds, just like there should be 1 Space Marine Codex for all Chapters).

Blood Angels have always had their own codex, AoD being shared with DA. Please don't try to say now that you don't want a Craftworld codex... You're so funny!

G

Airmaniac wrote:This is exactly why you are a hypocrite. Eldar Craftworlds shouldn't get seperate Codici, while Space Marine Chapters should. At least be a man and admit the only reason you don't want BA stacked into the Space Marine Codex is because you play them yourself.

And for the record, I don't want Eldar to get seperate Craftworld Codici, I just want them to design the Eldar army list in such a way that it is possible to play the Craftworld armies (so 1 Eldar Codex for all Craftworlds, just like there should be 1 Space Marine Codex for all Chapters).

Well said.

Each codex should cover all derivitives of the armies described by the codex. So, all the SM chapters should be in one SM codex, all the IG should be in one IG codex, all the chaos forces (daemons and CSM etc) should be in one chaos codex.

You don't see a seperate codex for each chaos god, or each notable regiment/planetry army in the IG codex, and as has been pointed out the Eldar can't even play half their fluffy builds any more, let alone get each craftoworld in their own individual book.

It's not going to happen. If that were so it would already be the case. In fact GW could just make two big books... One for the forces of order and the other for the forces of disorder. You can then argue which book armies like the Tau should appear in.

G

They could put all the army lists into the main rule book if they really wanted to.

The main reason that they maintain certain army lists seperately from the main army codexes is because they know there is enough interest in "group x" of "army y" to sell a whole load of extra rule books aside from the main "army y" book.

I am sure that if Tau were the main selling army GW had out, they would probably get "Codex Tau" and "Codex Farsight" or some such.

However, the splitting of what is essentially the same army like this, while it makes money, is a pain in the bum for all concerned. Rather than keeping all the rules together so that you don't need to keep flicking between books (and have to buy extra books from the start) and thus making it easier to play and build different variations of "army y" into "groups a, b and c", you then have to go out and buy the codex for group a, group b and group c seperately from the army x book, which is just stupid.

Keeping them apart also just means that the majority of people will just stick with the same old bland and boring armies that are represented in the main army book. Why spend another £20 on a mini-dex when you can play the majority of the SM chapters out there with the main army book?

Including all the chapters under one roof (even if you literally keep them in seperate sections within the main dex) will encorage diversity right from the start.

Jervis doesn't write codices anymore, you may have noticed.

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:Blood Angels have always had their own codex, AoD being shared with DA. Please don't try to say now that you don't want a Craftworld codex... You're so funny!

G

Me being funny sure is a good argument from your point of view isn't it?

Can you please explain to me why you are not a hypocrite for thinking the Craftworlds Eldar Codex was not needed while seperate Codici for several SM Chapters are necessary?

What I am seeing is that if tomorrow every race came out, then they announced that next month Codex: Marine Chapter X came out they will still be complaining about how all of the Space Marine Love.