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rogueeyes wrote:
Exactly. Except for the fact that there's not nearly enough Grey Knights to go around. Grey Knights are definitely one of the most enjoyable pieces of fluff. Although shrouded in darkness and few knowing who they are the chapter fights to defend against the worst of the worst. The entire time they know that they will never be celebrated like many other chapters such as the Ultramarines are.

That's kind of the point? They're meant to be a force that travels around and only shows up to take down the single biggest Daemonic force during an incursion.

They're not meant to go around smiting every evil that raises its head. They're the great equalizer whenever a Hive World suddenly has a great big Warp Rift opened in it or when a Daemon takes possession of a Sector Governor.

rogueeyes wrote:Except for the fact that there's not nearly enough Grey Knights to go around.

Actually, Grey Knights are one of the biggest, if not the biggest space marine chapter out there. At ~3000 man strong, they're 3 times the size of a regular Codex Astartes chapter like the Ultramarines.

Redemption wrote:

rogueeyes wrote:Except for the fact that there's not nearly enough Grey Knights to go around.

Actually, Grey Knights are one of the biggest, if not the biggest space marine chapter out there. At ~3000 man strong, they're 3 times the size of a regular Codex Astartes chapter like the Ultramarines.

Where did you read that? Just curious. I'm also not down with power-armored Grey Knights because I roll 2nd edition.

The 3000 number is from Lexicanum. Don't know where they found it though.
And there are no Power Armour Grey Knights, only Artificer Armour Grey Knights. You can think of them as mini-termies

Kanluwen wrote:

rogueeyes wrote:
Exactly. Except for the fact that there's not nearly enough Grey Knights to go around. Grey Knights are definitely one of the most enjoyable pieces of fluff. Although shrouded in darkness and few knowing who they are the chapter fights to defend against the worst of the worst. The entire time they know that they will never be celebrated like many other chapters such as the Ultramarines are.

That's kind of the point? They're meant to be a force that travels around and only shows up to take down the single biggest Daemonic force during an incursion.

They're not meant to go around smiting every evil that raises its head. They're the great equalizer whenever a Hive World suddenly has a great big Warp Rift opened in it or when a Daemon takes possession of a Sector Governor.

The current Daemonhunters book actually gives a list of reasons why the Daemonhunters would fight anything but Chaos, with fun stuff like the Eldar Avatar being a daemon, Orkz being led by a possessed Warboss, etc. I believe the reason they would fight Tyranids is because of the Hive Mind presence, but I can't remember the exact reasoning.

Scottywan82 wrote:Where did you read that? Just curious. I'm also not down with power-armored Grey Knights because I roll 2nd edition.

Again, I'd have to check, but I'm pretty sure that's in the current Daemonhunters codex.

For me problem with allied lists has always been that GW specifically calls out unit names. They don't say "add any single IG Troop" they instead say "add an Armored Fist Squad"... that doesn't exist now... nice.

I think they should just make the book a one way system. You either take the Inq book and play it 100% from that book, or you play another army and are allowed to add a squad or two from the Inq book. This kills the inducting fluff, but GW can't keep up with all other other codexes as it is.

bhsman wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

rogueeyes wrote:
Exactly. Except for the fact that there's not nearly enough Grey Knights to go around. Grey Knights are definitely one of the most enjoyable pieces of fluff. Although shrouded in darkness and few knowing who they are the chapter fights to defend against the worst of the worst. The entire time they know that they will never be celebrated like many other chapters such as the Ultramarines are.

That's kind of the point? They're meant to be a force that travels around and only shows up to take down the single biggest Daemonic force during an incursion.

They're not meant to go around smiting every evil that raises its head. They're the great equalizer whenever a Hive World suddenly has a great big Warp Rift opened in it or when a Daemon takes possession of a Sector Governor.

The current Daemonhunters book actually gives a list of reasons why the Daemonhunters would fight anything but Chaos, with fun stuff like the Eldar Avatar being a daemon, Orkz being led by a possessed Warboss, etc. I believe the reason they would fight Tyranids is because of the Hive Mind presence, but I can't remember the exact reasoning.

Er, what's the point of this statement?

They wanted to give you potential storyline "hooks", with the vast majority of them being aimed at an Inquisitor and his personal army--not the Grey Knights themselves.

Things like a rogue Inquisitor deciding that a Space Marine Chapter is corrupted by a trophy of some kind they got from fighting Chaos, or the Tau would be fought by Daemonhunters potentially because of the Tau giving aid to a rogue Psyker.

It was by no means "The Grey Knights would do this in this situation with X army because of Y".

Kanluwen wrote:
Er, what's the point of this statement?

They wanted to give you potential storyline "hooks", with the vast majority of them being aimed at an Inquisitor and his personal army--not the Grey Knights themselves.

Things like a rogue Inquisitor deciding that a Space Marine Chapter is corrupted by a trophy of some kind they got from fighting Chaos, or the Tau would be fought by Daemonhunters potentially because of the Tau giving aid to a rogue Psyker.

It was by no means "The Grey Knights would do this in this situation with X army because of Y".

Maybe the inquisitor put his rubber stamp on the request for the GK to go do the dirty work and then went to do something else while they fought it out without him? From what I remember, little if anything on that page ever specifically said "Inquisitors Motive List" on it. It's no more unbelievable than watching two supposedly loyalist Space Marine armies fight it out. Or that the Necrons and Blood Angels ally briefly in the fluff of the new codex. Or for that matter, how I've personally dealt with over 1000 ultramarines total. Sigh.

Why does everyone think that just because the Necrons and Blood Angels fought together for one battle that it meant they allied?

Fighting on the same battlefield and ignoring each other does not an alliance make.

But yeah. The whole "Hurf! Loyalist v. Loyalist!" thing irks me too. It's why I generally try to do campaign games with a lengthy storyline which would explain things like that.

Kanluwen wrote:
Er, what's the point of this statement?

They wanted to give you potential storyline "hooks", with the vast majority of them being aimed at an Inquisitor and his personal army--not the Grey Knights themselves.

Things like a rogue Inquisitor deciding that a Space Marine Chapter is corrupted by a trophy of some kind they got from fighting Chaos, or the Tau would be fought by Daemonhunters potentially because of the Tau giving aid to a rogue Psyker.

It was by no means "The Grey Knights would do this in this situation with X army because of Y".

We're discussing justifications for why a Grey Knight army would be running around and fighting stuff, and I thought I'd toss that in to help the discussion along?

Not to mention not all Inquisitors take to the field, and can use the Grey Knights under his temporary command to do the fighting.

Er, Grey Knights aren't "under the command" of Inquisitors.

Nor are any other form of Adeptus Astartes--unless they choose to be.

Grey Knights have their own complete command structure, and answer only to their Grandmasters--unless they feel like answering to an Inquisitor.

H.B.M.C. wrote:You are not alone Havoc. There seems to be more of us popping out of the woodwork with nothing but dread for this Codex.

Havoc13 wrote:As a INQ player that doesn't use GK or sister I hope these rumors are just that. I like my Inq with retinue and all stormtroopers.

I have 2250pts of pure Inq.
No sisters or GKs
I seriously hope these are just rumours and not facts.
) :

I said it with the IG codex and I'll say it here:

Inquisitors would have been a friggin' great HQ choice for the IG Codex. Having an Inquisitor as HQ allowing things like Stormtroopers as Troops, orbital bombardments, etc would've been great.

And even better?
It would have allowed for "pure" Sisters/Grey Knights/Deathwatch codexes.

I may dance an actual jig once Inquisitors w/psychic hoods and Mystics are gone for good. Note that I'll hate seeing players' Daemonhunter armies get messed up, but I really think the game will be better without that unit allying to everything in sight.

@Kanluwen: There was a shadowy rumor about an allies supplement/codex on Warseer not long ago. It's probably nothing, but it would create a spot for Inquisitors, Assassins, and maybe some interesting other options as well as answer why Inquisitors didn't land in the most obvious place for them (Codex: IG).

I think that would be an ideal solution. I'm not opposed to allies, per se...I just think they need to handled in a balanced and very structured way.

I personally don't use any stormtroopers in my DH army simply because they didn't go with the theme I wanted. I wanted powerful troops and specialist elite choices (Sisters Repentia ). I built it as a somewhat fluff type list that only works in specific scenarios. If I need a more flexible army I have Tau, Daemons, and Orks to choose from. I do however see how they can be a very viable troop choice over GK since they cost much less and can be customized to fit a needed role better than "heres your big gun or heavy flamer".

gorgon wrote:I may dance an actual jig once Inquisitors w/psychic hoods and Mystics are gone for good. Note that I'll hate seeing players' Daemonhunter armies get messed up, but I really think the game will be better without that unit allying to everything in sight.

@Kanluwen: There was a shadowy rumor about an allies supplement/codex on Warseer not long ago. It's probably nothing, but it would create a spot for Inquisitors, Assassins, and maybe some interesting other options as well as answer why Inquisitors didn't land in the most obvious place for them (Codex: IG).

I think that would be an ideal solution. I'm not opposed to allies, per se...I just think they need to handled in a balanced and very structured way.

I'm sure that the allies option will be gone, and good riddance. On the other hand you should expect the new codices to have equally powerful and/or annoying options
Honestly, I like the concept of the mystics. Anti-deepstriking is an interesting mechanic, but it was poorly designed and ended up being ridiculously good/a no-brainer for tournaments and Apocalypse. I hope something similar, but more limited, makes a return in the new codex.

There's not really any rumors about an Inquisition book; it was suggested by various posters that the Inquisition could either become its own codex or that GW would make an Allies book usable by every army.

Edit: As for the whole fluff debate, there's something really, really simple that should never be forgotten: Gameplay > Fluff.
When the two can be reconciled, great. But if there's an issue then gameplay takes precedence.

It's why you can field special characters (and have them die but pop back up nice and shiny for the next battle), have loyalist armies fight loyalist armies, etc.
It's also why it's possible for an entire army of Grey Knights to go around kicking the butts of non-chaos/daemon armies.

Kanluwen wrote:Er, Grey Knights aren't "under the command" of Inquisitors.

Nor are any other form of Adeptus Astartes--unless they choose to be.

Grey Knights have their own complete command structure, and answer only to their Grandmasters--unless they feel like answering to an Inquisitor.

Not to derail this any further, but if there's a mission being undertaken, an Inquisitor is usually given overall command, and directs the actions of the Grey Knights assigned to the mission.

What I haven't seen: What happens to the Inq. Stormies?

bhsman wrote:At least we can rely on you to use any topic as an opportunity to let everyone know that you think GW is run by comic book villains. You're ALL consistency.

Buzz off numbskull.

A company wanting to make money isn't a conspiracy.

JohnHwangDD wrote:What I haven't seen: What happens to the Inq. Stormies?

No one knows. There is zero information about them at this time.

Vhalyar wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:What I haven't seen: What happens to the Inq. Stormies?

No one knows. There is zero information about them at this time.

And that isn't a good thing. One hopes that "zero information" doesn't translate into "zero units".

JohnHwangDD wrote:What I haven't seen: What happens to the Inq. Stormies?

I'd like to think that the reason we haven't heard much about them is because people tend to focus on the Grey Knights as they are the focal point, visually, of the book. Only time will tell.

H.B.M.C. wrote:A company wanting to make money isn't a conspiracy.

Not the way you put it, nooo...

JohnHwangDD wrote:What I haven't seen: What happens to the Inq. Stormies?

Either they get the stats of the Imperial Guard ones or they aren't in the book. Either way they'll vanish from the tabletop.

George Spiggott wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:What I haven't seen: What happens to the Inq. Stormies?

Either they get the stats of the Imperial Guard ones or they aren't in the book. Either way they'll vanish from the tabletop.

Which, of course, is complete and utter nonsense.

Like Possessed, IG Stormies are (purposefully) grossly overpriced to encourage "native" Platoons & Veterans.

In the Inquisition, Stormies should be cheap and plentiful, as they're the "house" forces of an Inquisitor. By default, an Inquisitor should easily have dozens, if not hundreds, of Storms on call as his personal troops, with allied Guard / Marines / Sisters / whatever on an as-available basis. And from a sheer numbers perspective, even if there are 3,000 GKs, spread across the Imperium, we're talking about peanuts being available.

Gah.

@JHDD: Eh? Did I predict wrongly or don't you like what you read?

JohnHwangDD wrote:

George Spiggott wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:What I haven't seen: What happens to the Inq. Stormies?

Either they get the stats of the Imperial Guard ones or they aren't in the book. Either way they'll vanish from the tabletop.

Which, of course, is complete and utter nonsense.

Like Possessed, IG Stormies are (purposefully) grossly overpriced to encourage "native" Platoons & Veterans.

And this is INCREDIBLY stupid reasoning for the overpricing.

Not every regiment relies on the Schola Progenium to get their "Stormtroopers". It was nice being able to have the option of taking Grenadiers--who were similar in their equipment to Stormtroopers, but drawn up from the standard ranks of the regiment.

Bloody GW screwing with my fluff. I demand my Kasrkin Regiment back.

@ bhsman: Does anyone know the date for the next Gamesday UK? Supposedly a big Dark Eldar reveal is being factored in there, and if there's still a ways to go it wouldn't surprise me if Grey Knights are first and GW wants to save Dark Eldar for a holiday release so people are encouraged to buy more.

UK games day is set for 26th September but no official news yet on what will be there, just this early WD subcsriber offer:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=10100029a&utm_source=nemay2010&utm_medium=email&utm_term=events&utm_content=textlinkbody&utm_campaign=NE-May-2010

Lots of rumours about plastic stormtroopers, which if true, would surely mean:
a) Included in a codex other than IG (otherwise whats the point from GW perspective of expensive moulds?)
b) Cheapo points cost (to ensure good sales)
c) Cool models with lots of customisable weapon options d) So they can charge around £15 for a box of 5?

I really hope that they also do plastic SOB and GK as these would really show what can now be done with all the progress they have made in injection moulding technology.

Fluff wise, the Inquisition IS the grimdark future, as envisioned by John Blanche. No way they are not going to do them again. My money (and I have a bucket full set aside for the moment this happens) is a mega release of models, to be announced and showcased at one of the UK Gamesday seminars, and a new Forces of the Inquisition Codex, combining DH, WH, Assassins and Allies to be released just before Christmas 2010.

YES PLEASE! (GW I hope you are listening)

ok if they split gk and sob and inquisitors separate then i will contemplate kidnapping and ransom seriously i love the codex's how they are they just need points fixes and some war gear/special rule fixes and they will be absolutely peachy!

I have an Inquisitor and retinue that I like to take as an extra hq choice with my guard army in some games; I think of him as an "Ordo Xenos" inquisitor but I use the witchhunters rules. I wonder what will happen to that? I could see (from a business standpoint) where it would be in GW's interest to keep the system similiar to the existing one; I have a guard codex and guard models, but they have also sold me Inquisitor minis and an inquisitor codex, which I have to have to play my extra hq choice. If they switch Inquisitors to a more "stand alone" format, I might not want to build a whole new army so that it can include inquisitors; but if they can be used as allies, then I am more likely to spend money on adding a few miniatures and a codex to my collection. Obviosely I can't predict what they will actualy do, but I would think at least haveing the option of allied Inquisitor forces is a good business move.

General Mayhem wrote:Fluff wise, the Inquisition IS the grimdark future, as envisioned by John Blanche. No way they are not going to do them again. My money (and I have a bucket full set aside for the moment this happens) is a mega release of models, to be announced and showcased at one of the UK Gamesday seminars, and a new Forces of the Inquisition Codex, combining DH, WH, Assassins and Allies to be released just before Christmas 2010.

YES PLEASE! (GW I hope you are listening)

Except that they are not doing a combined codex and at this point they are certainly not going to make any changes to the codex.