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Dashofpepper wrote:@Janthkin: Wraiths only have a single save at 3++. They don't care about power weapons. The 72 attack scenario was specifically in answer to what happened in a game last week - ork mobs getting charged by wraiths. There are many permutations of numbers regarding what it takes to kill a wraith, and all of it is theoryhammer.

Just an FYI Dash, Wraiths (and consequently C'Tan as well) have BOTH an armor save and an invul save of the same property. So wraiths do have a 3+ and a 3++ and C'tan have a 4+/4++. And it does absolutely matter for the wraiths because power weapons will STILL negate WBB against them if they are killed by one, they simply get an invul save for it. So, no WBB, no porting (unless res orb present).

This was interesting, though I do look forward to a more 'proper' fight.

On a related note if you do make it out to the Da Boyz GT in November, wear a Capt Morgans shirt so I can find you and shake your hand! I really enjoy your bat reps and their insight has helped me to improve my own game as well.

I called my Tau friend and told him that I cheated him Saturday, so we'll need a rematch. =p

Dashofpepper wrote:I called my Tau friend and told him that I cheated him Saturday, so we'll need a rematch. =p

Make sure next time you cheat him in a less obvious manner.

Edit: That was meant to be a good-natured poke, but might not be obvious as it is the internet. So yeah. Here's me making it obvious.

Tell him to take more railguns, and if he's going to let his troops get assaulted than take some kroot.

I think it will be a much more exciting battle now, and not just a C'Tan kill fest.

phillosmaster wrote:Tell him to take more railguns, and if he's going to let his troops get assaulted than take some kroot.

I think it will be a much more exciting battle now, and not just a C'Tan kill fest.

^ This

Bubble wrap is key if you are going to do foot tau.

If not foot tau, get him to mount up.

Clubbing poor baby tau seals is only so amusing for so long.

Not to belittle the win at all, as winning with necrons is challenging, but i stopped reading the batrep when i saw the tau player took 2 ion cannon hammerheads, and not 1 railheads and broadsides .... if he had done that your monos woulda been dust. and then hes fighting a 1250 pt army ....

kill dem stunties wrote:Not to belittle the win at all, as winning with necrons is challenging, but i stopped reading the batrep when i saw the tau player took 2 ion cannon hammerheads, and not 1 railheads and broadsides .... if he had done that your monos woulda been dust. and then hes fighting a 1250 pt army ....

Throw in some Pathfinders just to make sure. Hitting on 2's isn't bad in that situation!

exactly. I didn't see the word markerlight anywhere in the batrep. This looked like a really soft Tau list. Unless that carbine firewarrior squad was a unit of pathfinders and you just killed them very early on.

Dashofpepper wrote:I called my Tau friend and told him that I cheated him Saturday, so we'll need a rematch. =p

You didn't cheat him, it's an honest mistake. I make rules mistakes all the time and I've been back in the game for over a year now. I remember my first game with my Tau when I thought that shield drones gave 4+ invulnerables to the entire unit they were attached to (ala star wars episode 1). It was a friendly after all...

Either way, the SW should have done better than they did as most any MEQ army is a good thrasher against necrons.

IMO, that's how Shield Drones should work...

As for the doom and gloom of Ion Heads....if DoP took the more traditional, Destroyer Swarm, I think there would be a different tune as the Ionheads are pretty effective vs. them.

It's not always about beating the WBB, just getting them down as frequently as you can is all you really want/can to do in the Tau player's position.

So, to summarize:

1. DashofPepper had a good list (lord knows I've been harping on Wraiths for long enough).
2. His opponents, particularly the Tau, had poor lists.
3. Cheating by omission in DashofPepper's favour. Not his fault, he just wasn't 100% on the rules.
4. Extraordinary good lucky favoured DashofPepper.

Did I miss anything?

Nurglitch wrote:Did I miss anything?

5) Ye Olde Dasho'Pepper Brand e-Drama.

5.) By turn 4 the SWs had done nothing to help the Tau allowing Dash to pick them off one at a time. Not sure what happened there. Looks like possibly bad deployment.

Gwar! wrote:

Nurglitch wrote:Did I miss anything?

5) Ye Olde Dasho'Pepper Brand e-Drama.

Yeah, I don't get all the e-hate. The guy's obviously competitive and apparently good at the game. As a fairly poor player, I'd never play him but I applaud him excelling at the game.

I'd play against dash with my necrons. It would probably be a very boring fight though.

Guys shoot, knock some down, they get back up, next turn, repeat. Assaults happen, people go down, get back up, assaults continue...blah.

Pics or it didn't happen...

I dunno what this batrep is all about but...

1. Close combat necrons doesnt work. I dont care how many baby seals you smack down. 9 models form the speartip (indeed almost the entire spear) of your (highly suspect) attack? Any seasoned player would have a feild day here.

2. You maul two players' combined 4000pts with 2000 with very little losses? So, they're horrible players? Yea, thought so.

3. A 1st turn assaulting C'tan? You dont see the possibility of an error in this? I'd have the rules ON HAND before I attempted some garbage like this.

4. Deepstrike, teleport, assault=highly suspect. I'm not up on the current Necron FAQ/ERRATA/RULES IN GENERAL (mostly due to phasing them out quickly when I've faced them in the past) but I'll be checking that one out when I get home. Again, another rule that you should have ONHAND before you try.

The thing is, you're playing a game where your turn one, and deepstriking assaults are essentially unstoppable. Dash, C'mon, you've been playing 40k for a minute now. Are we really trying to say that Necrons have the best assault delivery system in the game?

Before you go around smashing noobs, then posting your triumph on the internet...I'd suggest you get the rules down pat. My mouth dropped open reading this "Batrep".....and that isnt a good thing.

This post isnt a flame Dash (I consider you a good aquaintance and our corrospondence has been pretty good since SVDM), I just found this "Batrep" ludicrous and the guys giving you props even more off their rockers!



Morale of story

Get the rules before you attempt crazy Sh!t

Kevin949 wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:@Janthkin: Wraiths only have a single save at 3++. They don't care about power weapons. The 72 attack scenario was specifically in answer to what happened in a game last week - ork mobs getting charged by wraiths. There are many permutations of numbers regarding what it takes to kill a wraith, and all of it is theoryhammer.

Just an FYI Dash, Wraiths (and consequently C'Tan as well) have BOTH an armor save and an invul save of the same property. So wraiths do have a 3+ and a 3++ and C'tan have a 4+/4++. And it does absolutely matter for the wraiths because power weapons will STILL negate WBB against them if they are killed by one, they simply get an invul save for it. So, no WBB, no porting (unless res orb present).

C'tan don't have the normal armour save, as the FAQs say...

Does a Wraith have both an armour save and
an invulnerable save?
A. Yes, a Wraith has a 3+ armour save and a 3+
invulnerable save.

This is for wraiths only. 4++ only folks!

Sanctjud wrote:As for the doom and gloom of Ion Heads....if DoP took the more traditional, Destroyer Swarm, I think there would be a different tune as the Ionheads are pretty effective vs. them.

It's not always about beating the WBB, just getting them down as frequently as you can is all you really want/can to do in the Tau player's position.

I'd still rather have 2 railheads, and switch them to submunitions if the situation calls for it, but I see what you are saying about the Ionheads. My preference is to load up rails in my heavies. With lack of prior enemy knowledge it will help rejects lists that spam AV14. Also you can get lots of str 5-7 in the other FOC slots.

phillosmaster wrote:

Sanctjud wrote:As for the doom and gloom of Ion Heads....if DoP took the more traditional, Destroyer Swarm, I think there would be a different tune as the Ionheads are pretty effective vs. them.

It's not always about beating the WBB, just getting them down as frequently as you can is all you really want/can to do in the Tau player's position.

I'd still rather have 2 railheads, and switch them to submunitions if the situation calls for it, but I see what you are saying about the Ionheads. My preference is to load up rails in my heavies. With lack of prior enemy knowledge it will help rejects lists that spam AV14. Also you can get lots of str 5-7 in the other FOC slots.

I don't think that Ion Heads are bad. Hell, 2 squads of Broadsides and an Ion Head is pretty fething nasty against Necrons. At least in my experience...

I'm not saying Ion cannons are bad. Two squads of broadsides and 1 Ionhead would be the way to do it. That's not a bad loadout. You have the possibility of 6 railgun shots cracking enemy heavy armor. I guess it's preference, but I'd still rather have a third railgun unit at 2000 points though. AV14 spam is not uncommon at that level.

YmeLocSquirrel256 wrote:C'tan don't have the normal armour save, as the FAQs say...

Does a Wraith have both an armour save and
an invulnerable save?
A. Yes, a Wraith has a 3+ armour save and a 3+
invulnerable save.

This is for wraiths only. 4++ only folks!

It is not an issue for c'tan as it for wraiths anyway, and I know the FAQ is only for wraiths which is why I didn't apply it (at all) in my statement. Even still, there is nowhere that specifies they only have an invul save, just that they have one. And seeing as their stats are portrayed the exact same way as everyone else and they simply have a rule that states they receive an invul save, one could discern they do in fact have an armor save as well. Though it is a moot point for c'tan.

Deadshane....

I've said this repeatedly now:

I don't know the rules so well. I don't plan on playing Necrons competitively. I have enough bragging rights from the things in my signature block; this batrep was just a lolfest. It was fun to play, and ridiculous that I made 99% of my saves. I thought I would share. There's even a big smiley face in the title of the thread. The reaction I was after was, "Lol, wtf?!?"

Dashofpepper wrote:The reaction I was after was, "Lol, wtf?!?"

Oh that's the reaction I had alright, but perhaps for different reasons...

I'm surprised that you didn't expect the reaction of "Wow, that game was a rules clusterfeth. I'm surprised you got away with it." Anyway, I think it's more or less positive that you brought it up on the forum so that you can learn how to play your new army.

Rules-mistakes aside, there is no reason other than super-luck that an army like necrons can beat a force double their size and with space wolves as well.

That would require super-luck, 1 very skilled necron player, and 2 noobs as the opponents as well. I mean, c'mon, on turn 1 there was only about 1K on necrons versus 4K of Tau/SW. I'm not sure what the SW player was doing while the necrons were decimating the Tau. Monoliths block their way? Join Logan to some long fangs and then you have S10 lascannons + S9 missile launchers. Space wolves also have enough assault/shooting to take out what essentially are 9 jetbike marines w/FNP (the wraiths).

I'm not going to say this is a good game. It's an aberration of a game and most likely won't happen again....ever....unless you play against another 2 incompetent players again.....and have just as much luck.

Sorry for the rant. Not to take anything away from your win Dash, it's just that sometimes it's frustrating to see other players play so badly.

I'm really glad he posted the battle because it I for one learned a lot more about the Necron rules for monoliths and the deceiver. I think using the word incompetent is a bit harsh. Inexperience sure, but I wouldn't call someone incompetent unless they failed to learn from their losses. These guys just sounded new, and he qualified it as a friendly game (I mean he did let them outnumber him 2 to 1). That's what it sounded like to me anyway. Sure Dash shouldn't put a feather in his cap over this game, but we shouldn't flames the other dudes who sound like they are still learning their armies. Rules mistakes aside (and they both sound like honest mistakes..they certainly confused me), I just hope the Tau player learned something about playing gunline Tau because it would be a shame if he walked away thinking Tau suck (they aren't the best army by far but they aren't the worst, and they should certainly be able to hold their own against necron).

Tau is a good army, especially if run by a good general. As a matter of fact, I think Tau are better than Necrons. Space Wolves are definitely better than both given that all generals are competent with their armies.

I apologize if I've offended anyone by calling Dash's opponents "noobs" and "incompetent". I just hope that they can improve their play in the future, either by playing against Dash again (you can only get better by playing against someone better) or by browsing the forums online. From what I've read so far, I'm sure Dash will give them many pointers on how to play better.

And for those saying that Dash inadvertantly "cheated" with his necrons, I'd say his opponents inadvertantly cheated by having 2000pts more then him.