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Why do you want to enter the Golden Daemon competition?

As someone whose just joined this forum, and not that much of a hobbyist, it's a credit to you all for being so supportive and providing advice. I can't believe not one post has been taking the piss - I guess that's the rest of the internet for you!

OP - looks like a good start, and better painting that I was doing at 14. Loads of good advice here, I agree that looking into what highlights, washes, etc are in turn, and specifically practicing that technique (rather than tryng to immediately use them all) and getting feedback would be a good idea.

Good luck!

borboski wrote:As someone whose just joined this forum, and not that much of a hobbyist, it's a credit to you all for being so supportive and providing advice. I can't believe not one post has been taking the piss - I guess that's the rest of the internet for you!

I thought I was...

Well, I want to, but I'd probably modded, so I pad it out with some constructive criticism.

But now that he's posted this, I think it's about time:

Feforfar wrote:Ok, what about this figure, tell me what you think of him compared to mine!

Sorry its small!

Is you want to see it bigger: http://coolminiornot.com/255451

Okay, here's the difference. His shows hours upon hours of dedication and practice, yours does not. Your's is shoddily cut, assembled, and painted. There is no patience in your work, and no skill. Up until now, I've been very lenient with my criticism. But that last post really strikes at me. You honestly think that your work is comparable to something like that? It's obvious that you havn't put even a quarter of the work that painter did into his Daemon Prince.

Furthermore, your constant whining for a quick fix and outright ignorance to the advice that is constantly given is frustrating at best. No, you are not the gak. Your painting is tabletop quality at best, and although you have the potential to improve, your attitude shows that you are unwilling to. You are setting yourself up for failure. I hope you enjoy it.

I was only asking, now that you've said I haven't put in not even a qaurter of the effort i can go fix that and learn more, there is a method in my madness.

Also, why am I entering Golden Demon?

Because I want to, I just want to say that I've tried and failed.
Does it really matter why I entered?

It's like me asking you, why do you paint figures?

I'm not trying to be mean , its just almost every comment you try and break my heart for painting, I know and you know that im not going to get far (not past the 1st round) but I want to achieve something and say I did it, have you ever tried to enter GD???????????

Nobody is trying to break your heart, they just don't see the point in entering a contest that you know for a fact you'll lose.

Feforfar wrote:Also, why am I entering Golden Demon?

Because I want to, I just want to say that I've tried and failed.
Does it really matter why I entered?

It certainly matters why you want to try. I've never heard of an Olympian saying he just wanted to go ahead and fail. But I imagine there are plenty of young people who want to eventually compete in the Olympics. A few of them work really hard and ultimately make it. Some others don't even make it to the Olympics, but even trying to get there takes a huge amount of effort. Unlike the Oympics, you can go ahead and enter a GD competition now without any practice or much effort. None of us can stop you. But you'll be wasting your time as well as the judges' time. Best to spend that time taking some of the suggestions already posted in this thread. And you'll definitely need a better reason than "to say I've tried and failed" to go back to painting day in and day out.

I want to achieve something and say I did it

Submitting a model to qualify for a Golden Daemon is not an achievement.

Everyone is just telling you the truth about your painting. Your deamon is has colors that dont go well together. my opinion too much red and not enough work on details. It takes a few MONTHS to get the hang of it. I think you should go to your local hobby store and ask for pointers. Also try to get other minis so you can practice is just like the old saying we have to crawl before we can walk but dont ever give up that would be just a waste. with so many comments i cant wait to see your next mini that should be a good one

Okay, I will just jump in here. Have you actually been through the previous Australian winners of each category for GD and the winners of the slayer swords.

For the past three years the swords have all been won by the same guys, and they are the ones who also consistently win the category section.



That is the winning entry from 40k Large Miniature last year. Look at the transitions on the skin on the horse, I mean really look AT them. Turns out you can't look AT them you'd be better looking FOR them and you won't find them.

You need to keep improving with your techniques, you need to learn/master blending and wet blending, as well as NMM and zenthial lighting, plus other techniques.

Lastly as others said, the best way to try and win a GD category is to try and tell a story, your miniature needs to be integrated with it's base but it also needs to tell a narrative.

to OP,

I can agree with the others that you are a tad too overconfident about entering GD let alone winning it. The thing is, sure, everyone likes having their hours of hard work and devotion to one miniature being praised and you being complimented on the work you have produced, but, this takes lots of time and motivation, like how everyone starts, like how i started, like how you will start. Take a good look at that DP, and point out the areas which can be improved. then look at some tuts as mentioned before.

As Neil Armstrong once said, 'Well, I think we tried very hard not to be overconfident, because when you get overconfident, that's when something snaps up and bites you'. See the point?

I'm sorry OP that model would be laughed out of a GD competition in the UK not sure about Australia not seen anything. But why worry so would mine and 95% of every other model painter. GD is for people who can make a lot of money selling their minatures and who are artists rather than hobbyists.

I actually think the armour is pretty good... sort of has a magma feel to it.

But really, all I can recommend is that you spend more time painting. How long have you been doing it for? I'm definitely on the mediocre range after a year but if you go and take a peek at my first Space Marines you'll see how far practice can take you.

You just need to immerse yourself into the hobby, read the Dakka painting section everyday, every tutorial that's out there and talk to people down at your FLGS. Don't be afraid to experiment or fail as there is absolutely NOTHING that can't be salvaged. So many times I have painted/broken/butchered something and thought about throwing the model away, but today there are only a relative handful of models that I am ashamed of (my bikes, for example... lost half the bitz ).

I'm not old or skilled enough to say how long it takes to learn to paint to a GD standard, but once you familiarise yourself with what it takes you'll be on the road for sure.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And, reading your comments more carefully I think I'm going to add one final piece of criticism.

You have to learn to make these decisions by yourself, yes you can come on Dakka and ask for hints, tips, test the water with a design or whatever... But what you've been doing for this whole thread is effectively trying to get the community to write you a big how-to on painting your Daemon Prince.

What are you going to do when you move onto a new model? You're really not going to learn anything asking Dakka Vets how to paint your minis. Although one could argue that reading 'how-to' guides is a similar process, once you get a nose for painting you'll realise it isn't: I've assimilated the way I paint from various sources: GW guides, Codex Unforgiven, Relic Forums, Dakka, etc. and it's all truly become an amalgamation.

Once you actually sit down, experiment and LEARN you'll realise the experience gained is so much more valuable than anything we can tell you about painting a one-off model. You'll be able to purchase a figure, sit it down and know within a few seconds just exactly what techniques to employ. Conversions obviously take far more thought but when I'm not at home modelling I'll usually be thinking about what I want to do with a figure, get back and then physically try it through trial-and-error.

I suggest you google 'how to paint Chaos Daemons' and start small... This might be a tad patronising (you really do have some great foundation skills), but I first started out viewing the 'Eavy Metal guides, I suggest you try the same?

Links:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=cat440166a&categoryId=1700001§ion=&aId=10500004a

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?pageMode=multi&categoryId=1700001&pIndex=1&aId=11600014&start=2

I am going to say this the right way the Daemon prince you posted would not win golden Daemon why he only worked on it for 4 hours I copied the painters comments from comon

Hiho.

It has been painted on Wednesday afternoon in about 4 hours with some "fresh air" breaks as a gift to the great new chief of the local GW Store, Gregor - a wonderful person - it is a gift to him for a good start and the store version of the model. 4 hours, puh... my back still hurts a bit, haha... whatever keep in mind by judging it that it has been painting rapidly with ultrasuperwetinwetpowerninjaturtlesherotechnique, hope you like him!

This demonprince model really rocks. The sprue is awesome in my eyes - first i was not really impressed, but when i did hold the sprue in ma hands - really wow and a big joy to paint! Base is build up from common earth, old lollipop sticks and thin wire and a stone i think...

4 hours - let me know what you think about it... maybe i will do this once a week to paint a miniature in the local GW store, every Wednesday, 4 hours, a mini, a brush and some good time...

Best Regards and keep on happy painting!
Roman

It is better than table top but not like this it won gold this year in Baltimore



Yours could win young bloods if you listen to people like Les Bursley or other painters like him, and use techniques that you don't know about like wet blending color pallet and the color wheel. You are doing very good for a beginner but there is always room for improvement.

Feforfar wrote:Ok, what about this figure, tell me what you think of him compared to mine!

Sorry its small!

Is you want to see it bigger: http://coolminiornot.com/255451

It's okay, I guess. Not the best I've ever seen. The new DP only has one pose, so it's hard to make him look like he's doing anything besides looking threatening. It's probably a couple years ahead of yours. Notice how flat the paint is. And how matte it is.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

sonofruss wrote:I am going to say this the right way the Daemon prince you posted would not win golden Daemon why he only worked on it for 4 hours I copied the painters comments from comon

Hiho.

It has been painted on Wednesday afternoon in about 4 hours with some "fresh air" breaks as a gift to the great new chief of the local GW Store, Gregor - a wonderful person - it is a gift to him for a good start and the store version of the model. 4 hours, puh... my back still hurts a bit, haha... whatever keep in mind by judging it that it has been painting rapidly with ultrasuperwetinwetpowerninjaturtlesherotechnique, hope you like him!

This demonprince model really rocks. The sprue is awesome in my eyes - first i was not really impressed, but when i did hold the sprue in ma hands - really wow and a big joy to paint! Base is build up from common earth, old lollipop sticks and thin wire and a stone i think...

4 hours - let me know what you think about it... maybe i will do this once a week to paint a miniature in the local GW store, every Wednesday, 4 hours, a mini, a brush and some good time...

Best Regards and keep on happy painting!
Roman

It is better than table top but not like this it won gold this year in Baltimore



Yours could win young bloods if you listen to people like Les Bursley or other painters like him, and use techniques that you don't know about like wet blending color pallet and the color wheel. You are doing very good for a beginner but there is always room for improvement.

Sorry, but what are you talking about? Your post is random and grammatically flawed


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Manchu wrote:

I want to achieve something and say I did it

Submitting a model to qualify for a Golden Daemon is not an achievement.

I agree. That proves nothing except that you took time out of your day to go to some place and hand over your model to a complete stranger. That's like filling out a job application, turning it in, and never bothering to try again. Or making a sandwich, then dropping it on the floor.

I haven't seen anyone post this yet. It's a look at most of the winners over the years.

http://demonwinner.free.fr/

Like I said before, traditionally Baltimore-USA was sort of a joke compared to the rest of the world, but now even that has changed... the level is extremely high everywhere.

Just my 2 cents. GW has a way they want you to paint models. Look at the winners of past evens and copy the work. Dry brushing is not the way to go because it's the easiest way to paint.

Elitest Jerk wrote:Just my 2 cents. GW has a way they want you to paint models. Look at the winners of past evens and copy the work. Dry brushing is not the way to go because it's the easiest way to paint.

Darn, and I was going to attempt to tell him that he needs to learn how to do that.

Elitest Jerk wrote:Just my 2 cents. GW has a way they want you to paint models. Look at the winners of past evens and copy the work. Dry brushing is not the way to go because it's the easiest way to paint.

Yeah there are definitely styles that come and go, some things are in vogue. The last few years have gone for this very high quality but rather drab look. I prefer some brightness in figures but a lot of winners of late have been very drab in grey and brown. That DKoK on horseback above exemplifies this. The quality is top rate but when all the winners look much like this then it doesn't seem as interesting as in previous years although there seemed more colour last year. A couple of years ago and it was all very drab. But this also seems reflected in the way a lot of the 'eavy metal stuff is being painted, they aren't as bright and colourful as they used to be.

As for the original post, the figure is at best tabletop quality. There's nothing wrong with that, I vastly prefer figures to be painted to table standard than remain unpainted, but it's not competition standard. I don't want to be big headed but I have a higher standard of painting than you but still wouldn't bother to enter anything, the standard is phenomenally high today and it's something I'll never reach.

Just enter your model. Look around at the competition and use the experience to grow.

Byte wrote:Just enter your model. Look around at the competition and use the experience to grow.

I really don't think he's at the point where he can glance at a few models and learn to paint Some people know hot to do that, other's don't.

Samus_aran115 wrote:

Byte wrote:Just enter your model. Look around at the competition and use the experience to grow.

I really don't think he's at the point where he can glance at a few models and learn to paint Some people know hot to do that, other's don't.

Negative much?

Well not really. I don't think most people know how to do that. It's like looking at the sistine chapel and saying "huh, yeah,never thought of doing it like that"

You won't really learn too much due to the extreme amounts of effort GD painters go through to remove all traces of actual painting.

Ok, I'll throw my hat into the ring, look, Freforfar GD is the big competition in the miniature painting world it's like the olympics or wimbledon or F1 (without the money or the babes that is) The guys who paint for it will have undoubtedly put hundreds of man hours into their pieces and years of practice before that. I'm not saying you couldn't win a GD but it's gonna take one hellluva lot of work. Also, throughout this thread, you've been asking for help and that's fine, to a point... But eventually you're just gonna have to work it out yourself, practice practice practice. If GD winners are Raphael Nadal then at the moment, your someone who plays tennis once or twice a week.
Yours Sincerely, Ludd

A year or two ago a friend of mine entered into the GD competition in Maryland. She is an excellent painter, perhaps the best I have ever seen. She paints models as a living (well, part-full time now in this economy) and receives commissions from all over the world. Her models have been featured in a few magazines (I am told) and even a few box covers.

When she entered, she didn't even make it to the "Runners Up," despite entering a model into every category of Fantasy. I think she won an honorable mention or something. Now, this would not have been such a let down, except that (a) she was hoping to win to help with her business (people will pay extra for GD winning painters, and it also attracts more business to boot) and (b) those that won had inferior paint jobs. Her's extensively features free hand detailing, 3D effects, light effects (glowing weapons casting light on the models, viewable from most all angles, and extremely realistic), dynamic effects (if you turned some of the entries, they appeared to be moving!), and just general badassery.

The models that beat her's actually had mold lines still visible! Lacked any real intrigue in posing, free hand, shading, etc... Featured no interesting dynamics or effects, just very run of the mill, excellent, paint jobs. Would look good as box art, but if you paid more than just the going price for a decent paint job, you would be getting had.

The rumored reason she didn't win? Well, for one, being female, two, it was pretty obvious the judges were good friends with the other applicants (greeting each other by first name, conversing about their goings on [kids, family, whatever]), and that the judges just seemed to have already chosen who was going to win the competition.

Over the past many years I have been playing 40k, I have seen an notable increase in corruption streaming through the hobby. I am told this is nothing new. I had always sort of hoped that war gaming would be above such weaknesses as petty favoritism, but obviously it isn't.

So, if you want to win a Golden Demon, you'd better buy a good set of knee pads and start practicing with bananas.

For the base, try making it into a volcano type thing. heated rocks, cracks w/ lava, etc.

Skinnattittar wrote:A year or two ago a friend of mine entered into the GD competition in Maryland. She is an excellent painter, perhaps the best I have ever seen. She paints models as a living (well, part-full time now in this economy) and receives commissions from all over the world. Her models have been featured in a few magazines (I am told) and even a few box covers.

When she entered, she didn't even make it to the "Runners Up," despite entering a model into every category of Fantasy. I think she won an honorable mention or something. Now, this would not have been such a let down, except that (a) she was hoping to win to help with her business (people will pay extra for GD winning painters, and it also attracts more business to boot) and (b) those that won had inferior paint jobs. Her's extensively features free hand detailing, 3D effects, light effects (glowing weapons casting light on the models, viewable from most all angles, and extremely realistic), dynamic effects (if you turned some of the entries, they appeared to be moving!), and just general badassery.

The models that beat her's actually had mold lines still visible! Lacked any real intrigue in posing, free hand, shading, etc... Featured no interesting dynamics or effects, just very run of the mill, excellent, paint jobs. Would look good as box art, but if you paid more than just the going price for a decent paint job, you would be getting had.

The rumored reason she didn't win? Well, for one, being female, two, it was pretty obvious the judges were good friends with the other applicants (greeting each other by first name, conversing about their goings on [kids, family, whatever]), and that the judges just seemed to have already chosen who was going to win the competition.

Over the past many years I have been playing 40k, I have seen an notable increase in corruption streaming through the hobby. I am told this is nothing new. I had always sort of hoped that war gaming would be above such weaknesses as petty favoritism, but obviously it isn't.

So, if you want to win a Golden Demon, you'd better buy a good set of knee pads and start practicing with bananas.

Well... Baltimore GD has always been a joke. Most 'young blood' entries elsewhere were better than the Baltimore 'adult' winners. The last few years have changed however, and many really good painters are getting involved now.

Here's of an example of a GD youngbloods winner:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=&categoryId=3300001§ion=community&aId=10500056a
This is a great example of:
1. A story, The terrified guardsman and the leering commisssar.
2. Conversion, Look at the detail on the base and all the little extras in the piece.
3. Amazing painting, Blending on the coat, excellent palette choices and highlights.
Sorry, wouldn't work, dunno why.

Just paint it up as good as you can and enter it anyway

Don't bother with converting it as it's already so far along, you'd just end up wrecking what you have right now.
At the very least you'll end up with a great center piece for your army.

You're not good enough for Golden Demon. I'm quite elitist when it comes to painting and don't even bother reading threads if I think the models look like garbage. Yet this has gone on for three pages... why?

Assuming you're not trolling, drop the stubborn ignorance and be realistic. Set yourself a goal for the competition next year, and in the meantime get down to your local store and demand to be taught the basic techniques. Read every WD for their painting guides; they are the only good thing in that rag but they do work. Then, next year, start a new thread showing everyone how far you've come, with a link to this piss poor paintjob, and then you'll feel a real sense of achievement.

Anti-Mag wrote:You're not good enough for Golden Demon. I'm quite elitist when it comes to painting and don't even bother reading threads if I think the models look like garbage. Yet this has gone on for three pages... why?

Assuming you're not trolling, drop the stubborn ignorance and be realistic. Set yourself a goal for the competition next year, and in the meantime get down to your local store and demand to be taught the basic techniques. Read every WD for their painting guides; they are the only good thing in that rag but they do work. Then, next year, start a new thread showing everyone how far you've come, with a link to this piss poor paintjob, and then you'll feel a real sense of achievement.

I wasnt goin to bother commenting on this thread, but by god ur comment just takes the biscuit....

Yes the DP isnt up to a GD standard but its not a piss poor paintjob either.

When it comes to mentioning trolling, we need a "he who smelt it, dealt it" rule...