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So where is this store? Cause if I'm ever in town I'd pay the fee just to get a game or two in on those. I'm not a huge fan of set-terrain tables but those sure are pretty.

To be honest he might want to look into a bit more modular terrain for the tables. Speaking from personal experience when we had some amazing tables when I worked for Workshop but they got boring to play on week after week since nothing on them could be changed.

OP: really? If you are one of those guys not spending money at this shop, then why would you even think you can just show up and play there, especially on tables constructed as such?

And as much as it is a person's right to find the best deal possible for their GW products, it is just as much a right for a store owner to entice folks to spend at his store. This looks like a way of trying to compete with online retailers in order to stay solvent.

Considering how poorly gamers in general tend to treat shop terrain, I think this is a more than reasonable approach. This terrain is way beyond any LGS terrain collection. This looks to even rival GW Battlebunkers.

If folks are so intent on saving money online, that is fine. But don't begrudge a store owner for coming up with ways to further his own business and cater to his customers, you know, the ones who are spending money in his store.

1st off I will preface this by saying like roadhouse, I have been frequenting the store in question for about 6 yrs. The store owner, roadhouse are really good friends of mine. So I get a little defensive about my store.

That out of the way.

I was ready to jump all over people on the 1st page and half, but I did my due diligence and kept reading. I am glad to see people come to their senses a bit about the fee. Now that it has been explained a little bit.

It was designed to help take care of some of the awesome terrain pieces that had been purchased to get people to go "holy crap that game looks sweet" and get into 40k, other GW games and Flames of War (the snow table is only for Flames) There are a few other more modular tables that are just as good looking as the imperial looking one too. So I am cool with paying the membership if it means continuing to have sweet looking terrain to play on. There are about 3 more tables that are for 1st come 1st server general use that anyone can play on with no fee. And plus the membership is only like 10 bucks a month, so don't go to McDonalds for lunch 2 times and boom you have it paid for.

The no "online purchased stuff" rule is really for people that are known offenders in our area who regularly buy the majority online and continue to come into the store to play. They buy drinks at the shop and call it support. We aren't asking people at the door "hey did you buy that army of Khorne online?", "if so we don't serve your kind here." It isn't like that at all. The owner just wants people that use our store a lot to support our store. If you want a place to play then you need to buy your stuff at the store. That's how the place stays open. I am sorry if some people don't understand that. All local store owners, believe it or not are there to at least break even on the space if not make money on it....shocker I know. We as gamers are not entitled to anything.

That is my little rant for today. Take it for whatever. I have no problem with paying a small fee to play on sweet tables and to keep the lights on at the store that I spend a ton of my time going to and hanging out at.

Hulksmash wrote:So where is this store? Cause if I'm ever in town I'd pay the fee just to get a game or two in on those. I'm not a huge fan of set-terrain tables but those sure are pretty.

To be honest he might want to look into a bit more modular terrain for the tables. Speaking from personal experience when we had some amazing tables when I worked for Workshop but they got boring to play on week after week since nothing on them could be changed.

It's in middle TN, Hulk. PM me if you're ever in the area. The other new tables not pictured are modular. Lots of nice city ruins/buildings and a very cool desert table with buttes and a river. As I said, some real Games Day quality stuff.

Oh, and the store has a tournament almost every month and sponsors two of the best events in the South. Both of which I might add the OP attends regularly.

Oz & Roadhouse, glad to see the store regulars coming to it's defense.

@OP.....You know I posted similar questions on their forum more just being devils advocate than anything else. The owner and many of the guys that play there are awesome and are credits to the hobby. My situation is that I hit this store maybe three times a year. I knew these questions would be asked so I jumped out there as a friend and posted it, making sure all the bases are covered. And they are. Alot of thought and discussion went into this. When I posted it was directly to the people who were making the decisions. You took it...flamed it....posted some quotes without doing enough to get the whole picture and page one is a rant fest. And to top all that off you go and post on the Battle for Stones River thread "ready to pre-register"

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/331979.page#2257080


Now we have gone almost two full pages without you (OP) posting anything else. Don't start something and not be there to finish it. The owner very quietly works hard to do alot, not for just this hobby but for a lot of others. He has my respect taking a stand on issue that many stores deal with. I would be a hypocrit to denounce people who buy on the internet. I buy all my bits and older stuff off the net. A good quarter of each of my two armies are internet bought. But I support my stores. I am into alot more than 40k and I buy a ton of that from my local store as it is.

Pick a side and stick with it or if you have changed your stance say so. Don't flame and then run away. That is internet cowardice at it finest.

I also try to game at the store in question whenever I can--when school, work, wife permits that is...

It should say something that all kinds of people are stepping up to defend the store owner in his decision. And you know what? He's not laying down some draconian law and saying my way or the highway out of the blue. This is a local matter that the owner has brought before his customer base on our online forum. He did that to gauge reaction, get input, and answer questions. In the end, the owner loves the games, really enjoys most of the people, and wants to provide a place to bring it all together. People like the OP fly off the handle without all the facts and run to gossip like a girl in grade school. Instead, he could have posted his concerns on our forums like everyone else. But that takes a modicum of maturity and a willingness to see things through as Bikeninja said.

The owner is just trying to use common sense to keep his store running. If you're an out of town player who stops by and wants to get in a game, then that's VERY different from the leeches who buy armies online, show up on Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays, and never place terrain back in the terrain room properly if at all.

If anyone is ever coming through the middle TN area and would like a game in a great atmosphere, then PM me. I'm proud of our store, and I'm willing to show it off to anyone who will listen.

Yeah that is a little ridiculous. Nothing like completely distroying someones interest in table top wargaming. As if its not bad enough the models themselves are overpriced. Maybe they are just trying to encourage players to go home, get together with some friends and make their own table

Sorry for not posting, it was my step son's birthday yesterday and we just got up! I quite alot to say so I guess I will get started.....

I posted this thread because I have never heard of a store that charged "memberships" to use space in their FLGS. That being said, I really find the part about "purchasing" models online kind of harsh. I do get to this store when they run large events and almost everytime I get to visit my niece who is a student at MTSU.

I don't know any store that doesn't have it's fair share of "leeches" but even the "leeches" still have to buy stuff from time to time, however small it may be! I travel to alot of stores for a tournament here or a day of gamig there and ALWAYS purchase around 25 to 30 bucks worth of stuff wherever I go.

Yes my OP did say wtf? really? That is because I was very shocked that a store owner would have to go to such extreme measures, for whatever his reason might be. I mainly wanted to get input from gamers all around the US and overseas as well. I have only gamed in the south and in any store I have walked into there are "free" tables to play on with each stores best terrain/tables being available for anyone to use and I've never heard anything in the manner of "no online purchased armies allowed in store".

I have games at this stores events many times and have never met anything but nice people there, none I would consider "leeches" from talking to and playing with but I don't get a chance to game there regularly...

In both of my previous posts in this thread I haven't downed this store or the people there at all. That is far from how I feel about 99% of the gamers in the "BORO. I have a great time anytime attend the events there! I was just in shock when looking at the local msg boards and found this whole thing about charging memberships, I was curious how other gamers would react to their FLGS owner doing such a thing. Apparently, it is somewhat frequent in way more FLGS than I thought it would be.

It just seems rather extreme about the whole online army thing. Most of us have SERVERAL armies and I'm sure not a 1 of us bought every model, bit or paint used at our FLGS.

I 100% plan to attend any event these guys put on as they are awesome! If you look at what I have said on here, I never badmouthed anyone and did nothing aside from voicing my shock that a good store with good people felt the need to do such a thing!

P

Well done for replying!

I think we will understand your position better now.

I have to say I am still surprised that US gamers are so centred on stores. I would have thought with your big homes, and lots of church halls, space could easily be found elsewhere.

Space can easily be found elsewhere to play.

A reliable shop can't be.

I read as much of this as I could. I am the person the OP was posting about. It is my store he was discussing.
I am not trying to bleed my customers out. I simply feel if you are a customer of mine then you are more than welcome here. As the post said I have open tables for them. If you dont shop with me and never intend to. and you simply come up and play then I have no interest in letting you play here. I cant afford to allow non customers to take up space I provide for my customers. The membership is for specific tables. these are high quality expensive tables. the fee is hardly enough to get my money back. Simply a way to make people who want to play on them offset cost and make them understand if they break stuff they cant just act like it is no big deal.

I have been here for years providing a nice place to play. I provide many things free of charge that my customers love to use. I am glad that they do. They are also a very good group of people and many if not all are friends.

You say it is bad that I am finally saying it isnt ok to play when you provide nothing in return? is it ok to bowl for free? is it ok to go kart for free? is it ok to enter a gym and workout for free? No. So why is this different. At least I still allow free space to my real customers.

I am not even saying buy whole army. Think about it. Jumping straight in and criticizing me wasnt very smart at all. To be a paying customer here is fairly simple. Shop with us. No not Pepsi bottle and chips but really shop here.

If you play elsewhere that is good play there and support that store. Trust me if you dont support the shop you play in they may suffer or simply go away. You want more players then help your store get them. Isnt it your duty to do this if you want more? Technically the store is there for them to be a business. It just so happens most of us store owners love this hobby and all within it. So we strive to continue to make this better. I think maybe it is time for you to do the same. If you do already then stop complaining. We are all in this together.

One last thought. Did you ever consider calling me or coming by to discuss this. If you ever met me you would know I am easy to talk to about anything in this store.

To all of you who support your local stores I thank you and respect you in many ways.

One thing you may want to consider, Chris, is a way to stopgap the ever present eBayers.

Put up a notice that instead of someone selling their army on eBay...they can put it up for sale in a display case at your store. Take a small cut of the sale, and voila. The money's guaranteed to be coming back to you and the store community gets a bit of a reinvigoration.

SlaveToDorkness wrote:Here's a shot of just ONE of the tables we get to paly on for our $10/mo.

I wonder how much that table cost to build? Unless someone donated it then it's not unreasonable for the store to at least want to get their money back on it.

I've played at many stores and the ones with the best terrain and gaming areas charge for membership or table use. That's not unreasonable, the owner putting down all these stipulations and who is and isn't welcome is way over the top. I would never to go to a store like that.

I finally read all of this. I realize online only is very broad. my intention is not to create loopholes and whatnot. The fee is actually used to buy more high quality made tables. The tabes were extremely expensive. This will allow each year for us to provide them with more tables.

I actually like every player even if they use internet to buy their stuff. I just cant afford to provide them with space to play anymore. since i am effectively dividing the space with open play area and member area it will make it harder for players to always have gaming space. so in doing so the people who just come in and play and dont buy from us at all will have to suffer in that manner.

Happy Holiday everyone. I hate that I had to be dragged through the mud but things happen and I am sure it wasnt intended.

After seeing the pictures I can say that if my store had terrain like that I'd expect a fee to play on those tables too. I liked the idea of a $5 fee to play, but if you bought at least $25 of product, the fee was waived for the day. That sounds like a phenomenal idea. The internet-army rant probably wouldn't work too well, and the post suggesting the owner being P.O'd about internet-armies sounded bad, but the pay to play with an addendum of spending money counting as the "paying" is great-and that should also be the case for playing D&D because of the lack of materials after an initial buy, and same for M:TG. But with those, the store should provide playmats and dice for the cards to be used, and you pay to use them: if you buy your own cards, fees are waived. It sounds like a great idea doing it that way, and maybe the guys who go to the store who are on great terms with the manager can suggest these ideas that a poster before me suggested that I just elaborated on. Give it a go: sounds like it'll help in the long run.

P.S. My store has crappy tables and I provide terrain for half of them when they have tournaments because I have so much. If I was expected to pay to play there, I'd walk right out since I already do so much for the store (and work there and provide my models to the store free of charge if they need them-that's my way of paying) But for tables like this...you can bet I'd be walking in with a $5 in hand or $25 to spend in order to play on those!

edit-Chrispryor, seeing that you are the owner, I guess your loyal friends and customers don't need to tell you now what I had suggested from a previous poster as you can see yourself-and if I were ever in the area, I'd love to head to your store and play a game on one of those tables: they're beautiful. Keep up the nice appearance!

I am not POd. funny thing is I asked everyone. it wasnt some hey this is how it is. I simply asked for everyones ideas on this. We havent even set up membership yet. it is still written as a...what do you think about x type of thing.
So many people hate this dislike that. i would not go here and all that. so you are not open minded enough to come in and see it all and talk to me and then decide. I realize many of you dont live in this area and are simply ranting back. If you ever come through the area stop by and see for yourself. trust me these are great people and it is a good store.

My apologies Chris, I was just mentioning how the original post made you sound P.O'd-not that you actually were P.O'd-it's the problem with internet text-based speech. After hearing more of the situation, it sounds like a good idea to charge for a more "elite" setting and letting your serious, older and more mature players who have spent so much money on your product reap the reward of higher end tables (also keeps potentially disaster-bound children away from the high end product). Good luck, and I'm glad to see many of your customers approving of this idea and that you asked them their opinions first. I'm planning on opening my own hobby store some day...after I get situated with a full job and spouse, and topics like these help me plan how I will set mine up

I am all about supporting my FLGS. The guys that run it have done so for almost twenty years, and give me free run of the place. So I often go in an buy things from them(Be it a coke or new pieces) About two years ago they ran into trouble and could not pay their bills so I stepped up and payed the rent for them.(I am not suggesting people do this, this was a unique set of circumstances that happened at a good time for me financially. I was also in a very giving mood that day, and yes I personally payed the bill for them.)

Though before I found this place, I went to another independent retailer and when I walked in the guy said "You can play but make sure you buy something!" and I was like "Uh...thats not rude at all." and turned around and walked out.

no apology needed. i would never say that poontangler (nice name that is funny). it is always benefit of the doubt. talk to customer first then decide whatever. funny part is I am fighting person in real life martial arts and all that. yet i would never be mean to people here. gaming is such an awesome hobby I could not imagine trying to make it worse. i just felt some attempt at me making some light of all this was needed.
some of you may notice i dont use this board for even promoting my business events and such. but i didnt want to have it tarnished potentially either.

<---waves at Chris

<---Deathklokk

In the years I've played, I've been at three different stores, each with different takes on membership programs. The first was a tiny place with a single terrain table, and didn't have a program to speak of. The second had several, but after a year or so started to charge players to use their gaming facilities. The third has a member program which entails a 10% store discount for $20 bucks a year. For any Warhammer player, that's a terriffic deal. Anyways, only in one circumstance could I maybe justify charging players to play at a store: if people aren't buying models at the location. If everyone is just bringing armies from elsewhere to use there.

chrispryor wrote: so you are not open minded enough to come in and see it all and talk to me and then decide. I realize many of you dont live in this area and are simply ranting back.

chrispryor wrote:some of you may notice i dont use this board for even promoting my business events and such. but i didnt want to have it tarnished potentially either.

chrispryor wrote:Happy Holiday everyone. I hate that I had to be dragged through the mud but things happen and I am sure it wasnt intended.

i think you and your players are overreacting more than a bit here. was the OP a bit ZoMG!?! in his post? yes, but ultimately he was asking a question of whether this is "ridiculous" and the general answer in the thread was that it isn't if the store is providing a service over and above generic sparse terrain, which you wholeheartedly are. no one was "dragging you through the mud" or "tarnishing" your reputation or frankly even ranting after the first post for the most part as the thread was decidely in your favor and the OP didn't even have any specific detail about where he is located or the store in question is throughout his post. if it wasn't for you and the store's customers, we wouldn't know anything more than the store is presumably in the United States judging from the OP's flag... hardly a specificly targetting mudslinging like you're making it out to be. only because of your and your customers aggressive defense do we now know exactly which store is being talked about. For someone used to playing free in a store (which is overwhelmingly the case in US stores), suddenly being asked to pay to play is jarring. You may want to develop a thicker skin on the internet or you'll end up spending all the profits from your game club like Jay and Silent Bob.

Augustus wrote:
What is ridiculous is the over the top negative reaction you have, your absurd internet speak says almost all that's necessary to understand your opinion on this matter. People who run stores do it as a job, and probably an investment, expecting it to be free is entitlement minded drivel. Or perhaps you don't deserve to be indignant if we all decided to berate you for not allowing us to come play in your home with your toys for free. Stop being a child.

After reading that you sound just like one of the belligerent entitlement minded miscreants this was aimed at! I want to find out who the store owner is so I can mail order some product from him. It's sad so many belligerent nerds have forced him into a decision like this.

I'll also say this, if you're reading this thread and siding with the op you're the kind of gamer who gives us a bad name. Perhaps a hobby you can afford would suit you better?

People who buy from stores do it at their discretion and there are two valid sides to this argument. I or anyone else may not be entitled to anything for free but the other side of that is that this store owner is not entitled to my money either. I personally rarely game and when I do I can do it at a friends house or in a basement. This means a stores gaming space is not worth money to me. I am aware this is different for other people but I am not spending my hard earned money to subsidize another persons playing habits or a possibly failing business.

Now without knowing the facts it is a little hard to judge what is really going on here. For instance it may very well be that this guy either needs the extra money to keep his store afloat or he may really have a problem with too many players in the store crowding out his paying customers. If he does have a problem with nonpaying customers crowding out his paying customers this probably is a good move. On the other hand if he is just trying to get some extra money to help save his store this is just not going to work.

Either way he has made the way too common small business mistake of informing people of this new policy in a less than cordial manner. It blows my mind how often small business owners get up on their high horse and piss people off when they simply could have taken the time to politely explain their situation without making anyone mad.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

BloodQuest wrote:
I love how people are turning their nose up at a 10% discount as if it were nothing at all.

If you got 10% off everything, everywhere you went, it would be the equivalent of getting a 15% pay rise.

I don't think too many of us would sneer at that!

+1 on the taking your own food to a restaurant comment as well...

And by your own logic 20% is even better...... it isn't a matter of sneering at ten percent it comes down to me having a limited amount of money to spend that I bust my ass for and wanting to maximize what I can get out of it. Why is that so hard to understand?

warboss you are right. I posted in response to i guess make sure it didnt?

bretz123 i am not trying to get extra money to stay afloat or anything i am just wantng to just the expense spent on tables for this member thing. even then it doesnt cover it as i intend on contributing more eother way no biggie. this member thing was actually the idea of several customers. they wanted even better tables than we already have. in order to achieve it i was looking into member programs. I am not on a high horse so to speak. as you can tell i am trying to explain it all. i think if i were on a high horse trying to upset people i would not even be on here. anyway it is always hard to explain on the net.

brettz123 wrote:And by your own logic 20% is even better...... it isn't a matter of sneering at ten percent it comes down to me having a limited amount of money to spend that I bust my ass for and wanting to maximize what I can get out of it. Why is that so hard to understand?

You're allowed to buy your stuff wherever you want.

Just as this particular store owner is entitled to have standards as to who he lets play on his awesome tables. 10% off is the icing on the cake, and more than he really has to give as a discount anyway. This is why I won't deal with the public for a job, and I hold people that do it gracefully as saints.

Kanluwen wrote:Space can easily be found elsewhere to play.

A reliable shop can't be.

I understand the logic that your local shop will die out if you don't buy stuff there.

What I don't get is why Americans seem to want to play in shops rather than in clubs.

In this kind of case, the shop is providing tables and better terrain than a lot of clubs would have. IMO he is practically operating as a club and deserves to charge for membership.

I haven't got anything against shops. I just think they are for buying stuff in, rather than playing games.

That's an entirely ridiculous prospect! Have you really encountered a store that does this? The furthest my local GW has gone is getting irritated with people forgetting their own paints and having to use the store's.

chrispryor wrote:warboss you are right. I posted in response to i guess make sure it didnt?

bretz123 i am not trying to get extra money to stay afloat or anything i am just wantng to just the expense spent on tables for this member thing. even then it doesnt cover it as i intend on contributing more eother way no biggie. this member thing was actually the idea of several customers. they wanted even better tables than we already have. in order to achieve it i was looking into member programs. I am not on a high horse so to speak. as you can tell i am trying to explain it all. i think if i were on a high horse trying to upset people i would not even be on here. anyway it is always hard to explain on the net.

Glad you came to explain, cause just from the quotes (which I assume were what you wrote on the local forum) it really made you come off like a jerk. I can see from your postings here you're probably not. The one thing I think you really should change is that "I don't need you" stance you have about people making small purchases, or at least the wording. I get that you mean it toward a very specific sub group of your existing customers, but still. One of the first things I do when I visit an area is look for the local game shop, and try to find online info. If I stumbled across your store/local forum, which is how I found my current home store, and saw that, I'd pass on by based on attitude alone. My local group includes a lot of veteran 40k players, we're very rarely adding things to our collection, but most of us pick up something small here and there to keep supporting the local store (Like how redonk is buying paint online when you're in the mood to paint stuff?), and that kind of attitude from a store owner, I found personally offensive.

It looks like the store terrain is fantastic, something that is definitely a plus for wanting to start a membership based system, you could even create an in store gaming club. Charge dues, and have special perks, and I doubt anyone will complain further unless they're just nitpicking.

CommissarCandlestick wrote:That's an entirely ridiculous prospect! Have you really encountered a store that does this? The furthest my local GW has gone is getting irritated with people forgetting their own paints and having to use the store's.

"Having" to use the stores??

If you forget your paints buy some or don't paint.

Like most wargamers I've thought/fantasized about running my own store possibly one day...something tells me I may want to reconsider these ideas..