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To penetrate the chest plate? Tactical nuke. But I think any sort of anti-tank gun being aimed at the more vunerable parts would have a good chance.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

scubasteve04 wrote:
The only thing outside of an artillery blast in 40k that can pierce 2+ armor is advanced weapons like Lascannons, Plasmaguns, Meltaguns, ect. All non-existent weapons in the 21st century.

Railguns. That said, I still don't think they'd be able to do it.

We've got those now.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1q_rRicAwI[youtube]

LOOK AT THAT PAPER TARGET CRUMPLE THE TERMIES ARE F*CKED

A pure Terminator army wouldn't stand a chance against American military.

Sniper teams with .50 Calibers shooting them in the eyes.

That aside you'd need a Railgun or at least an APDFS (is that right?) Anti-Tank round from a tank to take one out.

i know our snipers are good, but i doubt that can consistantly hit something thats less then a couple of square inches in area. especially if moving around.

we have trouble zeroing in on a terrorist standing in the middle of a crowd. don't say you can hit a guy in the eye from far enough away where his hand held RPG launcher can't hurt you back.

Those railguns the navy are developing look like they might be able to do the trick. Outside of that and the Barrett to the head I'd go with Fuel Air Bombs, GAU-8, tactical nukes.

grayspark wrote:A pure Terminator army wouldn't stand a chance against American military.

Sniper teams with .50 Calibers shooting them in the eyes.

That aside you'd need a Railgun or at least an APDFS (is that right?) Anti-Tank round from a tank to take one out.

Yea APDFS is right (armor piercing discarding fin sabot), and it would probably penetrate terminator armor.

But an army of american snipers with .50 BMG sniper rifles? Seriously? The Terminators would be teleporting right on top of the snipers and it would be a bloody mess. No chance really for a sniper to set a shot to penetrate the Terminators eye holes. Maybe in hollywood, but not IRL.

People need to stop saying .50 cal snipers. They are not even close to the 40k equivilent of AP 2. They are probably AP 4 at best.

remeber this is technology created at the least 28,000 years from(assuming it was created around the year 30,00) now essentially longer then current recorded history even goes back. I think that the technology would be too advanced to even think about getting hurt by modern weapons. Even the eye slits are like made of material stronger then a 50 cal sniper round. The understanding of the tech cant be comprehended. I mean serioussly bolters are small rockets around the size of a fist that explode after penetrating. Kinda sounds like those anti tank rounds. I dont believe anything we currently have can even chip a terminators armour. hit him with tank rounds and he will probly start laughing cuz it tickled

dmthomas7 wrote:remeber this is technology created at the least 28,000 years from(assuming it was created around the year 30,00) now essentially longer then current recorded history even goes back. I think that the technology would be too advanced to even think about getting hurt by modern weapons.

I guess it depends how you view 40K tech. From what I got from all theGW and publications I read over the years, Imperial tech is not necessarily that advanced. it os true that they use super-thick materials with amazing pieces of technology, but there must be a limit to the resistance of ceramite.

AFAIK, most weapons in the 41st millenium use energetic bolts or shockwaves (like laser or plasma weapons) or destroy their target by literally burning it or melting it down (flamers, meltas...). It seems that advanced projectile weapons are relatively rare in the 41st millenium. So, it would be fair to assume that ceramite (and termy suits) are designed to resist extreme amounts of heat caused by any energetic weapon.
On the other hand, their resistance to kinetic weapons must be lower.

Which means that our most destructive heavy weapons would probably crack the termy suit open after a few hits.

Well, bolters/boltguns are somewhere around .75 Caliber... Unsure of Heavy Bolters though. I'd figure you would need something a lot heavier than that to penetrate a Terminator's armor... Though this should've been obvious.

Heavy bolter shells are about the size of a fist. marine fist!

None of the above.

None of those weapons would be anywhere near the equivalent of a 40k weapon that has AP2.

Also, there are no "eye holes" in power or terminator armor. Those things have auto-senses. Contrary to popular belief, auto-sense aren't binoculars. They're an integrated sensor system that projects the field of vision onto the inside of a marine's helmet. Those "eye holes" are just decoration, and no less armored than anywhere else on the helmet.

DarknessEternal wrote:
Also, there are no "eye holes" in power or terminator armor. Those things have auto-senses. Contrary to popular belief, auto-sense aren't binoculars. They're an integrated sensor system that projects the field of vision onto the inside of a marine's helmet. Those "eye holes" are just decoration, and no less armored than anywhere else on the helmet.

You can see even in "Ultramarines" that their eye holes have sensors that send data back to them. If ordinary marines have this than Termonators must have some advanced version.
And beside, you really think that they would make one of the toughest armor in the galaxy and leave the eye sections venerable?

But I think that Abrams 125mm can hurt them a little.

Brother Coa wrote:
But I think that Abrams 125mm can hurt them a little.

Why? It's certainly a analogue to a battle cannon, but much more primitive. Since a battle cannon doesn't hurt Terminators, why would that?

I dont't understand how 75mm has so many votes...

The Terminator could possibly laugh himself to death

@Darknesseternal Well, it can certainly hurt them, but generally not kill or penetrate the armor, as a Battle Cannon packs twice the punch a Terminator can handle, however, the armor saves him much more often than not.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:
But I think that Abrams 125mm can hurt them a little.

Why? It's certainly a analogue to a battle cannon, but much more primitive. Since a battle cannon doesn't hurt Terminators, why would that?

I would call the battle cannon more primitive by the looks of it. Although being probably around 150mm+, it still only seems to fire a standard HE round given its large blast radius.

The abrams would be using APDFS, which bascially shoots a depleted uranium arrow with massive amounts of force to penetrate any armor it hits. Its more akin to a Vanquisher (AP2) imo.

dmthomas7 wrote:remeber this is technology created at the least 28,000 years from(assuming it was created around the year 30,00) now essentially longer then current recorded history even goes back. I think that the technology would be too advanced to even think about getting hurt by modern weapons. Even the eye slits are like made of material stronger then a 50 cal sniper round. The understanding of the tech cant be comprehended. I mean serioussly bolters are small rockets around the size of a fist that explode after penetrating. Kinda sounds like those anti tank rounds. I dont believe anything we currently have can even chip a terminators armour. hit him with tank rounds and he will probly start laughing cuz it tickled

That is one view. Another view is that without force fields and exotic matter, there isn't a big amount of difference between Terminator armour and modern day Chobham armour.

The reason being that we are already approaching the point where we need force fields and stuff to make our materials any better. We've pretty much run out of tricks with alloys and composites.

Things do reach a peak and further development with the same technology doesn't help. Cray reached that point at least a decade ago. Moore's Law is breaking down at the moment.

Etc.

So people think these suits can withstand anything up to a mini nuke, but a spindly limbed four armed alien with bone-esque claws can consistently tear terminator suits apart like a tin opener? That seems very wrong to me.

People don't seem to realize just how powerful modern weapons are.

I think the kind of power modern heavy weapons have would be more than enough to deal with terminator armour. If you shoot a terminator suit with a tank round I would put bets on it going right through.

A modern 30mm armour piercing discarded sabot round with a 15mm penetrator sabot core (30mm HV-APDSDU) can chew through 280 - 290mm of hardened armour per round!
These things are scary, at 1000m range they deliver 136,700fpe+ (foot lb) of terminal energy and will hit at over 3,600fps. Even assuming no penetration of the armour, and no internal 'spalling', that kind of kinetic energy alone will create shockwaves that will mush pretty much anything organic in contact with it. Think wearing a metal helmet and getting a space marine to hit it with a sledgehammer.

If the weapon being used has a high rate of fire ( up to 70 rounds per second for some 30mm cannons!) and these rounds were somehow unable to penetrate the armour, and instead are stopped by it (i.e. totally transferring their kinetic energy to it) then that kind of combined force is going to be like crashing a train into the front of the suit and it's going to be blasted a helluva long way from where it was originally standing. (Incidentally the A-10 'Warthog' that utilizes a gatling-type 30mm cannon for destroying armour doesn't use discarding sabot ammo as the chance of the used sabots being eaten by the engines is considered too high, nom nom!)

Scale this effect up as weapon calibre increases, for instance a generic 120mm discarding sabot round (DM53) is throwing some 8kg+ at 4900fps+ at huge ranges. That's a BIG hit, easily enough to flip a terminator suit weighing 1-2 tons (guestimate!) and send it literally flying.

Terminator suits do exactly what they are intended to do: Tear stuff up while making the wearer practically immune to all small arms fire. They aren't designed for prolonged open combat. Personally I think terminator suits would probably be flagged as targets for infantry portable missiles, but that's another discussion!

Luckily all of this is pure conjecture and doesn't matter, what's really important is rolling below that damn armour save!

Agreed, with the above person.



30mm off of a A10 ground support aircraft. Would turn terminators into Swiss cheese.

Ok, two things:

1) Weapons in 40k that can parallel modern munitions today (auto cannon, heavy stubber, battle cannon, Missile Launcher) do little in game to penetrate Terminator armor (only ap 3-5), and

2) Marines are substantially weaker on the tabeltop then they are in the fluff.

Short from a 125mm APDFS (akin to a vanquisher shot), you need total overkill naval style weapons to deal with a Terminator (Demolisher, Bastion breacher shells, ect)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That above round is basically a heavy bolter round. I am sure the Terminators are terrified

xlightscreen wrote:
30mm off of a A10 ground support aircraft. Would turn terminators into Swiss cheese.

And it is common knowledge that every round that is less than standard tank munition (125mm-155mm) is somply bouncing of Terminator armor. So A-10 would fire 500 raound in second on Terminator and 500 rounds will be ricocheted all around him. Only weapons that penetrate this armor are power and force weapons, and some REALLY heavy rounds ( Like Autocannon rounds or MBT rounds).

scubasteve04 wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:
But I think that Abrams 125mm can hurt them a little.

Why? It's certainly a analogue to a battle cannon, but much more primitive. Since a battle cannon doesn't hurt Terminators, why would that?

I would call the battle cannon more primitive by the looks of it. Although being probably around 150mm+, it still only seems to fire a standard HE round given its large blast radius.

The abrams would be using APDFS, which bascially shoots a depleted uranium arrow with massive amounts of force to penetrate any armor it hits. Its more akin to a Vanquisher (AP2) imo.

Hahah, no. No existing conventional weaponry compares to the advanced technology of 40k. The round you describe would be more like a S6 AP4 hit.

Honestly, 40k's tech level is very low for its supposed time period. If you want an example of what real ubertech weaponry looks like, read the Lensman novels. They begin with neutronium axes, powered armor, and inertial dampeners. They end with the Galactic Patrol smashing an enemy planet between two other inertially-cancelled planets like a nutcracker, and then using an entire planet's worth of degenerate matter to wipe out a star.

Alternatively, there's Core Command, where the members of the titular Core Command are issued pocket-pistol sized sidearms that fire compressed singularities and can accurately destroy small spacecraft in orbit from the surface of the planet, or "Stutter Rifles" that fire graviton bursts that tear a target apart at the atomic level.

Kinda makes a glorified gyrojet gun look small-time.

of course those Sci-fi realms have less basis in actual technology.

they decide they want an effect and then make up some tekkie mumbo jumbo that allows them to do that.

40k takes existing and hypothetical scientific theories ans bases their tech around that.


as a result, 40k has more realistic/feasable technology then other sci-fi worlds. lets face it, as of now a Gravitron gun just sounds cool, but has no basis in fact(gravity is the weakest of the atomic forces)

Who voted for 5.56 rounds?

Grey Templar wrote:of course those Sci-fi realms have less basis in actual technology.

they decide they want an effect and then make up some tekkie mumbo jumbo that allows them to do that.

40k takes existing and hypothetical scientific theories ans bases their tech around that.

as a result, 40k has more realistic/feasable technology then other sci-fi worlds. lets face it, as of now a Gravitron gun just sounds cool, but has no basis in fact(gravity is the weakest of the atomic forces)

I'm amused that you're taking the setting where faster than light travel technology literally relies on travelling through Hell and claiming it has more realistic technology than anything.

Let's face it. 40k does not operate on the laws of physics. It operates on one law only, and that is the Law of Awesome. That's why the soldiers of 40k use chainsaw swords to fight demon spider-mecha powered by the souls of the damned. That's also why nothing in modern human technology can penetrate Space Marine armor. It bounces off of the Awesome Field that surrounds all Space Marines and protects them from dying to any weapon that is not sufficiently Awesome.

Except the A-10's GAU-8 cannon. That gun has barely enough Dakka to qualify as Awesome by 40k standards, but only if it's wielded by an Ork.

Having shot weapons up to 7.62x54r (.30cal, standard machine gun round for most Soviet era weapons and the Mosin Nagant) is why i chose the 12.7mm (.50cal). From a fluff standpoint Termie suits shrug off everything thrown at them and still march on but in the game rules Termies are hard to kill but not invincible. Shoot enough Heavy Stubber, Autoguns (modern assault rifle equivilent)at them and they start failing those Armor saves..... That example leads me to believe that men with M2 .50cal MGs, 12.7 Dskh Soviet machine guns, .50cal Barrets could and would eventually drop a termie. Might take a few hundred/thousand rounds but it would happen, and by that time his squadmates would have pulped you.

themocaw wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:of course those Sci-fi realms have less basis in actual technology.

they decide they want an effect and then make up some tekkie mumbo jumbo that allows them to do that.

40k takes existing and hypothetical scientific theories ans bases their tech around that.

as a result, 40k has more realistic/feasable technology then other sci-fi worlds. lets face it, as of now a Gravitron gun just sounds cool, but has no basis in fact(gravity is the weakest of the atomic forces)

I'm amused that you're taking the setting where faster than light travel technology literally relies on travelling through Hell and claiming it has more realistic technology than anything.

Let's face it. 40k does not operate on the laws of physics. It operates on one law only, and that is the Law of Awesome. That's why the soldiers of 40k use chainsaw swords to fight demon spider-mecha powered by the souls of the damned. That's also why nothing in modern human technology can penetrate Space Marine armor. It bounces off of the Awesome Field that surrounds all Space Marines and protects them from dying to any weapon that is not sufficiently Awesome.

Except the A-10's GAU-8 cannon. That gun has barely enough Dakka to qualify as Awesome by 40k standards, but only if it's wielded by an Ork.

40k has "MORE", as in quantitative numbers, realistic Technology then other Sci-fi.


Railguns are real,

Bolters use actual real world technology,

Plasma weapons use the Magnetic Tunnel theory of plasma containment,

Space Ship weapons are mostly railguns of one type or another,

Exterminatus is a combination of Biological and conventional weaponry(unlike other planet killing weapons that cause planets to blast into each other by manipulating gravity which is currently scientifically impossable)

40k Skimmers use Magnetic plates to skim the planets magnetic field(and often have additional thrusters to gain orbit of a planet)

Nah. Those rounds won't penetrate, therefore will be useless. An old sherman with a standard 75mm gun cannot penetrate a Tiger I front armor, even at point blank range. The answer was not keep shooting the front armor until something happens (it wont), but to outflank and hit the side/rear armor.

No 21st century infantry portable weapons will EVER penetrate Terminator armor. You also have to factor in that he won't be standing still either. They have force fields and Teleportation for christ sakes.

scubasteve04 wrote:Nah. Those rounds won't penetrate, therefore will be useless. An old sherman with a standard 75mm gun cannot penetrate a Tiger I front armor, even at point blank range. The answer was not keep shooting the front armor until something happens (it wont), but to outflank and hit the side/rear armor.

No 21st century infantry portable weapons will EVER penetrate Terminator armor. You also have to factor in that he won't be standing still either. They have force fields and Teleportation for christ sakes.

Using the Sherman/Tiger analogy...Shermans could defeat Tigers by shooting them in the sides or rear....Termie suits have joints, vents, tubes, seals...they have weaknesses. 12.7mm AP rounds can blow big holes in modern armored vehicles........(Comparing BDRM and BTR-60s to Terminator armor is thin, i know but not outside the realm of believability)

However unlikely for AP 12.7 rounds to defeat Terminator armor may sound from a fluff standpoint....in the game Termies are killed by Heavy stubbers. Unless we agree that the Heavy Stubber is way more powerful than our 21st century Heavy machine guns...then we have to start looking for the larger Autocannons of todays modern armies....20mm, 25mm, 30mm.