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Basically this ^^

Oh a somewhat related note, Blood Angels look pretty badass in greyscale.

Actually they dont, I'd love to see one 5th edition codex where a space marine does either of those.

Well, I've seen marines get taken down by guardsmen in hth and lasguns. It's rare but it happens. Space marine fluff has gotten way out of control. Movie marines were made to live up to the fluff.

Remember, Spartans can bunnyjump!

[The spartan, because space marines don't exist. They're made-up. ]
Don't tell me you just said that....
I am a Halo Fanatic and a Spess Mahren (Indrick Boreale!) player, but I know that both ARE NOT REAL.
The Marines are pieces of Plastic and in lots of books.
The Spartans are Pixels on a screen and in books.
If you want to be technical, the marines are more real than the Spartans.

Actually, Spartans did exist.

Unless your referring to people from Sparta (in which case your referring to Spartans, not SPARTANS) I'd suggest you consult a mental health expert o.0

I am, in reply to the poster above, who said Spartans are entirely fictional, which isn't entirely true. SPARTANS of course aren't and never have been real.

I think it's a closer run thing than some people think. We put say, the Master Chief against Uriel Ventris, a fairly equal-ish match. Uriel is by far, stronger, tougher, and has better armor and to an extent, weaponry. The Master Chief is faster, with better reaction times, better tactical awareness and has a slight advantage in that he has a temporary shield.

II or III?
What type of armour?
What armour abtiliy?
Why is this on a 40k forum?!

Or SPARTAN I's you never know. I guess he means II though, MIJOLNIR Mark VII, I would take Armour Lock.

In a 'there is a SPARTAN and a marine on a planet hunting each other' scenario then it might be close but in hand to hand I think a regular SPARTAN would have a hard time against a scout (well at least against one who is ready for the black carapace).
A marine is stronger, a lot tougher and probably the same speed (maybe a *little* bit slower) and what exactly can a SPARTAN do to a marine if he doesn't have a weapon?

Use his speed and better reaction times to at least avoid the heaviest attacks whilst putting lighting strikes on the marines less protected belly area, or punch the Marine in the head as he likely won't be wearing a helmet.

A punch in the head will not kill a marine though and even if marines are not as fast as a SPARTAN they are still very fast and have ridiculously good reaction times. Their strength and toughness advantage would win out over the slight speed advantage of the SPARTAN.

I'm not saying that the Master Chief would win in that situation, I'm just saying that it isn't as clean-cut as some people may think.

I also don't think it's just a slight speed advantage. It's quite a big one in my opinion. The Marine's armour slows him down in addition to him being slower to start with. The MJOLNIR armour actually does the opposite, and increases reaction times exponentially when working in concert with an on-board AI like Cortana.

Jaon wrote:

purplefood wrote:

zxwarrior wrote:Well i read into the fluff for spartans and a spartan did get hit by a small nuclear device and lived. techniqally yes and no he doesn't the AI that almost all spartan 2s get helps them in this case. plus they will help them predict their opponents movements in major combat operations and in close combat. Spartans are also trained in many different martial arts.

AFAIK i have read all the background books...
The only incident i remember with a nuke was when

Spoiler:

They used a smallish one to destroy a covenant ship from the inside and were protected from the blast by a ridge

In the same novel

Spoiler:

The Spartans are forced to jump from a pelican whilst it was in mid-air and several died when they hit the ground since their shields failed. They had previously cranked them up as high as it would go

The second spoiler would have been Spartan III's, Spartan II's can survive massive falls, hell, even Noble 6 survives a orbital drop unaided, and he survives that (and hes a Spartan 3 to boot).

Now remember that Boltguns are a lot like brute shots. Except completely automatic. What weapons does a Spartan have that can kill a Space Marine? Well, argueably, rocket launchers, Splasers, Energy Swords, maybe Gravity Hammers, Fuel Rods, and thats about it.

Every single weapon the space marine has will one hit a spartan through his shields.

The shield means nothing. Masterchief lived because he was "lucky"

They were the same series at Chief was...

And come to think of it, the second spoiler is actually referring to SPARTAN II's.

iproxtaco wrote:And come to think of it, the second spoiler is actually referring to SPARTAN II's.

Yeah that's what i said... or at least i thought i had.

iproxtaco wrote:I'm not saying that the Master Chief would win in that situation, I'm just saying that it isn't as clean-cut as some people may think.

I also don't think it's just a slight speed advantage. It's quite a big one in my opinion. The Marine's armour slows him down in addition to him being slower to start with. The MJOLNIR armour actually does the opposite, and increases reaction times exponentially when working in concert with an on-board AI like Cortana.

Except Power Armour actually increases the wearer's speed without hampering agility.

As for punching "the weaker chest-area", the torso is the most heavily armoured part of power armour.

A space marine would destroy a Spartan. Speed in a fight isn't as important as your giving credit for. The space marine has been trained extensively in hand to hand combat and more than likely knows how to deal with a faster opponent. Temporary shields wouldn't last long at all once the marine catches him. The chief wouldn't know how to fight a Space marine, simply because he doesn't know how to deal with it. He wouldn't know any of their weaknesses like the blind spot behind the head or the slightly less armored belly. The marine would simply grab him, and break him in half, or brain him with a rock.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:I'm not saying that the Master Chief would win in that situation, I'm just saying that it isn't as clean-cut as some people may think.

I also don't think it's just a slight speed advantage. It's quite a big one in my opinion. The Marine's armour slows him down in addition to him being slower to start with. The MJOLNIR armour actually does the opposite, and increases reaction times exponentially when working in concert with an on-board AI like Cortana.

Except Power Armour actually increases the wearer's speed without hampering agility.

As for punching "the weaker chest-area", the torso is the most heavily armoured part of power armour.

Few things, Power Armour is known to hamper agility. It's also logical to assume that a massive, heavy and thick set or Armour would at least slow them down. You aren't going to see a Marine jumping around like a Gymnast.
Also, you amazingly managed to mis-quote me. I said 'belly', no chest. The 'belly' area isn't covered by the thick Ceramite chest plate so is essentially a 'weak' spot.

Toastedandy wrote:A space marine would destroy a Spartan. Speed in a fight isn't as important as your giving credit for. The space marine has been trained extensively in hand to hand combat and more than likely knows how to deal with a faster opponent. Temporary shields wouldn't last long at all once the marine catches him. The chief wouldn't know how to fight a Space marine, simply because he doesn't know how to deal with it. He wouldn't know any of their weaknesses like the blind spot behind the head or the slightly less armored belly. The marine would simply grab him, and break him in half, or brain him with a rock.

Speed is a very important thing when dealing with a stronger and better armored opponent. Sure, a marine will be trained to fight hand-to-hand, but there's only so much you can do to predict an opponent as fast as a SPARTAN II. The SPARTAN of course isn't trained to fight an enemy like a Space Marine, but they aren't in-experienced. Hunters? Elites? Both stronger and more heavily armored and they are quite successful against them. Simply by looking at a picture of a Space Marine I can see the belly is less armored. I'm sure the Master Chief aided by Cortana would be able discern the same weak-points.
Again though, I fully expect a Space Marine to win at least 7 times out of 10, but I'm just arguing that it isn't a hands-down affair.

How do you know a Spartan is faster than a space marine? AFAIK marines are fast. I4 fast.

From reading the Halo books, specifically The Fall of Reach, puts the SPARTAN II's at stupidly fast, I mean, dodging bullets at near point-blank fast. Of course the Marine doesn't need to do that.

I never read any of the books, only played the games. Does it say how strong they are? My money is still on the marine simpley because the spartan will not be bale to penetrate its armor with only his fists.

Oh the Marines are certainly stronger. The Spartans are, with their armour on, able to lift several tons. The armour they wear weighs about 1.5 tons already, and they're able to land lightly without a sound. With it, they can then lift several tons above their heads, but the Marines are certainly a fair bit stronger that them.

iproxtaco wrote:Use his speed and better reaction times to at least avoid the heaviest attacks whilst putting lighting strikes on the marines less protected belly area, or punch the Marine in the head as he likely won't be wearing a helmet.

No way man. A Space Marine in itself is scary. But a Marine WITHOUT helmet wears at least 3-times as much plot-armour as a Marine with helmet. And heaven forbid if the Marine would also happen to have an intimidating looking, vertical scar. Then you're surly boned. Those guys are the worst. Not a chance I'd say.

I dont think a marine can lift a few tonnes, he would be better in a fight for sure, but not a chance he can lift a few tonnes. But if the spartan is 1.5 tonnes, than couldnt he just sit on the marine?

That's how much the armour weighs at least, the SPARTAN inside is able to control the weight. I doubt that a few tons would crush a Space Marine in his armour. Learchus is able to lift the back-end of a conveyor truck that must have weighed quite a lot with passengers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Zweischneid wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:Use his speed and better reaction times to at least avoid the heaviest attacks whilst putting lighting strikes on the marines less protected belly area, or punch the Marine in the head as he likely won't be wearing a helmet.

No way man. A Space Marine in itself is scary. But a Marine WITHOUT helmet wears at least 3-times as much plot-armour as a Marine with helmet. And heaven forbid if the Marine would also happen to have an intimidating looking, vertical scar. Then you're surly boned. Those guys are the worst. Not a chance I'd say.

What if said space marine had some unnecessarily big eye replacement? Or an unconventional pipe sticking out of his forehead?

iproxtaco wrote:That's how much the armour weighs at least, the SPARTAN inside is able to control the weight. I doubt that a few tons would crush a Space Marine in his armour. Learchus is able to lift the back-end of a conveyor truck that must have weighed quite a lot with passengers.

Never said crush, it would pin them down. Learchus was standing when he lifted the truck, able to use his legs, arms, chest etc to lift the truck, probably weighed around1.5-2.5 tonnes max. But that was with the power of his whole body. If a spartan sat on his chest, a marine wouldnt be able to lift him off, might be able to rol him of, but wouldnt have the strength to bench press a Spartan

Good point. They then may well be equal in strength and weight, with the SPARTAN being faster and the marine being better protected. I may now be of the opinion that they are almost equal in physical attributes once you balance it out.

Then it comes down to weaponry and terrain. The Astartes has probably a bolter, power sword, bolt pistol. Trade out maybe one for a more advanced weapon (I'd have to go for a Storm Bolter or Plasma Rifle). The SPARTAN has an Assault Rifle, Energy Sword (roughly equal to a power sword) and a pistol (ODST pistol of course), trade out one for a more advanced weapon (Spartan Laser is the obvious choice).

Terrain, I'd say SPARTAN on terrain with more cover, Marine on more open ground.

The Emperor doesn't protect SPARTANs.