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iproxtaco wrote:Good point. They then may well be equal in strength and weight, with the SPARTAN being faster and the marine being better protected. I may now be of the opinion that they are almost equal in physical attributes once you balance it out.

Yeah, unarmed I would give it to the marine simply because the spartan wouldn't be able to crack him open

iproxtaco wrote:Then it comes down to weaponry and terrain. The Astartes has probably a bolter, power sword, bolt pistol. Trade out maybe one for a more advanced weapon (I'd have to go for a Storm Bolter or Plasma Rifle). The SPARTAN has an Assault Rifle, Energy Sword (roughly equal to a power sword) and a pistol (ODST pistol of course), trade out one for a more advanced weapon (Spartan Laser is the obvious choice).

Bolter > Assault rifle. I mean, no one uses assault rifles online if they had a choice. They are under powered and inaccurate. The bolter is more fluffed out, so I gotta give it to the bolter

Power sword > Energy sword. In a drawn out fight, the energy sword would run out of juice very quickly, and both can be activated in about the same speed, so powersword wins

ODST pistol > bolt pistol. It can zoom.

Spartan laser > Storm bolter. Not even a compition, it would be closer to a lascannon in power, but he can run and shoot it so, Spartan laser > Lascannon

iproxtaco wrote:Terrain, I'd say SPARTAN on terrain with more cover, Marine on more open ground.

Yeah spot on, Without cover, the spartan would get shreaded, in mountains, or cover heavy areas like valhalla, then the spartan would prob win

This thread is lame. Next week, someone make Tyranids vs. the Flood. Much more interesting topic.

What about an Elite versus a Space Marine? That would be a more equal on all fields fight.

SkaerKrow wrote:This thread is lame.

YOUR LAME!


Yeah elite vs space marine would be more even, but marine would still win. He's fighting what he is used to, ugly xenos

SkaerKrow wrote:This thread is lame. Next week, someone make Tyranids vs. the Flood. Much more interesting topic.

How about Tyranids vs. Maugan Ra?

Oh.. nm... already know how that one ends

Toastedandy wrote:
YOUR LAME!

My lame what?

^ I lol'd.
Actually, come to think of it, an Elite versus a Space Marine would be an even more mis-matched affair, as Elites are slower, and have inferior armour.

iproxtaco wrote:^ I lol'd.
Actually, come to think of it, an Elite versus a Space Marine would be an even more mis-matched affair, as Elites are slower, and have inferior armour.

Well, how many punches does a weapon-less SPARTAN need to kill an Elite?

SkaerKrow wrote:This thread is lame. Next week, someone make Tyranids vs. the Flood. Much more interesting topic.

I want to see this now!!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
because flood would start making flood tyranid, but then the tyranid would evolve somehow to make sick anti flood units!

During a fist-fight with an Elite, The Master Chief isn't as strong as his opponent, but takes, now correct me if I'm wrong people with The Fall of Reach close at hand, takes three punches to take down the shield, another two or three to penetrate the armour, but kills it with a shot from a plasma pistol.

dajobe wrote:

SkaerKrow wrote:This thread is lame. Next week, someone make Tyranids vs. the Flood. Much more interesting topic.

I want to see this now!!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
because flood would start making flood tyranid, but then the tyranid would evolve somehow to make sick anti flood units!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/377977.page

iproxtaco wrote:I'm not saying that the Master Chief would win in that situation, I'm just saying that it isn't as clean-cut as some people may think.

I also don't think it's just a slight speed advantage. It's quite a big one in my opinion. The Marine's armour slows him down in addition to him being slower to start with. The MJOLNIR armour actually does the opposite, and increases reaction times exponentially when working in concert with an on-board AI like Cortana.

Wrong,


marines are actually faster and stronger in PA then outside of it as the armor has powered servos which increases the power of his actions.


It is true that if it weren't for the servos the PA would be heavy and clumsy to fight it, but its not.

Stronger yes, faster, I disagree. Still not as fast as a SPARTAN II in MJOLNIR with on-board AI, not even close. The servoes as far as I can see, just allow for the Marines to have a greater degree of movement capability which would be hampered by their cumbersome armour.

I would say they are equal.

Lexicanum says a marine can think and react with Lightining speed.



I belive it was mentioned once that the Stats in 40k ascended in orders of magnitude. Str2 is 5 times more powerful then Str1 and so on.


so a marines inititive would be 5 times greater then a regular humans or something.



I would say a sparten has the same reaction time and speed as a marine.

I very much disagree on speed and reaction times. A SPARTANs reaction times are said to be unbelievable, it's increased an by an order of magnitude by their armour, then with an on-board AI, it goes up even more, I mean hitting a missile in made air, running stupidly fast, dodging bullets at point-blank fast. Lexicanum saying they're lighting fast isn't really proof, and neither are in-game rules.

Spartan. power armour equivalent and genetic enhancement far in advance of marine. plus the sheilds in the armour. if these get knocked down he can just armour lock till they recharge.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Zweischneid wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:^ I lol'd.
Actually, come to think of it, an Elite versus a Space Marine would be an even more mis-matched affair, as Elites are slower, and have inferior armour.

Well, how many punches does a weapon-less SPARTAN need to kill an Elite?

2.
1 for the sheild.
1 for the ugly bastard

We don't have blow by blow descriptions of a Sparten's enhancements do we?


we do for Space Marines.



the Sparten's frame alone means its impossable for him to have greater strength.

as for armor lock, thats only going to stop the marine for a short time.



as for dodging point blank bullets, never saw that in game. I belive that is a physical impossability as they would necessatate a movement speed in excess of the speed of sound.

iproxtaco wrote:I very much disagree on speed and reaction times. A SPARTANs reaction times are said to be unbelievable, it's increased an by an order of magnitude by their armour, then with an on-board AI, it goes up even more, I mean hitting a missile in made air, running stupidly fast, dodging bullets at point-blank fast. Lexicanum saying they're lighting fast isn't really proof, and neither are in-game rules.

Supersonic Jets (at least speed exceeding 343 m/s, 1,125 ft/s, 768 mph or 1,236 km/h, probably more) in 40K travel at 36" turn. A running/charging Marine does up to 12" in the same turn. Thus, a running Space Marine runs at least 115 m/s, 375 ft/s, 256 mph or 412 km/h. Assault Marines or Raven Guard Marines get another 50%. A charging Raven Guard Assault Marine could achieve up to 512 mph or 812 km/h according to that calculation. Q.E.D.

Oh.. and the Marine can also punch the Jet at the end of the sprint.

said Supersonic jets arn't traveling at supersonic speeds.

Grey Templar wrote:said Supersonic jets arn't traveling at supersonic speeds.

Alright. Let's triangulate from another measure, shall we?

Assume a Bolter has a range/RoF equivalent to a modern assault rifle. The M16 rifle for example has an effective point target range of 550 to 600 meter. The equivalent would be the Boltguns 24" far shot. Now, a charging Raven Guard Assault Marine can cover this distance in the time it takes a highly trained solder with decades, even centuries of experience to fire a single shot as he forgoes movement (e.g. one game turn). Assuming M16 minimum RoF sustained would be about 15-20 shots a minute; one shot every 3-4 seconds. Dividing the range covered by both the bullet and the RG Assault Marine of 600 meters by 3 seconds yields a speed of about 200 m/s (717 km/h).

The regular Marine would be in the range of 100 m/s (358 km/h). Slighly slower than the supersonic approximation, but about the same magnitude if you allow for errors of measurment (and we have been rather generous in the assumptions after all)!

Thats all well and good, assuming the measurements are all to scale........gw is good at scales.....right?

These scales are all messed up.


we can't use the in-game distances for these things.

Well, if in-game rules and measurments cannot be used, yet descriptive "fluff" statements stating that they are, indeed, "lighting fast" are equally discarded, what basis do you suggest?

iproxtaco wrote: Lexicanum saying they're lighting fast isn't really proof, and neither are in-game rules.

Zweischneid wrote:Well, if in-game rules and measurments cannot be used, yet descriptive "fluff" statements stating that they are, indeed, "lighting fast" are equally discarded, what basis do you suggest?

Roshambo?

Well it's clear what we have to do...
1 side start to form the UNSC and bring about the political and social conditions necessary to create Spartans.
The other side build a alternate reality machine and break through the walls of the universe so we can grab a Space Marine for a short while.
We then meet on Gibraltar at 3:33 BST and combat shall begin... it shall be filmed and put onto YouTube 4 years later so we can avoid suspicion.

Lexicanum says alot of things.

Lighting fast is a metaphor, doesnt mean they are actually as fast as lightning. It is NOT a descriptive fluff statement. Just an overused metaphor. Marines are faster than a human, no doubt, but you REALLY truely believe they can run 412KMPH?! My car cant even do that.

Toastedandy wrote:Lexicanum says alot of things.

Lighting fast is a metaphor, doesnt mean they are actually as fast as lightning. It is NOT a descriptive fluff statement. Just an overused metaphor. Marines are faster than a human, no doubt, but you REALLY truely believe they can run 412KMPH?! My car cant even do that.

I certainly believe they can go faster then your car.

Monster Rain wrote:

Zweischneid wrote:Well, if in-game rules and measurments cannot be used, yet descriptive "fluff" statements stating that they are, indeed, "lighting fast" are equally discarded, what basis do you suggest?

Roshambo?

Roshambo
1. A very common name for the game Rock-Paper-Scissors (see Rochambeau). Also written Row-Sham-Bo.

2. A game created by the TV series South Park where two people hit each other in the crotch until one either falls down in pain or simply gives up.

Dawi-Marine'Va wrote:

Toastedandy wrote:Lexicanum says alot of things.

Lighting fast is a metaphor, doesnt mean they are actually as fast as lightning. It is NOT a descriptive fluff statement. Just an overused metaphor. Marines are faster than a human, no doubt, but you REALLY truely believe they can run 412KMPH?! My car cant even do that.

I certainly believe they can go faster then your car.

Yeah, I can probably run faster than my car, but do you know how fast 412kmph really is? its pretty damn fast.

iproxtaco wrote:Stronger yes, faster, I disagree. Still not as fast as a SPARTAN II in MJOLNIR with on-board AI, not even close. The servoes as far as I can see, just allow for the Marines to have a greater degree of movement capability which would be hampered by their cumbersome armour.

Nope, its said many times in fluff that a SMs PA increases both the speed and strength of the user.
ie. It is said by onlookers that they are surprised by the sheer speed and agility of a SM (when looking at them wearing their armour stationary, and then in combat)