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Toastedandy wrote:Lexicanum says alot of things.

Lighting fast is a metaphor, doesnt mean they are actually as fast as lightning. It is NOT a descriptive fluff statement. Just an overused metaphor. Marines are faster than a human, no doubt, but you REALLY truely believe they can run 412KMPH?! My car cant even do that.

I certaintly don't think he can run that fast, but certaintly as fast as a Sparten.

how fast can they run?

15.3130907 MPH. Thats master chief so I guess all of them are around the 15 mark

only 15 MPH???

thats not very fast at all.

Nerivant wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:
40k has the interesting perspective of having already had robots turn on them and as such have basically banned them. only having the most basic AI systems that rely on organic componants.

CoughcoughButlerianJihadcoughDunecoughcough.


A Space Marine could break a SPARTAN in half.

Anything written by the son of the original Dune author, is absolutely terrible though.

iproxtaco wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:I'm not saying that the Master Chief would win in that situation, I'm just saying that it isn't as clean-cut as some people may think.

I also don't think it's just a slight speed advantage. It's quite a big one in my opinion. The Marine's armour slows him down in addition to him being slower to start with. The MJOLNIR armour actually does the opposite, and increases reaction times exponentially when working in concert with an on-board AI like Cortana.

Except Power Armour actually increases the wearer's speed without hampering agility.

As for punching "the weaker chest-area", the torso is the most heavily armoured part of power armour.

Few things, Power Armour is known to hamper agility. It's also logical to assume that a massive, heavy and thick set or Armour would at least slow them down. You aren't going to see a Marine jumping around like a Gymnast.
Also, you amazingly managed to mis-quote me. I said 'belly', no chest. The 'belly' area isn't covered by the thick Ceramite chest plate so is essentially a 'weak' spot.

The fake power armor worn by sisters and Inquisiters hamper agility. The black carapace of the Space Marines allows them to move as if the armor was a second skin. It doesn't help them though they can jump as far as they normally could and they don't train to be gymnasts, but they can move at their normal speed. It still isn't a straight up Space mairines win because the spartans armor enhances his ability a lot. I think if they duked it out unarmoured with no weapons space marine hands down, but armoured I think 7 out of 10 is a good estimate

Well first of what Chapter is it? And what if the SM is a Psyker?

Space Marines will win because this is Dakka Dakka. If you went to Bungie's web site, the Spartans would win, and if you go to Blizzard's web site, a single Firebat can kill both without blinking.

"Power armour is the standard protection for Space Marine
warriors and its distinctive outline casts fear into the enemies
of Mankind. Made from thick ceramite plates and electrically
motivated fibre bundles that replicate and enhance the
movements of the wearer, power armour offers some of the
best protection the Imperium can"

From the Space Marine codex I have downloaded, page 102.

It replicates and enhances the movements of the wearer.

It does not hamper agility nor reaction-time.

themocaw wrote:Space Marines will win because this is Dakka Dakka. If you went to Bungie's web site, the Spartans would win, and if you go to Blizzard's web site, a single Firebat can kill both without blinking.

lol, NOT TRUE! all the world knows the greatness of the Imperium and the angels of Death! just kidding, i do actually realize that you are correct

I have to say the Spartan would win. Descriptions of SMs never coincide, and all of them are getting increasingly exaggerated. Jes Goodwin even said so.

Spartans take nastier hits from things far more powerful than a SM and they get right back up as their shields recharge. Thanks to their shield, Spartans have no weak points in their armor. A Spartan could probably punch a SMs head off since they have no shield. If a SM appeared in a Halo game, it would be a very minor boss.

Spartans are what SMs should have been. Instead, they chose to wear awkward, clunky, goofy, bell-bottom armor, and will therefore be forever inferior. Nobody who looks at PA truly believes that the wearer can actually move unhindered... This is why they had to redesign the armor in the Ultramarines movie. They couldn't realistically animate humanoids who wear armor like that... And even with the redesign, it retards their range of motion.

Archonate wrote:I have to say the Spartan would win. Descriptions of SMs never coincide, and all of them are getting increasingly exaggerated. Jes Goodwin even said so.

Spartans take nastier hits from things far more powerful than a SM and they get right back up as their shields recharge. Thanks to their shield, Spartans have no weak points in their armor. A Spartan could probably punch a SMs head off since they have no shield. If a SM appeared in a Halo game, it would be a very minor boss.

Spartans are what SMs should have been. Instead, they chose to wear awkward, clunky, goofy, bell-bottom armor, and will therefore be forever inferior. Nobody who looks at PA truly believes that the wearer can actually move unhindered... This is why they had to redesign the armor in the Ultramarines movie. They couldn't realistically animate humanoids who wear armor like that... And even with the redesign, it retards their range of motion.

Can someone explain to this guy that SPARTANS want's to be a Space Marine when he grow's up...
And how are Space Marine tough in fluff...

On the subject of speed, our favorite SPARTAN II was only slightly slower that a missile.

According to the Halo games, The only Canon imo, an elite or spartan punching another spartan shorts (or sends critical) the sheild.

And another thing is Mjolnir even true power armour? yes it has a shield but isn't it just the equivalent of carapace underneath?

Space marine one-two punch, one; sheild shorted, two; goodbye spartan head!

The spartan would break his hand on the space marine armour.

Then again a spartan can flip a 60 tonne scorpion tank lol!

It is powered armour...
Therefore power amour.

Perkustin wrote:According to the Halo games, The only Canon imo, an elite or spartan punching another spartan shorts (or sends critical) the sheild.

And another thing is Mjolnir even true power armour? yes it has a shield but isn't it just the equivalent of carapace underneath?

Space marine one-two punch, one; sheild shorted, two; goodbye spartan head!

The spartan would break his hand on the space marine armour.

Then again a spartan can flip a 60 tonne scorpion tank lol!

It's basically a more advanced, albeit some-what weaker, kind of power armor.

Archonate wrote:I have to say the Spartan would win. Descriptions of SMs never coincide, and all of them are getting increasingly exaggerated. Jes Goodwin even said so.

Spartans take nastier hits from things far more powerful than a SM and they get right back up as their shields recharge. Thanks to their shield, Spartans have no weak points in their armor. A Spartan could probably punch a SMs head off since they have no shield. If a SM appeared in a Halo game, it would be a very minor boss.

Spartans are what SMs should have been. Instead, they chose to wear awkward, clunky, goofy, bell-bottom armor, and will therefore be forever inferior. Nobody who looks at PA truly believes that the wearer can actually move unhindered... This is why they had to redesign the armor in the Ultramarines movie. They couldn't realistically animate humanoids who wear armor like that... And even with the redesign, it retards their range of motion.

Except for the fact that a SPARTAN gets one-shot by any melee attack from behind.

Perkustin wrote:
Then again a spartan can flip a 60 tonne scorpion tank lol!

Bungie has stated that a SPARTAN can't actually flip a tank; and it's for game balance.

Nerivant wrote:

Perkustin wrote:
Then again a spartan can flip a 60 tonne scorpion tank lol!

Bungie has stated that a SPARTAN can't actually flip a tank; and it's for game balance.

One Space Marine can open a Baneblade like tin can....

Not to mentione that MC can't do anything against power weapons ( even shields wouldn't help him there )...

And for the record, it seems that in the new fluff Space Marines would have shields to ( see Space Marine game ).

iproxtaco wrote:
Few things, Power Armour is known to hamper agility. It's also logical to assume that a massive, heavy and thick set or Armour would at least slow them down. You aren't going to see a Marine jumping around like a Gymnast.
Also, you amazingly managed to mis-quote me. I said 'belly', no chest. The 'belly' area isn't covered by the thick Ceramite chest plate so is essentially a 'weak' spot.

I apologise for the mis-quote, but it really doesn't matter, the belly area is included in the torso, which is the most heavily armoured part of the armour. Furthermore, the Deathwatch core rulebook makes it perfectly clear that Power Armour makes barines faster without sacrificing agility and even goes as far as to include a bonus to the movement speed of a marine in PA because of this. So no, Power Armour isn't "known to hamper agility" and it isn't at all logical, considering the synthetic muscles inside, to assume that wearing PA would slow a marine down. Considering that you as a Blood Angel in Deathwatch have access to the acrobatics skill I wouldn't say that a marine jumping around like a gymnast is impossible, they've just got better stuff to do than show off.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:
Few things, Power Armour is known to hamper agility. It's also logical to assume that a massive, heavy and thick set or Armour would at least slow them down. You aren't going to see a Marine jumping around like a Gymnast.
Also, you amazingly managed to mis-quote me. I said 'belly', no chest. The 'belly' area isn't covered by the thick Ceramite chest plate so is essentially a 'weak' spot.

I apologise for the mis-quote, but it really doesn't matter, the belly area is included in the torso, which is the most heavily armoured part of the armour. Furthermore, the Deathwatch core rulebook makes it perfectly clear that Power Armour makes barines faster without sacrificing agility and even goes as far as to include a bonus to the movement speed of a marine in PA because of this. So no, Power Armour isn't "known to hamper agility" and it isn't at all logical, considering the synthetic muscles inside, to assume that wearing PA would slow a marine down. Considering that you as a Blood Angel in Deathwatch have access to the acrobatics skill I wouldn't say that a marine jumping around like a gymnast is impossible, they've just got better stuff to do than show off.

The Deathwatch book is the de facto place to get information on the Astartes. The armor that Astartes wear enhances their strength, endurance, and agility. In fact, to an Astartes, it's almost like the armor isn't actually there, as long as it has power - the synthetic muscles built into the suit move in conjunction with the Astartes thanks to the Black Carapace.

So, while the bulk of the suit may prevent the Astartes from moving like a gymnast, they certainly can move quick enough to handle a Spartan.

(And I am so ashamed of myself for posting on this thread.)

Zweischneid wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:Use his speed and better reaction times to at least avoid the heaviest attacks whilst putting lighting strikes on the marines less protected belly area, or punch the Marine in the head as he likely won't be wearing a helmet.

No way man. A Space Marine in itself is scary. But a Marine WITHOUT helmet wears at least 3-times as much plot-armour as a Marine with helmet. And heaven forbid if the Marine would also happen to have an intimidating looking, vertical scar. Then you're surly boned. Those guys are the worst. Not a chance I'd say.

My god, mind if I save that quote?

Well the biggest argument I am seeing for SPARTANs is speed, and I think that goes out the window considering most space marines are trained to fight faster foes such as eldar or dark eldar.

As for SPARTAN shields I do not think they would last too long with a space marine punching it, hell it only lasts two blows from behind .

But since there are too many fanboys on both sides I will say this, the winner is whoever Creed says it is, and if they disagree with him they will find a Titan coming out of their collective nethers.

Nerivant wrote:

Perkustin wrote:
Then again a spartan can flip a 60 tonne scorpion tank lol!

Bungie has stated that a SPARTAN can't actually flip a tank; and it's for game balance.

Nerivant..... Oh young Nerivant......

Hint: The lol at the end of my statement was on purpose.......

Well how about the Space Marine being a thunder hammer storm shield terminator grey knight. What would a spartan do now.

mr.ultramarine wrote: Well how about the Space Marine being a thunder hammer storm shield terminator grey knight. What would a spartan do now.

Suit up in plot armor

mr.ultramarine wrote: Well how about the Space Marine being a thunder hammer storm shield terminator grey knight. What would a spartan do now.

The same thing he does to Brutes carrying Brute Hammers?

themocaw wrote:

mr.ultramarine wrote: Well how about the Space Marine being a thunder hammer storm shield terminator grey knight. What would a spartan do now.

The same thing he does to Brutes carrying Brute Hammers?

Get killed? You guys seem to be forgetting what level difficulty the SPARTAN is set on. On "legendary" mode a few shots and you're dead, especially from plasma weapons that killing power originates from heat, sound familiar? *cough lasgun cough* if we're talking about SPARTANs on multi-player setting they get one hit killed from a rocket and what do bolters shoot? mini-rockets. The whole AI thing is useless since the only SPARTAN that has an AI in his armor is MC, but then you wouldn't be able to apply multiplayer physics to a campaign character. Sure SPARTANs might be faster than a space marine,but what is he going to do since bullets are faster and space marines fail to hit only1/3 of the time. If he gets within CC distance what is he going to do then? You seem to be forgetting that these guys have this huge backpack so if an ambush came from behind the SPARTAN would have to climb up onto the marine, provided the marine lets him, just to do some damage. From the front is just plain suicide.

So who would win? neither, both were alpha legion agents.

Spartans get war gear, space marines get war gear, and what edition are we talking about? A SM character with a power field from 2nd ed has a 2+ fixed saving throw against all ranged attacks, and if they have a displacement field they get a 3+ fixed save period. Lets not forget wargear like vortex grenades and things like terminator armor. A powerfist alone could physically crush any xeno in any armor since they can rip apart tanks.

Perkustin wrote:

Nerivant wrote:

Perkustin wrote:
Then again a spartan can flip a 60 tonne scorpion tank lol!

Bungie has stated that a SPARTAN can't actually flip a tank; and it's for game balance.

Nerivant..... Oh young Nerivant......

Hint: The lol at the end of my statement was on purpose.......

Huh, I've never had to interpret "lol" as "I realize what I'm saying is only from a gameplay perspective, and has no bearing on this conversation, which is from a fluff perspective. Instead, it is simply a humorous observation from the game."

I'll keep that in mind.

Nerivant wrote:

Perkustin wrote:

Nerivant wrote:

Perkustin wrote:
Then again a spartan can flip a 60 tonne scorpion tank lol!

Bungie has stated that a SPARTAN can't actually flip a tank; and it's for game balance.

Nerivant..... Oh young Nerivant......

Hint: The lol at the end of my statement was on purpose.......

Huh, I've never had to interpret "lol" as "I realize what I'm saying is only from a gameplay perspective, and has no bearing on this conversation, which is from a fluff perspective. Instead, it is simply a humorous observation from the game."

I'll keep that in mind.

Lol = Laugh out loud. Thus, what is said is to be funny.