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Kanluwen wrote:Pft. HBMC never 'wins'. He just shouts the loudest.

Keep telling yourself that sunshine.

In other news, did you notice how you were telling Samus (and everyone) that they couldn't have Hrud as an army? How we're not allowed to have it because, via your own opinion, they have 'absolutely no potential, at all, as an army'. I'm so glad you cleared that up for us. I mean, here we all are wondering if the Hrud can be an army, but you - the mighty Kan - are here to remind us of what we can and cannot have based on... uhh... based on your own opinion I guess. Yeah.

Platuan4th wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Some SM codexes need to be cut or amalgamated before another xenian faction can be introduced.

As opposed to the 3 Chaos books, 2 Human, 2 Undead, and 3 Elf books for WHFB?

Seriously. The SM codices aren't going anywhere. There's no need for anything to be cut, just like there's no real need to introduce another "xenian faction" just for the sake of having another one.

Numbers mean nothing. Content means everything.

As dirty as it makes me feel(good thing I'm about to go shower to shave, eh?), I have to agree with Kan.

3 chaos/2 human/2 undead/3 elf vs. 6 Space Marines books? At least the fantasy books have significant differences to one another (compared to space marines), and are spread out across factions.

For those not familiar with fantasy:

3 Chaos books: Beastmen, Warriors of Chaos, Daemons of Chaos. There is some minor overlap in a couple of the books, to the effect of one or two units (MAYBE) out of a total of say 16-24 per book, but the playstyles are completely different (moreso than saying that one space marine book is shootier or more assaultier than another), as are the statlines, magic abilities, composition, etc.

2 Humans: Brettonians and Empire. There is really no similarity here, other than they both happen be human factions. The playstyles, themese, look, units, etc. are all completely different from one another. The closest you'll get to a similarity is the fact that the Empire allows you to take a unit of knights, which are similar in name and appearance to the knights that make up a large chunk of a brettonian army, and thats pretty much it.

2 Undead: Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings. Again the only real similarity is that they are undead. The Vampire Counts are the wet undead (zombies, ghosts, ghouls, etc.) while Tomb Kings are dry undead (skeletons, etc.). The magic and playstyles are significantly different, as is the look and feel of each army.

3 Elf books: Dark, High, and Wood elves. Here we have perhaps the most similarity between High and Dark Elves, but there are still significant differences. Wood Elves are something else.


Contrast this to 6 Marines: Codex, Dark Angels, Black Templars, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, and Grey Knights. Okay, I'll give you that each book has a somewhat different playstyle, but for the most part everything else is rather interchangeable. There is a high commonality of units from book to book, with few exceptions, a largely similar organization, etc. Okay, a couple books have some pretty unique game changing units available, but is it enough to really warrant that many books? The two armies that stand out the most are Space Wolves and Grey Knights (I can't comment on Black Templars since I literally know nothing about their rules other than the fact that they move forward when they fall back and only have a basic understanding of the fluff).

And you came so close to getting the point.

Out of those 6 Marine books (of which you're really cooking the books by including Grey Knights, since it's "Grey Knights and Inquisition", but whatever), the 3 most recent ones are very different compared to the three earlier ones.

Black Templars, Dark Angels, and Codex all suffer from the fact that they were what they had to work from when doing the rest.
If they were to be redone to encourage different playstyles and give specific benefits along with specific equipment/signature units so that you can't play the ridiculous "Gray Robed Wolf" game where people constantly hop from one Marine dex to the next with little to no change in model setup, just points costs and base equipment...then you might not see all this constant "We need less Marines!" crap.

If this rumour has any truth to it (hopeful) I can finally have a fluff-based purging campaign against the Hrud with my Iron Warriors before the slaughter on Olympia. My pre-heresy miniatures will have a purpose!

However like they say: An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded

The point I was trying to make (rather weakly) was to spread the love a bit. I have nothing against Marines getting 6 books... but I want Chaos Marines/Chaos in general to get a couple more books too.Is it to much to ask for some legion specific (whether it be one book or 8) codecies, a book like the current one for renegades/a lost and the damned/traitor guard type book, and a book for daemons? I want the eldar to get the full treatment too, where are exodite and crone world eldar codecies (not to mention Harlequins which I dont consider to be worthy of their own full book).

People are taking this seriously?

Alpharius wrote:Could be BoLS BS...
But hey, at least they posted it first!

Actually they didn't (they never do).
It was posted by ghost21 when he supposedly leaked that there are two or three new armies in the works. Was mentioned in the 6th edition thead.

Don't have the time to repost it, maybe in 12 hours or so.

If we see the Hrud, or somehow the Umbra, I'd put money that they'll show up in the Tau codex. I really don't see them adding a race of scavengers to 40k as a serious contender who can go toe to toe with the central armies. That'd be like saying the Jawas were a serious threat to the Empire on Tatooine.

This just in; Umbra kits to be filled with 30 25mm bases, you supply the shadow.

Retail price £22.50

Medium of Death wrote:This just in; Umbra kits to be filled with 30 25mm bases, you supply the shadow.

Retail price £22.50

I thought this was part of GW's new ShadowCast range. The finest quality miniatures in the world, but only the smartestest most cleverestest GW loyalists can see them.

Medium of Death wrote:This just in; Umbra kits to be filled with 30 25mm bases, you supply the shadow.

Retail price £22.50

I think you're confused by what the Umbra are. They have a physical form, a black featureless orb:



I get the joke you were trying to do, but it would have been funnier if you had centered it around GW selling 2-3 marbles for 5 times what you can get an entire bag for at a toy store.

bhsman wrote:People are taking this seriously?

Looks like it.

I call BS on the whole thing. People SAY that they want them, but remember- we're talking about GW here.

They said the "Squats got eatened up bys the Nids...."

They already Purged the Hrud,as well. One of those Space Marine chapers had a crusade against them and wiped them all out, so they can move in and get some prime Real Estate or something.

I don't remember the chapter,though, thought I read it in the Marine Codex.


Then theres the little tidbit about the "Slann."


We haven't heard ANYTHING about the Slann since maybe 2d edition, Rogue Trader.


I've got as much faith in this one as I do in the Pan Foo....





Because......

The Hrud did have a crusade launched against them, but due to their nature they were almost impossible to eradicate completely, and there in a reference to the Hrud 'swallowing up outer Imperial Space'

Well according to my FLGS manager this is a false rumor from GW intentionally to try and throw off the gaming community, though I only have him as a referance on that

Murdock129 wrote:Well according to my FLGS manager this is a false rumor from GW intentionally to try and throw off the gaming community, though I only have him as a referance on that

What, like Space Hulk not being the mystery release in 2009?

Gw"Intentionally" throwing off the gaming community?


No, they'd NEVER DO THAT!!!

They don't even need to throw up gak like this to do that, either.

Leigen_Zero wrote:And Bell of Lost Souls themselves are saying that they don't really trust it:
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2011/06/40k-rumors-what-tangled-web-we-weave.html

Might as well quote the part that they said caused them not to trust it:

LittleBird wrote:Alright, story time.

My "source" (let's call him Mr. Black because it sounds cool) has been leaking small tidbits to his friends for years, with the understanding that we keep things under wraps and not say anything until it becomes public knowledge on the internet. He's a cool guy and we want him to keep his job. One of the guys in my group is a poster on Warseer and he leaks like a soggy teabag, though. Mr. Black suspected this, but it wasn't that big of a deal because most of the information he shares with us is either confirmations of rumors that are already out there, it's small stuff that most people wouldn't care that much about (fluff, internal workings, etc). Well, Mr. Black has a laptop, and on that laptop are the next 2-3 unreleased codices plus plenty of other work-related stuff. When Mr. Black went to the restroom one day without locking his laptop, our leaky friend snuck a peak at the unreleased GK codex and leaked a ton of rumors onto Warseer. He didn't get caught at first, but suspicions were running high. Later as a test, Mr. Black told Leaky about some new information he'd heard from on high (all of it completely BS), and sure enough the next day it's all over Warseer under the same account name as the guy who leaked the GK rumors.

Now that we have confirmation that Leaky is a ****, he is being fed a lot of utter BS to see how gullible he is and/or how long it takes him to realize that he's been caught red-handed. I don't know Leaky's screenname but people who frequent Warseer might be able to take a stab at it.

That said, I haven't talked to Mr. Black in a few weeks and have no idea if this Hrud information is legitimate or not. Basically I'm just giving the rumor mill a bit of a warning.

TL;DR: Be wary of what you read on Warseer.

Grot 6 wrote:Then theres the little tidbit about the "Slann."


We haven't heard ANYTHING about the Slann since maybe 2d edition, Rogue Trader.

IMO, the fluff in the Necron codex suggests the Old Ones were in fact the Old Slann. I don't think the references to astromancy and "cold-blooded wisdom" were accidental. But that's off-topic.


Back on topic, I guess I'm more inclined than some here to believe that Hrud *could* happen. I dunno if I woulda believed someone telling me back in 2000 that 40K was going to get a new army of semi-communist, noseless humanoids with anime-styled gear and major firepower, with vehicles named after fish. Sounds silly when stated that way, right? Not saying that Tau are a bad concept at all, just that presentation matters and rumors rarely present something properly.

Now, I'm not holding my breath on Codex: Hrud, but I'd be willing to buy that it's something the studio has at least conceptually kicked around a little. Why not? They probably have concepts for all kinds of things floating around the studio.

Does the game *need* another army? Heck no. Then again, I dunno whether the game really needed a Codex: GK, and it happened anyway. *shrug*

tetrisphreak wrote:They're also saying that there's a high chance this is a false lead planted by someone to cause confusion.

A new race would be great, but I want to see the current 16 codicies supported more.

Not quite, the poster on BOL said that there is rumor monger on WARSEER who has been fed alot of false info by his source (whom he pissed off previously). This rumor monger supposedly posted a bunch of valid rumors concerning GREY KNIGHTS previously. The poster said he doesn't know the rumorn monger's moniker on WARSEER. The poster then states that he has no idea if the HRUD rumors are true or not.

Now Ghost 21 has been the only person on Warseer releasing info on HRUD. He has NOT posted any rumors about GREY KNIGHTS on WARSEER (as a member of Warseer, I can check all his past posts --- and did). So either the BOLS poster is talking about someone other than Ghost21 OR he is being misleading.

In regards to the 6th edition rumors leaked...they were leaked on BOK not WARSEER...though Ghost 21 and Tastytaste have both said that some of the rumors lined up with what they had previously heard from other sources.

I'm not trying to validate any rumors or rumor mongers by any means, I am just trying to clarify the BOLS post.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

htj wrote:Who are the 'normally reliable posters' the article mentions? Anyway know? I'd check my self, but my work-filter blocks Warseer.

The article doesn't mention any "reliable posters" it just comes out swinging blindly

Alright, story time.

My "source" (let's call him Mr. Black because it sounds cool) has been leaking small tidbits to his friends for years, with the understanding that we keep things under wraps and not say anything until it becomes public knowledge on the internet. He's a cool guy and we want him to keep his job. One of the guys in my group is a poster on Warseer and he leaks like a soggy teabag, though. Mr. Black suspected this, but it wasn't that big of a deal because most of the information he shares with us is either confirmations of rumors that are already out there, it's small stuff that most people wouldn't care that much about (fluff, internal workings, etc). Well, Mr. Black has a laptop, and on that laptop are the next 2-3 unreleased codices plus plenty of other work-related stuff. When Mr. Black went to the restroom one day without locking his laptop, our leaky friend snuck a peak at the unreleased GK codex and leaked a ton of rumors onto Warseer. He didn't get caught at first, but suspicions were running high. Later as a test, Mr. Black told Leaky about some new information he'd heard from on high (all of it completely BS), and sure enough the next day it's all over Warseer under the same account name as the guy who leaked the GK rumors.

Now that we have confirmation that Leaky is a ****, he is being fed a lot of utter BS to see how gullible he is and/or how long it takes him to realize that he's been caught red-handed. I don't know Leaky's screenname but people who frequent Warseer might be able to take a stab at it.

That said, I haven't talked to Mr. Black in a few weeks and have no idea if this Hrud information is legitimate or not. Basically I'm just giving the rumor mill a bit of a warning.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kroothawk wrote:
It was posted by ghost21 when he supposedly leaked that there are two or three new armies in the works. Was mentioned in the 6th edition thead.

Don't have the time to repost it, maybe in 12 hours or so.

Please do

Platuan4th wrote:

Medium of Death wrote:This just in; Umbra kits to be filled with 30 25mm bases, you supply the shadow.

Retail price £22.50

I think you're confused by what the Umbra are. They have a physical form, a black featureless orb:

Nah, they can explode into awesomeness if angered:


I wish it were Enslavers and Umbra, but the background supports the Hrud and Umbra together.

My main skepticism is that these rumors of Umbra allying with the Hrud greatly support the only few facts known about these races thrown into the background of the fluff. I'm surprised GW even cares about these races.

I don't see the Hrud as a viable (by that I mean marketable) race. Or the Slann. You're going to have to have some absolute GENIUS visionary GW artist to make frog-men cool and Dan Abnett quality writing to change the fluff to reflect either race having enough numbers and technology to justify armies of them.

Then again, Hrud may be the 40k version of Ratmen. As much as everyone might want to deny or ignore it, 40k is still very much "Warhammer in Space". Bring back the Squats and give them a name I can pronounce. That's my vote. Forge World's Chaos Dwarves could easily double for Squats or Demiurg or whatever you want to call the evil little people.

Personally, the recent flood of rumours by ghost21 sounds weird to me. Not saying that they are false or posted to fool us, but I wouldn't be surprised if the above Mr. Black is right that ghost21 is fed utter BS by his sources (although ghost21 denies being that person and Wyoimingfox says ghost21 didn't post on Grey Knights). But my spider sense is tingling and I am sceptical ATM. That's why I felt no motivation to post these rumours. Anyway, first a summary of his Hrud rumours by MrSatan over at Warseer:

This will be a thread to compile and discuss the upcoming Hrud army thats going to be released with the new edition next year. This was brought to light in the 6th edition rumor thread by Ghost and backed by BramGaunt.

Firstly big thanks to Ghost as pretty much all so far has came from him but I am hoping the other rumormongers will also pitch in! The idea of a Hrud force has really caught my attention as I have always been a big fan of them. Please don't let this degenerate into trolling and wishlisting and I will update this thread as more info comes to light!

Firstly for reference heres the current Hrud info:
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Hrud

MOST RECENT INFO (GHOST):

-Will probably be a white dwarf teaser list and then a full codex. Look out for hints in upcoming WD's
-The Umbra WILL be in the army
-There will be at least one vehicle described as a tunneler modified for war (tunneling rules a la trygon perhaps?)
-Rules for 'entropic fields' that probably reduce stats of those in range
-They have units named/such as Triads, Blades, Shamans, Paths
-They are described as a 'steamroller' type force withe tactic such as 'shoot retreat shoot , ambush'
-Background-wise they are described as an ancient race that are pissed because they lost their homeworld to slaanesh, the umbra are said to be fragments of their God (Q'ah) that was destroyed by Slaanesh. They hate Chaos with a passion.
-They are described as having distinct tribes with each tried bein visually different/sub-species
-Possible Lovecraftian flavours to the army, mentions of shoggoth-like creatures

Thats all, again this is pretty much all from Ghost so far. If anyone including Ghost has anything to add feel free to post/PM me and I will keep this up to date.
Many Thanks

Here a collection of original posts (he has been leaking info somewhat cryptical, starting 21st June):

urm (you do know theres going to be 2 new "armies" right to add to that list?)
hides (...)

BramGaunt wrote:As far as I know "Traitor Legions" and "Holy Inquisition", that is.

one is "warp" based the other isnt marines (...)
i wish i could tell you it was enslavers but it isnt (...)
they both exist in fluff.... n thats all i can nod too (...)
i can asure you the legion dex will have alot of varation
really its not marines of any type
and why would umbra suck? really they wouldn't (...)
i meant the new army is not marines of any type spikey or non
im not talking about legions (...)

Theocracity wrote:Does the new army generally fit with the concept of Order vs Chaos we've been hearing? Any indication which side it falls on?

order (but marines thought they killed em)

my_name_is_tudor wrote:Zoats?

urm.... i wish (...)
i only mean order as in they want to blat chaos
ps one person got right
edit it not squats (...)

Zothos wrote:My money is on Interex.

my money isnt

MrSatan wrote:I'm sure the hrud were meant to have been wiped out during the crusade? Right Ghost?

thats correct (...)
to clarify there is a traitor legion dex
there are also 2 other dexes one of chaos hateing dark orb worshiping subterainans

expect extensive cult lists but not books, same with other legions (...)
a cult legion list is significantly different to a cult list .. if you catch my meaning (...)

lungboy wrote:Genestealer-Cult list?

eventually but expect it to be wd only (...)
honestly there will be a cult list that you pick n choose , one way will be genestealers the other chaos , or as far as i understand
not exactly a full list but close enough to please people (and i did say eventually)

Old concept art by Jes:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=113031&d=1308792262

Pic from Xenology:


Other pic from old 40k rulebook (2nd IIRC):

Last pic is from 3rd, Kroot.

Kanluwen wrote:
Pft. HBMC never 'wins'. He just shouts the loudest.

Mr. Kirk, my irony meters are going off the charts


I think the Hrud would be cool, except I'm just trying to figure out exactly what niche they would fill.

What this game REALLY needs is some sort of pirate/mercenary faction that isn't the Dark Eldar. the Dark Eldar are just in a little sector, I would expect human mercenaries or pirates to be everywhere.

Yeah, remember now. Before Kroot were released in the Tau Codex.

Grot 6 wrote:Then theres the little tidbit about the "Slann."


We haven't heard ANYTHING about the Slann since maybe 2d edition, Rogue Trader.

Nope, not since the 4th edition rulebook, you are right! Wait, what? Oh, Hrud are in there too.

I'm taking this with some salt but remaining hopeful. I'd love for there to be more xenos races if the slann have some old one technology, which is arguably the most advanced in the galaxy.

I went ---->
When I found out that people actually believe this. This and the wishlisting gone wild that's called "6th edition rumors"

If they want a new race, give us Mechanicum.

Tasty at Blood of Kittens has mentioned addressing both these rumors and the 6th Ed. rumors floating about tomorrow.