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H.B.M.C. wrote:*looks at current 'Chaos' Codex*

Well... it certainly can't get any worse can it?

Wait... who would be writing it? Not... him...

Who gives a flying feth? As long as the book is playable, I'm cool with the iron warriors building a planet sized robot that warps around the galaxy or the alpha legion subjugating another 6 chapters of loyalists.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Nah, he'll write it that Aby and his crew get together for a 14th Black Crusade, a Black Crusade that's specific target is Draigo himself - he's just that destructive! Think about it, he puts togther a Chaos 'Dream Team', of Aby, Kharn, Lucius, Ahriman, Typhus, the Planet Killer and a fully activated Blackstone Fortress. I'd still put money on Draigo though. The guy is armageddon incarnate!

You forgot the obligatory unlikely alliance.

Say... Abaddon + Harlequins? That sounds about right.

ph34r wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:*looks at current 'Chaos' Codex*

Well... it certainly can't get any worse can it?

Wait... who would be writing it? Not... him...

Who gives a flying feth? As long as the book is playable, I'm cool with the iron warriors building a planet sized robot that warps around the galaxy or the alpha legion subjugating another 6 chapters of loyalists.

Lot's of people give a flying feth, "playability" isn't the only thing to look for in a codex...course maybe your the type of guy that would be cool with Batman's backstory being altered so he was bitten by a radioactive bat and failed to save his Grandmother...so long as he still had all the cool " bat-gadgets".

Slayer le boucher wrote:
And also hope that we get a new Zerker plastique sprue,the one we actually have is more then 15 years old!

And as ugly as Nurgle's rear end. I haven't liked the current Berserkers for 15 years (has it really been that long?). The running one looks like he's tap dancing. The toothy "snarl" looks more like a dunce that's been caught with the fly down on his power armour.

Anyway, I may buy the book/s, but until GW rescind the trade embargo, they won't be seeing any model purchases from me.

ph34r wrote:Who gives a flying feth?

A lot of people.

But you knew that already.

Noisy_Marine wrote:

MadCowCrazy wrote:Hmm, so what happened to the Tau we have been hearing about? What of a proper release for the Sisters?

Silly Tau, new books are for marines.

Spaghetti Chef wrote:'Bloode foar tha Bloode Goad! Skools foar that Skool throon!' - Spaghetti Chef during the Skalathrax Pastry Hoedown

Excellent News! I wonder what new and shiny kits we will get...

Gah! Warseer doesn't tolerate any relevant news&rumour threads in their 40k news&rumour forum! Makes it difficult to find the relevant info there, as rumour posters have no thread to post in over there.

This was part of the 6th edition leak:

first real 6th edition codex: Codex Chaos Legions, really big release in three waves, doesn’t invalidate Codex Chaos Space Marines which gets extensive White Dwarf update as Codex Renegade Space Marines

This is what ghost21 posted in that thread:

ghost21 wrote:urm (you do know theres going to be 2 new "armies" right to add to that list?)

BramGaunt wrote:As far as I know "Traitor Legions" and "Holy Inquisition", that is.

to clarify there is a traitor legion dex (...)
i can asure you the legion dex will have alot of varation

Some speculation by magnum12 when he posted BoLS stuff in the (now closed) Warseer thread:

Does fit with rumors about Renegades getting a WD codex to tide them over. Huron Black Heart would most likely be moved to the Renegades codex.

Things in favor of rumor being true:
1. IIRC some major GW employee said something way back about really wanting to do Chaos Legions to better represent the original traitor legions. Also might of said something about if it were to be done it would be shortly before 6th edition.
2. Whenever GW adds in a new faction, it is ALWAYS either the last or second to last codex/army book before a new edition comes out. Precedent: Ogre Kingdoms (WFB) and Chaos Daemons (40k)

Note: Does not seem to conflict with rumors about the Tau release since current intel said something about them being Q2 2012 IIRC. This could mean that Black Templar will be the token Space Marine first codex for 6th.

Speculation ahead: If my theory about fine casts and soon to be codicies is true, then we can rule out plastic Plague Marines and Raptors as well as a new Abbadon. Somehow I get the feeling this is going to be a BIG project so we may get lots of models for it. If this rumor is true, then IMO, the most likely units to get new plastic kits are Thousand Sons (hybrid IIRC), Noise Marines (hybrid IIRC), Dreadnaught (super ancient model), Havoks (hybrid), and a new unit. My money's on the Hell Blade as its both a new flyer and IIRC in the fluff, one of Abbadon's ideas.

Author is currently unknown. If this rumor is true, I'm going to predict it will be Phil Kelly.

Holy Inquisition? Let's delve into that one a little deeper.

if kelly writes it.... I'm down At least its not.... he-who-shall-not-be-named.... >.> <.<

I wouldn't be surprised if Codex: Chaos Space Marines became the (long overdue) successor to the Lost and the Damned list. If they're going to pull some of the more Legion specific stuff out of C:CSM they'll need to replace it with something, and adding mutants/cultists as a prominent part of the CSM book would immediately differentiate it from an all Power Armored Renegade Legions book.

If Phil Kelly writes the new codex then I will wet myself with chaotic glee.

I think you'd want this post 6th Edition. Not only to avoid it being diluted by 5th Edition, but also because you won't get the full colour hardback version which I expect will be the Codex format post 6th.

Unless of course you'd prefer not remortgage your house to buy a codex.

SkaerKrow wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if Codex: Chaos Space Marines became the (long overdue) successor to the Lost and the Damned list. If they're going to pull some of the more Legion specific stuff out of C:CSM they'll need to replace it with something, and adding mutants/cultists as a prominent part of the CSM book would immediately differentiate it from an all Power Armored Renegade Legions book.

That would be absolutely awesome

H.B.M.C. wrote:Wait... who would be writing it? Not... him...

Crack of lighting....

DUN DUN DUN!!!!

I miss mixing in useful demons with the marines.

Snickerdoodle wrote:I miss mixing in useful demons with the marines.

Maybe they'll bring it back for the four Chaos God specific Legions (and Word Bearers). It would shift more plastic after all.

Brother SRM wrote:If Phil Kelly writes the new codex then I will wet myself with chaotic glee.

Personally, I'd be hesitant, for a couple of reasons. First is that it may end up like Space Wolves, tacky naming conventions and becoming *the* bandwagon power-gamer army for years. Second is that he ends up trying to make up for the SW fiasco, and then it ends up being too much like the current book.

Though that said, I'm not thrilled about any of the current choices for authors

Well Cruddance IMO would be the worst of the three by a noticeable margin.

Aside from being Sir Wolfalot, I prefer the style of fluff in Kelly's but I think Ward writes the best balance of the three even if the technical rule writing leaves a lot to be desired - plus it being Chaos makes me more disposed to handle the over-the-top fluff style than most other races.

I don't even play CSMs, but I'm hoping Phil Kelly is on the job. What do CSM need?

Better balance across the army list and more build diversity? Check, Phil's the best in the studio at that.

Flavor throughout the army list that fits the fluff? Check, Phil's the best in the studio at that too.

Better overall conceptual approach to Chaos (ie. Renegades vs. Legions vs. Daemons)? Check again.

Nothing against the other designers, but I think it'd be very good for the game for Phil to be in charge of this one (and maybe even Chaos in general like he was with CE and DE).


I dunno if anyone remembers the marketing mantra that GW had before the v3.5 codex, but it was all about "restoring Chaos as the main threat to the Imperium." Think we're gonna see a replay of that with this one. Gonna be a big release.

Vaktathi wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:If Phil Kelly writes the new codex then I will wet myself with chaotic glee.

Personally, I'd be hesitant, for a couple of reasons. First is that it may end up like Space Wolves, tacky naming conventions and becoming *the* bandwagon power-gamer army for years. Second is that he ends up trying to make up for the SW fiasco, and then it ends up being too much like the current book.

Though that said, I'm not thrilled about any of the current choices for authors

Pft.

It could be Cavatore, Thorpe, Haines, or Chambers. They were just as bad as the current choices for authors.

gorgon wrote:Better balance across the army list and more build diversity? Check, Phil's the best in the studio at that.

SM, GK and BA are all better than SW at that.

SkaerKrow wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if Codex: Chaos Space Marines became the (long overdue) successor to the Lost and the Damned list. If they're going to pull some of the more Legion specific stuff out of C:CSM they'll need to replace it with something, and adding mutants/cultists as a prominent part of the CSM book would immediately differentiate it from an all Power Armored Renegade Legions book.

Would be nice, although I'm not holding my breath. Still, if the GK army list can get =I= henchmen units, there's no reason why a Traitors unit can't be added. And certainly the marching orders in the studio seem a little different now compared to when LatD were axed. Old and whacky stuff is coming back into the game now. So who knows?

Personally I'd like to see Mutants (and more Daemon engines) added to a new Daemons book to make it a proper Daemonworld codex. None of this would be the same as a real LatD codex, but some of the bases would be covered...

Given how everyone and their warphound has gone Horus Heresy crazy (forgeworld, black library.. lots of players doing pre-heresy stuff) i'd think it likely that they redo Chaos marines to be a b it more threatening/cool.

There's far less bragging rights in announcing that your (fill in loyalist chapter here) beat Chaos Marines, as it stands.

The Chaos legions handed the loyalists their asses (until the final showdown), and the codex needs to reflect that.

New models would also be good !

Ascalam wrote:The Chaos legions handed the loyalists their asses (until the final showdown), and the codex needs to reflect that.

Oh dear, I hope that you're not advocating an overpowered Chaos Codex based upon Horus pulling off a semi-successful sneak attack 10,000 years ago . We need a balanced, interesting Codex that gives players a wealth of options to assemble a characterful Legion based army, one that competes well with the current field without dominating it. We don't need Codex: "CHAOS SMASH!" .

as long as my iron warriors get all the nice imperial guard artillery and thudd guns i'll be happy

snake wrote:

FITZZ wrote:

snake wrote:I am not sure I understand. What will the difference between the Legion book and the current codex be?

Well , primarily ...the Legion book will have actual Legions in it...

In other words, you'll be able to build characterful Legion armies, which you really can't do with the current...mess.

As in a dedicated Khorne list, a Night Lords list, etc.?

What will happen to all of the Khorne, etc., options in the old codex then?

The old Codex, as I understand, was focused on "Chaos Renegades" or to put it another way, J. Random Space Marine unit that suddenly decides Chaos isn't so bad after all, let's try it, and hey where did that tentacle come from?!?

Basically, The idea that small groups of Space Marines occasionally fall under the influence of the dark powers.

They could still be in all sorts of builds as far as dedication to various Chaos gods: A groupthat wants to be the best warriors is ultimately opening itself up to Khorne, while a group that specialized in looking into ancient secrets and psychic abilities might fall to Tzeentch.

Done right it shows the insidious nature of Chaos. It's not always millenias-old nightmares returning from the Eye of Terror. It could be the Heroes of the Imperium who just last year did some amazing act of heroism on Planet XYZ, who went a little too far and now they've broken from the strain and started enjoying going out into that howling plague-ridden wasteland.

And, ultimately, if the Adeptus Astartes are corruptible, who could be immune to the influence of Chaos?

The Legions are a bit different, to me. They've sold their souls so long ago they're barely even human in the best of cases. They're fueled by anger, hatred, and a need for revenge against the Imperium they feel wronged them. They're also a bit more regimented: The Thousand Sons are very unique due to the Rubric of Ahriman: they're not just a bunch of Space marines with a sorcerous bent, but a very messed-up force of automatons and masters of the dark arts.

Ideally the "Chaos Renegades" and "Chaos Legions" should probably have been developed together and have some interconnections, but GW went a different route. Doing them together would have opened up a chance to fit some Lost and the Damned in: I still feel the 'ideal' basic Chaos force should be traitor Guard with Chaos Space Marines as elites and possibly commanders to show that they're more of a mob than the loyalists.

Kanluwen wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:If Phil Kelly writes the new codex then I will wet myself with chaotic glee.

Personally, I'd be hesitant, for a couple of reasons. First is that it may end up like Space Wolves, tacky naming conventions and becoming *the* bandwagon power-gamer army for years. Second is that he ends up trying to make up for the SW fiasco, and then it ends up being too much like the current book.

Though that said, I'm not thrilled about any of the current choices for authors

Pft.

It could be Cavatore, Thorpe, Haines, or Chambers. They were just as bad as the current choices for authors.

Haines at least got the feel right, if not the balance. Haines' book was excellent in it's portrayal of the Chaos Space Marines, even if the balance was silly.

To me, the portrayal of the army and expressing that in the army book is more important than raw power, so if they can put out an "ok/mediocre" list in terms of power that feels like a proper Chaos Space Marine army, I'll live with it easier than if it ends up like the Space Wolf book where it's powerful as hell but often plays more like IG gunlines, Eldar psyker lists, or Iron Warriors armies than Space Wolves, the fluff is increasingly atrocious, and everyone and their dead mother has rushed out to play them as a power-list.

If the author can do the former, I'll be happy, however I'm not entirely sure of any of the current author's abilities to do this well. Ward's fluff has been atrocious, and while Phil Kelly often puts out great work, the SW fluff, as his last SM book, was beyond painful. Cruddace's fluff has been merely so-so and his armies have significant internal balance issues.

Cruddace is, in my opinion, terrible.

The man brought back hot-shot lasguns, created the Vendetta Valkyrie variant(WHY?! WHY DID YOU DO THIS? Just use the freaking Vulture!), and removed lasguns from sergeants.

I hates him. I hates him much.

I've read where these rumors originated, and nowhere did I see anything about March of next year. All the comments seemed to be that there were going to be two new codex's next edtion.

Just wondering where the date came from?