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for the thread starter whats your local META that usually answers everything with people and their attitude toward a new book.

Crons need a new book definitly some point trimming WBB rules that are clear, clean up the gauss rules. give them a little more viareity in weapon load outs, and some mods to the general HQ's as well as some useful nammed ones would be nice.

while the book maybe the oldest with necrons survive ability they arent hurting too bad, atleast in our local META some guys wont play the necron players at all, its kinda funny

Hopefully they do get a good codex. I'm looking into starting another army as I'm finding that it takes me way too long to paint Orks to the standard that I like. Ugh...

It'd be nice to have an army that I can assemble and paint in a weekend. Plus, I've already got a theme picked out...

Terminator red-eyed Necrons on Skull Bases? feth yes!

KingmanHighborn wrote:

bazookatooth wrote:The models are just to costly (points wise) and it way to easy to phase the crons out. New dex for sure!

Only a few things are overpriced but things like Flayed Ones. Destroyers, Lords, Monoliths, are actually underpriced for what they do, and warriors are a bargin at 18 points a pop when you compare them to a 16 point marine.

Lollerskates!

On everything but the Monolith (which is very points efficient) I don't agree with any of this.

Particularly with the Warriors being compared to Marines. Yes, let's compare shall we?

Necron Warrior:

WBB
Necron Type
Gauss Flayer

Space Marine:
ATSKNF (Big deal, this!)
Initiative 4
Squad Upgrades
Bolter
Bolt Pistol
Combat Squads
Combat Tactics
Available Transports

Yeah, Warriors are a bargain alright. Shall we compare Warriors to a 15 Point Grey Hunter?

Monster Rain wrote:

KingmanHighborn wrote:

bazookatooth wrote:The models are just to costly (points wise) and it way to easy to phase the crons out. New dex for sure!

Only a few things are overpriced but things like Flayed Ones. Destroyers, Lords, Monoliths, are actually underpriced for what they do, and warriors are a bargin at 18 points a pop when you compare them to a 16 point marine.

Lollerskates!

On everything but the Monolith (which is very points efficient) I don't agree with any of this.

Particularly with the Warriors being compared to Marines. Yes, let's compare shall we?

Necron Warrior:

WBB
Necron Type
Gauss Flayer

Space Marine:
ATSKNF (Big deal, this!)
Initiative 4
Squad Upgrades
Bolter
Bolt Pistol
Combat Squads
Combat Tactics
Available Transports

Yeah, Warriors are a bargain alright. Shall we compare Warriors to a 15 Point Grey Hunter?

I completely agree here. Many people think that the necrons WBB balances everything when in all fairness it dosent. Our weapons are your standard bolter that auto wounds or glances on a 6, big whup. We have a varient of FNP on most of our models. This accounts for a disproprtionall amount of our cost. We have no transpot capability and when almost any enemy with even a hint of combat ability gets close we get torn to shreds. We dont have the firepower to take down terminators and snipers eat us up for breakfast.

That is the price you pay.You need new tactics.

Without a doubt. Thats why I play them like I do. But like vamps in fantasy, when there is only one way left to sucessfully play then then they need a makeover. There is no reason to be reduced to depending a single cheese tactic to win a standard game.

Deadshot wrote:That is the price you pay.You need new tactics.

What is the price one pays for what exactly?

And enlighten us as to the tactics we should be using, would you?

Yoou don't have to resort to a single tactic.Just think differently.Do stuff you wouldn't normally do.Within reason.

Deadshot wrote:Yoou don't have to resort to a single tactic.Just think differently.Do stuff you wouldn't normally do.Within reason.

You really need to use your space bar more.

Again, what does any of that have to do with the points efficiency of Warriors vs. Marines, or frankly anything that anyone is talking about? I do just fine with Necrons, but I'm not going to sit here and act like their Codex couldn't use an update.

The points difference between Warriors and Marines has not changed. Check that it's gone up, when crons were introduced marines cost was 15. The basic cost of a Tac marine now is 18 pts. 17 for a whole squad. If you subtract the cost of the ML and Flamer you are right back at 15 pts.
In summary the points difference now and at release is the same. That's how crons were designed.
The problem exists in that crons were designed to preform two editions ago. The update to thier codex will probably include an update for WWB, new army entries, and a points cost play tested in THIS edition.

Even if the points cost for Space Marines and Necrons where the same, the Warriors are still woefully inadequate. Even moreso when compared to Grey Hunters.

I don't play Necrons, never have, but I have 2500 points of figures staring at me from behind plexi-glass in the game room. So my opinion means squat.

Now, I'm aware that with a new codex comes the possibility of new miniatures and maybe, at least one good sit-down cogitative constitutional worth of reading material.

Not to mention the endless hours of entertainment I get from reading all the angst filled posts generated by a new codex.

Bring it on Matt Ward!!!

Deadshot wrote:That is the price you pay.You need new tactics.

Vindicare-Obsession wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

KingmanHighborn wrote:

bazookatooth wrote:The models are just to costly (points wise) and it way to easy to phase the crons out. New dex for sure!

Only a few things are overpriced but things like Flayed Ones. Destroyers, Lords, Monoliths, are actually underpriced for what they do, and warriors are a bargin at 18 points a pop when you compare them to a 16 point marine.

Lollerskates!

On everything but the Monolith (which is very points efficient) I don't agree with any of this.

Particularly with the Warriors being compared to Marines. Yes, let's compare shall we?

Necron Warrior:

WBB
Necron Type
Gauss Flayer

Space Marine:
ATSKNF (Big deal, this!)
Initiative 4
Squad Upgrades
Bolter
Bolt Pistol
Combat Squads
Combat Tactics
Available Transports

Yeah, Warriors are a bargain alright. Shall we compare Warriors to a 15 Point Grey Hunter?

I completely agree here. Many people think that the necrons WBB balances everything when in all fairness it dosent. Our weapons are your standard bolter that auto wounds or glances on a 6, big whup. We have a varient of FNP on most of our models. This accounts for a disproprtionall amount of our cost. We have no transpot capability and when almost any enemy with even a hint of combat ability gets close we get torn to shreds. We dont have the firepower to take down terminators and snipers eat us up for breakfast.

Okay lets see Warrior and Marine are both 4s on S, T, WS, BS, LD Both are 3+ in save, and they get WBB on a +4 that gets another chance if they are teleported through a monolith. They also have base LD 10 compared to the marines' ld 8 even if it is backed up by ATSKNF which is rarely a big deal as they still run they just can't be ran over.

None of this matters in points anyway, it's just distractions:
Combat Squads
Combat Tactics

So moving on...the only things Marines beat Crons on is ATSKNF, and Initiative. Weapon options are not factored as I'm comparing a basic marine to a basic cron warrior. The gauss weapon though is far and above better then a basic bolter, sure glancing isn't what it used to be, but you can still mess up a marine player's day when his pricey raiders and rhinos are immbolized and have weapons blown off. Thier assault isn't that bad, as thier WS and S are as good as a marine, thier Int is the only advantage for the marine mano e mano.

That said this is also why I'm fine with them getting 'some' upgrades like weapon options, and 'maybe' a transport but I think the monolith serves them fine enough for the purpose. But the basic core of their army and rules are fine and the bottom line is they are NOT overpriced.

Combat Squads and Combat Tactics actually matter a great deal.

You can't just dismiss them out of hand when comparing the units.

I am with Rain here.In KP missions,Combat Squads is a curse(when used of coarse),but in objective based missions,it is a boon,forcing your opponent to split fire and giving you twice as many scoring units.

Tactics allow you to fall back from a combat you can't win,such as a Combat Tac squad amongst 30 orks.If even 1 survives,you can fall back and allow your army to fire on the mob,without relinquishing a KP.

@kingman

with the necron warrior/monolith formation you just mentioned you have opeaned a points gap between us of about 235 points. with that even a marine player can take some effed Inqusition items. The exorcist alone from the witch hunters is enough to screw any monolith plan if played correctly. The problem is not who is better here its who is more versatile and every codex is more versatile than crons at this point.

Jeez I am saying I agree on the versatility, but they are NOT overpriced on the models they DO HAVE. I'm fine with tweaking phase out, and WBB as WBB is still op IMHO. As well as newer models, but for what they do an 18 point necron warrior is a bargain.

No Necron warriors aren't a "bargain". There are mediocre at shooting ( no special weapons, no heavy weapons, autoglance and autowound are unreliable ) and suck in close combat ( low ini, no special weapons and yay, getting annihilated when losing cc is so much fun for an 18 points Necron warrior ).
So, what exactly are Necron warriors supposed to be good at? Soaking up damage? Cause that's the only thing they can actualy do.

You have to be kidding me, they are elite at shooting, thier accuracy is every bit as good as marines. And they only suck against CC orientated armies. (read: Marines) They are still toughness 4, so most non marine armies need 4s to hit and 5s to hurt them, then they get a 3+ save, and a WBB. I've seen 10 hold up and destroy a 30 something through hormagaunt brood. And oh even if they do get get ran over they can just teleport and get a reroll on WBB and shoot what assaulted them the next turn. It literally takes a MEQ assault dedicated unit to beat them in CC. 18 is FAIR.

And oh even if they do get get ran over they can just teleport and get a reroll on WBB and shoot what assaulted them the next turn.

If I'm not mistaken they are removed from play when they got ran over as the sweeping advance rule states.

I'd like to see more units for Necrons... they have so few models I think

Void__Dragon wrote:I don't think the crunch will be terribly bad, with the exception of apparently the recent Sisters "codex," which was apparently written by Ward

Actually Cruddace wrote the rules section, Ward just wrote the fluff.

Melissia wrote:

Void__Dragon wrote:I don't think the crunch will be terribly bad, with the exception of apparently the recent Sisters "codex," which was apparently written by Ward

Actually Cruddace wrote the rules section, Ward just wrote the fluff.

Ah, I see.

That seems kind of backwards.

Melissia wrote:

Void__Dragon wrote:I don't think the crunch will be terribly bad, with the exception of apparently the recent Sisters "codex," which was apparently written by Ward

Actually Cruddace wrote the rules section, Ward just wrote the fluff.

...and that makes it better how?

Your SoB's rules won't be fethed to kingdom come.

Cyrax wrote:

And oh even if they do get get ran over they can just teleport and get a reroll on WBB and shoot what assaulted them the next turn.

If I'm not mistaken they are removed from play when they got ran over as the sweeping advance rule states.

Indeed, no WBB if you get swept.

As for Warriors being good at shooting: No, they're really not. Average range with a slight chance of hurting big things isn't that good.

If the unit gets wiped (either from shooting or just getting mauled in cc or some other way) they dont get a wbb anyway unless there is another unit of the same type within either 6 or 12 inches, I dont remember which and no the res orb does not effect this.

The only thing that can be said for our shooting is yes, comparatively we are accurate, yes our basic troops weapons are better than most, no we do not have the level of anti infantry or anti armor weapons that most armies do.

For our cc, yes we do have a trained fighters ws, yes we do have a superhumans strength and toughness, no we do not have the cc options to make it so we survive in cc, no we do not have the number of attacks needed to do well, and our intiative is low so we have less attacks to swing back with.

Necrons can be deadly to mech armies,as even the Warriors can glance LR enemy monolithes.


Question:If a weapon that is gauss can penetrate on a 6(ie-Guass cannon on a rhino),does it glance or penentrate?

Then this weapon penetrates. Also, from what I heard, Gauss weapons aren't so hot anymore because glances are just much less dangerous. In 4th ed. I think a glance could wreck a vehicle. Now you need a 6 on an open topped vehicle to do this. Since an average d6 roll is 3 if I recall correctly, most of the time you are going to get just shaken results. And it looks like EVERY necron player treats Warriors like a point handicap that you have to live with, and there's a reason for that.

For context KingmanHighborn is the guy who thinks having 2 res orb lords and a Monolith in range of a squad gets you 4 WBB attempts so he's not really arguing in good faith.