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As I mentioned before, £5k is going to get you all you need to scan and print. Even if the price of the printers drop no more, the quality quality will improve. You get a better result for the same money. That's still a tiny fraction of the cost of what GW has spent.

I certainly don't think anybody is running around saying it's going to happen tomorrow, but it's going to happen and changing your business model when you are the size of GW will take time to plan and impliment. Will they stick their head in the sand? Will they leave it too late? Or do they have a plan already? I have a feeling options one & two are more likely with them

I haven't read all the responses yet to this thread, but frankly I'm a little bit intimidated by this new technology.
Now, I'm not what you would call a luddite. I use a number of electronic gadgets, from my desktop to my laptop to my iPod. However, I wonder if eventually switching over to 3D printing could pose as something that could ruin some people's lives.
If one could do this sort of thing at home, it would only be a matter of time before the current school of thought for sculpting anything is quickly dashed away by something that makes it almost too easy for the average joe to produce from his garage. I mean, the current sculptors must take some quantity of pride in their work, and they had to work years and years just to get to the level they are currently at. And I start to wonder if this will make them obsolete.
I guess my main problem is that it somehow takes away the human factor in it and replaces it with a machine, which after awhile almost makes the entire process and idea moot point. Perhaps I could just be entirely pessimistic about the entire premise, but surely someone out there shares some of my sentiments?
/rant

RiTides wrote:
And it's working! My first decent print

But... does it work and make a whistle?

even if it wont be detailed enough you could just print the big minis(that makes no sense).

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/jan/26/pirate-bay-3d-printing

The community recently had its first run-in with copyright law when tabletop battle games company Games Workshop issued DMCA takedown notices against Thingiverse, a site where "makers" share designs.

Games Workshop spokesman Kyle Workman said: "We are very protective of our intellectual property, and our legal team investigates each issue on a case-by-case basis."

Asked whether the company might ever consider selling its own digital 3D designs, he said: "That would be nearly impossible, unless the customer had plastic, metal and resin casting equipment."

.. the comments are somewhat amusing too

On a seperate note, Gamesworkshop seems an odd choice for filesharers to start with. I thought part of the geeky joy was trying to piece little bits together while avoiding the constant danger of supergluing your fingers together, not waiting for pristine models to print out. Where's the skill?

The prices. To field an army in Games Workshop is several hundred pounds ten years ago when I last played. I hear the prices have risen considerably since then. I think it's more that they're first in the firing line - they make high priced models which require only a scanner and 3d printer of sufficient resolution to replicate. Objects with electronics or other complex machinery, not to mention those requiring chemical compounds, will take more sophisticated machinery to replicate.

Dr. Temujin wrote:I haven't read all the responses yet to this thread, but frankly I'm a little bit intimidated by this new technology.
Now, I'm not what you would call a luddite. I use a number of electronic gadgets, from my desktop to my laptop to my iPod. However, I wonder if eventually switching over to 3D printing could pose as something that could ruin some people's lives.
If one could do this sort of thing at home, it would only be a matter of time before the current school of thought for sculpting anything is quickly dashed away by something that makes it almost too easy for the average joe to produce from his garage. I mean, the current sculptors must take some quantity of pride in their work, and they had to work years and years just to get to the level they are currently at. And I start to wonder if this will make them obsolete.
I guess my main problem is that it somehow takes away the human factor in it and replaces it with a machine, which after awhile almost makes the entire process and idea moot point. Perhaps I could just be entirely pessimistic about the entire premise, but surely someone out there shares some of my sentiments?
/rant

I wouldn't worry about that, just ask anyone that's made the switch from traditional media to digital. Tools like photoshop or Zbrush don't really replace anything you don't already have . Good art is still very much determined by an individuals ability.
If this technology becomes more accessible, I honestly can't see business as usual continuing for companies like GW. A .pdf with rules and .3ds models wouldn't cost anything but time and effort to create, giving smaller, independent studios a chance to compete. It might actually be a good thing for everyone!

Dr. Temujin wrote:
If one could do this sort of thing at home, it would only be a matter of time before the current school of thought for sculpting anything is quickly dashed away by something that makes it almost too easy for the average joe to produce from his garage. I mean, the current sculptors must take some quantity of pride in their work, and they had to work years and years just to get to the level they are currently at. And I start to wonder if this will make them obsolete.
I guess my main problem is that it somehow takes away the human factor in it and replaces it with a machine, which after awhile almost makes the entire process and idea moot point. Perhaps I could just be entirely pessimistic about the entire premise, but surely someone out there shares some of my sentiments?
/rant

Doesn't GW already design some stuff on CAD? I may be wrong on this but I think they may do this to a degree to make the moulds for some of the plastic parts?

More on Pirate Bay and printing....

http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2012/01/25/pirate_bay_s_physibles_section_enters_the_world_of_3_d_printing_.html

Edit: As I slowly begin to learn more about this tech, the implications are mind blowing.

You're right Easy E, what these guys are suggesting is that in the future you could literally print anything - footwear, car parts, even food. I believe it's already possible to 3D print metal, I've even read that they ar experimenting with printing body parts/tissues for surgery. The implications as you say, are mindblowing. Maybe in the future there will be no more shops, you just order anything you want on line, go to your nearest 'printing facility' (in your own home?) and get it there, no need to transport anything, no need to wait - it is the stuff of science fiction, but then 100 years ago so were many things we take for granted today.

yeah,
there are lots of 3d food printers... but they basically seem to mostly squirt chocolate!

found this image though while browsing 3d printers today.


Panic...

Panic wrote:yeah,
there are lots of 3d food printers... but they basically seem to mostly squirt chocolate!

found this image though while browsing 3d printers today.


Panic...

But this boils down to the core issue. It isn't the technology, it is the people who pirate 3d models or make 3d models of copyrighted creations. Basically the theft and 'free exchange' of other people's ideas.

I would support if an artist chose to sell his 3d ORIGINAL model for printing. But people don't have the right to have any model they want printed in 3d for free which is basically where people always go with this issue. And because the theft will be so rampant, the legal and useful applications of this technology will hampered. I would walk into GW today and pay them the same exact price I do now for a box of orks if I could digitally pose and render them in-store and have them come out as solid one-piece models ready for painting. I want models which do not fall apart and I can put my own creative ideas in by attaching different 3d bitz to my model.

I don't want access to these single piece 3d prints if it means theft or stealing from the copyright holders which is what that 3D terminator is.

I think it’s worth noting that this isn’t all in the future. My all printed warmachine army crossed 35pts yesterday. I printed it all in my apartment on hardware costing <$700. I’ve open sourced all the models I’m using on thingiverse.com.
Of course the detail quality isn’t the same you can get with official GW or PP models but the potential is rapidly growing. There were a number of exact copies of GW models on thingiverse a while ago but they got taken down. In the interest of avoiding copyright problems I’m intentionally trying not to make my models resemble the official ones.
http://imgur.com/a/F2y9H

yeah,
Zarquon thos prints are pretty cool. Well done. And welcome to dakka!



The quality is nowhere near good enough for something i'd like to collect and paint.
This is what I'm expecting from my prusa once built.
I got the final part in the post today, the hot end.
I Just need to find time to build and calibrate it now. ( very excited! )
And I can easily see myself printing off a army to playtest it before buying the official models.

nkelsch wrote:
I don't want access to these single piece 3d prints if it means theft or stealing from the copyright holders which is what that 3D terminator is.

yeah,
I agree I want GW to make it's money as I love the hobby and their product.

My main reasons for building a 3d printer are;
1) it's fething cool!
2) to see if I can.
3) to print off larger items like terrain and extra tank parts.
(mostly the 3d print will be the base of the item and much more traditional modeling done to complete it)

I don't see my usage of a 3D printer as being any different to using greenstuff or plastic card.

Panic...

From the same article Red linked to above:

Asked whether the company might ever consider selling its own digital 3D designs, he said: "That would be nearly impossible, unless the customer had plastic, metal and resin casting equipment."

Does this GW rep not know what a 3d printer is?

These scanners are awesome http://www.nextengine.com/

This shows it being used on spawn figures, has much potential for minis. http://www.nextengine.com/gallery/spawn

Guys, this is coming
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/printrbot/printrbot-your-first-3d-printer?ref=card

The local hackerspace has a decent machine but a few of use have talking about a serious upgrade. Now I think it is needed.

This is the future of model making for the masses right here.

They still have alot of problems at the moment.. but we have to wait for what mankind can do with this over the next 5-10 years.

Those of you old enough to remember the first CD players can appreciate how quick the tech moves. My dad had one, a very early Phillips model the size of a breeze block, with a Dire Straits CD (the only album that was available in CD format then). The player was pretty bad - I distinctly remember it wouldn't play my Chili Peppers CD for some reason. The player also cost a small fortune from what I remember.

However, the point is within a few short years, the tech was ubiquitous, the price had fallen, it was reliable and the quality was good. Once people start adopting this 3D tech, the rise in quality and fall in price will be exponential.

@ Paulson Games - Yes, that scanner and what it can do is awesome!

That kickstarter printer looks really good, and filbert, you're absolutely right. As the technology becomes more common, you'll be able to buy these type of 3D printers in any electrical store at the same sort of price that a regular printer costs now.

So it looks like 3d models are going to be added to the Pirate's horde, along with the usual digital treasure Which to me begs the question, is technology going to change the very nature of the entertainment industry. Tabletop gaming, along with music, films and computer gaming all come under that heading.

For hundreds of years if we wanted to hear music or see a performance we had to go to a theatre or such venue. Even then alot of performers would perform on street corners and rely on donations from paasers by.

The late 19th Century and all of the 20th Century changed that. People could take the music home with them. Later on the same thing happened to film & TV. Billions were made during this time, then technology caught up and threw a spanner in the works.

People say it's theft and it might be, but does it also mean that we have change our view / expectations on this business model? Does technology mena that you will no longer be able to expect to make a living from an entertainment product in the same way as before?

Wolfstan wrote:

People say it's theft and it might be, but does it also mean that we have change our view / expectations on this business model? Does technology mena that you will no longer be able to expect to make a living from an entertainment product in the same way as before?

Copyright infringement is still copyright infringement.

There is a business model, the issue is people don't want a new business model, they want free models and only to pay for materials and the device. They will steal the software, Steal people's artwork, steal whatever they can. The same people who refused to buy CDs and burn copies and steal songs off the internet, steal movies and recast physical minis now.

The issue with making 'prints' is copyright owners will want to and practically need to protect their renders much the way wedding photographers do. The way a wedding photographer makes money is by selling you prints of photos which *THEY* own the copyrights for. You never own the photos of your own wedding. Now you can negotiate that you get the full rights to the photos so you may print as many as you wish, but that is a way different cost than buying prints from the photographer.

The same will need to be done with 3d models. Selling someone a render to do unlimited printing is not a business model especially with the piracy. People will probably sell the prints, people may sell a render on commission for a high price, but unless they have a model that can limit the number of legal prints of a render, there is no incentive for artists to release their prints.

You're missing my point. I'm not talking about copyright I'm talking about making money from entertainment. I will carry on using music and acting as the basic example. A couple of hundred years ago if I was a singer, even if good, there was no way I was a superstar. Technology in the early 20th Century allowed a singer to actually make a living from their voice and as we know this then moved on to the superstar status we have now. Technology allowed this to happen, it created an artificial career in a sense. If you took away pop superstars and it went back to going to your local pub to hear them, society wouldn't stop, but what they earn't would drop.

I'm not saying piracy is good or bad, what I'm saying is that it's kinda of turning the clock back on the industry because they aren't making the big bucks any more. Technology won't allow me to become a builder, or a plumber, but it will allow me to print off a 3d model or create a website without having to be a coder. It means that a whole chunk of business sectors are going to have to change their business model. Pandora's box is well and truely open and it's going to get worse.

I think a lot of people are missing the point. It doesn't have to be about copyright infringement. A lot of people make their own custom models now. If the people that do that can share their models for others to make for marginally more work don't you think at least a few of them will? It doesn't matter to me who designs the models I'm playing with. If it starts to be some guy on the internet who's doing it for the love of the game instead of GW selling models more power to him. The business model of selling models may not hold up but that doesn't mean there is any copyright infringement there.

@Panic:
These were printed on my prusa so that's exactly the quality you can reasonably get. Several people I'm talking with in the thingiverse messenger are doing a bit better for more time investment per model. I'm an engineer not an artist though so my model design isn't the best. I'm also still operating on the principle “if my models cost about $.15 each and take 15 minutes to make, I can smash them when they die just for effect.”
You should consider uploading any gaming models you design to thingiverse. There is a shortage of people working on gaming minis after the leman russ got taken down.

Wow, that technology is amazing.

This doesn't have to be about copyright infringement at all.

I think what people are forgetting is that a lego mould, some silicone rubber and 2-part resin can already allow you to illegally recast and sell models for far cheaper (and more quickly with much higher quality) than 3d printing.

I'm mainly interested in this tech to see all the unique new designs it results in.

I'm amazed no-one is selling 3d-printed wargames terrain already.

The tech is pretty cool, it's like the replicators from star trek slowly becoming reality.

scarletsquig wrote:
I'm amazed no-one is selling 3d-printed wargames terrain already.

The tech is pretty cool, it's like the replicators from star trek slowly becoming reality.

Sounds like an opening in the market to me, I think you're right about the replicator thingy, beam me up Scotty!

I can't see a real market for 3d printed terrain... it seems like it'd be better to print one master, sand it down, and then do casts of it.

But I want 3d printers to become more and more a part of the hobby, I just don't see them being used to mass-produce terrain.

RiTides.. I still want to know if that whistle made sounds!

Moulded stuff is going to be cheaper than this 3d printed stuff for a long time yet. I doubt it's viable for someone to sell wargames miniatures printed on these things for a competitive price.

monkeyh wrote:Doesn't GW already design some stuff on CAD? I may be wrong on this but I think they may do this to a degree to make the moulds for some of the plastic parts?

On pretty much all the vehicles they do. Also most of the models are sculpted in a larger scale then digitally scanned and small improvements are made, surfaces smoothed etc.

porkuslime wrote:RiTides.. I still want to know if that whistle made sounds!

I bet it does, the whole point of the default objects they provide is how they can print an object that has things within things that a normal process would be unable to do. A whistle has the little ball inside which usually results in the need for the whistle to be 2 parts and put together with the ball inside. The printer can print the ball inside which then results in a one-piece whistle.

They also have CADs for chains and boxes within boxes which basically have detatched pieces but are printed already intertwined.