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http://www.shapeways.com/model/446658/stealth_ladies_revolvers.html?gid=sg28704

This is definitely the highest quality 28mm 3d Print I've seen so far, and at $17.21 it's priced in line with most GW products. I think that methods like the one that shapeways uses are cost effective, but ponderous, as you must wait weeks to receive proofs before ordering in large quantities.

junk wrote:http://www.shapeways.com/model/446658/stealth_ladies_revolvers.html?gid=sg28704

This is definitely the highest quality 28mm 3d Print I've seen so far, and at $17.21 it's priced in line with most GW products. I think that methods like the one that shapeways uses are cost effective, but ponderous, as you must wait weeks to receive proofs before ordering in large quantities.

I don't see any pictures of the actual prints...

I ordered a set, so when I receive them (4-6 weeks) if this thread is still active, I'll post some HQ macro photos.

It is absolutely the future.

"I really wanna try Ironclad Dreads this game, I'm gonna go print some out and see if they work well"

Who wouldn't do this?




Look at the history of printers, these things will come free with your PC in a few years.

Cyporiean wrote:

junk wrote:http://www.shapeways.com/model/446658/stealth_ladies_revolvers.html?gid=sg28704

This is definitely the highest quality 28mm 3d Print I've seen so far, and at $17.21 it's priced in line with most GW products. I think that methods like the one that shapeways uses are cost effective, but ponderous, as you must wait weeks to receive proofs before ordering in large quantities.

I don't see any pictures of the actual prints...

A scouring of the internet found exactly two pictures of his finished work, both here and neither very good. But they look better than I thought they would...

http://easternfringe.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8543&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60

Hard to tell with those awful paint jobs, but yeah, quality isn't GW.

Another 3d printing article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16907104

In fairness it's real high end stuff, but what starts at the top usually works it's way down.

If your printing out a full 3D model without authorization...then it should honestly be classed as theft and not just piracy, considering there are physical items involved.

I can't see how this can get much personal use legally.

It will interesting how the industry handles this. Obviously if someone got hold of a GW CAD model and was using that, then that's a clear enough legal issue. know a big chunk of digital reproduction is covered by copyright, but could you get away with scanning a model and converting it into a template? What about someone who recreates a 40k model and then just gives the 3d model away? Maybe even selling it could be legal.

Someone soon will need to sit down and look at this otherwise it will be Napster all over again.

and then just gives the 3d model away?

Doesn't that deny the company a sale, as they didnt give it away?

Could be. My point is that the industry shouldn't assume that the current laws cover this new tech. If they do I would imagine it will bite them.

Wolfstan wrote: know a big chunk of digital reproduction is covered by copyright, but could you get away with scanning a model and converting it into a template? What about someone who recreates a 40k model and then just gives the 3d model away? Maybe even selling it could be legal.

Scanning, tracing or manually recreating something via visually inpsecting an original is all derivative works. Fan art is technically illegal but companies look the other way. If 3D fan art became the source of physical prints, then GW could excersize their copyrights by cracking down on fan art which basically renders any of GWs models.

If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is illegal and would get GWs attention.

Wolfstan wrote:It will interesting how the industry handles this. Obviously if someone got hold of a GW CAD model and was using that, then that's a clear enough legal issue. know a big chunk of digital reproduction is covered by copyright, but could you get away with scanning a model and converting it into a template? What about someone who recreates a 40k model and then just gives the 3d model away? Maybe even selling it could be legal.

Someone soon will need to sit down and look at this otherwise it will be Napster all over again.

As it applies here - The X-box Kinect is a Visual Scanner, with free software. There already exist Mods for it that use 2 Kinects placed at a 90 degree offset, attached to a Windows PC, to act as a functional 3D scanner. Just place your mini on the turn table, shoot 30 seconds of video, and BAM! instant perfect 3D model for printing.

And exactly as legal as tucking said mini in your pocket as you walk out of a FLGS.

Sunoccard wrote:I had read about this somewhere else, and I had a similar thought. There are several problems with it at the moment, First is that they cannot produce the level of detail that most gamers would find acceptable, Second is the legal grey area that exists around such a thing ( the chapter house suit could have a major impact on this).

In a few years this technology may be used to a great extent, legal issues aside, it really would depend on the cost of implementation and access (paid or unpaid) to the blueprints.

This would only be an issue if you planned on selling the replicas.

GW couldn't stop 5,000 people making their own space marines if they tried.

yeah,
I've already sunk £500 into my 3d printer and it's not yet complete.
The plastic to print objects is sold at about £50 for 2KG so it's not exactly cheap.
The resolution of prints isn't good enough yet to compare with GW models... and have allot of clean up required to get things nice.
Also each print takes up to 8 hours to print! on top of this there are failed prints... allot of talk on the reprap forums discussing machine mods deals with how many failed prints people get.

If all people want is space marines the easiest/cheapest way to get them with the highest quality is to buy an original.

Sure the tech will advance, but we are not there yet.

Most people who look at this 3D printing tech, don't see piracy, they see a cool way to make unique items.
GW sells Green Stuff... They even give out Golden Daemons to people who have scratch built entire models based on their IP

What's the difference between Sculpting unique Space Marine parts from Green Stuff and downloading/scanning a Space Marine making changes to make it unique and printing it?

Panic...

What's the difference between Sculpting unique Space Marine parts from Green Stuff and downloading/scanning a Space Marine making changes to make it unique and printing it?

Except when you can print an entire bitz box out and sell it to someone for money.

Panic wrote:What's the difference between Sculpting unique Space Marine parts from Green Stuff and downloading/scanning a Space Marine making changes to make it unique and printing it?

Roughly 2 Dollars to GW for the base figure.

Sculpting a head and some Shoulderpads = Printing a head and some Shoulderpads.
Sculpting an Entire Marine = scratch Modeling and printing an entire Marine.
Scanning a Marine and Printing it = slipping a Marine in your pocket and walking out of the FLGS with it.

Will this be the future? Well, I remember a scientific seminar I once attended where it was helpfully pointed out that if you ask the question "Will X happen?" The answer is pretty much always "yes", if you make the time frame long enough.

I think something that can get lost in these discussions is the degree of dedication: I think that this kind of technology will not any time soon be a substantial financial threat to entities like Games Workshop or Privateer Press, simply because for the time being, most people simply won't want to put in the effort. In this way I think it's similar to the example earlier in the thread about how printing paper hasn't gotten rid of books, and dissimilar to pirating movies and music.

With movies and music, the entirety of these entities have been moving to a purely digital medium for a while: I don't think that people would pirate what they do if it wasn't for the existence of physical devices like iPods that let them then use that music. I could be wrong, but I never really saw a threat to publishing in the days of the CD player.

Also, something to think about: if we suppose a good 3d printing system costs $1000, and could let you produce miniatures on the cheep, you're looking at printing out a lot of stuff. But people don't get introduced to the game that way: they start out with the 2 player box or a Christmas gift or see some friends stuff or pass the store, whatever. Pretty much everyone on these boards is experienced with these systems and looks at investments in armies, new games, whatever, and can (they don't neccassarily do so) weigh the costs involved.

But people starting out the game don't, and even if they knew they could do this, you're not going to buy a $1000 machine just so you don't have to buy an $80-100 starter kit.

I think the most exciting options will be for true custom items created by the true small scale hobbyist/artists. I mean,I've been working for a while on a game system of my own, and I'm gradually realizing I could ultimately produce the whole system without every having to touch a mold myself, all through the computer. All crazy... but ultimately, it still requires writing quality rules that people want to play, and miniatures people want to play with. You can cut out the middle man, but you can't cut out the need for talent in the end.

Wolfstan wrote:Could be. My point is that the industry shouldn't assume that the current laws cover this new tech. If they do I would imagine it will bite them.

Uh, I'm not sure where you are getting this idea, but scanning a model and then printing a copy is very definitely a violation of US Copyright law. Scanning a model, manipulating the pose and then printing it out is also a violation. Such behaviors are flatly proscribed by the plain language of 17 USC 1 SS 106 and 113.

Uh, I'm not sure where you are getting this idea, but scanning a model and then printing a copy is very definitely a violation of US Copyright law. Scanning a model, manipulating the pose and then printing it out is also a violation. Such behaviors are flatly proscribed by the plain language of 17 USC 1 SS 106 and 113.

Ok fair enough that's the US angle taken care of. No idea how tight every one elses copyright laws are so can't comment on them. Still say it wil be interesting times and if the cost of GW models keep going up, then I can see some suppliers popping up in China. How long before you see a line of printers churning out FW copies?

Something else to think on is how you would police it. Usually trading standards or plod turn up and can see shelves of product. In the case of a 3d printing all the templates could be stored on a server on the web, so all they see is a 3d printer. If the person is switched on enough they can keep the site details in their head, so even less obvious evidence.

Just printed this for Jin . Not a figure by a Really long shot, but decent enough for a gaming accessory, or will be after some cleanup!

First shot still has the raft on the back, second I've cut it off (need to figure out a way to make removing it easier).






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porkuslime wrote:RiTides.. I still want to know if that whistle made sounds!

Sorry, I totally missed this . It does whistle!

yeah,
that print is awesome Ritides, very nice.

I'm so excited... going to spend all day today working on mine!

Panic...

RiTides wrote:Just printed this for Jin . Not a figure by a Really long shot, but decent enough for a gaming accessory, or will be after some cleanup!

First shot still has the raft on the back, second I've cut it off (need to figure out a way to make removing it easier).

Wow! 2 questions: 1) is that an original sculpt, or is that from a scan of something? 2) I know you and Panic are setting up your own rigs, did you put up any information on those things, because that kind of quality from a home rig is amazing to me, just gobsmaking.

Buzzsaw wrote:

RiTides wrote:Just printed this for Jin . Not a figure by a Really long shot, but decent enough for a gaming accessory, or will be after some cleanup!

First shot still has the raft on the back, second I've cut it off (need to figure out a way to make removing it easier).

Wow! 2 questions: 1) is that an original sculpt, or is that from a scan of something? 2) I know you and Panic are setting up your own rigs, did you put up any information on those things, because that kind of quality from a home rig is amazing to me, just gobsmaking.

I see nothing like it on the net, though my search param's may be off, closest is a half circle plastic wheel that's just printed.

Now the question is: If they are legal for sale, what's the price point to make them viable?

Here is an interesting article about 3-D Printing:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2012/02/06/_3_d_printing_creates_bone_replacement_for_elderly_woman_s_lower_jaw_.html

I don't know if this has been addressed to earlier in the thread, but I think such a technology would have a significant disadvantage and that would be: piracy. One cannot copy the sprue of the plastic models that easily. However, if GW would start simply to sell the blueprints for download for use with a 3d printer, then someone would not be far behind trying to break codes and copy the blueprint, and then sell it around or distribute it freely on the internet.
Just my thoughts on this.

angelshade00 wrote:I don't know if this has been addressed to earlier in the thread, but I think such a technology would have a significant disadvantage and that would be: piracy. One cannot copy the sprue of the plastic models that easily. However, if GW would start simply to sell the blueprints for download for use with a 3d printer, then someone would not be far behind trying to break codes and copy the blueprint, and then sell it around or distribute it freely on the internet.
Just my thoughts on this.

Covered, and as I pointed out, I can scan a Sprue into CAD using 2 Kinects, then send it to the printer right now. But that's the same as pocketing the sprue and walking out of the FLGS with it.
EDIT: Here's a video of a functional one posted back in August. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7LthXRoESw
There's references to a Shapeways project using the tech back in February of last year.

Bounty wrote:

Buzzsaw wrote:

RiTides wrote:Just printed this for Jin . Not a figure by a Really long shot, but decent enough for a gaming accessory, or will be after some cleanup!

First shot still has the raft on the back, second I've cut it off (need to figure out a way to make removing it easier).

Wow! 2 questions: 1) is that an original sculpt, or is that from a scan of something? 2) I know you and Panic are setting up your own rigs, did you put up any information on those things, because that kind of quality from a home rig is amazing to me, just gobsmaking.

I see nothing like it on the net, though my search param's may be off, closest is a half circle plastic wheel that's just printed.

Now the question is: If they are legal for sale, what's the price point to make them viable?

Unless I unwittingly did so, that should be a completely original 3D model made by yours truly.

As far as legality of sale of the thing: I don't know anybody that makes a similar product (and GW certainly doesn't). I don't see why it'd be illegal.

Jin wrote:

Bounty wrote:I see nothing like it on the net, though my search param's may be off, closest is a half circle plastic wheel that's just printed.
Now the question is: If they are legal for sale, what's the price point to make them viable?

Unless I unwittingly did so, that should be a completely original 3D model made by yours truly.
As far as legality of sale of the thing: I don't know anybody that makes a similar product (and GW certainly doesn't). I don't see why it'd be illegal.

I've seen 'similar' in as much as they're spin up turn counters featuring Roman Numerals, but so long as it's not a copy of someone's IP, or an existing sculpt, it's legally yours, and you can sell them. I'd figure cost to print, add 25%, then round to the nearest dollar and offer them for sale! Worst case senerio nobody buys them.

Here's some images of 'similar' items:
Note that the two using minis, and the one in the Guard Eagle, are all in violation of GW IP, and can't be sold.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/this-could-be-big-abc-news/machines-creating-machines-181919022.html

This is what you might be looking for. It's affordable and it has open support for 3D graphics you want to create through the company. You couldn't (or better yet shouldn't) 3D render any copyrighted minis, but you could make open source models that are close for community use.

One production line right there in that report.

Piracy is going to happen, repeating the same posts that it's wrong won't change that fact. How the industry deals with it will be the key thing. If GW is having a rough time with CHS at the moment, just think how harder it will get in the future. At what point will a skull and cog design cross over in to a copyright breach? How many places will start off coming up with GW themed accessories? GW's legal team will be like a cartoon character trying to stop the leaks in a dam, in the end they will run out of resources to chase everyone.

How about a 40k "style" dice tower? Or dice box?