Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

AL-PiXeL01 wrote:

Von Chogg wrote:Hmm, Vanguard veterans with power axes? Free I10 attack on the charge? Ooo....

Or banshees with axes... Who cares about I1? I'm I10 coz of masks xD

But, I think this could be cool. I think you should have to state what type the power weapon is in the list.

Von Chogg

If axes follow the same rules as fists then you wouldn't be ini 10 as wargear cannot increase your ini (according to the 5th rulebook at least) so you have a swing at ini1 with s4 instead of s6 ... Axes will probably be two handed as well do no bonus for having a pistol.

So, except for the price, why not just use a fist!

power axes are single handed, can be used with a pistol, +1str and init 1

DPBellathrom wrote:so my whips count as swords......yay for logic :3 but really I cant see why these rules were necessary in the first place. and also, an axe makes you I1 :? I thought the rule for this sort of thing was and axe swingsslower than a sword and a maul swings slower than an axe. -1I would have been better.....and AP4 for a maul is just wrong

You're thinking of Skyrim. lol

Why is it wrong? Blunt weapons do not penetrate armor, they crush things on the other side of the armor. Hence, lower AP and higher strength. Axes, on the other hand, cut through armor, but are slower to swing. Makes sense to me.

DPBellathrom wrote:

pretre wrote:

DPBellathrom wrote:this his to be the most stupid rule for 6th ed I've seen so far -.-

my slaanesh termies have power whips.......what the hell am I supposed to do now :/

all my deathguard champs have scyths....again......what do I count these as?

serioulsy......who ever thought this was a good idea for a rule?

Again, weapons that don't fall into Axe/Maul/Sword fall under Sword. So your whips and scythes? Swords. Unless you want to 'Counts As' them.

Deep breaths.

so my whips count as swords......yay for logic :3 but really I cant see why these rules were necessary in the first place. and also, an axe makes you I1 :? I thought the rule for this sort of thing was and axe swingsslower than a sword and a maul swings slower than an axe. -1I would have been better.....and AP4 for a maul is just wrong

It is a bit messed up, honestly if they were going to do this they should've gone the full way and detailed every type of weapon (normal or otherwise) and just done a few pages on it. But this will likely have about half a page dedicated to it, and no more.

Mace seems fine to me, as it doesn't sheer through armour; rather it relies on repetitive, heavy blows to take down its target. Essentially the bridge between bog standard CCW's and thunder hammers.

Axe I1 is meh.. but I don't think it'll be as detrimental as many of us think.

pretre wrote:

DPBellathrom wrote:so my whips count as swords......yay for logic :3 but really I cant see why these rules were necessary in the first place. and also, an axe makes you I1 :? I thought the rule for this sort of thing was and axe swingsslower than a sword and a maul swings slower than an axe. -1I would have been better.....and AP4 for a maul is just wrong

You're thinking of Skyrim. lol

Why is it wrong? Blunt weapons do not penetrate armor, they crush things on the other side of the armor. Hence, lower AP and higher strength. Axes, on the other hand, cut through armor, but are slower to swing. Makes sense to me.

Ninja'd me..

Still, axes should have definitely had AP2 but only -1 initiative, -2 at a painful stretch. But right down to I1 just makes it redundant next to the powerfist for me. I'll gladly pay the 10 points for Sx2 over just +2.

I thought the power axe was MINUS 1 Initiative, Not reduced to initiative 1. For example, If you gave it to an IG sargeant, he would go from I3, to I 2.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:It is a bit messed up, honestly if they were going to do this they should've gone the full way and detailed every type of weapon (normal or otherwise) and just done a few pages on it. But this will likely have about half a page dedicated to it, and no more.

Mace seems fine to me, as it doesn't sheer through armour; rather it relies on repetitive, heavy blows to take down its target. Essentially the bridge between bog standard CCW's and thunder hammers.

Axe I1 is meh.. but I don't think it'll be as detrimental as many of us think.

A few pages of types of power weapons? Geeze. Let's keep it somewhat simple.

Still, axes should have definitely had AP2 but only -1 initiative, -2 at a painful stretch. But right down to I1 just makes it redundant next to the powerfist for me. I'll gladly pay the 10 points for S8 over just +2.

AP2 is really good though. It has the advantage of +1 attack over a power fist as well.

MrMoustaffa wrote:I thought the power axe was MINUS 1 Initiative, Not reduced to initiative 1. For example, If you gave it to an IG sargeant, he would go from I3, to I 2.

Sadly not, seems axe wielders suddenly attack with the speed of a building.

pretre wrote:

DPBellathrom wrote:so my whips count as swords......yay for logic :3 but really I cant see why these rules were necessary in the first place. and also, an axe makes you I1 :? I thought the rule for this sort of thing was and axe swingsslower than a sword and a maul swings slower than an axe. -1I would have been better.....and AP4 for a maul is just wrong

You're thinking of Skyrim. lol

Why is it wrong? Blunt weapons do not penetrate armor, they crush things on the other side of the armor. Hence, lower AP and higher strength. Axes, on the other hand, cut through armor, but are slower to swing. Makes sense to me.

yeah I was but its true.....sort of :3

but I1 rather than -1I really makes no sense to me for the axe. also for blunt weapons I was thinking it would just smash through the armour and cause plenty of damage on what was inside too :/ that being said I suppose tau armour is easyer to smash through than power armour.

some kind of WFB str VS save modifyer would have been more appropriate IMO

MrMoustaffa wrote:I thought the power axe was MINUS 1 Initiative, Not reduced to initiative 1. For example, If you gave it to an IG sargeant, he would go from I3, to I 2.

It might be. Hard to say without the book.

pretre wrote:

Darkvoidof40k wrote:It is a bit messed up, honestly if they were going to do this they should've gone the full way and detailed every type of weapon (normal or otherwise) and just done a few pages on it. But this will likely have about half a page dedicated to it, and no more.

Mace seems fine to me, as it doesn't sheer through armour; rather it relies on repetitive, heavy blows to take down its target. Essentially the bridge between bog standard CCW's and thunder hammers.

Axe I1 is meh.. but I don't think it'll be as detrimental as many of us think.

A few pages of types of power weapons? Geeze. Let's keep it somewhat simple.

I meant normal CCW's as well, as they'd invariably have to have some sort of different effect with axe/sword/mace system due to lack of AP. Or perhaps axes would have AP5, swords AP6 and mace's just +2S. It could work.

Still, axes should have definitely had AP2 but only -1 initiative, -2 at a painful stretch. But right down to I1 just makes it redundant next to the powerfist for me. I'll gladly pay the 10 points for S8 over just +2.

AP2 is really good though. It has the advantage of +1 attack over a power fist as well.

You're right, but a powerfist is more multi-purpose as it can go tank hunting and frankly that +1S means nothing on most units if you get stuck against a MC or dreadnought.

pretre wrote:

Darkvoidof40k wrote:It is a bit messed up, honestly if they were going to do this they should've gone the full way and detailed every type of weapon (normal or otherwise) and just done a few pages on it. But this will likely have about half a page dedicated to it, and no more.

Mace seems fine to me, as it doesn't sheer through armour; rather it relies on repetitive, heavy blows to take down its target. Essentially the bridge between bog standard CCW's and thunder hammers.

Axe I1 is meh.. but I don't think it'll be as detrimental as many of us think.

A few pages of types of power weapons? Geeze. Let's keep it somewhat simple.

Still, axes should have definitely had AP2 but only -1 initiative, -2 at a painful stretch. But right down to I1 just makes it redundant next to the powerfist for me. I'll gladly pay the 10 points for S8 over just +2.

AP2 is really good though. It has the advantage of +1 attack over a power fist as well.

I dunno, WFB has 2 pages of weapons and it works fine for me :3 less confusion and more interesting rules

To the OP with book... does the new shiny say anything about power weapons with rules already stated in the codex?

Example GK weapons, force weapons in general, etc?

It would seem 'odd' to me if say a sergent could previously buy a power weapon... but now can buy a power weapon / axe / maul all for the same cost, and the modeling of the weapon is the only distinguishing element. If that is the case, I can see a lot of "counts as" discussions in our local group.

Luckily, I don't play any of the big tourny's anymore... so I won't be changing swords for axes, or mauls or tripling up models to have the different options anytime soon. I'm thankful to have a group of gamers for many years that are all the same mindset in the area.

Cheers,

pretre wrote:

MrMoustaffa wrote:I thought the power axe was MINUS 1 Initiative, Not reduced to initiative 1. For example, If you gave it to an IG sargeant, he would go from I3, to I 2.

It might be. Hard to say without the book.

I'm pretty sure it was confirmed I1, but if it's just -1I then that'd be brilliant.

Non-standard power weapons are generally considered Power Swords unless stated otherwise.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

pretre wrote:

MrMoustaffa wrote:I thought the power axe was MINUS 1 Initiative, Not reduced to initiative 1. For example, If you gave it to an IG sargeant, he would go from I3, to I 2.

It might be. Hard to say without the book.

I'm pretty sure it was confirmed I1, but if it's just -1I then that'd be brilliant.

if it is I'll be happy, but like you said I1 and +2str < I1 x2 str :/

Darkvoidof40k wrote:The power maul hasn't had much discussion. Do people feel it's a "meh" option because of the abundance of Meq, making it a niche weapon?

I sure know I'll be finding that one power maul I have lying around and assembling myself a brand new SM captain and a couple squads to kick-start my Storm Lords at some point.

Also, I think the maul makes the vanilla SM Relic Blade obsolete. Sure, the Relic blade has AP3.. but it's two-handed and costs 15 extra points over the maul, when effectively they do the same thing.. +2 strength PW.

again my point is that you can swap out mauls for axes or swords without tailoring your list. Your list says a power weapon and then you bring out a model and you "look at the model" to determine what kind of power weapon they have. So as you see your opponent pull out his guard you can get as many power mauls as you want for wounding on 2s.

I'm sure they will be correcting a lot of things via FAQ/erratas and whatnot. For example a Nemesis force sword would be ap3 striking at regular initiative and give +1 to invul save in cc. Now lets look at the halberd.. wait no boost to invul save and essentially -1 initiative... well that seems a bit silly. I'm hoping this gets fixed in a fairly timely manner. I didn't model my TDA units differently for wound shinanigans but I did use mostly halberds for the I6. If it stands that they must stay at I3 There will be a whole lot of unhappy GK players out there.

Exergy wrote:again my point is that you can swap out mauls for axes or swords without tailoring your list. Your list says a power weapon and then you bring out a model and you "look at the model" to determine what kind of power weapon they have. So as you see your opponent pull out his guard you can get as many power mauls as you want for wounding on 2s.

Umm. No. You can't do that. You would need to specify in your list all the wargear you are taking. Not to mention that if your model has a maul, it is a maul.

i heard anything can be wounded by anything now, does that mean grots could beat a bio-titan to death!!??

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

pretre wrote:

MrMoustaffa wrote:I thought the power axe was MINUS 1 Initiative, Not reduced to initiative 1. For example, If you gave it to an IG sargeant, he would go from I3, to I 2.

It might be. Hard to say without the book.

I'm pretty sure it was confirmed I1, but if it's just -1I then that'd be brilliant.

its init 1. It has the same "unwieldy rule" as a powerfist but lacks its "specialist weapon rule"
unwieldy makes you init 1
specialist means you only get +1 attack from having 2.

Exergy wrote:

Darkvoidof40k wrote:The power maul hasn't had much discussion. Do people feel it's a "meh" option because of the abundance of Meq, making it a niche weapon?

I sure know I'll be finding that one power maul I have lying around and assembling myself a brand new SM captain and a couple squads to kick-start my Storm Lords at some point.

Also, I think the maul makes the vanilla SM Relic Blade obsolete. Sure, the Relic blade has AP3.. but it's two-handed and costs 15 extra points over the maul, when effectively they do the same thing.. +2 strength PW.

again my point is that you can swap out mauls for axes or swords without tailoring your list. Your list says a power weapon and then you bring out a model and you "look at the model" to determine what kind of power weapon they have. So as you see your opponent pull out his guard you can get as many power mauls as you want for wounding on 2s.

Bad sportsmanship, right there.

What Petre said, too.

lukyboi wrote:i heard anything can be wounded by anything now, does that mean grots could beat a bio-titan to death!!??

That's not correct. The wound chart is the same.

pretre wrote:

Exergy wrote:again my point is that you can swap out mauls for axes or swords without tailoring your list. Your list says a power weapon and then you bring out a model and you "look at the model" to determine what kind of power weapon they have. So as you see your opponent pull out his guard you can get as many power mauls as you want for wounding on 2s.

Umm. No. You can't do that. You would need to specify in your list all the wargear you are taking. Not to mention that if your model has a maul, it is a maul.

in your list it's a power weapon.

lukyboi wrote:i heard anything can be wounded by anything now, does that mean grots could beat a bio-titan to death!!??

I don't think you're in the right thread for that question...

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

Exergy wrote:

Darkvoidof40k wrote:The power maul hasn't had much discussion. Do people feel it's a "meh" option because of the abundance of Meq, making it a niche weapon?

I sure know I'll be finding that one power maul I have lying around and assembling myself a brand new SM captain and a couple squads to kick-start my Storm Lords at some point.

Also, I think the maul makes the vanilla SM Relic Blade obsolete. Sure, the Relic blade has AP3.. but it's two-handed and costs 15 extra points over the maul, when effectively they do the same thing.. +2 strength PW.

again my point is that you can swap out mauls for axes or swords without tailoring your list. Your list says a power weapon and then you bring out a model and you "look at the model" to determine what kind of power weapon they have. So as you see your opponent pull out his guard you can get as many power mauls as you want for wounding on 2s.

Bad sportsmanship, right there.

What Petre said, too.

100% agree on the bad sportsmanship, but im just bringing this up. Hope it gets FAQed soon.

lukyboi wrote:i heard anything can be wounded by anything now, does that mean grots could beat a bio-titan to death!!??

Technically yes, a to-wound roll of 6 wounds automatically.. I believe that was in previous editions as well. Not the worst but not the most sensible rule.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

lukyboi wrote:i heard anything can be wounded by anything now, does that mean grots could beat a bio-titan to death!!??

Technically yes, a to-wound roll of 6 wounds automatically.. I believe that was in previous editions as well. Not the worst but not the most sensible rule.

nope changed in WHFB 8th. Rending always wounded on a 6 but it use to be that a wraithlord could walk through anything with str4 or less.

Exergy wrote:in your list it's a power weapon.

Not in 6th edition, it isn't. Pretty sure it says if it isn't specified, it is a sword. Pretty sure if you want to take a maul or axe, you need to specifiy in your list. Again, we have to wait for the book, but good luck getting away with that.

Also, are you going to magnetize your guys so you can swap the weapons when you see what your opponent is playing?

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

lukyboi wrote:i heard anything can be wounded by anything now, does that mean grots could beat a bio-titan to death!!??

Technically yes, a to-wound roll of 6 wounds automatically.. I believe that was in previous editions as well. Not the worst but not the most sensible rule.

Umm. Just going to leave this here:

(removed the pic, but a couple of you saw it so know that there is still a to-wound chart and it doesn't allow you to do that)

pretre wrote:

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

lukyboi wrote:i heard anything can be wounded by anything now, does that mean grots could beat a bio-titan to death!!??

Technically yes, a to-wound roll of 6 wounds automatically.. I believe that was in previous editions as well. Not the worst but not the most sensible rule.

Umm. Just going to leave this here:

thank god for that, the idea of a grot being able to kill my wraith lord would have been the last straw :3

Exergy wrote:

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

lukyboi wrote:i heard anything can be wounded by anything now, does that mean grots could beat a bio-titan to death!!??

Technically yes, a to-wound roll of 6 wounds automatically.. I believe that was in previous editions as well. Not the worst but not the most sensible rule.

nope changed in WHFB 8th. Rending always wounded on a 6 but it use to be that a wraithlord could walk through anything with str4 or less.

Not sure what WHFB has to do with this.

pretre wrote:

Exergy wrote:in your list it's a power weapon.

Not in 6th edition, it isn't. Pretty sure it says if it isn't specified, it is a sword. Pretty sure if you want to take a maul or axe, you need to specifiy in your list. Again, we have to wait for the book, but good luck getting away with that.

Also, are you going to magnetize your guys so you can swap the weapons when you see what your opponent is playing?

Likely not, as I have never magnetized before. Though if I had the know-how I'd consider it depending on the unit.

pretre wrote:

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

lukyboi wrote:i heard anything can be wounded by anything now, does that mean grots could beat a bio-titan to death!!??

Technically yes, a to-wound roll of 6 wounds automatically.. I believe that was in previous editions as well. Not the worst but not the most sensible rule.

Umm. Just going to leave this here:

Guess I was wrong. Was going off a rumour I read the other day.