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KrimsunBaron wrote:The collectors edition was sold before the normal one? Or are you questioning how he did?
Sort of shows you didn't read the first post where he says he has rulebook in hand

He's asking how he got the rulebook so early.

A friend explained/confirmed rumours for me the other day because he went down to a GW and you can see the rulebook there. Might be how he's done it here, unless the pre-orders do get it early or something.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:A friend explained/confirmed rumours for me the other day because he went down to a GW and you can see the rulebook there. Might be how he's done it here, unless the pre-orders do get it early or something.

They mailed mine 2 days ago, so it's possible his got there early.

I got told that even if the book is in the building, I can't collect it until Saturday.

As for power weapons, what would the arm-spikes on a Warp Spider be?

Whichever you want, I expect

What benefits does the hand flamer give in the new edition? I have bunch I removed back in the day, would be cool to use them again

UMM d3 hits on snapfire or overwatch (not sure which) is pretty darn cool.

Von Chogg wrote:Hmm, Vanguard veterans with power axes? Free I10 attack on the charge? Ooo....

Or banshees with axes... Who cares about I1? I'm I10 coz of masks xD

But, I think this could be cool. I think you should have to state what type the power weapon is in the list.

Von Chogg

If axes follow the same rules as fists then you wouldn't be ini 10 as wargear cannot increase your ini (according to the 5th rulebook at least) so you have a swing at ini1 with s4 instead of s6 ... Axes will probably be two handed as well do no bonus for having a pistol.

So, except for the price, why not just use a fist!

Banshees can't get fists.


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p_gray99 wrote:Whichever you want, I expect

The leaks have said that undefined or unusual power weapons fall under Power Swords.

Ah, shame. Oh well. I'm sure you could green stuff some axes on there somehow

Grimtuff wrote:

p_gray99 wrote:I'm thinking of the old incubi models with the axes: Their power weapons give an additional +1 S as well as being power weapons. Would this mean +2 S as if you give them swords instead they still get +1 S.

I'm wondering the same thing, but with SW Frost Axes. Are these S6 now (S7 when mounted on a Thunderwolf)? As they also grant +1 S to the user.

OTOH it appears CSM Termies got the short end of the stick (again). Sucks to be you with all those Mauls.

False, only NORMAL power weapons can be axes, mauls or swords. Anything that is special, but also a power weapon is AP 3, with its own special rule

I don't think these changes will have an incredibly massive effect in-game. It might make us take a few different wargear choices, and play certain units more cautiously/use them different, but on the whole I expect this won't change much. Adds some nice flavour, though. Mind you that comes from an Meq point of view.

Grey Knight players will have a headache keeping track of all those weapons though.

wierd.,.. i liek the looks of axes better on my sang guard and when i put em together it was astetic... guess i'll be dissolving that superglue and magnetising now for options. cool that its new rules lame that its making them more expensive and in a sense nerfing them and upping the cost for the same functionality assuming it is true

This sudden differentiation of power-weaponry is incredibly annoying to me.

Despite my rank-descriptor, I usually play Marines. Back in the day when you simply had generic Power Weapon, Power Fist, Lightning Claw and THammer I made an aesthetic choice to replace all Power Weapons with things shaped like Axes - because the Axe is my DIY Chapter's symbol.

Now, by the rules, I'm stuck with with something that - while getting other buffs - strikes at I1. DO NOT WANT.

I am not changing any of my models because of this sudden shift in the rules - all my opponents are being told that an Axe = Sword. I might use the new Axe rules as a one-off item, but in these circumstances the model will have a differently colored blade to mark the difference.

I was planning on competing with this edition, but to avoid WYSIWYG problems I'll stick with friendly games.

I can understand how people who used to play Squats or Lost and the Damned feel.

/csb

Then that effectively means a SW with a frost axe is treated like it has a power sword with +1S... is this correct even though its an Axe type weapon?

EDIT: This seems a little haphazard to me... like they didn't actually think it through... they should have just made TWO different power weapons AP3 swords, AP2 +1S I1 Axes, feth mauls they are useless now. (being pretty much the only army that has them in any number is Chaos Space Marines... Terminators that effectively have a +2S ccw against MEQ armies) Plus to get into the logic of it a Maul is a heavier weapon than an Axe... if anything that should be the I1 weapon with +2S and AP2, Axes should just be +1S AP3 OR +2S AP2 two handed.... would that not be simpler?

Scott wrote:This sudden differentiation of power-weaponry is incredibly annoying to me.

Despite my rank-descriptor, I usually play Marines. Back in the day when you simply had generic Power Weapon, Power Fist, Lightning Claw and THammer I made an aesthetic choice to replace all Power Weapons with things shaped like Axes - because the Axe is my DIY Chapter's symbol.

I don't think you get to say back in the day if you're only referring to 5th edition. Different types of PW are an older part of 40k that is returning.

I am not changing any of my models because of this sudden shift in the rules - all my opponents are being told that an Axe = Sword. I might use the new Axe rules as a one-off item, but in these circumstances the model will have a differently colored blade to mark the difference.

Umm. Hope you're only playing friendly games. Again though, having to change models is part of edition and codex change. I have had to change my armies many times over the years, snipping off bits or buying new units to accomodate changes. It is part of the game.

I can understand how people who used to play Squats or Lost and the Damned feel.

Really, no you can't. You're complaining about having to change some wargear, which is a simple swap. They had to change their entire army. Complete lack of perspective.

Frankly I'm just wondering where the thought process for axes being I1 came from.

Take Khorne Berzerkers with their rather unfriendly chain axes. They're swinging away at I5 on the charge, and I'm inclined to believe that a chainaxe isn't going to be much heavier or more cumbersome than a power axe. Especially not in the hands of the superhumanly fast and strong astartes. They should've done something along the lines of axe gives AP2 but is two-handed, forgoing the reduced initiative and increased strength altogether - that's powerfist/thunder hammer territory.

Also, what does this mean for beatsticks like Draigo (and GK's in general)? Force weapons are power weapons first and foremost, so they'll generally be AP3 unless force weapon's get some other AP bonus. That's going to hurt Draigowing forces if they find themselves against units such as Terminators + Lysander (I have a feeling that unit will be an effective anti-deathstar unit in this edition) if they can't even touch 2+.

It'll be interesting what errata SW Frost Axes/Frost Swords get. According to the rulebook, they count as power weapons but grant the bearer +1 S without any Initiative penalty. They cost a few points more than regular power weapons too. Will those stats stay the same? Will they count as Power Axes that strike at normal Initiative? Power Swords with an AP buff? Will stats for a Frost Maul be released?

this his to be the most stupid rule for 6th ed I've seen so far -.-

my slaanesh termies have power whips.......what the hell am I supposed to do now :/

all my deathguard champs have scyths....again......what do I count these as?

serioulsy......who ever thought this was a good idea for a rule?

StoneRaizer wrote:It'll be interesting what errata SW Frost Axes/Frost Swords get. According to the rulebook, they count as power weapons but grant the bearer +1 S without any Initiative penalty. They cost a few points more than regular power weapons too. Will those stats stay the same? Will they count as Power Axes that strike at normal Initiative? Power Swords with an AP buff? Will stats for a Frost Maul be released?

They'll probably be ruled as "Unique by own codex rules" AP3.

Whatever they rule on special power weapons, all i know is I'm going to round up my dozens of Terminators and wreck havoc against higher initiative PW squads that previously would've cut them apart.

Terminator heavy armies.. they get to be awesome again. (Dark Angels notwithstanding)

DPBellathrom wrote:this his to be the most stupid rule for 6th ed I've seen so far -.-

my slaanesh termies have power whips.......what the hell am I supposed to do now :/

all my deathguard champs have scyths....again......what do I count these as?

serioulsy......who ever thought this was a good idea for a rule?

Again, weapons that don't fall into Axe/Maul/Sword fall under Sword. So your whips and scythes? Swords. Unless you want to 'Counts As' them.

Deep breaths.

The power maul hasn't had much discussion. Do people feel it's a "meh" option because of the abundance of Meq, making it a niche weapon?

I sure know I'll be finding that one power maul I have lying around and assembling myself a brand new SM captain and a couple squads to kick-start my Storm Lords at some point.

Also, I think the maul makes the vanilla SM Relic Blade obsolete. Sure, the Relic blade has AP3.. but it's two-handed and costs 15 extra points over the maul, when effectively they do the same thing.. +2 strength PW.

Relic blade will definitely still have a place. AP3 is a big deal. I think it will be good in squads where there are a mix of power weapons for some transport power.

For example, I may put one or two in my battle conclave so I can do something about transports and walkers.

DPBellathrom wrote:this his to be the most stupid rule for 6th ed I've seen so far -.-

my slaanesh termies have power whips.......what the hell am I supposed to do now :/

all my deathguard champs have scyths....again......what do I count these as?

serioulsy......who ever thought this was a good idea for a rule?

I believe these rules may come from Matt Ward, I'm not bashing the guy I just think it comes from him being as he is the biggest 2nd Ed fan on the development and design team. Back then standard space marines came under an 'Ultramarine codex' a lot like the current codex being 'Ultramarines and friends' which makes me think a lot of inspiration is taken from 2nd Ed...

pretre wrote:Relic blade will definitely still have a place. AP3 is a big deal. I think it will be good in squads where there are a mix of power weapons for some transport power.

For example, I may put one or two in my battle conclave so I can do something about transports and walkers.

Dunno Pretre.. relic blade captains aren't even that good, when there are units/special characters that are far better beatsticks. At most, the captain can augment an assault/terminator squad adding some more wounds and extra attacks. That and grant command squads for special weapon fun.

Also, captains can only specifically take power swords.. hoping this gets errata'd to any power weapon.. if not, then the relic blade retains its value.

Also.. I'm not looking forward to necron lychguard. They were a pain before, but now they get +1 strength and have their meagre I2 reduced by 1 as a pay-off?

JbR of the Endless Spire wrote:

DPBellathrom wrote:this his to be the most stupid rule for 6th ed I've seen so far -.-

my slaanesh termies have power whips.......what the hell am I supposed to do now :/

all my deathguard champs have scyths....again......what do I count these as?

serioulsy......who ever thought this was a good idea for a rule?

I believe these rules may come from Matt Ward, I'm not bashing the guy I just think it comes from him being as he is the biggest 2nd Ed fan on the development and design team. Back then standard space marines came under an 'Ultramarine codex' a lot like the current codex being 'Ultramarines and friends' which makes me think a lot of inspiration is taken from 2nd Ed...

Really now, are you people going to chalk everything up to him? Seriously? Do I need a water bottle to spritz you folk as soon as you come out with theories like this?

JbR of the Endless Spire wrote:I believe these rules may come from Matt Ward, I'm not bashing the guy I just think it comes from him being as he is the biggest 2nd Ed fan on the development and design team. Back then standard space marines came under an 'Ultramarine codex' a lot like the current codex being 'Ultramarines and friends' which makes me think a lot of inspiration is taken from 2nd Ed...

Except, as proven previously, the newest C:SM has the least percentage of Ultramarine pages and least percentage of UM characters to all the previous editions, including C: Ultramarines, iirc.


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Darkvoidof40k wrote:

pretre wrote:Relic blade will definitely still have a place. AP3 is a big deal. I think it will be good in squads where there are a mix of power weapons for some transport power.

For example, I may put one or two in my battle conclave so I can do something about transports and walkers.

Dunno Pretre.. relic blade captains aren't even that good, when there are units/special characters that are far better beatsticks. At most, the captain can augment an assault/terminator squad adding some more wounds and extra attacks. That and grant command squads for special weapon fun.

Also, captains can only specifically take power swords.. hoping this gets errata'd to any power weapon.. if not, then the relic blade retains its value.

Also.. I'm not looking forward to necron lychguard. They were a pain before, but now they get +1 strength and have their meagre I2 reduced by 1 as a pay-off?

Relic Blades generally only see use on Vulkan and Bike Captains, but yeah.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:A friend explained/confirmed rumours for me the other day because he went down to a GW and you can see the rulebook there. Might be how he's done it here, unless the pre-orders do get it early or something.

was at my local GW posting with my phone...

pretre wrote:

DPBellathrom wrote:this his to be the most stupid rule for 6th ed I've seen so far -.-

my slaanesh termies have power whips.......what the hell am I supposed to do now :/

all my deathguard champs have scyths....again......what do I count these as?

serioulsy......who ever thought this was a good idea for a rule?

Again, weapons that don't fall into Axe/Maul/Sword fall under Sword. So your whips and scythes? Swords. Unless you want to 'Counts As' them.

Deep breaths.

so my whips count as swords......yay for logic :3 but really I cant see why these rules were necessary in the first place. and also, an axe makes you I1 :? I thought the rule for this sort of thing was and axe swingsslower than a sword and a maul swings slower than an axe. -1I would have been better.....and AP4 for a maul is just wrong